Everton, surely a points deduction?

[JadeWolf]

This could actually be the season they go down. Another points deduction on the way and no wins in 13.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Spurs with 86 million loses for the year

Anyone wanna bet they never ever get a deduction at some stage in the future.

 

[Minimalist]

Spurs with 86 million loses for the year

Anyone wanna bet they never ever get a deduction at some stage in the future.

An £86m loss for a year doesn’t break any rules.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

An £86m loss for a year doesn’t break any rules.

Does if it keeps happening. Also 61 mill and 50 mill the two previous years and 677 million debt apparently

 

[WickedWolfie]

An £86m loss for a year doesn’t break any rules.

If a club made the same loss every year then.... But as a one-off....

 

[rincewind]

It's important to realise that a clubs accounting loss is not the same as the FFP/PSR loss. It obviously must affect the money available to the football team, and probably suggests a poorly run club, if your consistently posting £100 million losses but in itself it doesn't have to mean a points deduction is incoming. Spurs bring in a lot more than Everton or Leicester so can absorb higher losses for a while.

 

[hollo]

Spurs with 86 million loses for the year

Anyone wanna bet they never ever get a deduction at some stage in the future.

They have deductibles for depreciation of their new stadium apparently.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

According to 2022 Spurs

Over 90% of our financial borrowings of £852.6m, are at fixed rates, with an average interest rate of 2.81%

So that's the thick end of £30m a year in interest that (as it is on the ground) presumably doesn't count to PSR or UEFA FFP.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

According to 2022 Spurs

Over 90% of our financial borrowings of £852.6m, are at fixed rates, with an average interest rate of 2.81%

So that's the thick end of £30m a year in interest that (as it is on the ground) presumably doesn't count to PSR or UEFA FFP.

Can’t Fosun do the same would like a new spurs type ground and retail park with a train station lol

 

[WickedWolfie]

Can’t Fosun do the same would like a new spurs type ground and retail park with a train station lol

Would you like Spurs type pricing too?

 

[lobodelsur]

According to 2022 Spurs

Over 90% of our financial borrowings of £852.6m, are at fixed rates, with an average interest rate of 2.81%

So that's the thick end of £30m a year in interest that (as it is on the ground) presumably doesn't count to PSR or UEFA FFP.

Aren't we paying McQuarie something like 7% interest ?

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Would you like Spurs type pricing too?

More Korean fans no problem tourist club and north bank to fill.

If Molineux was 50k that’s more than enough. Pricing doesn’t affect the majority of legacy fans. The next generation is hurting though if they can’t get to games

Increase of 18k between the south bank and Steve Bull it could be done

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Would you like Spurs type pricing too?

No, but I wouldn't mind an on-site brewery.

 

[WickedWolfie]

No, but I wouldn't mind an on-site brewery.

Now that l agree with (albeit with sensible pricing).

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Aren't we paying McQuarie something like 7% interest ?

McQuarie. The *******s that own Southern and Thames Water. Helping to fleece UK homeowners.

 

[WickedWolfie]

McQuarie. The *******s that own Southern and Thames Water. Helping to fleece UK homeowners.

Not Thames Water any more. They offloaded in 2017 having loaded the company with debt, arguably massively underinvested for a decade, and taken out big dividends.... Oh and you might have a look at your utility meters.... At least one of mine says Property of Macquarie....

Affectionately (hahaha) known as the Vampire Squad...

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Aren't we paying McQuarie something like 7% interest ?

Very different type of loan. The Spurs loan is a long term commercial mortgage, the McQuarie one is a short term cash flow smoothing one. The Spurs lenders will get their 2.81% every year for many years to come. McQuarie get their 7% for one year only.

 

[Minimalist]

Does if it keeps happening. Also 61 mill and 50 mill the two previous years and 677 million debt apparently

If a club made the same loss every year then.... But as a one-off....

Yes but it’s not every year, I guess the Kane sale comes in the following year?
Some of the losses may be stadium related which don’t count.
Spurs are fine, a very well run club imo…

 

[WickedWolfie]

Yes but it’s not every year, I guess the Kane sale comes in the following year?
Some of the losses may be stadium related which don’t count.
Spurs are fine, a very well run club imo…

I agree albeit their fans' views about Levy make Jizz and Shi look like the most loved ever....

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

RULE change incoming before City & Chelsea face point deductions

EXCLUSIVE: Premier League eyeing ABOLISHING points deductions

EXCLUSIVE BY MIKE KEEGAN: Premier League clubs are considering abolishing points deductions and introducing a 'luxury tax', Mail Sport can reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In other words let the rich keep spending to protect their product of the EPL. The gulf in abilities of clubs will become enormous. Many fans to clubs like Wolves and other mid table outfits will lose interest

There has to be some regulations on spending to keep a level playing field. It’s a league 16 other clubs have no chance of winning as it is ??

