Fosun International. News and discussion on how business and/or geopolitical factors might potentially effect Wolves.

[MattH]

The club advertised the role of PA to the Executive Chairman on Friday.

Suggests that Jeff Shi doesn’t see himself going anywhere in the foreseeable future.

Nah, he just needs some admin help now he's also chief scout.

 

[old wittonian]

Nah, he just needs some admin help now he's also chief scout.

And maybe Ruddy's replacement.

 

[MattH]

I should also point out, that from an investment point of view, it makes little sense to sell Wolves. We aren't lumbering them with debt, and while we don't make them money directly from dividends etc, our value keeps increasing as the value of the Premier League broadcast rights increase. Also Fosun's investment in Gestifute definitely makes them money and owning Wolves is part of that.

Profitable businesses are sold all the time if the owners think their money is better invested elsewhere, or they need to raise cash. Both of those reasons could be relevant to Fosun at present.

 

[Mighty Thor]

The entire GLOBAL high yield bond new issue market has been closed all year pretty much. This is not exclusive to fosun although their issues are amplified by china and emerging market associated risk premiums need to refi subinvestment grade debt. Last few months have seen huge moves in yield curves as the struggles to price in rate hikes from central banks due to inflation.

Since the financial crisis emerging market companies and countries have been able to borrow vast sums at ridiculously cheap rates as central banks keep monetary policy loose. Ie it’s been a free Monday party. Well with double digit inflation and financial markets puking as hawkish central banks scramble to raise rates…..that party is over.

There will be casualties as the bond markets are essentially shut at the moment. BUT….this is not a issue exclusive to fosun this is all companies and private equity business etc that have maturity walls coming up over the next 6-18 months.

Debt will be much more expensive to refinance, bond investors will not allow such aggressive balance sheets and earnings will be in focus.

 

[inaglasshouse]

The entire GLOBAL high yield bond new issue market has been closed all year pretty much. This is not exclusive to fosun although their issues are amplified by china and emerging market associated risk premiums need to refi subinvestment grade debt. Last few months have seen huge moves in yield curves as the struggles to price in rate hikes from central banks due to inflation.

Since the financial crisis emerging market companies and countries have been able to borrow vast sums at ridiculously cheap rates as central banks keep monetary policy loose. Ie it’s been a free Monday party. Well with double digit inflation and financial markets puking as hawkish central banks scramble to raise rates…..that party is over.

There will be casualties as the bond markets are essentially shut at the moment. BUT….this is not a issue exclusive to fosun this is all companies and private equity business etc that have maturity walls coming up over the next 6-18 months.

Debt will be much more expensive to refinance, bond investors will not allow such aggressive balance sheets and earnings will be in focus.

That's easy for you to say

 

[Brixton Wanderer]

Would be absolutely fantastic news if we were sold

Fantastic if we were sold to who exactly?

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Really? It would be fantastic news if we ended up with some billionaire happy to spaff his fortune on the club. It wouldn't be so fantastic if we end up with the equivalent of Venky's or the Glazers.

Change of ownership is a huge risk.

Very well said. Huge gamble.

Fosun have been fantastic owners. Now they are decent - good owners. Better the devil you know etc...

One aside - isn't it depressing that by 'good owner' we just mean 'has lots of money and doesn't care about a return '

 

[sc91]

I've posted before that I'm close to someone who worked with a company that is in charge of a lot of Fosun's investments. We are no longer close, but I spoke to one of her old colleagues earlier this week.

It is his ardent belief - in an entirely off the record sense - that Wolves are quite openly up for sale Fosun have been brilliant for Wolves but football is a cruel game. If owners stop putting money in, things go downhill quickly. It's harsh, but true.

Anyway, I probably shouldn't be posting this, but I very rarely have little snippets of knowledge like this (aside from the Moutinho thing this week). He has no interest in football and is approaching it from a pure: "this is what my opinion is" sense, but from the way he explained it, hard to disagree.

I worked on due diligence for a potential new owner, the valuation wasnt met, but its not so much an open secret that Wolves are very much for sale.

