Brighton verdict

[Ian C]

My take on this after watching back the ‘lowlights’.

We used to be able to defend, we were hard to score against. For some reason, Nuno decided to **** about at the back and change the ‘system’, even though Kilman was looking pretty solid and available for cover for Boly. I think yesterday when we swapped to a back three (which was basically a back five as Semedo and RAN didn’t have the opportunity to get forward), Kilman was left where Saiss has played in the main, Saiss centre where Coady has been and Coady right. Why **** about with something that was working?

Other than not being able to score, we were pretty difficult to break down. Now we’re not either and Nuno didn’t need to **** about with the bit that was working to try to fix the bit that wasn’t.

A few other things.....

RAN is NOT an upgrade on Vinagre, in fact Vinagre was better defensively.

Semedo looks great going forward, can most certainly cross and strike the ball but my God, he’s weak in defence. The amount of times players have just breezed past him like he not there! With him one side and RAN the other, defensively we’re very poor.

Neto looked knackered last night, he needs to learn that he’s not there to take on the world though and pass the ball, which brings me on to.....

Silva. Not really sure what to say. OK, he’s young but yesterday was pretty much invisible. He won a couple of free kicks in our half, that was pretty much it. His ball control looks really poor to me, yes he’s a ‘work in progress’ but if Nuno is ultimately responsible for us having no proper back up for Raul, that is inexcusable. We’re a Premier League club, yes it’s lovely to think we’re developing all of these players, but ultimately it’s about winning games.

Yes we’re missing players, up to recently we’ve been incredibly lucky with injuries, but I don’t think Nuno should be allowed to continue with this ridiculous pipe dream of a small squad any more, our bench last night offered zero options.

I honestly don’t think we’ve upgraded anywhere on the pitch thus far, we’re desperately missing Jota who could have at least kept us scoring a few. Podence may change my mind, yes he’s been very good at times and has some very neat feet, I still believe he’s too lightweight for teams like Brighton and Burnley etc. Traore better last night, much better. For those barking on about his utter brilliance, he should play like he did last night every week, the talent is there. The fact that 90% of the time he doesn’t is so frustrating.

Finally, a word on Moutinho. The guy is a legend, probably the most consistent of all of our team. I simply don’t understand why he’s the first name on Nuno’s team sheet though. Surely Otasowie would have been as effective last night from the start? He’s looked good when he’s played thus far, but Nuno then relegates him (and Kilman) back to the bench. Why does he do this, must be a massive confidence kick in the teeth?

So many points dropped this season, due to our own failings and trying to defend for 85 minutes at times. We were ‘gifted’ a two goal lead at half time and the same old Nuno decides to try to park the bus. We should really have lost that, Brighton fans must be gutted.

 

[Wolf316]

Neto is dead on his feet, you can see it in his body language. He is playing more minutes than traore and podence and running further too. He didn’t change direction as quickly mid sprint, he is 20 years old, the workload he is doing is and has caught up to him.

yes troare was much better, it is time he finally delivered in a game this season. He looked close to the troare of last season. But effort of the season Neto is miles ahead of him.

edit:

just been on the premier league stats website and did a side by side for Neto and traore for this season...... they are updated for last night

Neto has 4 goals to adamas ZERO

Neto has 3 assists to adamas ZERO

Neto has 22 more shots on goal of which he has been on target more . Adama has only three shots at on target from 10 shots

Neto has also put in 34 more crosses

Neto has 278 more touches of the ball

Neto has just shy of 20% better pass accuracy

Neto has had 278 touches more touches

for the 278 more touches, Neto has only been dispossessed 2 less times. So adama in A LOT fewer touches he loses the ball more in posession


Neto has over 250 more passes,

adama has made 10 more forward ones

Neto has exactly 20 more interceptions

Neto has 2 more chances created. 4:2 neto

Traore has attempted 5 more tackles but only won one more

the only stat for Traore that outshines Neto is Ariel duals - adama has won 21 more Ariel duals.

looking at those stats and comparative numbers how can people say Traore before last night has been playing well, those numbers don’t lie.

