Borderline sackable

[TheConcourse]

I mean as a personality around the group literally every player talks about it, on field none of the goals were down to him not organising last night our midfield just played like 11 year olds

So he’s in a no lose situation. None of the goals are his fault and he isn’t responsible for organising the team. All on the midfielders.

Sorry Wolfie, everyone is accountable. Defence has been a car crash for most of the season, totally bailed out by an unbelievable Sa. No coincidence that Sa’s form has started to drop the last few weeks and we’re getting slapped.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

So he’s in a no lose situation. None of the goals are his fault and he isn’t responsible for organising the team. All on the midfielders.

Sorry Wolfie, everyone is accountable. Defence has been a car crash for most of the season, totally bailed out by an unbelievable Sa. No coincidence that Sa’s form has started to drop the last few weeks and we’re getting slapped.

100% agree defenders are not good enough as individuals, but if you play 3 CMs who don't progress the ball brilliantly and they also can't stop midfield runners....

 

[WickedWolfie]

I know Neves is everyones idol,but come on he was awful last night and culpable for at least 2/3 goals
He did absolutely zero all game and in turn let the back line come under so much heat
The other two werent much better granted,but to blame it all on Coady is garbage
He may not be the fastest or most talented but he is a decent CB and leader, he cant be held responsible for the midfield and back line being abject on this occasion

He had a poor game undoubtedly. I do question how fit he is.

 

[WickedWolfie]

View attachment 27893

View attachment 27885
First goal: Coady miles behind the play. Allows Foden to get three touches and play a pass between him and Jonny to a rushing De Bruyne.

If he's in line with Boly, that ball doesn't get played.
No communication from Coady with Neves and Jonny.

Second goal:

View attachment 27886
View attachment 27887

Neves and Coady both run to Foden. Coady breaks the defensive line and creates the gap. Zero communication.

Fourth goal:
It's our boy Coady again sat too deep because he's got no confidence in his pace. Then caught flat footed.

View attachment 27890View attachment 27889

Fifth goal:
Where's the offside trap?
View attachment 27892


**** poor from our communicator, leader, marshaller of our defence.

As I said, the midfield didn't cover themselves in glory, but that defensive line is a shambles on all 5 goals last night.

I haven't always agreed with you but that evidence is pretty convincing.

 

[WolfLing]

Our central midfield and central defence were all poor last night.

They were made to look even worse by very good players, who could probably still find space on the Steve Bull concourse.

As long as we have been in the Premier League, we have never tried to play with an offside trap.

 

[TheConcourse]

100% agree defenders are not good enough as individuals, but if you play 3 CMs who don't progress the ball brilliantly and they also can't stop midfield runners....

Agree. There’s a fundamental structure problem in this team. It was built to play a very specific way.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

I said on the other thread Fosun have unforgivably allowed a group of senior players to all go past their sell by dates together. There has been absolutely no effective succession planning. The evolution we saw under Nuno will now have to be revolution under Lage.

 

[Huyton W88lvo]

Rather than sitting back and inviting pressure we attempted to play a higher line . It failed miserably . However I fear the old system has been totally found out as the press against us is easy as we are so deep. We are the only team who really plays a deep lying centre half who is so deep because of his lack of pace . I love Coady because of the attributes he brings to the team but if we are to move to a back 4 with dynamic wingbacks we need an outstanding quick dominant centre back alongside Kilman in my opinion.

 

[TheConcourse]

Rather than sitting back and inviting pressure we attempted to play a higher line . It failed miserably . However I fear the old system has been totally found out as the press against us is easy as we are so deep. We are the only team who really plays a deep lying centre half who is so deep because of his lack of pace . I love Coady because of the attributes he brings to the team but if we are to move to a back 4 with dynamic wingbacks we need an outstanding quick dominant centre back alongside Kilman in my opinion.

Agree word for word.

I’m not anti-Coady, and this idea that we can flip to a back 3 and change system excites me. But I don’t think we have one CB who can cope in a four (perhaps Kilman like you say). It definitely isn’t Coady. No way.

If Jeff is serious he needs to spend the Neves money on a proper CB. Not someone with potential. A proper CB that gives the rest of this team confidence to get higher up the pitch.