 

[Darvo]

I hadn’t realised that Fosun’s finances were in such a state. Coupled with the deterioration of the UK - China political relationship, one thing is for sure, this is not good news for Wolves.

We could be in for a very quiet summer. Time to focus on what we do have.

The transfer thread could take a turn for the worse.

 

[sillytuna]

There's no way Wolves would be up for sale without it leaking to the press. Wouldn't worry too much about that. It probably does mean Fosun won't be investing much if anything into the club again any time soon, so the self sustaining policy is very much here to stay, and no chance the ground gets upgraded in any substantial way.

It's been known privately that we've been on sale for quite a while now. Not a desperate sale, an at the right price one.

 

[Deleted member (smith)]

Would be absolutely fantastic news if we were sold

For Fosun yes but for the fans I am less certain.

in 2022 the s & p index has fallen over 20 percent into bear market territory….this has had a wealth effect on many companies and individuals who are now a lot more defensive about investment…the Ukraine war has led to supply shortages and inflation and fear of global recession….Football is not immune …values are beginning to fall and things are very uncertain.

you can be certain that Fosun have important worries about their debt and will not be injecting any more money into wolves…..it’s very uncertain as to who would want to buy a football club now .

financial markets can move rapidly….those who talk about Fosun breaking their promises and plans made some years ago before the pandemic, before the Ukraine war and before the new cold war with China and Russia are obviously naive. As John Maynard Keynes said “when the facts change I change my opinion…what do you do?” Seems some here simply think Jeff shi is a dishonest liar because he didn’t see this coming.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

I worked on due diligence for a potential new owner, the valuation wasnt met, but its not so much an open secret that Wolves are very much for sale.

Interesting. Makes sense

 

[sc91]

Interesting. Makes sense

If it helped, the owner should they have succeeded would have gone down like a lead balloon .

 

[optimuswolf]

It can have a chance, but if it becomes all things Chinese as opposed to the impact at Wolves, it gets moved.
Its also worth pointing out that it would still be available for discussion, its just that you'd need to go to a different forum section. And if that small amount of effort is too much...

Many MM members aren't here hourse every day and would never find these threads if not on the main forum.

Discussing the ownership situation is pretty integral to the clubs future.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

I have said several times on here that Fosun are looking to sell. But that is easier said than done. Initially the hope was they could get a major investor to take the strain but they have been dangling that carrot for two-three years now with no bites.

 

[wwbug]

I know that running down contracts , selling players and not buying players is the best possible preparation for a sale .

 

[Darvo]

I worked on due diligence for a potential new owner, the valuation wasnt met, but its not so much an open secret that Wolves are very much for sale.

Why would you do due diligence when the valuation hasn’t been met?

 

[Shergar]

The club advertised the role of PA to the Executive Chairman on Friday.

Suggests that Jeff Shi doesn’t see himself going anywhere in the foreseeable future.

That role is already filled by Scott Sellars.

 

[Shergar]

China - Russia. Europe -Ukraine.
Fosun won’t be seen living the life in Europe whilst the above courtships continue.

 

[Monketron]

I worked on due diligence for a potential new owner, the valuation wasnt met, but its not so much an open secret that Wolves are very much for sale.

It's been known privately that we've been on sale for quite a while now. Not a desperate sale, an at the right price one.

I have said several times on here that Fosun are looking to sell. But that is easier said than done. Initially the hope was they could get a major investor to take the strain but they have been dangling that carrot for two-three years now with no bites.

Well this is a depressing way to end the weekend. The chances of some mega rich State-owned investment fund, or bored Billionaire buying us are practically zero. Chances are we'd be taken over by someone looking to make a nice tidy profit or worse someone who leverages the debt onto the club to finance the takeover.

What would realistically be the best outcome for Wolves fans? maybe a US sports consortium wanting to add us to their portfolio of US teams? even that is remote.

"Wolverhampton Red Bulls" anyone?

Bleh.

 

[T-dot-wolves]

Affect

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Best outcome for Wolves fans would be for us to be better on the pitch so we look attractive to investors/buyers. The last two years in particular playing dull insipid football has done us no favours at all.

 

[sc91]

Why would you do due diligence when the valuation hasn’t been met?

