British Premier League

[Chisels_n_ommers]

If Celtic and Rangers were in the prem for a few seasons they'd soon be challenging the Dirty Six.

For that reason, given the DS's closed shop mentality, plus the likes of Villa, Leeds, Everton, West Ham, Leicester and Wolves looking also to get in the top 6, this would be welcomed by very few English clubs.

The only way it would be considered is if the TV rights shot up disproportionately due to it, which is doubtful.

It's a non starter

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

The whole idea is a bit of a none starter, if Rangers and Celtic came in then they could pretty much kiss goodbye to any European involvement.
However, replacing both association’s League Cups with latter stage rounds then that might work?

They would with their current squads, but with PL money those squads would improve.

Celtic would be in the top three when it came to ticket sales and merchandise, so they'd have an edge commercially over almost every other team. More money = better players.

Rangers aren't quite at that level. But with a stadium that holds over 50k and a large devoted fan base at home and the English (Scottish) speaking World there natural position is alongside the likes of Newcastle, Everton, Villa, Spurs. So no guarantees but with a fair wind would certainly be challenging top four.

Celtic though are a huge threat. Bigger than Arsenal. Potentially as big as Liverpool and United with their global brand. To my mind the greedy six would be mad to let them in.

 

[jrpb-3]

maybe some new British competition with the winners or top teams of the previous seasons leagues / divisions and cups qualifying for it

 

[Lycaon]

This thing about scrapping the league cup because theres gonna be more European games annoys me. What about the rest of the teams who aren't in Europe? They should just say if you qualify for Europe then you don't enter the league cup. Would really open it up for lower premier league and championship clubs. They could do the rounds the same time as the European ones.

Wasn’t really meaning scrapping the League Cup, both countries would still play the initial rounds as they are but bring in the teams from Scotland at say the quarter final stage and alternate the final between Hampden and Wembley, effectively you’re just adding one extra round so shouldn’t add too much to the fixture congestion plus it would raise the profile of the competition which is, let’s face it not taken seriously by the bigger teams anyway.
Only a thought!

 

[Hot Fuss]

The whole idea is a bit of a none starter, if Rangers and Celtic came in then they could pretty much kiss goodbye to any European involvement.
However, replacing both association’s League Cups with latter stage rounds then that might work?

They’d both be among the top clubs in the league within 5 years. Last thing our “big clubs” want is 2 massive clubs joining, never going to happen.

 

[topcat99]

I was thinking this. Personally I'm not keen on Celtic and Rangers in our leagues, but Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Wrexham are.

The Welsh clubs didn’t join at the top level though did they?

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

If Celtic and Rangers were in the prem for a few seasons they'd soon be challenging the Dirty Six.

For that reason, given the DS's closed shop mentality, plus the likes of Villa, Leeds, Everton, West Ham, Leicester and Wolves looking also to get in the top 6, this would be welcomed by very few English clubs.

The only way it would be considered is if the TV rights shot up disproportionately due to it, which is doubtful.

It's a non starter

That's the thing though. TV rights. The DS put dividends before trophies.

Perhaps also the PL would benefit from having more European qualification berths if the OF came or if the leagues merged.

 

[Deleted member 11332]

The Welsh clubs didn’t join at the top level though did they?

Quite right, if they want in they should start at the bottom. Both huge clubs though and if they got into the PL would both be right up there in terms of revenue due to the sheer size of their respective fanbases.

 

[Wall heath Wanderer]

Why would any club be allowed to join the very top of the English domestic set up?
Punishing lower league teams, and also the knock on effect of 2 English teams being relegated to make space, 2 teams denied promotion to make space, more if the pl reduced to 18 teams.

May as well as let them have the super league.

We need to change the distribution of money to better enable and enhance competition throughout English football, not pander to top clubs and put more money in their pockets whilst making it more difficult for lower league clubs to advance.

 

[WickedWolfie]

The idea that Rangers and Celtic could join a 'British' League would be more ammunition for Johnny Foreigner to say that the UK should lose its special historical dispensation and rightfully have one 'national' team. After all and by any standards England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales are simply not 'countries'.

The way things are heading they (with the exception of NI) may well be soon.