Even Ruben has better attacking stats than Traore too...... and people are criticising him no end... no point comparing defensive stats lol

Christ did Adama **** your missus or something?

 

[Leamwolf]

Christ did Adama **** your missus or something?

No, although I am not sure he has the ability to score anywhere mate...... he hasn’t in a year.

but good to see a reasoned response to my post, very articulate.

I am simply showing people who want to say there is an “agenda” against adama, that there isn’t and people are simply stating what they are seeing and the facts back them up. That research took 5 mins on the internet, this season his performances haven’t been good enough on the whole and I struggle to see how people are defending him so passionately on THIS seasons form.

 

[rg4352]

No, although I am not sure he has the ability to score anywhere mate...... he hasn’t in a year.

but good to see a reasoned response to my post, very articulate.

I am simply showing people who want to say there is an “agenda” against adama, that there isn’t and people are simply stating what they are seeing and the facts back them up. That research took 5 mins on the internet, this season his performances haven’t been good enough on the whole and I struggle to see how people are defending him so passionately on THIS seasons form.

Can you show me the stats and video evidence from yesterday to back up your post that he did nothing for 30mins in the first half yesterday just out of interest?

 

[Leamwolf]

Can you show me the stats and video evidence from yesterday to back up your post that he did nothing for 30mins in the first half yesterday just out of interest?

I am not watching that shower of **** game again...... I don’t need to abuse my mental state with it again.......

Well if you want to chime in pal, tell me what he contributed?

there were multiple posts saying the same thing and likes on my post during the game......

he was excellent after he won the pen, but he offered nothing till then and people forget there was a game before he started to attack and play like the adama we grew to love last season

 

[rg4352]

Well if you want to chime in pal, tell me what he contributed?

there were multiple posts saying the same thing and likes on my post during the game......

he was excellent after he won the pen, but he offered nothing till then and people forget there was a game before he started to attack and play like the adama we grew to love last season

Sure, numerous times in the first half attacks were attempted down Semedo’s half in the first half, where he tracked back, won the ball and ran with the ball and got it out of our own half. All of a sudden the attacks changed to Ait Nouri’s side where he struggled.

He won us a penalty by driving down the right into a seemingly blind alley, he set up a sitter for Otasowie to put away in the death. he also won us fouls and quite often was drawing anywhere between 2-4 defenders around him everytime he had the ball, which if we’d have had a more attacking midfielder on the pitch could have ran into acres of space

There are also numerous likes on numerous posts where people said he tracked back and started attacks in the first half yesterday, both during and after the game

 

[Leamwolf]

There are also numerous likes on numerous posts where people said he tracked back and started attacks in the first half yesterday, both during and after the game

After he won the pen, yes he did....... I am not arguing that point.

but you can’t offer any examples of involvement.....

but he did next to nothing before the pen.

moutinho was the biggest weakness as I have said and he isn’t worth his space

 

[rg4352]

After he won the pen, yes he did....... I am not arguing that point.

but you can’t offer any examples of involvement.....

but he did next to nothing before the pen.

moutinho was the biggest weakness as I have said and he isn’t worth his space

Ive just pointed out the numerous times he went to help Semedo out IN THE FIRST HALF he also brought the ball out of our own half to start attacks IN THE FIRST HALF. If I still had the match saved on my sky box I could literally record them and show you them - they were in the first half and before the penalty.

I genuinely am at a loss as to how you can say he did nothing in the first 30mins, it’s like you either didn’t watch the game or whenever Traore was in shot you closed your eyes!

 

[Leamwolf]

Ive just pointed out the numerous times he went to help Semedo out IN THE FIRST HALF he also brought the ball out of our own half to start attacks IN THE FIRST HALF. If I still had the match saved on my sky box I could literally record them and show you them - they were in the first half and before the penalty.

