Gary O'Neil - tactics

[theweave]

Funny, but I think one of his weaknesses is that he doesn't do that! Villa an example of what we've seen in most matches. Early on, we have a lot of possession, but when they broke, they found tons of space behind us. (eg that disallowed goal).

This happens almost every match. We have some decent possession. Then opponents get the ball and stroll past us. It invariably requires some sort of rethink around 20 - 30 mins in, lots of frantic notes being passed around and iPad pointing.

Coventry found plenty of space against us, from start to finish, also requiring a fake stoppage early on to try and prevent it.

Emery said villa had trouble with Semedo and Sarabia first half. This was due to the way Gary had set us up tactically. He's limited with the changes he can make at the moment due to the players available

 

[Adrian_Monk]

I don't see a great deal of pressing from us. There has been some games where we've been set up to press on specific trigger points, such as player x having possession, but I don't think it's been especially characteristic about our play. We're generally a quite defensive team with deep, well-organised structures out of possession and co-ordinated counter attacks at speed and in numbers. We have players following the ball when we break much more than in previous seasons where we've relied on individual brilliance rather than an overload, which was fine under Nuno where we actually had some individuals capable of brilliance, but less successful when teams worked us out.

What has impressed me this season is the micro-tactical approach O'Neil has managed to successfully implement to capitalise on specific vulnerabilities. We've also had to adapt our macro-tactical approach to cause teams problems without Hwang, then without Neto, then without Cunha, and now without any of them, and we're still fairly competitive. What's even better, is that he has got the players on board with these specific details and they've carried out the instructions to a tee. That's probably the most difficult things in developing tactics - understanding the capabilities and limitations of the players, giving them structures that don't expose them if they get it wrong, and giving them the confidence that they're capable of winning games by combining following instructions with individual skill.

What impressed me less is kinda what I expected from O'Neil. He seems, like most young coaches nowadays, a bit more reliant on technology and analysts to confirm shifts in play than having the 'shadowboxing' experience of an older head who is a bit more intuitive over what might happen next, and as such, rather than taking the initiative to force a change, he tends to wait until it happens. That has come back to bite us a few times, but to O'Neil's credit he seems sufficiently self-critical that he won't let it define him and will learn from it with experience.

 

[gullykular]

Where GoN is really good as a man manager and motivator he's really poor as a tactician.

I just don't think he's a tactical manager, he's more an Ancelotti/ Redknapp type than a Klopp/ Pep type. Not a bad thing but it is at odds with the transfer policy Fosun have at the moment.

I have no doubt he will be a good manager at a top club with top players but he'll always be short of top 10 tactically.

He needs players like Cunha and Neto to be successful and will get the very best out of them in a team but not system sense

But when faced with putting a tactical system in place I don't think he's capable, just not his game

We are where we are but unless Fosun change their direction or GoN suddenly learns how to implement a tactical system on and off the ball in place then this is probably his ceiling.

If this is your view then I don’t think you’ve been paying particular attention this season. The way he’s found solutions in lieu of all 3 of our best forwards at various points this season is something no Wolves manager in the recent past would have achieved, I’ve no doubt about that

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Emery said villa had trouble with Semedo and Sarabia first half. This was due to the way Gary had set us up tactically. He's limited with the changes he can make at the moment due to the players available

Yes, I feel Semedo has really shone as teams have seen our main danger as being down our left and given him more space. RAN (miss aside) was less of a threat as he was less able to get forward with Toti often going off to deal with Diaby, who was their trickiest player positionally. To be honest watching from the stands and being involved in the game it's hard to see all this stuff, which is why I rely more on people who are looking specifically at the tactics and seeing it several times as @gullykular does.

It's all *******s when you haven't got anyone to stick the ball in the net though!

 

[Rubberball]

If this is your view then I don’t think you’ve been paying particular attention this season. The way he’s found solutions in lieu of all 3 of our best forwards at various points this season is something no Wolves manager in the recent past would have achieved, I’ve no doubt about that

I've read your posts on lots of things tactically and almost every one has been bizarre to me.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I honestly don't know what you watch but do find them interesting to read and quite often don't know how you've come to the conclusion you do.

They fascinate me and I'd be very interested to have a conversation to see how you get to where you do.

But again each to their own.