 

[WickedWolfie]

This is what I was going to say, the League Cup is long since dead so replace it with something novel. And then it’d put the Old Firm back in their place a bit when they get knocked out in the fourth round by Millwall.

Can you imagine the carnage if their fans tried giving it large at the New Den????

 

[WickedWolfie]

That's the thing though. TV rights. The DS put dividends before trophies.

Perhaps also the PL would benefit from having more European qualification berths if the OF came or if the leagues merged.

More likely there would be less European places.

Both England and Scotland currently get places. If the OF, but not the rest of the Scottish League, came to England l doubt that any of the Scottish places would come with them. Why would English clubs want two Scottish teams competing for the existing English European places?

If the whole Scottish League merged with the English League (and l can't see half of the SPL being happy in L1 which is where they'd belong at best) then other Leagues (German, Spanish, Italian) would rightly argue that the merged structure, as one league, should have the same basic European place allocation as any other top league (i.e. what England already gets). They'd also likely argue that the places allocated for past performance, where England currently does well, should be cut to reflect the worse performances of Scottish teams.....

 

[topcat99]

Another angle

These two clubs are sharks in a goldfish pond. Therefore they qualify for European football every year. (At least until mid September)

That would not happen (or be a shoe in) if they moved South.

That could possibly put them off

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

More likely there would be less European places.

Both England and Scotland currently get places. If the OF, but not the rest of the Scottish League, came to England l doubt that any of the Scottish places would come with them. Why would English clubs want two Scottish teams competing for the existing English European places?

If the whole Scottish League merged with the English League (and l can't see half of the SPL being happy in L1 which is where they'd belong at best) then other Leagues (German, Spanish, Italian) would rightly argue that the merged structure, as one league, should have the same basic European place allocation as any other top league (i.e. what England already gets). They'd also likely argue that the places allocated for past performance, where England currently does well, should be cut to reflect the worse performances of Scottish teams.....

There are a number of owners happy to survive in the PL with no ambition of playing in Europe. There are owners who would love to qualify but have no expectation to who would just like more money. There are owners who value money over trophies.

I don't think fosun fit any of those descriptions, and am sure they'd vote against any merger. I'm not so confident about the others.

I'm sure any merger will involve negotiation with UEFA, I wouldn't assume no European places would be coming with the OF.

 

[Deleted member 11332]

Another angle

These two clubs are sharks in a goldfish pond. Therefore they qualify for European football every year. (At least until mid September)

That would not happen (or be a shoe in) if they moved South.

That could possibly put them off

Very much doubt it. As with every club now, money is the driver and being in the PL is far more lucrative. They don't even get automatic entry into Europe and have to qualify.

 

[Mutchy]

Stick to football please folks. Don't go talking the thread down a political route.

 

[WickedWolfie]

There are a number of owners happy to survive in the PL with no ambition of playing in Europe. There are owners who would love to qualify but have no expectation to who would just like more money. There are owners who value money over trophies.

I don't think fosun fit any of those descriptions, and am sure they'd vote against any merger. I'm not so confident about the others.

I'm sure any merger will involve negotiation with UEFA, I wouldn't assume no European places would be coming with the OF.

Any of those owners voting for OF inclusion would be gambling that they retain their PL place. The introduction of two teams which would definitely be big, even if not initially, would reduce the likelihood of that.....

 

[Pagey]

Could understand Celtic, but why invite a team that's only a couple of seasons old, with no history?

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Any of those owners voting for OF inclusion would be gambling that they retain their PL place. The introduction of two teams which would definitely be big, even if not initially, would reduce the likelihood of that.....

I agree. But I don't know what sweeteners would be offered for these clubs to not consider it.

On the face of it, it's a silly idea for any PL club, big or small. But it's being touted as a possibility.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I agree. But I don't know what sweeteners would be offered for these clubs to not consider it.

On the face of it, it's a silly idea for any PL club, big or small. But it's being touted as a possibility.

In essence it's just a smaller scale version of ESL with the same incentives and risks

 

[WickedWolfie]

Could understand Celtic, but why invite a team that's only a couple of seasons old, with no history?

Probably, given our own past financial issues and consequent corporate restructurings, a question best not asked by Wolves fans....

