Fosun Looking For New Investors

[Kebab Warrior]

I don’t care about having a super stadium. I just want it to be bigger so we can get the next generation in cheap, a roof to keep the rain out on all stands and the ability to have a wee, get a beer without missing any of the game.
Bonus features would be a north bank bar equivalent in other stands and some form of hospitality ‘light’ where I can buy some pints, food in a decent environment without having to pay hundreds per match just for the privilege. I don’t think these are unreasonable requests.

 

[oldgoldheart]

They’ve dropped another £64m in to the club over the 2 years to the end of 2022/23 since writing off the £126m loans made in the first 4 years. They’re supposed to have put another £18m in so far this season too. That’s a funny way of showing they’ve lost interest.

People keep taking about them as though they’re skimming money off the profits being raked in when they’re actually piling money in to cover loses. They’ve put at least £208m in to the club in the nearly 8 years they’ve owned us, that’s on top of the purchase price and doesn’t include the various sponsorship income like sponsoring the training ground for £1m a year and other money coming in for ad space from their other companies.

We spent £211m on player acquisitions in 2022/23 alone, Fosun not being committed is the wrong take. Money having been wasted during recent years is a far more relevant criticism.

All of the above numbers are directly from the accounts so are black and white.

you make it sound like charitable giving. their initial investment and all subsequent monies are more than covered by valuation so they are comfortably up on the deal. the lack of interest is shown through a very thin leadership structure under J Shi, zero investment in the ground and a squad that has about 16 senior pros. they are walking a tightrope. i still stand by what i said - they should sell to someone who wants to, and has the funds to take the club forward.

 

[Starsky]

I don't want Fosun to have to keep pouring money in to cover their mistakes.

I'd rather they just ran the club well.

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

Well that is the net loan position for funds put in by Fosun, the player sales are seperate income in to the club.

But here’s a table of the player purchases, player sales and net funds into and out of Wolves from Fosun:

Year to	Purchases	Sales	Fosun
May-17	£32.5m	£2.9m	£27m (£27m loan in, none out, none offset)
May-18	£24.6m	£10.7m	£48m (£48m loan in, none out, none offset)
May-19	£111.0m	£21.1m	(£56m loan in, none out, none offset)
May-20	£118.4m	£14.9m	-£3.5m (£6m loan in, £2.5m out, £7m offset against sponsorship income etc)
May-21	£84.0m	£73.8m	-£127.5m (£0 in, none out, £126.5m loan written off, £1m sponsorship income etc)
May-22	£31.1m	£20.1m	£13.4m (£13.4m loan in, none out, none offset)
May-23	£211.6m	£51.8m	£51.2m (£51.2m in, none out, none offset)
Total	£613.2m	£195.3m	£64.6m loan owed at May-23

Of the funds in and out from Fosun:

£201.6m paid in to Wolves
-£2.5m paid out (seems to be one transaction, unclear if this was physically paid out from Wolves to Fosun or if it was offset against monies in / out from interrelated companies)
-£8.0m loans offset against sponsorship income of the training ground etc
-£126.5m loans written off
————
£64.6m owed at May-23

Thank mate. I’ve just had our accountants chasing me, any chance I can send you the statements and you can do them for us too

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

you make it sound like charitable giving. their initial investment and all subsequent monies are more than covered by valuation so they are comfortably up on the deal. the lack of interest is shown through a very thin leadership structure under J Shi, zero investment in the ground and a squad that has about 16 senior pros. they are walking a tightrope. i still stand by what i said - they should sell to someone who wants to, and has the funds to take the club forward.

Great, now who and where are they?

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

you make it sound like charitable giving. their initial investment and all subsequent monies are more than covered by valuation so they are comfortably up on the deal. the lack of interest is shown through a very thin leadership structure under J Shi, zero investment in the ground and a squad that has about 16 senior pros. they are walking a tightrope. i still stand by what i said - they should sell to someone who wants to, and has the funds to take the club forward.

Would they still be “walking a tightrope” if Saturdays game had been 94 minutes long and we beat Villa away? The overreaction from game to game is incredible.

 

[Chris H]

you make it sound like charitable giving. their initial investment and all subsequent monies are more than covered by valuation so they are comfortably up on the deal. the lack of interest is shown through a very thin leadership structure under J Shi, zero investment in the ground and a squad that has about 16 senior pros. they are walking a tightrope. i still stand by what i said - they should sell to someone who wants to, and has the funds to take the club forward.