 

[brianm]

I've read your posts on lots of things tactically and almost every one has been bizarre to me.

I honestly don't know what you watch but do find them interesting to read and quite often don't know how you've come to the conclusion you do.

But again each to their own.

Truly: I have no idea what you are watching. None whatsoever. Gary O'Neil as tactically poor is about as baffling a take as I have seen.

 

[Matt]

Interestingly, I saw a table the other day that had us 4th bottom from xP (expected points). I know people love/hate stats like this but it shocked me to be honest and made me think maybe we haven’t been quite as good as I thought we had.

EPL xG Table and Scorers for the 2023/2024 season | Understat.com

xG table of EPL standings and top scorers for the 2023/2024 season, also tables from past seasons and other European football leagues.

understat.com

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

My take on “GON tactics debate” is really simple. It is only ever a debate when we lose a game. Some fans are desperate for answers after a loss, but don’t ask the question when we win. Of course he has technical ability (I’m baffled completely at those that don’t think he has). All you have to look at is what he’s achieved with the squad he has to see that, or what the professional pundits and his peers have to say.

Tactically he got Saturday right, we battered villa early on and he’s not to blame that RAN missed an absolute sitter. Once we’re chasing the game he could have been PEP/Klopp/Fergie rolled into one, with the players he has available against the team at home who have dropped the least amount of points in the division from winning positions then you’re on toast and done. That unfortunately is football.

 

[JonahWolf]

I don't see an implementation of a system off the ball and playing players in positions in his attacking system (which is very rigid) that do not work is the main things I can see.

There are little things like not using Sarabia correctly until Spurs because of tactical inflexibility (he wanted pace on the wing at all costs and said as much). His daft decision to put RAN at LB against Coventry when it was easier to put him up front and Bueno at LB.

I don't think he's at the same level tactically as some at this level and Robins easily out thought him. That's just who he is.

Ok, but you’re basing this on when he has nothing to work with.
We have 1 senior forward available, that happens to be the physically weakest and slowest of them.
Sarabia isn’t going to dart in behind, or shrug off a challenge.

If you take a rather longer view, GON set his stall out early as a very analysis-tactics based coach.
When he prepared for the opposition, who then did what was expected, it was usually a good performance. (Examples Villa and Citeh at home). But he then lacked the experience to be able to change things appropriately when the opposition started in an unexpected manner, or made a number of tactical tweaks which wrested the game away from us (Liverpool home being the obvious example). Shocker, a world class manager with vastly superior resources managed to out-do our rookie with a limited squad.

It’s the modern breed of coaches, you’re not going to get Harry Redknapp types coming through anymore, they’ve all done the same courses and badges. The surprise packages and eventual success stories will be those that can motivate/communicate and make players believe in them despite their relative inexperience.
Gary seems to do well on that count too.

 

[gullykular]

I've read your posts on lots of things tactically and almost every one has been bizarre to me.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I honestly don't know what you watch but do find them interesting to read and quite often don't know how you've come to the conclusion you do.

They fascinate me and I'd be very interested to have a conversation to see how you get to where you do.

But again each to their own.

I’d like to think there is a rhyme and reason to everything I post - I don’t post, share tweets or record videos without watching games twice over, poring over analytics, graphics etc.

More than happy to spend the time explaining myself if you can question exactly what it is you’re finding so confusing.

 

[Rubberball]

Ok, but you’re basing this on when he has nothing to work with.
We have 1 senior forward available, that happens to be the physically weakest and slowest of them.
Sarabia isn’t going to dart in behind, or shrug off a challenge.

If you take a rather longer view, GON set his stall out early as a very analysis-tactics based coach.
When he prepared for the opposition, who then did what was expected, it was usually a good performance. (Examples Villa and Citeh at home). But he then lacked the experience to be able to change things appropriately when the opposition started in an unexpected manner, or made a number of tactical tweaks which wrested the game away from us (Liverpool home being the obvious example). Shocker, a world class manager with vastly superior resources managed to out-do our rookie with a limited squad.

It’s the modern breed of coaches, you’re not going to get Harry Redknapp types coming through anymore, they’ve all done the same courses and badges. The surprise packages and eventual success stories will be those that can motivate/communicate and make players believe in them despite their relative inexperience.
Gary seems to do well on that count too.