Fair enough, I am happy to accept when I am wrong in terms of defensive work.

but as an attacking force around THEIR box and in their half I am not wrong as he did very little. On multiple occasions he blindly jogged to his wing and they passed the ball slowly behind him.

but as I said he grew into the game and that is awesome, but I think moutinho needs a break as he is bang out of form

 

[bigbadwolftoo]

We are average.

I don't think we are that good to be honest. We have a very unbalanced team and squad with some very good players but not enough who are needed to do the basics very well for their position (full backs, striker and box to box midfielder(s)).

We are in a fight to not get involved in a relegation scrap, not much else.......we need some action in the transfer window to make things more confortable and a change in attitude in thinking we can do well by just defending when we have the lead or for 90mins aginst far superior opponents IMHO.

By the way Dendonker and Otasowie at least do the basics of box to box midfielders; no others do this in this squad IMHO. Neves and Mourinho are good players in their own way, but lack the 'presence/power' needed somewhere in midfield...especially if you want to just defend for long periods of a game.

 

[rg4352]

Fair enough, I am happy to accept when I am wrong in terms of defensive work.

but as an attacking force around THEIR box and in their half I am not wrong.

No your right - about their box - in their half he was the main reason we got anywhere in it the first half, with him dribbling it out of around our penalty box and into their half, but you can change the goalposts all you like to suit whatever. This is the problem I have with stats - you can sit there and say he had no shots and no assists till the cows come home - and you’d be right. However just because the stats don’t show he was scoring and assisting every 5 mins does not mean he did nothing - and this is what ****es me off - because it’s wrong.

He helped Semedo out of the mire a few times yesterday, no one seemed to mention that though, which is bizarre because there were plenty of people complaining about how he offers Semedo/anyone no help defensively usually. Even I was shocked at how deep he was the first half, practically on Semedo’s toes, but then I saw how often he actually brought the ball out and into Brighton’s half with his dribbling, usually dragging 3-4 Brighton players with him, and thought actually that’s quality we could use more often.

It’s why I don’t understand why he’s told to defend set pieces or be in our box when defending, he should be hanging around waiting to be an outlet for when the ball comes out of the box.

He’s also great in the air/aerial duels - something I never knew he was good at till this season he leaps like a ******* salmon and gets his head on the ball a lot we should try and use that for our own set pieces/corners

 

[Leamwolf]

No your right - about their box - in their half he was the main reason we got anywhere in it the first half, with him dribbling it out of around our penalty box and into their half, but you can change the goalposts all you like to suit whatever. This is the problem I have with stats - you can sit there and say he had no shots and no assists till the cows come home - and you’d be right. However just because the stats don’t show he was scoring and assisting every 5 mins does not mean he did nothing - and this is what ****es me off - because it’s wrong.

He helped Semedo out of the mire a few times yesterday, no one seemed to mention that though, which is bizarre because there were plenty of people complaining about how he offers Semedo/anyone no help defensively usually. Even I was shocked at how deep he was the first half, practically on Semedo’s toes, but then I saw how often he actually brought the ball out and into Brighton’s half with his dribbling, usually dragging 3-4 Brighton players with him.

Good to see we have found common ground hahaha we are both right lol

but I want my attackers to attack, he is not having many touches compared to Neto or podence and that is the starting point for me. The rest I agree can be used to paint a picture that may not be entirely fair, but they are the measure of a winger.

I did put in the stat laden post how many Arial duals he won and out shone others in that respect, so I wasn’t focused on attacking him, same as I said he made one more tackle than Neto but Neto had 20 more interceptions and with someone like adama with his pace that is poor, he should be a lot closer with his pace to get interceptions.

my critiques of adama are from the fact he has all the physical ability and a good skill set in close quarters to beat a man/3 (haha) he doesn’t use them to his full potential and it is infuriating, but he needs to be judged on a higher level than others due to his ability and what he can deliver. We see or want to see him as this 50-75 million pound player but people judge him against a 20 year old Neto and podence, that isn’t right. His performances need to outshine them and he isn’t doing that. He should be leading the front wingers and setting the example and he isn’t doing it.

He looks like from last night the old adama is ready to Come back and that is exciting and awesome, but that is the player we should be expecting.