It’s not charitable, they’re an investment company so of course they’ll be looking for a return and they currently own an asset worth what, £350m? They’ve spent £260m to get to this stage so I do agree to a point they need to decide if they want a return now because this is as much as it’ll be worth without kicking on again or they need to invest to move forwards.

Spending £20m to £40m a year of their own money to stand still isn’t particularly sound investment as it just eats in to their return but that’s what they appear to be doing which suggests they aren’t in it simply for the ROI.

We’ve had far worse owners than Fosun as have / currently do many other clubs. Of course we could get a sugar daddy to push us forward (although have much further can you push a club of our size is up for debate) we could also get an owner who grenades everything they’ve done to take us from Championship also rans to a team challenging for top half and European football on a few occasions like the Albion got with Lai.

We’ve arguably got the best structure behind the scenes we’ve had for a few years with Hobbs in place and Shi staying in his lane, let’s see what they do this summer after our reset and judge them on that, the next 12 to 18 months will be a good indication of their intentions.

 

[Chris H]

Thank mate. I’ve just had our accountants chasing me, any chance I can send you the statements and you can do them for us too

Well I am an accountant so!

All I’ll say is do him a favour and get your bloody records in!!

 

[oldgoldheart]

It’s not charitable, they’re an investment company so of course they’ll be looking for a return and they currently own an asset worth what, £350m? They’ve spent £260m to get to this stage so I do agree to a point they need to decide if they want a return now because this is as much as it’ll be worth without kicking on again or they need to invest to move forwards.

Spending £20m to £40m a year of their own money to stand still isn’t particularly sound investment as it just eats in to their return but that’s what they appear to be doing which suggests they aren’t in it simply for the ROI.

We’ve had far worse owners than Fosun as have / currently do many other clubs. Of course we could get a sugar daddy to push us forward (although have much further can you push a club of our size is up for debate) we could also get an owner who grenades everything they’ve done to take us from Championship also rans to a team challenging for top half and European football on a few occasions like the Albion got with Lai.

We’ve arguably got the best structure behind the scenes we’ve had for a few years with Hobbs in place and Shi staying in his lane, let’s see what they do this summer after our reset and judge them on that, the next 12 to 18 months will be a good indication of their intentions.

i agree about Hobbs. he is vitally important. beyond him i'm not sure. Shi is an authoritarian guy and the structure is quite flimsy in my view

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

Well I am an accountant so!

All I’ll say is do him a favour and get your bloody records in!!

Haha he told me they do a list at the beginning of the FY of who will be the latest filers and mine is always in there

 

[Chris H]

i agree about Hobbs. he is vitally important. beyond him i'm not sure. Shi is an authoritarian guy and the structure is quite flimsy in my view

I’m not overly warm on Shi either but then how many football club CEO’s are looked at favourably by fans. They have a duty of care to the club and their owners and he has developed us from a £30m bottom half championship side to a £350m PL mid table side who can have a good season where they challenge for Europe and a bad one where they flirt with relegation but haven’t actually finished below 13th.

My issue with our time under Fosun is the feast or famine approach to finances and transfers, my hope is they take a more measured and balanced approach which is what Hobbs has talked about recently.

I don’t mind mistakes being made as long as they are learnt from.

 

[Chris H]

Haha he told me they do a list at the beginning of the FY of who will be the latest filers and mine is always in there

We one of them, it’s called the:

Never
On-time
Businesses

list.

 

[WW1963]

It’s not charitable, they’re an investment company so of course they’ll be looking for a return and they currently own an asset worth what, £350m? They’ve spent £260m to get to this stage so I do agree to a point they need to decide if they want a return now because this is as much as it’ll be worth without kicking on again or they need to invest to move forwards.

Spending £20m to £40m a year of their own money to stand still isn’t particularly sound investment as it just eats in to their return but that’s what they appear to be doing which suggests they aren’t in it simply for the ROI.

We’ve had far worse owners than Fosun as have / currently do many other clubs. Of course we could get a sugar daddy to push us forward (although have much further can you push a club of our size is up for debate) we could also get an owner who grenades everything they’ve done to take us from Championship also rans to a team challenging for top half and European football on a few occasions like the Albion got with Lai.

We’ve arguably got the best structure behind the scenes we’ve had for a few years with Hobbs in place and Shi staying in his lane, let’s see what they do this summer after our reset and judge them on that, the next 12 to 18 months will be a good indication of their intentions.