 

[JOSWolf]

Our central midfield and central defence were all poor last night.

They were made to look even worse by very good players, who could probably still find space on the Steve Bull concourse.

As long as we have been in the Premier League, we have never tried to play with an offside trap.

I thought some of our players went missing in action last night. Man City are an excellent side but I watched Aston Villa play an equally excellent side in Liverpool the previous night and they made a far better fight of it than us last night. As good as Man City are I thought we looked a shambles at times last night with players all over the place, hardly and pressing or getting tackles in etc. The midfield were missing in action and some of the defending was comical. We were very lucky they didnt put 8 past us last night.

 

[Bankswolf The Third]

I would love to see the other 19 teams formation and how many of them played people out of defensive position against the best team in England.

Saying that Chiquinho is class

 

[Loefah]

Whole performance was bizarre. I haven't seen us that out of shape and disjointed all season.

We've gone from a well oiled machine with Kilman and Semedo in imperious form on the right side to last night with Jonny and Chiquinho not really having a clue what position to be in and what to do defensively. Not a recipe for success when you're playing the best team in the country.

 

[Andi130]

I commend Bruno for trying something different. What I really can’t stand is how entitled our fan base is becoming. Sackable offence, have a look at yourself!

I'm all for trying something new. 442, 433..... maybe. Normal formations but with different players in naturalised positions. OK. Normal formations, but with square pegs etc.....It's that I'm struggling with a bit. Well that and the predictable in game changes that, barring Chelsea, rarely have an impact.

I don't know if I feel we should stick with Lage, or not. However this last 3rd of the season has been a **** show and I've seen little from the manager, or players to develop a sense of confidence we can move to the next level as a unit with any consistency. Defensively, for large parts, we've been very good, or very bad. The goals scored column tells us we continue to stagnate on the attacking side.

I also don't think many fans are questioning Lage based on a couple of games. As I've said, the last third of the season has been a bit of a car crash. Players are being questioned, as is the manager. It comes with territory. Its not been helped by the fact we've looked a bit tactically inept of late, and completely devoid of ideas to drag us out the slump we're in.

 

[WalsallWolf]

Personally, if we persist with the five, I think Jonny as that kind of roaming RCB/RB is not a bad shout at all. Likewise with Kilman on the opposite side. It at least gives the wing backs license to get right up the pitch and then wide forwards more narrow as a genuine front three.

 

[old wittonian]

I can't understand why we bought Hwang let alone brought him on as sub last night.
I'd have brought on Fabio.
As for team selection Bruno's could have played Donk in a back 3 with RAN and Jonny as wing backs. That would probably have meant playing Cundle in midfield and Chiquino out wide. The other alternative was to play Trincao in midfield or wide.
Rather him choose than me but on balance I think he got it wrong. I'd have played Donk in a 3 with Cundle in midfield with Chiquino wide right.

 

[arctic rime]

Bruno got it wrong in my view

 

[Norman Bell]

Agree. There’s a fundamental structure problem in this team. It was built to play a very specific way.

There has been an excellent show on Sky Atlantic all about the early days of the Los Angeles Lakers who went on to become a basketball dynasty. In an early episode the new Coach who was brought in specifically to change the way the team played gives the General Manager a list and says to him something like " Column A players I want to keep, Column B players I want to bring in who could play how we want and need to while Column C is the players who are here who will never be able to play the style we need them to as they are only able to play one way and they need to go "

When I watched the scene I immediately thought of what of Wolves especially the bit about " they can only play one way ".

 

[WalsallWolf]

the reality is Bruno just isn’t very good

You could well but right, but a different manager will just bring the same problems anyway.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Rather than sitting back and inviting pressure we attempted to play a higher line . It failed miserably . However I fear the old system has been totally found out as the press against us is easy as we are so deep. We are the only team who really plays a deep lying centre half who is so deep because of his lack of pace . I love Coady because of the attributes he brings to the team but if we are to move to a back 4 with dynamic wingbacks we need an outstanding quick dominant centre back alongside Kilman in my opinion.

The old Nuno system was showing cracks Pre-Raul injury, think we were at about a goal a game if memory serves before he went out.