His lack of touches shows he isn’t doing enough movement into space or giving good options at the minute. That I am sure people cannot argue and it means he is not contributing as much as he should be able too for his ability.

I have said this isn’t all down to him, our new set up doesn’t suit him and our lack of attack minded players doesn’t help. like jota he Will probably flourish or be last season adama far more than he is now at another club

But he needs to do more himself while he is here

 

[rg4352]

Good to see we have found common ground hahaha we are both right lol

but I want my attackers to attack, he is not having many touches compared to Neto or podence and that is the starting point for me. The rest I agree can be used to paint a picture that may not be entirely fair, but they are the measure of a winger.

His lack of touches shows he isn’t doing enough movement into space or giving good options at the minute. That I am sure people cannot argue and it means he is not contributing as much as he should be able too for his ability.

I have said this isn’t all down to him, our new set up doesn’t suit him and our lack of attack minded players doesn’t help. like jota he Will probably flourish or be last season adama far more than he is now.

But he needs to do more himself while he is here

I agree, I’d love him to be running at defenders 24/7 but for reasons unknown Nuno’s mentality seems to be train/develop players to be trackers/defensive minded first and attack later, that’s not Traore’s issue, that’s Nunos. The fact that less than 5 mins before he won the penalty you saw Nuno giving him instruction to run at defenders more and press, frankly ****ed me off, it was literally like watching Nuno take a leash off him. I think this impacted Jota’s game massively, it’s hampered Neves game, and I’m worried about what it may do to Neto’s the way it’s going also, because he is starting to also have anonymous games as is Podence.

There’s only so many players you can have in a team with amazing attacking quality that all of a sudden seem to be 50/50 before you have to start thinking this isn’t about players being ****/underperforming - it’s about their instruction and how they are being told to play.

 

[Leamwolf]

I agree, I’d love him to be running at defenders 24/7 but for reasons unknown Nuno’s mentality seems to be train/develop players to be trackers/defensive minded first and attack later, that’s not Traore’s issue, that’s Nunos. The fact that less than 5 mins before he won the penalty you saw Nuno giving him instruction to run at defenders more and press, frankly ****ed me off, it was literally like watching Nuno take a leash off him. I think this impacted Jota’s game massively, it’s hampered Neves game, and I’m worried about what it may do to Neto’s the way it’s going also, because he is starting to also have anonymous games as is Podence.

There’s only so many players you can have in a team with amazing attacking quality that all of a sudden seem to be 50/50 before you have to start thinking this isn’t about players being ****/underperforming - it’s about their instruction and how they are being told to play.

I agree with so much of what you are saying there I really do.

my issue is we haven’t got that skill base or attack mindedness in the squad in players who are ready to start in the midfield. And that is why players look devoid of ideas, form and confidence at the minute as they weren’t bad players last season and are playing well for their countries this season.

This is where it is nunos fault, he agrees the transfers and the style of play. People need to stop blaming injuries, we have the smallest squad in the league by choice, not because our owners don’t want to invest. All nuno needed to do was compromise a little bit after the longes season in history and add three players i the positions we all know we needed and we would have been fine even with the current injuries. One of the players Marcal is a career sick note, so it should have been factored in when he signed and not a surprise he breaks after 2/3 games.

People need to see the issues we have are stemming from nuno, we all love him and appreciate what he has done.
But he has failed twice before to change away from his defensive style and failed. He didn’t need to change our style, just add better players, who told him we had to change? We the fans didn’t, we just wanted to upgrade the players for that system we enjoyed and gave us the best days in recent memory.

 

[rg4352]

I agree with so much of what you are saying there I really do.

my issue is we haven’t got that skill base or attack mindedness in the squad in players who are ready to start in the midfield. And that is why players look devoid of ideas, form and confidence at the minute as they weren’t bad players last season and are playing well for their countries this season.

