Doyler

[North West Wanderer]

Sad isn't it?

I wasn't good enough to become a professional and I imagine, like most people here, I'd be willing to pay big money to play football at a high level. But, like all things, the novelty does wear off and these people are no different really to other professional trades people. Most of them have only ever known football. This is what separates the likes of Ricky Lambert, Steve Bull, Kev Phillips etc - they have done actual, real life jobs. They understand the perspective of privilege. 99.9% of the players who are aged 18 to 25 know only the world of football and they are often striving for the trappings that football delivers rather than just the pleasure of playing the game.

This is where, in my opinion, Ferguson (and some others) were so good. He was able to weed out the lads who were genuinely motivated by professional success vs those who were motivated by the trappings of football. Some of the stories I've heard about how he would treat big time charlies...absolutely brutal. Particularly Keiron Richardson

Is that the "car" story?

Many people have had to. Choice of working or not working.
Many have been made redundant with either little or no payoff.
Then my son's girlfriend took a pay cut to get a job she wanted to do. People do it.
Doyle had a chance to play at a higher level which may have meant a return to international football.
Choices my friend.

Indeed - but at the level of millions I'm not so sure.

 

[JuliusCaesar]

Is that the "car" story?

The car story is one of many as far as KR is concerned. He really didn't seem to learn.

An even better story I heard is actually of a young pro who allowed C Ronaldo to take his place in line at the club canteen. Ferguson asked the lad why he'd allowed Ronaldo to push in front of him. ''He told me he was in a rush and needed to leave early''. Ferguson exploded at him in front of everyone and said ''If you're not worthy of keeping your place in a line and you're star struck by people like him, perhaps you'd be better off somewhere else." The lad was on loan in League 1 10 days later and never made a professional appearance in Utd's first team.

 

[North West Wanderer]

The car story is one of many as far as KR is concerned. He really didn't seem to learn.

An even better story I heard is actually of a young pro who allowed C Ronaldo to take his place in line at the club canteen. Ferguson asked the lad why he'd allowed Ronaldo to push in front of him. ''He told me he was in a rush and needed to leave early''. Ferguson exploded at him in front of everyone and said ''If you're not worthy of keeping your place in a line and you're star struck by people like him, perhaps you'd be better off somewhere else." The lad was on loan in League 1 10 days later and never made a professional appearance in Utd's first team.

Ouch!

I heard KR and his new car was part of the reason Roy Keane exploded!

 

[Essex Wolf]

The car story is one of many as far as KR is concerned. He really didn't seem to learn.

An even better story I heard is actually of a young pro who allowed C Ronaldo to take his place in line at the club canteen. Ferguson asked the lad why he'd allowed Ronaldo to push in front of him. ''He told me he was in a rush and needed to leave early''. Ferguson exploded at him in front of everyone and said ''If you're not worthy of keeping your place in a line and you're star struck by people like him, perhaps you'd be better off somewhere else." The lad was on loan in League 1 10 days later and never made a professional appearance in Utd's first team.

Like him or not, and I liked SAF, no one can question his achievements. Maybe harsh on the lad by the sound of things but if that's the attitude SAF had it obviously worked.

 

[Dewsburywolf]

Like him or not, and I liked SAF, no one can question his achievements. Maybe harsh on the lad by the sound of things but if that's the attitude SAF had it obviously worked.

I guess it's a matter of application & even Man. United have the attitude of no-one's bigger than the club --- see Paul Ince & Mark Hughes for clarification. Something Mick McCarthy tried to do but obviously we're on a smaller scale than Man. United so it doesn't always work

 

[Essex Wolf]

I guess it's a matter of application & even Man. United have the attitude of no-one's bigger than the club --- see Paul Ince & Mark Hughes for clarification. Something Mick McCarthy tried to do but obviously we're on a smaller scale than Man. United so it doesn't always work

Not a bad attitude to have though Dews when it does work.

 

[FLEET WOLF]

Like him or not, and I liked SAF, no one can question his achievements. Maybe harsh on the lad by the sound of things but if that's the attitude SAF had it obviously worked.

He was probably not going to make it, anyway, bet he wouldn't have done that had it been a young Cleverley or Jones! I didn't mind SAF, in some respects and I have more time for him than that $$$$ Mourinho or that moaning prat Wenger.