 

[RMNottm]

First goal- KDB flicks the ball around Neves who stands still and watches him as he runs off and goes past Coady. Neves fault for not reacting not really Coady's, just not quick enough can't really blame him for that. Neves isn't quick enough either but he just stands still

Our goal - Coady interception starts it off

2nd goal - Coady follows Foden out and KDB drops into space behind as Neves doesn't follow him again. Absolutely clueless bit of midfield play there, literally no idea where the best player on the pitch is

3rd goal - Most shameful of the lot. Neves literally lets KDB walk past him with no foul and then run at back 3 - from there nothing anyone can do.

4th goal - Just brilliant football tbf, hard to really pick an individual error with that speed of ball movement. KDB unmarked again but can't see who was with him.

5th goal - Counter attack well executed, Neves does great to track back and nearly block cross to be fair to him. Jonny was deepest defender though not Coady.

Would love to hear where you are seeing Coady "break offside trap" 3x for goals? Literally can't see it once.

Just watch all the goals at .1/2 speed, like our spine really. Too slow.

Look we still lose; City are class; we work with what we have got. If we want to commit further forward we need some defensive players in centre who have pace and the stamina to play 90+ mins. Those players are not cheap! Three tortoises centrally just will not allow that type of play; maybe in walking football.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Just watch all the goals at .1/2 speed, like our spine really. Too slow.

Look we still lose; City are class; we work with what we have got. If we want to commit further forward we need some defensive players in centre who have pace and the stamina to play 90+ mins. Those players are not cheap! Three tortoises centrally just will not allow that type of play; maybe in walking football.

Yeah, one thing inexcusable for me was the lack of physicality. Got to hit City when they get ball like Palace do

 

[Saltyjim]

Such a massive contrast between the 2 performances against City this year. At their place even with 10 men our defence was excellent and were beaten by a terrible refs decision.
Much was made last night of City's injuries in defence but I didn't hear much mention of Semedo and Kilman being out for the season and Saiss not being fit. Whilst the latter hasn't been great since the AFCON, before Christmas our settled back 6 was churning out good performance week after week.
To be fair City had what I would consider to be their best top 6 on the pitch last night, but we were so open so many times it was a hard watch. The other thing that was painful was our inability to beat their high press. Turned the ball over time and time again.

 

[TheConcourse]

Such a massive contrast between the 2 performances against City this year. At their place even with 10 men our defence was excellent and were beaten by a terrible refs decision.
Much was made last night of City's injuries in defence but I didn't hear much mention of Semedo and Kilman being out for the season and Saiss not being fit. Whilst the latter hasn't been great since the AFCON, before Christmas our settled back 6 was churning out good performance week after week.
To be fair City had what I would consider to be their best top 6 on the pitch last night, but we were so open so many times it was a hard watch. The other thing that was painful was our inability to beat their high press. Turned the ball over time and time again.

Although semi-encouraging to see us try. I’d like to see us try and be positive and fail with effort against the top sides - or any side.

The Palace and Brighton games are good examples. Their press killed us too.

At the very least this stuff creates data points to show Jeff which members of the team are going to make the grade if we try to evolve into more of a possession based side.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

I thought some of our players went missing in action last night. Man City are an excellent side but I watched Aston Villa play an equally excellent side in Liverpool the previous night and they made a far better fight of it than us last night. As good as Man City are I thought we looked a shambles at times last night with players all over the place, hardly and pressing or getting tackles in etc. The midfield were missing in action and some of the defending was comical. We were very lucky they didnt put 8 past us last night.

I agree some players went missing and yes we could have lost more heavily
That said i thought Liverpool were way below their best against Villa ,and no where near the level City were at
If Liverpool play like that against us i fancy us taking something,but they wont and we will get done again lol

 

[Munro Munro]

100% absolutely baffling some of the responses on here, you'd think Chiquinho had a bad game.

SECONDED

 

[steve vena]

I thought he did great but playing him at wingback against Phil foden was madness. Should have been in a front 3.