I really wasn't looking at it with just the last few games in mind but his work across the whole season.

Let's not forget for the first 6 games we were appalling, worse than any under Lage. Burchnall was bought in and we changed tactics almost instantly.

I think he is a Harry Redknapp type but he's a really good individual coach too, improving players on the pitch more than any since Nuno's early years

I just don't see his tactics coming through but I do see his excellent man management.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Awful tonight against a terrible burnley side

Bottled it

Why do we slow play down so much? It makes zero tactical sense

 

[woop woop barmy army]

Got it wrong tonight. With Nelson playing nearly as 3rd centre back. Cost us the first goal. Also missed him carrying the ball forward.

Think Traore would have been suited tonight also.

Looked a lot better last 10 with cunha and being able to hold the ball up.

Hands have been tired a lot lately

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

Over complicating things

 

[stevev53]

Got it wrong tonight. With Nelson playing nearly as 3rd centre back. Cost us the first goal. Also missed him carrying the ball forward.

Think Traore would have been suited tonight also.

Looked a lot better last 10 with cunha and being able to hold the ball up.

Hands have been tired a lot lately

Thanks mr hindsight

 

[BCWolf]

GON was just saving his best players for his cup final against Wet Spam ;-)

 

[Minimalist]

Struck me as an odd decision last night to make 3 separate subs in 15 mins. Meaning he couldn’t make anymore if there was a late injury, or god forbid , Cunha felt his hamstring. Surly it would have been sensible to have made a double sub, leaving himself the option of another if necessary.

 

[Jefe]

I sympathise with Gary tremendously over his deteriorating working conditions, but at the same time his tactics and selections have been a bit odd of late. Maybe he's feeling the pressure.

After the home game against Burnley, in which their press was far greater than our capacity to play around their press, leading to all sorts of problems for us - why would he instruct the players to do the same thing in the return leg and expect different results? A smart man once called that the definition of insanity.

As soon as I saw a defender lined up on each corner of the six yard box and another on the penalty spot for goal kicks, I thought, "here we go again". The amount of times we lost the ball in our defensive third was criminal - thankfully Burnley are carp and Sa was in inspired form last night.

 

[gullykular]

Awful tonight against a terrible burnley side

Bottled it

Why do we slow play down so much? It makes zero tactical sense

Two reasons:

1) Playing quick is generally to isolate your attackers 1v1. Fine with Cunha, Hwang, Neto. Less so with Sarabia and Chiwome.
2) Those ‘meaningless’ passes are designed to set the team up against transition. We all bemoaned the way we conceded vs West Ham and Newcastle (A). We have to guard against it because we know we won’t score many right now.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Two reasons:

1) Playing quick is generally to isolate your attackers 1v1. Fine with Cunha, Hwang, Neto. Less so with Sarabia and Chiwome.
2) Those ‘meaningless’ passes are designed to set the team up against transition. We all bemoaned the way we conceded vs West Ham and Newcastle (A). We have to guard against it because we know we won’t score many right now.

Nah he doesn’t know what he’s doing tactically, some folk on the internet said so. Forgot what his players, pundits and fellow managers in the game have said. He’s just a thin Mike Bassett

 

[wolfslair]

Lemina on the wing is as bizarre as Kenny Miller & Carl Cort on the flanks under Hoddle. Some kind of old school thinking by the gaffers here? Bellegarde just doesn’t have the rhythm in his play to be a winger he’s an explosive CM or CAM as they call them these days.

Board neglect saved us 6/9 points so really. It was the right thing even if our season ends on a sour note now. We couldn’t afford anyone in January which is disappointing

So basically, play JRB in the role we signed him as which is CM/CAM.

He was only there due to issues with the lack of depth……

I feel sorry for him in how his first season is panning out! I really hope he gets to play in his best role/position next season

 

[JadeWolf]

Two reasons:

1) Playing quick is generally to isolate your attackers 1v1. Fine with Cunha, Hwang, Neto. Less so with Sarabia and Chiwome.
2) Those ‘meaningless’ passes are designed to set the team up against transition. We all bemoaned the way we conceded vs West Ham and Newcastle (A). We have to guard against it because we know we won’t score many right now.

