Formation

[Bognor_Wolf]

Probably already been discussed on here but thought I'd start a thread to put it all in one place..

The big disappointment for me yesterday was how we lined up and has been concern for a bit now to be honest why at home when we need to really take the game to a team below us have we got THREE holding midfielders on the pitch just encourages us to drop deep! Also Lemina week by week is dropping deeper and deeper was playing behind the centre backs at times yesterday!
The first goal happens because our midfield is along side our centre backs when the cross comes in.

No coincidence when we actually had attacking players on the pitch second half we actually looked a threat! While Jimenez hasn't been great last couple of weeks again I can't help but think Cunha playing around him or just behind him will help him so much more (like we saw at Fulham).

For all the talk about us not scoring goals we really don't help ourselves by starting with the least attacking players from the start as possible and have half of them on the bench and bring them on when we are chasing a game because yeah you got it lack of attacking play from the start of the game....

4-2-3-1 from now on please Lopetegui not this 4-5-1 it clearly isn't working...

 

[JOSWolf]

Ive been begging for 4231 for weeks but instead we get thus awful looking formation with Lemina in defence and big gaps in central midfield and hardly any play through the middle.

 

[Matt]

I think the system(s) we try to play are often over complicated and I don’t think we have the personnel to implement them properly. We’d benefit from a bit of “back to basics” imo.

4231

Neves and Lemina holding (NOT dropping between centre backs)

Three of Cunha, Hwang, Neto, Sarabia, Adama, Podence behind Raul or Costa

 

[OLDGOLD]

Ive been begging for 4231 for weeks but instead we get thus awful looking formation with Lemina in defence and big gaps in central midfield and hardly any play through the middle.

And the irony is when Lemina actually plays in midfield he is actually decent moving forward with the ball.

 

[Dan G WWFC]

4222 like when we beat Liverpool. Press high up the pitch

Sa
Semedo Dawson Kilman Ran/Beuno
Neves Lemina
Adama Neto
Cunha Raul

 

[jonesy]

4–2-3-1 or 4-4-2

Simple no questions

He won’t….. he’s Nuno on weed!!! defensive and slow everywhere with 0 movement

3 ultra defensive players in midfield is not working leaves the forwards isolated alll the time and this high so called
Press is no where to be seen

As someone said above lemina is so deep he’s playing in a 3 at the back

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Has to be 4 attackers on the pitch. Especially since we don’t play the 3 midfielders in the middle

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

3-5-2

 

[TheConcourse]

How long have we been having the conversation now? The disconnect between midfield and attack is amateurish. It happens on Sunday mornings all over the country.

We’re essentially a back five with two holding midfielders, then question why we don’t convert the dangerous moments that we create.

I’d try:

Sa
Collins Dawson Kilman
Traore Neves Lemina RAN
Cunha Sarabia
Raul

Surely to ****ing god RAN and Traore can play on the halfway line and give us the width we need for Cunha and Sarabia to affect the game centrally??

 

[oldgolded]

4222 like when we beat Liverpool. Press high up the pitch

Sa
Semedo Dawson Kilman Ran/Beuno
Neves Lemina
Adama Neto
Cunha Raul

That's exactly what I would like to see.

 

[Arky_R]

4222 like when we beat Liverpool. Press high up the pitch

Sa
Semedo Dawson Kilman Ran/Beuno
Neves Lemina
Adama Neto
Cunha Raul

does Adama press though?

 

[sillytuna]

Please for the love of god can we switch to a front 2. Cunha and Raul please.

 

[steve vena]

I'd be tempted to go 3-5-2 from now on and try and be more compact for a bit.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I'd be tempted to go 3-5-2 from now on and try and be more compact for a bit.

I think we have to to be honest far too exposed with back 4 and limp midfield

 

[Andywolf74]

I don’t think the constant changing the line up and formations is helping. This seems to happen match to match, regardless of how we played in the previous match.
Would like to see Raul and Cunha given a run of matches to try and strike up an understanding. Raul hasn’t been the same since the injury but this has been exacerbated by him having no regular strike partner since Jota. Too often we get round the side of a team and the opposition mark the lone striker, relying on a pin point accurate cross or ball to the edge of the area, requiring a super strike from outside the box to trouble the keeper.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I don't think we have 3 'holding midfeilders'. We started with one CDM and two who are supposed to be box to box, Neves was regularly pressing yesterday.
So we started in a sort of 4141.

10 minutes before half time he tried Podence centrally and it became more of a 442 diamond midfield, but Neto still stayed quite wide.

At some point Lemina effectively dropped into the middle to make a 352 with Adama and Jonny as WBs. Then effectively a back 3 once Jonny went and we were chasing it.