 

[WolfLing]

I wouldn't be adverse to welcoming all of the Scottish League into ours. Think it would add a bit of spice with England vs Scotland games.

It would be a ball-ache to sort out who goes in where, but that wouldn't be my problem.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I wouldn't be adverse to welcoming all of the Scottish League into ours. Think it would add a bit of spice with England vs Scotland games.

It would be a ball-ache to sort out who goes in where, but that wouldn't be my problem.

Aberdeen away on a Tuesday night..... That'd make the Gold ASTs earn their points!

Inverness CT away at Plymouth midweek...... Wonderful for match attending fans, NOT!

 

[WolfLing]

Aberdeen away on a Tuesday night..... That'd make the Gold ASTs earn their points!

Inverness CT away at Plymouth midweek...... Wonderful for match attending fans, NOT!

Streamed directly to your British Super League VR fan headset, sponsored by Tena Man.

 

[topcat99]

I wouldn't be adverse to welcoming all of the Scottish League into ours. Think it would add a bit of spice with England vs Scotland games.

It would be a ball-ache to sort out who goes in where, but that wouldn't be my problem.

None are members of the English FA.

So they start at the very bottom

Anything else would be grossly unfair to clubs that are already in the system.
Probably would not get past any vote otherwise.

Porto and Paderborn have the same rights to get into the English pyramid. I.e None

 

[JonahWolf]

Another angle

These two clubs are sharks in a goldfish pond. Therefore they qualify for European football every year. (At least until mid September)

That would not happen (or be a shoe in) if they moved South.

That could possibly put them off

True. But the Scottish league winner gets a chance to qualify for the champions league, with group stage income of at least £30m through TV revenue.
That means they have to win the league, then possibly knock out someone half HoweverThey probably get a decent wedge of the **** poor Scottish TV rights, plus a load of facility fees since the old firm games are guaranteed to be on prime time slots.

However. Premier league is £125+m every year just for survival. 17/20 is still easier than coming first in a 2 horse race, plus having qualifiers after that, to get a crapload more dough.
No brainer for them financially, but they can still **** off.

European football is a big deal financially because it’s on top of domestic revenue, but in that very one off scenario it’s risking that nice earner on top of very little for a massive base rate.

 

[SmokeyGB]

No problem with them joining the League
Just start at the bottom like all the rest,if they make it to the Prem in 3/4 years great
EARN IT!!!!!!!

Sorry but if they start at the bottom - what right do they have to jump ahead of Torquay in National League, or York City in North Conference or Stafford Rangers even further blow the pyramid?
Sod this they start in League 2 or National League - Down to the VERY bottom of the pyramid we've all just been banging the drum about and then they can earn it - take about 10 years to work up if they win every league.
My team would have to win the league every year for 5 years just to make it to North Conference and then another 5 to make it to the Premier League from just that stage.

 

[topcat99]

Sorry but if they start at the bottom - what right do they have to jump ahead of Torquay in National League, or York City in North Conference or Stafford Rangers even further blow the pyramid?
Sod this they start in League 2 or National League - Down to the VERY bottom of the pyramid we've all just been banging the drum about and then they can earn it - take about 10 years to work up if they win every league.
My team would have to win the league every year for 5 years just to make it to North Conference and then another 5 to make it to the Premier League from just that stage.

10 years to get to the PL?

You’d still get there before Derby and Brentford.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

In essence it's just a smaller scale version of ESL with the same incentives and risks

I don't see it as anything like the ESL. You're not excluding anyone (except the Scots league if the OF are the only invitees) or eliminating jeopardy (relegation).

In its purest form - merging the leagues retains the competitive nature of our system. There's no ceiling for lower league clubs other than the confines of their own resources and the decisions they make.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I don't see it as anything like the ESL. You're not excluding anyone (except the Scots league if the OF are the only invitees) or eliminating jeopardy (relegation).

In its purest form - merging the leagues retains the competitive nature of our system. There's no ceiling for lower league clubs other than the confines of their own resources and the decisions they make.

In its purest form you are correct. In reality, unless the current funding model is changed, the big clubs would just get bigger and most of the current Scottish lower division teams would end up as non-League (not even near National League level either).