And also Burnley pressed quite high up. When we moved the ball about at the back it pulled them up then we had space in behind. The ball Kilman played to put Ait-Nouri through was the best example.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

So basically, play JRB in the role we signed him as which is CM/CAM.

He was only there due to issues with the lack of depth……

I feel sorry for him in how his first season is panning out! I really hope he gets to play in his best role/position next season

Hopefully. I wonder if he will change the formation and dynamic of the team in pre season

 

[JadeWolf]

Hopefully. I wonder if he will change the formation and dynamic of the team in pre season

Another reason to be optimistic, Gary had no pre-season really, give him a couple of weeks of double sessions at a training camp and we’ll be a much better side I think.

 

[wolfslair]

Hopefully. I wonder if he will change the formation and dynamic of the team in pre season

He started off there when GON wanted to play four at the back and his game against Liverpool was top notch!

I think a pre-season, change of defensive personnel and we get the JRB we signed as he gets to play the floating CAM role where he doesn’t need to do much hard tackling but can do the pressing work, where he looked bloody good!

 

[wolfslair]

Another reason to be optimistic, Gary had no pre-season really, give him a couple of weeks of double sessions at a training camp and we’ll be a much better side I think.

Completely agree!!!

The job he has done with the constraints is top notch!

 

[SuperGran]

Another reason to be optimistic, Gary had no pre-season really, give him a couple of weeks of double sessions at a training camp and we’ll be a much better side I think.

Really looking forward to that even in the winter break we didn’t really have that due to the Brentford replay

 

[gullykular]

And also Burnley pressed quite high up. When we moved the ball about at the back it pulled them up then we had space in behind. The ball Kilman played to put Ait-Nouri through was the best example.

Exactly. Esteve, the LCB followed RAN to the letter which created that space, they were strictly man to man most of the game

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Hopefully. I wonder if he will change the formation and dynamic of the team in pre season

The thing with the 'dynamic' for me is that you can't play a high intensity game with a small squad. Lopetegui would replace the players putting in the big shifts after 60-70 minutes to both maintain the intensity and protect them from injury. In some cases to inject pace when the defence was tiring. We just don't have the options now, flogging Lemina, Gomes, Sarabia to death and having to play accordingly.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

The thing with the 'dynamic' for me is that you can't play a high intensity game with a small squad. Lopetegui would replace the players putting in the big shifts after 60-70 minutes to both maintain the intensity and protect them from injury. In some cases to inject pace when the defence was tiring. We just don't have the options now, flogging Lemina, Gomes, Sarabia to death and having to play accordingly.

High intensity gets results but as you say need squad depth

 

[SuperGran]

What a player he’s turning ait-nouri into.

 

[lets all have a disco]

What a player he’s turning ait-nouri into.

That's the most important thing for me this season...We've definitely got 5.6.7 player we all love watching play....Christ we are even singing Semedo name....that's a great base to build from even if we lose 1 or 2........

Alright due to depth n finances we might come up a bit short , but that will probably always be the case...but at my least we are seeing a team that is giving it's all to do well.....

Some just seem adamant at turning it all into a negative when in reality it's anything but.....not perfect yes but very good.....

 

[JadeWolf]

What a player he’s turning ait-nouri into.

We’ll never fully know the reasons why but it’s unbelievable that Lopetegui wanted him gone.

 

[Wonder Boyo]

We’ll never fully know the reasons why but it’s unbelievable that Lopetegui wanted him gone.

Not only wanted him gone, but wanted to replace him with Aaron Cresswell!

 

[Minimalist]

We’ll never fully know the reasons why but it’s unbelievable that Lopetegui wanted him gone.

I think it was part of the misguided desire to play a back 4.
RAN is absolutely made for the wingback role; but I suppose I can see why Lopetegui chose Toti to play LB in a 4.

 

[nomadwolf]

Cunha | 'I want to do everything I can to help the group'

Matheus Cunha is determined to make up for lost time in Wolves’ final eight matches of the season after the forward returned from injury in the closing...

www.wolves.co.uk

On his special connection with O’Neil

...“Honestly, I think my relationship with him is the best relationship I’ve had with a coach. It’s great to have this feeling with him, have this relationship, where we can be open with each other and I can call him whenever I want and tell him that I want to be played and help the team....