It's hard to know how many formations we actually played in the second half!

The good thing is it's like Irish weather, don't moan if you don't like it, it'll soon change!

 

[VancouverWolf]

Julen Lopetigui, will you please read this thread and use their ideas?

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Happily see gomes in a 2 man midfield . Brilliant yesterday

 

[Darvo]

Does the formation make much difference with this group of players?

 

[JOSWolf]

And the irony is when Lemina actually plays in midfield he is actually decent moving forward with the ball.

He is. So why the heck is he suddenly playing this really deep role in the last few games? It looks wrong and leaves gaps in central midfield.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

He is. So why the heck is he suddenly playing this really deep role in the last few games? It looks wrong and leaves gaps in central midfield.

I don't understand this. He's been playing at the holding midfielder, where Neves used to play, but many (maybe including you?) said we should try to get Neves further forward, which is what's happened. The second half yesterday he just dropped back into 'the Coady Role', when we went to wingbacks.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Does the formation make much difference with this group of players?

Does the group of players make any difference to this group of players?

 

[manchesterwolf17]

Does the group of players make any difference to this group of players?

Beginning to wonder the same. I know it's a lower level, but watching Sheff Utd vs Blackburn earlier - It was night and day to watching us. The speed of play. Attacking through the middle and runners supporting the striker. We never do any of those things.

 

[Sedgers]

I hate to say it but we look clueless. I really don't enjoy watching us play as it's hard to understand the ethos of the side. Good teams need an identity but I can't make out ours at all.

 

[JOSWolf]

I don't understand this. He's been playing at the holding midfielder, where Neves used to play, but many (maybe including you?) said we should try to get Neves further forward, which is what's happened. The second half yesterday he just dropped back into 'the Coady Role', when we went to wingbacks.

Trouble is Neves is also there on occasions and it leaves a large gap in central midfield. Neither of them need to be so deep. I dont see many other teams adopting this tactic when I watch them.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Trouble is Neves is also there on occasions and it leaves a large gap in central midfield. Neither of them need to be so deep. I dont see many other teams adopting this tactic when I watch them.

It's a bit tricky with all the formation tweaks, but if you look at his heat map I'd say Neves played in the opposition half first half. Later on, when Lemina went into the back 3, he reverts to his defensive midfield role.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1640933/Live/England-Premier-League-2022-2023-Wolverhampton-Leeds

The thing is about Saturday at least, that we totally dominated the play, but missed good chances while conceding two of the worst goals we've let in all season (and one more very bad one, one controversial but still quite bad one). Individual errors killed us not formation.

Leeds team heat map is ridiculous btw, how you can score 4 goals from that is beyond me.

 

[jrpb-3]

I'd be tempted to go 3-5-2 from now on and try and be more compact for a bit.

Might be a good approach, but not sure its all down to formations, but also how we play in those formations. I think we've picked up more points under lopetegui with a slightly more defensive approach to games (solid at the back), than we have when we've been more attacking. No doubt we have been creating more chances with that style, but still not converting enough, and not sure thats going to change much in the short term regardless of who plays (most have had a chance so far )

Our overall defending hasn't been bad, but we've been prone to making a few gaffs each match and getting punished for them, with a slightly less expansive game we might protect the defense a bit more so they don't have to do quite as much defending therefore less chances for mistakes. We still need to be able to provide an attacking threat though, so it's a case of getting the balance right.

 

[Minimalist]

3-5-2

Ummm, whilst I think a front 2 would help massively, I feel our squad as a whole doesn’t as we’d need to leave out a few of our wide/inside forward types.

442 would be nice, if that’s too adventurous then the 343 would still suit our players.

Picking a formation and sticking to it might help too....

 

[wwbug]

Go get thee points . Don't ever play for the draw and one point.
Whatever formation puts us on the front foot.

 

[ombyman]

This may be controversial, but to me, all that JL has done is introduce the kamikaze passing around at the back, with the play in the other two thirds being similar to the previous managers.
So, some new players aside, we are now worse.

Passing at the back is hilarious in my opinion for most teams who arent Man City. 9 times out of 10 its pass until you are in a terrible position, often in own box and then launch it up field. An aimed long pass in the first instance could have achieved much more.
Also, I imagine that when we train for passing it around at the back it all looks rosy......because we have people like Podence doing the pressing in training!!!!

 

[Glow69]

This may be controversial, but to me, all that JL has done is introduce the kamikaze passing around at the back, with the play in the other two thirds being similar to the previous managers.
So, some new players aside, we are now worse.

Passing at the back is hilarious in my opinion for most teams who arent Man City. 9 times out of 10 its pass until you are in a terrible position, often in own box and then launch it up field. An aimed long pass in the first instance could have achieved much more.
Also, I imagine that when we train for passing it around at the back it all looks rosy......because we have people like Podence doing the pressing in training!!!!