 

[Incognito]

Can't see how Rangers and Celtic jumping ship is any different to the big 6 shenanigans these past few days. The Scottish pyramid would suffer, just as the English one would have with the big 6 leaving. No for me.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

In its purest form you are correct. In reality, unless the current funding model is changed, the big clubs would just get bigger and most of the current Scottish lower division teams would end up as non-League (not even near National League level either).

Can't argue with that. But then there's an argument that those Scottish Clubs couldn't handle our National League anyway so would be their natural level.

The possibility of rising through the divisions is still there. Yes, the opposition is suddenly much harder and maybe there's a couple more divisions to work through. But those clubs with the resources and the ability can still reach the pinnacle.

 

[thisisgil]

In theory, I'd really like to see the spectacle of these two clubs competing within the Premier League. Unless we can come up with a way to allow other Scottish teams a route in and out (and I'm not sure how you'd deal with relegations from the EPL if no Scottish team finished in the bottom 3), then isn't this the same as the proposed Super League?

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

I'm sure smaller clubs in Scotland will miss the OF, so the OF can remain in the SFA Cup and not in ours. It would represent their easiest route to Europe albeit the tertiary competition in all likelihood. Celtic and Rangers could continue to give something back to Scottish football. It goes without saying all Scottish Clubs playing in our league would remain in the SFA Cup.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

In theory, I'd really like to see the spectacle of these two clubs competing within the Premier League. Unless we can come up with a way to allow other Scottish teams a route in and out (and I'm not sure how you'd deal with relegations from the EPL if no Scottish team finished in the bottom 3), then isn't this the same as the proposed Super League?

Not if the Scots league and ours merged. You'd have to regionalise the lower divisions - maybe 8 smaller divisions whose champions were all drawn to 4 playoff finals, the winners replaced the bottom 4 of the second or third tier. Relegated clubs join the regional divisions which are completely redrawn every season to maintain the geographical nature of those divisions.

It needs more thought to avoid the monotony of only the champions having a sniff at promotion...

Some sort of playoffs for runner ups who play beaten playoff finalists, the winners of which then play each other and playoff in relegation/promotion playoffs from the division above.

I hope that makes sense, I'm literally just spouting.

 

[Bogota Wolf]

I think they should just revamp the League Cup as an Anglo-Scottish Cup in some way and leave it at that.

That made me smile, perhaps similarly the Dirty 6 could resurrect the Anglo Italian Cup and invite the Spanish 3. They could call it the SPITE CUP.

 

[ombyman]

I just don't get this idea as they would get the first season premie league TV payment but then surely they would have a very real risk of ending up in League 1 or worse. Rangers and Celtic, in my opinion are no bigger a club than Sunderland, Forrest, Sheff Wed etc kr even Pompy or Bolton. They could realistically find them selves in the third tier in three years! Which would be more problematic as teams like Yeovil would have to travel up there!
Then you have the issue of 20000 Glaswegians turning up at Yeovil!

They need to stay the big fish and concentrate on improving in Europe. Surely they can find some Chinese or Americans to sign up to the SPL TV? Market it as Bravehart league or something!

Imagine if Cardiff and Swansea were battering TNS and Haveford West every week and then came to English football with a fanfare....

 

[Deleted member 11332]

I'm sure smaller clubs in Scotland will miss the OF, so the OF can remain in the SFA Cup and not in ours. It would represent their easiest route to Europe albeit the tertiary competition in all likelihood. Celtic and Rangers could continue to give something back to Scottish football. It goes without saying all Scottish Clubs playing in our league would remain in the SFA Cup.

The old firm basically props up the rest of Scottish football, never mind give back.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

The old firm basically props up the rest of Scottish football, never mind give back.

But if they played in the English League but still contested the Scottish Cup, they'd be giving back.

 

[OLDGOLD]

The idea that Rangers and Celtic could join a 'British' League would be more ammunition for Johnny Foreigner to say that the UK should lose its special historical dispensation and rightfully have one 'national' team. After all and by any standards England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales are simply not 'countries'.

I can only think that too much of the Columbian poppy products have addled your brain if England is not a country.