 

[kinyo298]

Chiquinho was ok last night, just ok.Nothing special. On occasions he looked naive.Plenty to come from the lad but Rome wasnt built in a day.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Chiquinho was ok last night, just ok.Nothing special. On occasions he looked naive.Plenty to come from the lad but Rome wasnt built in a day.

was on a breakfast cereal advert

 

[lostwolf]

First goal- KDB flicks the ball around Neves who stands still and watches him as he runs off and goes past Coady. Neves fault for not reacting not really Coady's, just not quick enough can't really blame him for that. Neves isn't quick enough either but he just stands still

Our goal - Coady interception starts it off

2nd goal - Coady follows Foden out and KDB drops into space behind as Neves doesn't follow him again. Absolutely clueless bit of midfield play there, literally no idea where the best player on the pitch is

3rd goal - Most shameful of the lot. Neves literally lets KDB walk past him with no foul and then run at back 3 - from there nothing anyone can do.

4th goal - Just brilliant football tbf, hard to really pick an individual error with that speed of ball movement. KDB unmarked again but can't see who was with him.

5th goal - Counter attack well executed, Neves does great to track back and nearly block cross to be fair to him. Jonny was deepest defender though not Coady.

Would love to hear where you are seeing Coady "break offside trap" 3x for goals? Literally can't see it once.

You and your facts.

 

[VancouverWolf]

The big question is where Jeff wants to see us this time next year.

Obviously he’d want us to play better and win more games but I wonder what, if anything, he does to make that happen. Has he still got faith in Bruno?
I‘d like to see us play at least as well as we did two years ago.

 

[lostwolf]

Agree. There’s a fundamental structure problem in this team. It was built to play a very specific way.

It's brittle, like the recruitment strategy.

 

[Fifty Niner]

Such a massive contrast between the 2 performances against City this year. At their place even with 10 men our defence was excellent and were beaten by a terrible refs decision.
Much was made last night of City's injuries in defence but I didn't hear much mention of Semedo and Kilman being out for the season and Saiss not being fit. Whilst the latter hasn't been great since the AFCON, before Christmas our settled back 6 was churning out good performance week after week.
To be fair City had what I would consider to be their best top 6 on the pitch last night, but we were so open so many times it was a hard watch. The other thing that was painful was our inability to beat their high press. Turned the ball over time and time again.

Were we ever that good when teams pressed us, first PL season aside?We’ve become a tired and aimless unit in the latter stages of this season.

 

[WWFC4EVA]

It's brittle, like the recruitment strategy.

There's a recruitment strategy?!!!

 

[lostwolf]

There's a recruitment strategy?!!!

Haha, yeah: rely almost exclusively on the agent who admittedly helped us get where we are, and only look at young Portuguese attacking lads to get them in the PL shop window and presumably flip them when the time is right. No looking at the lower leagues or at higher priced proven players for the important positions.

 

[WWFC4EVA]

Haha, yeah: rely almost exclusively on the agent who admittedly helped us get where we are, and only look at young Portuguese attacking lads to get them in the PL shop window and presumably flip them when the time is right. No looking at the lower leagues or at higher priced proven players for the important positions.

I guess it's worked up to a point up until now, I'm convinced however, it will bite us on the **** eventually!

 

[Rhoswolf]

The big question is where Jeff wants to see us this time next year.

Obviously he’d want us to play better and win more games but I wonder what, if anything, he does to make that happen. Has he still got faith in Bruno?
I‘d like to see us play at least as well as we did two years ago.

The bigger question is whether Jeff is capable of delivering where he/Fosun want to "see us this time next year" and unless it's a mega-struggle, I sincerely doubt it.

 

[Wagstaffe Was Magic]

The day Bruno picked to ‘come out’ was definitely the wrong day!

We have been very competitive with City any time we played them since we came up!!

It’s so obvious, that you have to make exceptions for the likes of City and Liverpool…. We can’t go toe to toe with them.

It’s madness!

It’s even madder to go toe to toe with them while putting out an experimental defence with players out of position!!! Deary me!

I have great concerns about Bruno and his judgment!!
His dealings with Hoever were a disgrace. If Hoever was an older pro just going through the motions, fair enough. But a young kid, starting out, with fragile confidence who needs to be supported by his manager, well that’s a different story !!

I’m not convinced…. In fact I’m for looking elsewhere!