Hobbs went from some shadowy figure holidaying on the beaches of Colombia and Brazil to a vital kingpin at the club. Gary O'Neil went from being a mousey geography teacher who occasionally took games lessons whenever the real games teacher wasn't available to a realistically future England manager.

The point is, none of us have a clue and therefore are in no position to make a final judgement of Fosun. Of all the Chinese owners, they are undoubtedly light years ahead of others who have gone before them.

Blues have been lumbered twice, West Brom once (and potentially twice), Villa once. There's no doubt that Fosun have tried to make the club a force in the Premier league and there's no doubt that they are still trying to do so - within the constraints that other clubs are trampling upon.

Presently, they are the best owners we've had in my lifetime. I'd love to see success over the next 12 to 18 months and think that if anybody can bring that it will be with Fosun at the helm.

 

[Sergeant Hakeswill]

It makes him look like Data from Star Trek.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Hobbs went from some shadowy figure holidaying on the beaches of Colombia and Brazil to a vital kingpin at the club. Gary O'Neil went from being a mousey geography teacher who occasionally took games lessons whenever the real games teacher wasn't available to a realistically future England manager.

The point is, none of us have a clue and therefore are in no position to make a final judgement of Fosun. Of all the Chinese owners, they are undoubtedly light years ahead of others who have gone before them.

Blues have been lumbered twice, West Brom once (and potentially twice), Villa once. There's no doubt that Fosun have tried to make the club a force in the Premier league and there's no doubt that they are still trying to do so - within the constraints that other clubs are trampling upon.

Presently, they are the best owners we've had in my lifetime. I'd love to see success over the next 12 to 18 months and think that if anybody can bring that it will be with Fosun at the helm.

Good post.
Now that we have the mess of the Covid, Lage and JL era behind us and also moved a lot of older players on, perhaps we are at the start of a new phase and let’s see where that brings us.
A new transfer window, 6 years PL experience for Jeff/Fosun, and Hobbs bringing his expertise to the organization………it could be a lot worse.
A bonus is that Gary too has a full PL season behind him too.

One possible problem is China’s massive domestic financial/political mess and it shows no signs of stabilizing anytime soon. Fingers crossed it won’t overly impact Fosun .

 

[GV Wolf]

Would they still be “walking a tightrope” if Saturdays game had been 94 minutes long and we beat Villa away? The overreaction from game to game is incredible.

Yep, I know in advance these days which threads on this forum will come to the fore if wolves lose.

 

[Asthmatic Wolf]

We one of them, it’s called the:

Never
On-time
Businesses

list.

A few people must have one of these lists because I’ve been called it many times

 

[Rabid Wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1770015032669078000

Interesting to see if Fosun are 1 of them.

 

[hollo]

Good post.
Now that we have the mess of the Covid, Lage and JL era behind us and also moved a lot of older players on, perhaps we are at the start of a new phase and let’s see where that brings us.
A new transfer window, 6 years PL experience for Jeff/Fosun, and Hobbs bringing his expertise to the organization………it could be a lot worse.
A bonus is that Gary too has a full PL season behind him too.

One possible problem is China’s massive domestic financial/political mess and it shows no signs of stabilizing anytime soon. Fingers crossed it won’t overly impact Fosun .

Fosun are divesting. Doubt they they are still interested.

 

[wolvesjoe]

It’s not charitable, they’re an investment company so of course they’ll be looking for a return and they currently own an asset worth what, £350m? They’ve spent £260m to get to this stage so I do agree to a point they need to decide if they want a return now because this is as much as it’ll be worth without kicking on again or they need to invest to move forwards.

Spending £20m to £40m a year of their own money to stand still isn’t particularly sound investment as it just eats in to their return but that’s what they appear to be doing which suggests they aren’t in it simply for the ROI.Th

We’ve had far worse owners than Fosun as have / currently do many other clubs. Of course we could get a sugar daddy to push us forward (although have much further can you push a club of our size is up for debate) we could also get an owner who grenades everything they’ve done to take us from Championship also rans to a team challenging for top half and European football on a few occasions like the Albion got with Lai.

We’ve arguably got the best structure behind the scenes we’ve had for a few years with Hobbs in place and Shi staying in his lane, let’s see what they do this summer after our reset and judge them on that, the next 12 to 18 months will be a good indication of their intentions.

Thats a very good review of the underlying financials.

Fosun have gone as far as they can and still have significant surplus in the overall valuation of the club.