This is where it is nunos fault, he agrees the transfers and the style of play. People need to stop blaming injuries, we have the smallest squad in the league by choice, not because our owners don’t want to invest. All nuno needed to do was compromise a little bit after the longes season in history and add three players i the positions we all know we needed and we would have been fine even with the current injuries. One of the players Marcal is a career sick note, so it should have been factored in when he signed and not a surprise he breaks after 2/3 games.

People need to see the issues we have are stemming from nuno, we all love him and appreciate what he has done.
But he has failed twice before to change away from his defensive style and failed. He didn’t need to change our style, just add better players, who told him we had to change? We the fans didn’t, we just wanted to upgrade the players for that system we enjoyed and gave us the best days in recent memory.

Yep it’s why I’d love us to get a ball carrying midfielder, so many times I see Traore create space by drawing defenders to him, with literally no one there, because Neves/Moutinho are still sat on the defenders knees, apart from on occasion Semedo who makes a run around him, but then leave ourselves open on that side on a counter if we lose possession, makes me want to pull my hair out lol

 

[Leamwolf]

Yep it’s why I’d love us to get a ball carrying midfielder, so many times I see Traore create space by drawing defenders to him, with literally no one there, because Neves/Moutinho are still sat on the defenders knees, apart from on occasion Semedo who makes a run around him, but then leave ourselves open on that side on a counter if we lose possession, makes me want to pull my hair out lol

The reason we don’t have one is nuno, he had frank kessie on a plate and chose not to pay him the extra 15k if rumours are to be believed and if nuno really wanted it do you really believe Jorge wouldn’t have pulled a gem out for his longest client and close friend?

his fixation with a rapidly aging moutinho who is killing plays with slow passing and ones tha bounce when they don’t need to speaks volumes.

 

[The Runner]

So every pundit, ex pro and writer can’t see the foul.

There is no concern with the number of people who don’t see the invisible non existent foul, the concern are the people who want to see a foul when no one who has played the game at prem and International standard did. Even our own Matt Murray (our best keeper in modern times) couldn’t see it and said it was a bad call.

If that had happened against us we would be furious and screaming about how we have been screwed over again.

we have all gone after the greasy one and united for going down too easily and making a meal out of a brush in a contact sport. One of our own has done it and this time he wasn’t punished like the Southampton attempt so i am sorry we can’t be hypocrites like dean smith and the villa fans we are better than that as a fan base

I think you need to let it go. You've repeated yourself about three times and I understood the first.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I think you need to let it go. You've repeated yourself about three times and I understood the first.

Yup, continual repetition isn't likely to change any minds.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Except it looks very much to me that he gets his foot trodden on. Referee did give the foul for a push though.

Thats because it was a push,plain and simple,it may be soft, but thats the game nowadays,Grealish gets a dozen a game but hes a god,one of ours gets one and its cheating, or never a foul,if you cant beat em join em, and support our lads

 

[gullykular]

A tactical look at yesterday’s game. Talking an odd game full of goals, ‘negative’ substitutions and a lack of options

 

[Black Coffee]

This game reminded me of Braga away so much

I agree.

I think like the Braga game you have to give Brighton credit for changing tactics and upping the tempo.

On the flip side clearly we should of controlled the game better. I know we had a lot of youngsters out there but Patricio, Coady, Saiss, Neves and especially Moutinho I would expect better from them.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

can`t believe we can`t even defend hoof balls down the field.last 3 games we panic every time.
v.brighton neves and traore both go for a header,both miss it and we give away a stupid pen.
also we have to resort to having 3 goalies in the squad, for a prem side!

 

[TrueWolf]

Agree with this post 100% & has been my biggest issue all along, as you say with the added question sometimes about defensive negativity. I like all of the players but surely looking at the bench last night night says everything.
Got to be honest, whenever a player is mentioned as a potential transfer target I also find myself looking at their height (as well as well as goals scored and age)! Crazy, but I genuinely believe that we have height issues in the team and worry every corner or free kick. When we play, Neto, Podence, Mou & Neves, I see the opposition just simply winning every Ariel challenge.
LOL I’m not advocating a team of basket ball Players but do think it is a bit of advantage if the opposition has lots of taller players. Missing Raul, obviously makes this situation worse.
Not sure if anyone else feels the same about height? Or is this not a major issue for fans?