Moving goals posts is the way I can describe it.

 

[Ginger Chimp]

This was the article I was referring to before being told off by ginger monkey or something

I was showing you where to find the link.

 

[Wednesbury Wolf]

Best outcome for Wolves fans would be for us to be better on the pitch so we look attractive to investors/buyers. The last two years in particular playing dull insipid football has done us no favours at all.

The same problem would exist in that the players we have can't do that so we need ones that can and that ain't happening.

 

[Zico]

It can have a chance, but if it becomes all things Chinese as opposed to the impact at Wolves, it gets moved.
Its also worth pointing out that it would still be available for discussion, its just that you'd need to go to a different forum section. And if that small amount of effort is too much...

Many of us choose not to be on the politics forum, and this is of prime importance to the club.

I have come round to the view that Fosun are no longer interested in investing in the playing side of the business. I would be content to see them sell us. Events this year have highlighted the risks of ownership by such regimes. If selling us led to short term pain then so be it. I think we're heading for struggles anyway.

 

[WickedWolfie]

It can have a chance, but if it becomes all things Chinese as opposed to the impact at Wolves, it gets moved.
Its also worth pointing out that it would still be available for discussion, its just that you'd need to go to a different forum section. And if that small amount of effort is too much...

The OT forum would be fine, the politics thread though...

 

[SmiffyWolf]

I think this thread is relevant as it affects the club doesn't it. Or the stadium one moving and then season ticket prices one etc.

 

[Rhyl Wolf]

This is all outside my depth of knowledge. What kind of ball-park figure would Fosun be seeking?

 

[CologneWolf]

This is all outside my depth of knowledge. What kind of ball-park figure would Fosun be seeking?

 

[Sussex Wolf]

This is all outside my depth of knowledge. What kind of ball-park figure would Fosun be seeking?

My guess would be 350-400 million but that’s just a guess.

 

[Mutchy]

Many of us choose not to be on the politics forum, and this is of prime importance to the club.

To be fair though, thats your choice. It doesn't mean something should be where you do choose to be.

 

[Rabid Wolf]

Leonid Fedun - Wikipedia

In July 2021, Fedun offered £400 million to purchase Premier League club Wolverhampton Wanderers, which was rejected

Wonder if there was any truth in this. Regardless we dodged a bullet with this one.

 

[MattH]

I worked on due diligence for a potential new owner, the valuation wasnt met, but its not so much an open secret that Wolves are very much for sale.

Interesting...obviously you can't say too much, but was it a business or a rich individual?

 

[Wolf316]

Leonid Fedun - Wikipedia


Wonder if there was any truth in this. Regardless we dodged a bullet with this one.

I think they’d have took that.

 

[Zico]

To be fair though, thats your choice. It doesn't mean something should be where you do choose to be.

No I understand that. It was just your comment about it being a "small effort", whereas getting drawn into that part of the forum wouldn't be wise for me! But take your point if this drifts away from Wolves.

 

[Bill McCai]

Danny Armstrong

@DannyWArmstrong

Spartak Moscow owner Leonid Fedun says the rumour he tried to buy Premier League club Wolves for £400 million earlier this month is a 'fairytale', according to reports in Russia #WWFC #FCSM #Wolves

From last year.

 

[Rabid Wolf]

Danny Armstrong
@DannyWArmstrong

Spartak Moscow owner Leonid Fedun says the rumour he tried to buy Premier League club Wolves for £400 million earlier this month is a 'fairytale', according to reports in Russia #WWFC #FCSM #Wolves

From last year.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

My guess would be 350-400 million but that’s just a guess.

Similar to what Newcastle went for then in reality. Fosun have wanted partial investors though. So far we have peak6 or whoever

Interesting times ahead. Fosun clearly made stupid decisions regarding Thomas cook was it??

 

[wwbug]

This hasnt happened overnight. This has effected Fosun and its decisions for a few years IMO
Two important points for me . The nature of Wolves to Fosun and its Chairman.
And the importance of £350 million investment in regards to a 40 billion dollar debt .
Financially we are a bit like a gnat on an elephants bum .