They have pretty much used all the allowable losses available to strengthen the team. They will be reticent
to go on doing that as the value of the club will not support that further investment over the next 3-5 years.

That is even before the question of stadium investment is approached. EVen though that is the one consistent way
to increase turnover, by around 15% when everything is calculated, FOSUN appear to be unprepared to make that
kind of investment, no matter how desperately it is needed.

To summarise: crunchtime ahead for Fosun. Either invest in a properly longterm way, get new investors or sellup and
recoup your investment that way. They are reaching the end of the road for the model they have used for the last eight
years.

My hunch is that FOSUN will invest either via themselves or by partnering up. Wolves are a high profile asset for them, even if
the turnover isnt that great in the scheme of things, and Wolves will probably never make money for them. But Wolves
put Fosun on the map as the Premier remains this bizarrely popular global attraction. If they fail, or just walk away, it
will only add to their decline.

At least they are intelligent owners, and the club is relatively well-run. I hope they make the right choices, even after this terrible January.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Fosun are divesting. Doubt they they are still interested.

Not sure why you doubt.

 

[Ginger Chimp]

The overreaction from game to game is incredible.

... completely and utterly predictable.

Fixed it.

 

[derbyrameater]

I wonder how many non Wolves football fans know about Fosun ?

 

[Pengwern]

Fosun are here for the long haul and have invested loads so far. Eventually, they will improve the stadium and that will be good. They are patient and new investors will be chosen carefully - that is the Chinese way.

 

[Wolf316]

Fosun are here for the long haul and have invested loads so far. Eventually, they will improve the stadium and that will be good. They are patient and new investors will be chosen carefully - that is the Chinese way.

They will never improve the stadium it’s not cost effective. They can’t even pony up for a bit of paint to tart it up.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

They will never improve the stadium it’s not cost effective. They can’t even pony up for a bit of paint to tart it up.

Apparently there is something in the works about the stadium someone else posted on here

 

[Wigan Wolf]

Fosun are here for the long haul and have invested loads so far. Eventually, they will improve the stadium and that will be good. They are patient and new investors will be chosen carefully - that is the Chinese way.

Isn’t the Chinese way Level 42?

 

[Chris H]

They will never improve the stadium it’s not cost effective. They can’t even pony up for a bit of paint to tart it up.

Could be that they aren’t bothered about tarting it up because they know they plan to replace it. Why waste money on maintenance when you can save it towards funding a replacement.

Now where are those straws for me to grasps at!

 

[hollo]

I doubt this is intended as money to invest in the team. I think it more likely partner investment for the stadium improvements they talked about in one of the video chats just over a year ago. Not the 50k Molineux, but the modest enhancements to the Steve Bull, and the expansion of the South Bank, they described. People may remember they had a job posting not long after for someone to help them work business cases. If so, it would be good news if there is more interest now that investment seems to be flowing more readily into the city.

16 million on the Steve bull stand and 46 million on the south bank. This would give us 38, 000 capacity. Cost has probably risen since two years ago.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

16 million on the Steve bull stand and 46 million on the south bank. This would give us 38, 000 capacity. Cost has probably risen since two years ago.

Agreed on the costs comment. I’d hope they could get the capacity up and over 40k between those two projects should they ever happen. If the NE Quad is completed, and SE Quad built, the South Bank extended to the height of the North Bank, and the Steve Bull roof raised to match while the stand is refurbished, then I’d expect it to add at least 8k to capacity.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Agreed on the costs comment. I’d hope they could get the capacity up and over 40k between those two projects should they ever happen. If the NE Quad is completed, and SE Quad built, the South Bank extended to the height of the North Bank, and the Steve Bull roof raised to match while the stand is refurbished, then I’d expect it to add at least 8k to capacity.

You would hope if we are going to modernise the ground we can increase the capacity by more than 6k??? Currently at 32k I think for Molineux.

Steve bull stand surely they could make it bigger? Filling the corners?

If we could make it 42k including the south bank it would be worthwhile in terms of income

 

[Minimalist]

You would hope if we are going to modernise the ground we can increase the capacity by more than 6k??? Currently at 32k I think for Molineux.

Steve bull stand surely they could make it bigger? Filling the corners?

If we could make it 42k including the south bank it would be worthwhile in terms of income

The Steve Bull redeveloped would look much bigger and higher. But because it would be moved close to the pitch and have the curve taken out, plus bigger seats, it probably would barely have any extra capacity. Which is what makes doing it financially hard to justify!