I agree,it has crossed my mind as well thatheight might be a problem at the moment. I think it is emphasised more currently as Boly, Raul and Donk are all out.

And I definitely think it has played a part in the last few games. Would have liked OO to have come on sooner against Brighton while we were on top for this very reason.

 

[Eastern Wolf]

Or the one time we benefitted from awful officiating..... that was never a foul on ait nouri..... it was frankly pathetic how he went down under less than a breeze tickled his shoulder.

In the current game it was a foul. Like it or not. Surprised ref called it though cos we never get such calls. The penalty too. Thought these types of calls were reserved for the "top 6" teams.

 

[Leamwolf]

The Traore one was a pen every year ever, he took the man down without the ball, the player even stayed on the ground punching the deck and that makes it a slam dunk, the defence has rested your honour penalty.

 

[Contrarian]

The Traore one was a pen every year ever, he took the man down without the ball, the player even stayed on the ground punching the deck and that makes it a slam dunk, the defence has rested your honour penalty.

That was the strangest thing about the match: a Premier League match with not one, but two penalties that would have been clear penalties even 50 years ago! Probably the only time it's happened this season.

Another one where the ref did a decent job overall. Made easier by two teams not going heavy on the play acting, of course.

 

[reanswolf]

Yep it’s why I’d love us to get a ball carrying midfielder, so many times I see Traore create space by drawing defenders to him, with literally no one there, because Neves/Moutinho are still sat on the defenders knees, apart from on occasion Semedo who makes a run around him, but then leave ourselves open on that side on a counter if we lose possession, makes me want to pull my hair out lol

Ive got no hair to pull except from my ears, nose, and **** but lets not go there -.
But this frailty (as people know) sends me absolutely insane.

Its bizare how some people see this as blatantly as we do, or that some just don;t feel it is a weakness.

Thats the beauty of football I guess. To me, we would be so much better (maybe 30%) if we obtained such a midfielder.

 

[rg4352]

Ive got no hair to pull except from my ears, nose, and **** but lets not go there -.
But this frailty (as people know) sends me absolutely insane.

Its bizare how some people see this as blatantly as we do, or that some just don;t feel it is a weakness.

Thats the beauty of football I guess. To me, we would be so much better (maybe 30%) if we obtained such a midfielder.

Haha in fairness reans, the way this season is going, I’m probably not going to have any left to pull shortly!

It does worry me how blatantly obvious some of these things are and have been for a while and yet aren’t addressed, I for one do not want to see Nuno leave, but I’m also getting more and more frustrated at how some of these weaknesses aren’t looking to be addressed. He has enough in the bank though for me for us to give him time to try and evolve the defensive strategy we seem to favour so..... Unless we lose against WBA in which case all bets are off!

 

[Contrarian]

Haha in fairness reans, the way this season is going, I’m probably not going to have any left to pull shortly!

It does worry me how blatantly obvious some of these things are and have been for a while and yet aren’t addressed, I for one do not want to see Nuno leave, but I’m also getting more and more frustrated at how some of these weaknesses aren’t looking to be addressed. He has enough in the bank though for me for us to give him time to try and evolve the defensive strategy we seem to favour so..... Unless we lose against WBA in which case all bets are off!

They weren't addressed presumably because although these things were obvious, we got enough good results. And even if we did sometimes look a disjointed mess for 3 or 4 matches, we would then play really well so all the problems get forgotten.

"It's results driven" as the cliche goes. I confess, everytime somebody has said how they would like us entertain a bit more, I'd be replying "Like Leeds...who are lower than us in the table". But now they are above us. Just a little example, but as long as league position is OK, you can get away with anything.

As well as WBA, the other one is donating a first win of the season to Sheff Utd. Two of the worst teams the Premier League has ever seen. Sheff Utd one of the worst of all time. One win between them in near half a season, yet you just know that they will win at least one of the 3 matches we have left to play against them.