 

[Floydstreet]

Key for me is that I genuinely believe he is committed, intelligent and respectful. Yes he's n a lot of money, but he will be an asset this season (something joh or RJ couldn't be IMO) and I also think he can be a great influence on the younger players, in particular mcalinden and Cassidy.
We need depth, its a long season and we will get injuries. So it's not about McDonald, price, Evans or Davis, its two from four throughout the season given form and injuries.
Upfront it's not Siggy or Doyle, again its 2 from 4/5 given form and injuries.

They'll all get their chance and this depth gives us options, gives us flex and also gives us the opportunity to develop some of our academy players.

All good, I said last season that we'd learn lessons from the last two horrific seasons and hope we have. I also believe that sometimes you have to go backwards to move forwards. Sometimes you have to suffer (boy have we suffered !) to then enjoy.

So keeping sako and Doyle is great news and I'd only have been concerned if I thought they were a negative impact on the squad. Doyle 100% isn't that and it seems sako isn't either.

 

[Dewsburywolf]

Not a bad attitude to have though Dews when it does work.

Indeed & one that should apply in every job in every walk of life. If you're not prepared to put the hours in (like Ronaldo & indeed Beckham did --- last man to leave training whilst he practiced his "art" of free-kick taking) then you don't deserve to pick up the (over-inflated) salaries that come with being a professional footballer. I guess this is why footballers get the reputation of being thick/unintelligent due to the fact of them being so talented at football that they let their "normal" schooling fall by the wayside so as to concentrate on their "art". Thus they have no grounding & could well be stuck for what to do once their football career is over. There's only so many managerial/coaching jobs to go round & also TV punditry ones as well. Which then leads to the comments re a football career is short so they have to earn as much as they can whilst playing to set them up for when they stop doing so

 

[JuliusCaesar]

He was probably not going to make it, anyway, bet he wouldn't have done that had it been a young Cleverley or Jones! I didn't mind SAF, in some respects and I have more time for him than that $$$$ Mourinho or that moaning prat Wenger.

I think a lot of it is due to making a point to a wider group. It's a culture thing, which is why a lot of those Utd kids who came through with Scholes, Giggs, Nevilles etc were taught from a young age not to respect opponents on reputation alone. Alternatively, such a public display would be designed to make a point to senior players about acting in an arrogant manner toward younger players. The ability to gain respect and fear from multi millionaires is a hell of a man management skill. Hodgson has it, Wenger has it, Ferguson obvious had it, Clough had it. The likes of John Gregory, Phil Brown etc all thought they had it but they didn't.

Wolves current manager has it. He understands the immense value of making players feel important without alienating those who are not in the team. Hoddle was the opposite. So many people have spoken about how they respected him immediately due to his playing days but when dealing with him, found him to be arrogant and high handed. Good man management will never, ever go out of fashion no matter how talented, hard working, rich or established an individual player is.

 

[luckyjim]

I think a lot of it is due to making a point to a wider group. It's a culture thing, which is why a lot of those Utd kids who came through with Scholes, Giggs, Nevilles etc were taught from a young age not to respect opponents on reputation alone. Alternatively, such a public display would be designed to make a point to senior players about acting in an arrogant manner toward younger players. The ability to gain respect and fear from multi millionaires is a hell of a man management skill. Hodgson has it, Wenger has it, Ferguson obvious had it, Clough had it. The likes of John Gregory, Phil Brown etc all thought they had it but they didn't.

Wolves current manager has it. He understands the immense value of making players feel important without alienating those who are not in the team. Hoddle was the opposite. So many people have spoken about how they respected him immediately due to his playing days but when dealing with him, found him to be arrogant and high handed. Good man management will never, ever go out of fashion no matter how talented, hard working, rich or established an individual player is.

Did Saunders have it?

 

[Paul76]

Did Saunders have it?

He never lost it.

 

[Summer_Wolf]

Fair play to the bloke. He could have easily sulked and **** on us because I really think mcclueless ruined his career by making him run into the ground instead of playing him as an out and out striker and we never saw what he could really do as a centre forward. Otherwise I believe he'd have been a massive hit in the greed league by now. I just think what he could have become with some decent coaches working with him. Despite that he's sticking it out which is pleasing. Good honest pro.