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

The Steve Bull redeveloped would look much bigger and higher. But because it would be moved close to the pitch and have the curve taken out, plus bigger seats, it probably would barely have any extra capacity. Which is what makes doing it financially hard to justify!

Exactly I can see why they don’t really want to rush it. Would make sense to keep the curve and add more seats moving the stand further back and upper tier so the lower tier could be increased? More of a bowl curve ?

 

[Minimalist]

Exactly I can see why they don’t really want to rush it. Would make sense to keep the curve and add more seats moving the stand further back and upper tier so the lower tier could be increased? More of a bowl curve ?

Not for me; bringing it closer to the pitch is one of the major pluses to redevelopment.
Making it 3 tier with the wv1 bar restaurant bit coming round (as planned) then also having a row of boxes between tier 2 and 3 might make the stand financially more productive and justifiable…. If there is demand for those sort of tickets.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Not for me; bringing it closer to the pitch is one of the major pluses to redevelopment.
Making it 3 tier with the wv1 bar restaurant bit coming round (as planned) then also having a row of boxes between tier 2 and 3 might make the stand financially more productive and justifiable…. If there is demand for those sort of tickets.

Either vision seems a long way way off without additional investment at this moment

 

[WKFWolf]

Steve Bull stand cannot just have a refurb for me, it needs knocking the **** down. Swear it's a cursed stand since it was built

 

[Sussex Wolf]

You would hope if we are going to modernise the ground we can increase the capacity by more than 6k??? Currently at 32k I think for Molineux.

Steve bull stand surely they could make it bigger? Filling the corners?

If we could make it 42k including the south bank it would be worthwhile in terms of income

This is more for the stadium thread, but just to close out my earlier comment.

In all the redevelopment proposals since SJH finished his work, it’s the corners which drive the largest increase in capacity. For corners of the size proposed by Morgan, we’re talking around 2.5k for each fully completed corner, assuming no space left for vehicle access to the pitch. Since we already have half of one built in scheme being talked about, finishing that one (leaving vehicle access) and adding another would add around 3.5k. It’s been talked about a larger single tier South Bank adding around 5k. So that’s a bit over 40k before considering changes to the Steve Bull.

My assumption from what they’ve said about a “cheap” refurb, is that the capacity will be unchanged but corporate significantly improved, and issues like access and concourses addressed. If they went further, built a new higher rear to support a new roof and extended the upper tier to the height of the North Bank, rebuilding and extending the lower tier forward, then maybe they could add a few thousand more. In total perhaps adding 10k to the current stadium capacity without touching the BW or the corners either side.

Invest around 80m over 3-4 years and generate an extra 15m in stadium related revenue (half in gate receipts, half in corporate and other matchday revenue), and the business case should stack up for a stadium investor.

 

[Bondi Wolf]

They will never improve the stadium it’s not cost effective. They can’t even pony up for a bit of paint to tart it up.

I agree. We have an investor as an owner. It's not a plaything like Abramovich with Chelsea.

There is no need to win, just to make money on the investment.

I love Fosun for what they have done, but there isn't a drive to win. It's business only.

I don't expect a lot of money to be spent in the summer. If we can finish 8th, then they have spent too much

 

[Minimalist]

Could be that they aren’t bothered about tarting it up because they know they plan to replace it. Why waste money on maintenance when you can save it towards funding a replacement.

Now where are those straws for me to grasps at!

I clutch at the same straw!
I also use the fact they didn’t go ahead with the second temporary bit in the SE corner to provide me with hope that something significant is somewhere in the pipeline….

 

[loppers86]

Fosun have invested massively into us and have transformed the club from yo-yo (at best) to top half premier league. We have some fantastic young players and one of the best up and coming managers.

We also got to the FAC 6th round and didn’t have a striker aged 20 or above and blew the chance to get some glory and have a great day out (the very reason the club exists) and make some more money (why Fosun exist).

This ridiculous situation isn’t the fault of Nathan Fraser or Leon Chiwome, Gary O’Neill or Matt Hobbs or Fosun.

This, like so many other shambles where we are clutching at straws and panicing falls squarely on the shoulders of Jeff Shi.

When all is said and done and we are back in League 2, managed by Joey Barton, Jeff’s legacy will be that despite all the investment resources and with some huge slices of luck (i know about Raul), he managed to leave us worse off than when he arrived.

The man is an absolute clown.