...
On having Europe in his sights

“If we could achieve Europe at the end of the season, for me, it would be my biggest goal with one team ever.

“In the other teams that I’ve played, we always had expectations – with Atletico, I wanted to win La Liga, but we were able to put the team in the Champions League, which is the expectation of the club, with Leipzig, we put the team in the Champions League, at Hertha, the expectations were to stay in the Bundesliga and we that did, but I feel with Wolves, no-one expected these kinds of things....

 

[Rubberball]

Two reasons:

1) Playing quick is generally to isolate your attackers 1v1. Fine with Cunha, Hwang, Neto. Less so with Sarabia and Chiwome.
2) Those ‘meaningless’ passes are designed to set the team up against transition. We all bemoaned the way we conceded vs West Ham and Newcastle (A). We have to guard against it because we know we won’t score many right now.

This is the type of stuff that makes me think how did you come up with that?

1) Playing quick isn't a thing. Playing at a higher passing tempo in your own third can get you up the pitch quicker, City and Arsenal do this. Liverpool play a higher tempo passing game in the final third as well to try and tease teams into making a mistake by pulling players out of position and exploiting the space with fresh runners and angled runs. All 3 teams use a change of pace to unsettle defenders. GoN had that with Cunha, Hwang, Neto as his front 3.

2) GoN tactics of playing slowly deeper is to do two things, firstly it means our 'set plays in possession' (not set pieces) can be recycled to see if the opposition have a tactical weakness and secondly to draw the opposition onto the ball carrier to then exploit the space they leave behind.

GoN's counter attacks are mainly done at pace this way and his style is running with the ball, like Klopp's teams in the gegenpress, rather than hitting long direct balls (a la Warnock).

We have shown this slow passing system does not work for us and I have no idea why he persists with it. We are far better on the front foot using the higher tempo passing to get up the pitch and control tempo that way, we have won a lot of games this way from October. Currently setting us up to try and not concede and play on the counter isn't working and he needs to stop it and trust his players to get a higher tempo again.

FWIW, I work with a Bournemouth fan and he said GoN did similar with them last season when they had injuries.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

This is the type of stuff that makes me think how did you come up with that?

1) Playing quick isn't a thing. Playing at a higher passing tempo in your own third can get you up the pitch quicker, City and Arsenal do this. Liverpool play a higher tempo passing game in the final third as well to try and tease teams into making a mistake by pulling players out of position and exploiting the space with fresh runners and angled runs. All 3 teams use a change of pace to unsettle defenders. GoN had that with Cunha, Hwang, Neto as his front 3.

2) GoN tactics of playing slowly deeper is to do two things, firstly it means our 'set plays in possession' (not set pieces) can be recycled to see if the opposition have a tactical weakness and secondly to draw the opposition onto the ball carrier to then exploit the space they leave behind.

GoN's counter attacks are mainly done at pace this way and his style is running with the ball, like Klopp's teams in the gegenpress, rather than hitting long direct balls (a la Warnock).

We have shown this slow passing system does not work for us and I have no idea why he persists with it. We are far better on the front foot using the higher tempo passing to get up the pitch and control tempo that way, we have won a lot of games this way from October. Currently setting us up to try and not concede and play on the counter isn't working and he needs to stop it and trust his players to get a higher tempo again.

FWIW, I work with a Bournemouth fan and he said GoN did similar with them last season when they had injuries.

It's all just a mess due to personnel for me.

However passing it round the back is a nightmare for us, combine players (especially Sa) who aren't that comfortable on the ball or their weaker foot, with the fact that even if we draw the opposition out (as with Burnley who pressed us like crazy) we have no threat of going long (or even just passing through them quickly) with no pace up top. So when we did get the chance to play it in behind them Sarabia and Chiwome just got exposed as being nowhere near quick enough.

 

[SuperGran]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777230143779733592

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777230143779733592

Thanks, it's an interesting read (only the bit about Hugo being a major source of crosses confused me). Always wonder (as with Nuno) whether what looks like a 'philosophy' is just making the best of what you have. If you're a middle ranking club with no #9 then you can't just go and buy one (or so it seems!) so you develop a 'flexible 3' to create problems. Sort of similar to having no pacy CH and converting Coady to play as a sweeper.