 

[Surrey Wolf]

He could be very rich for all I know. But he lives in what I would call a modest home and drives a sensible car. He is very tight. Which may not be anything to do with what he gets paid but more to do with the fact that it's a very short career and he's previously earned very little. Despite the footballer's reputation, they do have a short career, most/majority don't earn massive wages and, even the ones who do, I can never relate to those people who think a player will just take a massive pay cut in order to play. They don't care about playing half as much as people think they do. They care about their lifestyle which all comes from their contract. This is why O'Hara and Johnson will not take anything less that their contracts entitle them to. It's down to the club to solve that thorny issue.

And this is where the 'it's a short career' argument put up by footballers/agents etc falls flat on it's face for me.....not much of a career if you're not doing the job you're paid for (playing football)

 

[OLDGOLD]

Did Saunders have it?

He of course had the eye of the tiger.

Unfortunately, said tiger was very old. Myopic.


And had cataracts


and was bindfolded

 

[North West Wanderer]

Davis on Soccer Saturday confirmed what a team player he is, always wants the ball and is such an intelligent player.

Excellent to hear at least Doyle has the support of his teammates.

 

[Perton Wolf]

Davis on Soccer Saturday confirmed what a team player he is, always wants the ball and is such an intelligent player.

Excellent to hear at least Doyle has the support of his teammates.

He has the support of the fans while on the pitch too. You should remember just because somebody discusses him on here and might not think of him as highly as you doesn't mean they don't support him.

 

[OsloWolf]

He has the support of the fans while on the pitch too. You should remember just because somebody discusses him on here and might not think of him as highly as you doesn't mean they don't support him.

Agreed. Doyle has brilliant support.

 

[reanswolf]

Most will know I have always admired Kevin Doyle.

I do understand some of the points (not all) that his detractors (or non-admirers) highlight, but i implore everyone to get behind him because he is a decent person who appreciates the support of us fans and is proud to play for Wolves - he has always said as much.

 

[Tring Wolf]

Most will know I have always admired Kevin Doyle.

I do understand some of the points (not all) that his detractors (or non-admirers) highlight, but i implore everyone to get behind him because he is a decent person who appreciates the support of us fans and is proud to play for Wolves - he has always said as much.

Completely agree with this. But then the same could be said of people like Stephen Ward and David Edwards.

 

[Surrey Wolf]

Davis on Soccer Saturday confirmed what a team player he is, always wants the ball and is such an intelligent player.

Excellent to hear at least Doyle has the support of his teammates.

Missed this but Dad was telling me he also said that RJ & JO'H were left out of the 1st team group because the manager thought they would be a disruptive influence .... pretty damning if that's what he said

 

[North West Wanderer]

He has the support of the fans while on the pitch too. You should remember just because somebody discusses him on here and might not think of him as highly as you doesn't mean they don't support him.

I don't need to remember it as I haven't forgotten it? I haven't referred to on the pitch or on here, so please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[North West Wanderer]

Missed this but Dad was telling me he also said that RJ & JO'H were left out of the 1st team group because the manager thought they would be a disruptive influence .... pretty damning if that's what he said

Not in so many words but the insinuation was clear!

 

[PREM.L.L]

I think a lot of it is due to making a point to a wider group. It's a culture thing, which is why a lot of those Utd kids who came through with Scholes, Giggs, Nevilles etc were taught from a young age not to respect opponents on reputation alone. Alternatively, such a public display would be designed to make a point to senior players about acting in an arrogant manner toward younger players. The ability to gain respect and fear from multi millionaires is a hell of a man management skill. Hodgson has it, Wenger has it, Ferguson obvious had it, Clough had it. The likes of John Gregory, Phil Brown etc all thought they had it but they didn't.

Wolves current manager has it. He understands the immense value of making players feel important without alienating those who are not in the team. Hoddle was the opposite. So many people have spoken about how they respected him immediately due to his playing days but when dealing with him, found him to be arrogant and high handed. Good man management will never, ever go out of fashion no matter how talented, hard working, rich or established an individual player is.

Nice post that mate. Good man management is a rare skill and I think it is so important especially in todays climate. Conveying the importance of the players role in all aspects is a tricky thing and if the player himself can buy into that you have someone with humility you can trust which for a manager is priceless.