Worse then what? Pre Julen? Kidding aint you lol.

Two weeks ago everything was rosey.

 

[BCWolf]

3-5-2, get the ball forward and play for the second ball.

If we're chasing the game then 3-4-3.

So long as our fullback options are Jonny and Semedo then a flat back 4 is insanity.

 

[yorkshire wolf 1973]

4-4-2 for me .
Bentley
Semedo - Collins - kilman - RAN/Bueno
Traore - neves - Lemina - neto
Cunha - Raul

I do not like 4-2-3-1 , I don’t think we have good enough players for that front 4 .

 

[Minimalist]

Lopetegui talking about needing to tighten up at the back, could be a hint at going back to a back 3/5....

As an alternative to that though what about a flat back 4.

Sa
Collins Dawson Killman Toti
Traore Neves Lemina Neto
Cunha Sarabia

​

RAN could play in the Neto position too. Jimenez an option in the front 2.
Just have Collins and Toti be defenders, not providing the attacking width.
Man City often use the likes of stones and ake as fullbacks. Semado, Jonny and RAN can all be weak defensively.

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

This may be controversial, but to me, all that JL has done is introduce the kamikaze passing around at the back, with the play in the other two thirds being similar to the previous managers.
So, some new players aside, we are now worse.

Passing at the back is hilarious in my opinion for most teams who arent Man City. 9 times out of 10 its pass until you are in a terrible position, often in own box and then launch it up field. An aimed long pass in the first instance could have achieved much more.
Also, I imagine that when we train for passing it around at the back it all looks rosy......because we have people like Podence doing the pressing in training!!!!

Agree entirely about the tactic. I know it's unfashionable to say so, but I have very rarely seen it work. Even Man City often bring pressure on themselves and allow poor teams to look good when deploying it. When you don't have the luxury of City's midfield and forward players to bail you out it is suicidal. It is continually referred to as "playing out from the back" , but in reality, when it doesn't result in conceding a goal, it usually ends up with a panicked hoof up front, or into touch, rather than anything constructive. It only seems to work in continental leagues because there is rarely anything like a serious press attempted in response to it. Having said all that It is not something that JL has introduced. We have been doing it, badly, for several years now, under three different managers and getting the same result from it.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Not convinced going to a back 5 helps tighten up Saturday. Maybe a bit more help for Semedo, but he's still too narrow and letting the winger run at him, we're still on our heels in the box, not looking for runners. Doesn't mean we can actually mark from a corner. Doesn't stop Jonny losing the ball 10 yards out. Let me repeat, it was all about individual errors, not formation.

 

[bod101]

Not convinced going to a back 5 helps tighten up Saturday. Maybe a bit more help for Semedo, but he's still too narrow and letting the winger run at him, we're still on our heels in the box, not looking for runners. Doesn't mean we can actually mark from a corner. Doesn't stop Jonny losing the ball 10 yards out. Let me repeat, it was all about individual errors, not formation.

all about overplaying it for me, instead of moving the ball straight away or quickly there always seems the need for an extra touch or pause, the same both ends of the pitch, it causes us to concede and miss opportunities. We need more one/two touch football ball always moving, players always moving

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

all about overplaying it for me, instead of moving the ball straight away or quickly there always seems the need for an extra touch or pause, the same both ends of the pitch, it causes us to concede and miss opportunities. We need more one/two touch football ball always moving, players always moving

I wouldn't disagree, but looking at the goals conceded to Leeds that's not the point. It's actually hard to know which is the worst, but a few games recently there have been huge gaps deep at corners and I think Leeds saw that for Ayling's goal. Noticed MOTD blamed Jonny,but I thought it was Gomes, either way we've ditched that zonal stuff people moaned about and gone back man to man, but individuals not doing their jobs.

 

[Krispy Kreme]

Happily see gomes in a 2 man midfield . Brilliant yesterday

Was rubbing his calves after about 75 minutes.

If Neves hadn't had a knock he would have come off.

Not fit for 90 minutes in the prem yet I don't think.

 

[Krispy Kreme]

Lopetegui talking about needing to tighten up at the back, could be a hint at going back to a back 3/5....

As an alternative to that though what about a flat back 4.

Sa
Collins Dawson Killman Toti
Traore Neves Lemina Neto
Cunha Sarabia

​

RAN could play in the Neto position too. Jimenez an option in the front 2.
Just have Collins and Toti be defenders, not providing the attacking width.
Man City often use the likes of stones and ake as fullbacks. Semado, Jonny and RAN can all be weak defensively.

Are you Tony Pulis?