 

[Sussex Wolf]

RULE change incoming before City & Chelsea face point deductions

EXCLUSIVE: Premier League eyeing ABOLISHING points deductions

EXCLUSIVE BY MIKE KEEGAN: Premier League clubs are considering abolishing points deductions and introducing a 'luxury tax', Mail Sport can reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In other words let the rich keep spending to protect their product of the EPL. The gulf in abilities of clubs will become enormous. Many fans to clubs like Wolves and other mid table outfits will lose interest

There has to be some regulations on spending to keep a level playing field. It’s a league 16 other clubs have no chance of winning as it is ??

Great, so all pretence that PSR was there to protect the integrity of the competition and stop clubs from putting themselves at risk is discarded. Worse, let’s put in rules which magnify the benefit of being a big successful club at the expense of the smaller, lower placed clubs. Then just for fun, let’s implement this just as some of those bigger or more wealthy clubs are feeling the pinch from existing rules, and a couple of them are waiting on sanctions for historic rule breaks…

We need the independent regulator now, and to come in and out an end to this self serving farce.

 

[glorybox]

This could actually be the season they go down. Another points deduction on the way and no wins in 13.

4 out the next 5 at home. Mostly winnable too.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Great, so all pretence that PSR was there to protect the integrity of the competition and stop clubs from putting themselves at risk is discarded. Worse, let’s put in rules which magnify the benefit of being a big successful club at the expense of the smaller, lower placed clubs. Then just for fun, let’s implement this just as some of those bigger or more wealthy clubs are feeling the pinch from existing rules, and a couple of them are waiting on sanctions for historic rule breaks…

We need the independent regulator now, and to come in and out an end to this self serving farce.

If this happens and isn’t clear corruption then I don’t know what is

 

[Ginger Chimp]

Ahhh. The Americanisation of our sport begins.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Ahhh. The Americanisation of our sport begins.

Good luck filling the grounds with yanks

 

[Skrilla]

Soft cap - that was my exact idea to redistribute taxes to the clubs that don’t breach a taxline, hopefully I’ll be due a cheque in the mail if it passes…

Still not sure it will work though. Removing FFP removes the safety blanket, what happens when the Oil Barons are bored of Newcastle after spending billions with zero restrictions leaving them with crippling debts?

It allows those who want to spend to spend, while the clubs who play fair receive a significant tax from each of the clubs that breach it.

Newcastle spend £1 billion with a 50% tax rate on anything over £100 million, £450 million split between the teams that don’t go above the tax line (let’s say 10 clubs), that would mean £45m each.

Might seem like a drop in the ocean, but when you factor in the “big six” doing similar, it would soon add up. Even so, if it gave clubs that played fair an extra £200m to spend it’s still nothing compared to what the top clubs will be spending.

Realistically though what does releasing the shackles actually do for the league. The big six will continue spending, and maybe a flurry of clubs will also spend exorbitant amounts to try to compete - namely Newcastle.

Does it actually benefit us in the long run? If anything it creates a less competitive league as the “big six” becomes however many other clubs want to spend billions to try to compete until their owners get bored and cut the cord.

Keep FFP but make it less restrictive, allow clubs to spend 100% of what they earn rather than 70%. It doesn’t solve the problem of the “big six” still having significantly more room to spend, but I’m not convinced a free-for-all would be any better to be honest.

 

[theweave]

Great, so all pretence that PSR was there to protect the integrity of the competition and stop clubs from putting themselves at risk is discarded. Worse, let’s put in rules which magnify the benefit of being a big successful club at the expense of the smaller, lower placed clubs. Then just for fun, let’s implement this just as some of those bigger or more wealthy clubs are feeling the pinch from existing rules, and a couple of them are waiting on sanctions for historic rule breaks…

We need the independent regulator now, and to come in and out an end to this self serving farce.

Yeah independent regulators do so well in other areas don't they, love paying these inflated energy prices whilst the companies profits soar

 

[lobodelsur]

Ahhh. The Americanisation of our sport begins.

It began a long time ago and its getting worse. But there doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement that American and British sports exist in different societal structures, (e.g. significance of college sports in the USA) . We just copy because if it worked over there it will surely work over here.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

RULE change incoming before City & Chelsea face point deductions

EXCLUSIVE: Premier League eyeing ABOLISHING points deductions

EXCLUSIVE BY MIKE KEEGAN: Premier League clubs are considering abolishing points deductions and introducing a 'luxury tax', Mail Sport can reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In other words let the rich keep spending to protect their product of the EPL. The gulf in abilities of clubs will become enormous. Many fans to clubs like Wolves and other mid table outfits will lose interest

There has to be some regulations on spending to keep a level playing field. It’s a league 16 other clubs have no chance of winning as it is ??

Well it needs 12 clubs to vote yes to it first so its not just the big 6 that have a say

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Well it needs 12 clubs to vote yes to it first so its not just the big 6 that have a say

Chelsea
Newcastle
Villa
Arsenal
Man Utd
Liverpool
Man City
Spurs
Palace
Bournemouth
Forest
Fulham/West Ham

More than enough. People question Palace and Bournemouth they have rich American owners. Sounds like this has been pre planned if anything. Sort of makes you think would the prem be better off without the super league clubs?

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Yeah independent regulators do so well in other areas don't they, love paying these inflated energy prices whilst the companies profits soar

This is not the forum to get into that debate, but that’s a poorly informed assessment of why energy prices have been high. More generally, regulators apply the rules and guidelines using the tools they are given. Give them poorly drafted rules, few resources and few powers, and you will get garbage regulation. Give a competent football regulator the right rules, and tools, and we will get decent regulation for the game.

 

[wolfslair]

This is not the forum to get into that debate, but that’s a poorly informed assessment of why energy prices have been high. More generally, regulators apply the rules and guidelines using the tools they are given. Give them poorly drafted rules, few resources and few powers, and you will get garbage regulation. Give a competent football regulator the right rules, and tools, and we will get decent regulation for the game.

Some of the issues with the FFP breaches, is that the clubs didn’t want a rigid framework for punishment……

They had the choice to create a “menu” for punishments and chose not to.

This mess is down to the clubs.

An independent regulator is needed for me, as the premier league setting these rules and punishments themselves has been a bloody car crash!

 

[Watfordfc]

Is this potential change in the rules done so they don’t have to deduct points from Man City or other big clubs ?

Not sure Everton and Forest will be too happy given their punishment.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Soft cap - that was my exact idea to redistribute taxes to the clubs that don’t breach a taxline, hopefully I’ll be due a cheque in the mail if it passes…

Still not sure it will work though. Removing FFP removes the safety blanket, what happens when the Oil Barons are bored of Newcastle after spending billions with zero restrictions leaving them with crippling debts?

It allows those who want to spend to spend, while the clubs who play fair receive a significant tax from each of the clubs that breach it.

Newcastle spend £1 billion with a 50% tax rate on anything over £100 million, £450 million split between the teams that don’t go above the tax line (let’s say 10 clubs), that would mean £45m each.

Might seem like a drop in the ocean, but when you factor in the “big six” doing similar, it would soon add up. Even so, if it gave clubs that played fair an extra £200m to spend it’s still nothing compared to what the top clubs will be spending.

Realistically though what does releasing the shackles actually do for the league. The big six will continue spending, and maybe a flurry of clubs will also spend exorbitant amounts to try to compete - namely Newcastle.

Does it actually benefit us in the long run? If anything it creates a less competitive league as the “big six” becomes however many other clubs want to spend billions to try to compete until their owners get bored and cut the cord.

Keep FFP but make it less restrictive, allow clubs to spend 100% of what they earn rather than 70%. It doesn’t solve the problem of the “big six” still having significantly more room to spend, but I’m not convinced a free-for-all would be any better to be honest.

Of course the PL can remove FSP in England but then English clubs qualifying for Europe will get absolutely hammered by UEFA who have been busy strengthening their own FSP.

Spending £1Bn then being barred from the CL and the associated £££s looks rather less appealing.....

 

[topcat99]

Is this potential change in the rules done so they don’t have to deduct points from Man City or other big clubs ?

Not sure Everton and Forest will be too happy given their punishment.

I get the impression that it’s for future breaches. And there would be a “Start Date” for new rules?

So Chelsea, Villa, Leicester etc could still have problems
If not, the PL and FA could be open to legal action.
City problem seems to be an entirely different kettle of fish

 

[Oldskooldayz]

Of course the PL can remove FSP in England but then English clubs qualifying for Europe will get absolutely hammered by UEFA who have been busy strengthening their own FSP.

Spending £1Bn then being barred from the CL and the associated £££s looks rather less appealing.....

Uefa's days are numbered mate, by hook or by crook the super league will happen, if the English sides are banned then it just gets set up sooner and probably with a very heavy English presence (10 sides or so).

 

[WickedWolfie]

Uefa's days are numbered mate, by hook or by crook the super league will happen, if the English sides are banned then it just gets set up sooner and probably with a very heavy English presence (10 sides or so).

There is precious little love lost between UEFA and FIFA but l seriously doubt that the latter want that, which could seriously challenge their authority over the game, either.

 

[Watfordfc]

I get the impression that it’s for future breaches. And there would be a “Start Date” for new rules?

So Chelsea, Villa, Leicester etc could still have problems
If not, the PL and FA could be open to legal action.
City problem seems to be an entirely different kettle of fish

Yes that is what I thought,

Guess115 breaches is a lot and no doubt lawyers on both sides are making lots of money out of the situation.

 

[theweave]

This is not the forum to get into that debate, but that’s a poorly informed assessment of why energy prices have been high. More generally, regulators apply the rules and guidelines using the tools they are given. Give them poorly drafted rules, few resources and few powers, and you will get garbage regulation. Give a competent football regulator the right rules, and tools, and we will get decent regulation for the game.

You're dreaming if you think they'll have the power to make any real change

 

[Oliwolf44]

So as soon as the regulations actually show their teeth and actually do something the clubs are trying to squirm out of them. Shows that they are actually working lol.
A financial penalty for clubs where finances are of no consequence seems fair