8 Championship players started

[Purple Ronnie]

Hardly a surprise we were so poor when 8 members of the championship squad started the game yesterday is it. With 2 others on the bench and SEB and Edwards still to come back, Keogh still at the club there lies the problem. QPR have refreshed their squad more than us and it's there 1st season in this league!

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

QPR can offer 80k a week. We can't.

 

[Jamesjh89]

God this reminds me of 2 seasons ago shutup!

 

[KiwiWolf]

Go away PR.

 

[Oxford_Wolf]

Players like Hennesey, Jarvis, Berra, have undoubtedly improved over the last two seasons, but we have failed to supply strength in depth to cover defence. Players like Hamill and Milias are underused and we really should have signed a defensive midfielder and a left back in the window.

 

[Wolf Pack leader]

QPR can offer 80k a week. We can't.

This is true but we have had 6 transfer windows to improve the 1st XI and have only added MIO 4 better players Dotle, Fletcher, O'Hara and Johnson.

They have done better in 1

 

[luckyjim]

Paying wages of £65,000 (Barton) a week isn't as expensive as it seems as it equals £3,380,000 a year. For a club with even mild premier league aspirations it's affordable. It's a scandal that we haven't improved the defence as much as we should have.

 

[BB Wolf]

Nearly every player in the Premier league has played at a lower level just because the likes of Foley, Henessey,Jarvis etc were with us in the Championship does not mean they are not now established Premier League players.
Had we been relegated they are the players we would have lost to other PL teams
I can accept that you may feel we could have been more proactive in the transfer market but nearly all of the players who put on such a pitiful display yesterday can hold their own at this level on most occasions

 

[BB Wolf]

Paying wages of £65,000 (Barton) a week isn't as expensive as it seems as it equals £3,380,000 a year. For a club with even mild premier league aspirations it's affordable. It's a scandal that we haven't improved the defence as much as we should have.

I agree with this at one level but one of the hallmarks of our fantastic achievements over the last few seasons has been the dressing room spirit and the fact that new acquisitions are embedded in so quickly indicates they are signed up to our ethos

A couple of Billy Big egos on considerably higher wages than the majority of their team mates could destroy the last few years progress

Has everyone forgotten what McCarthy inherited and was has happened to us since he arrived?

I was livid yesterday but the last 5 years have been the most successful of the last 30 ~yes the Turner/Bully era was great but overall underachieved we have to continue trusting the 3 M's to get the majority of off and on field decisions spot on

 

[JOSWolf]

The frustrating thing for me is that we are now in our third season in the prem but yesterday we looked like a side who was playing its first game in the prem and QPR looked like Barca! I would have hoped by this stage we would have better technical players but it appears we lack this and the players we do have with technique, flair and good ability on the ball never get a look in!

 

[WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax]

It's a case of how you can use and misuse statistics. Of these 8 Championship players Hennessey, Berra, Ward, Jarvis and Vokes are full internationals with Henry having been in provisional England squads, Kightly in U21 squads and Elokobi has been out with Cameroon IIRC. Bar Vokes & Kites they've all now played 50+ Prem games now too, if we were to be relegated a lot of them would be targeted by Premiership teams as signings IMO.

I do agree we should've signed more players this summer but you can't doubt the quality of some of our so-called Championship players, they're some of our stronger performers.

 

[Sephiroth]

Is Roger Johnson a Championship player as well then? Pretty sure he made the step up when the likes of Stearman etc did....

Anybody who keeps plugging this rather poor argument can do one as far as im concerned. Those players were good enough to keep the team in the prem TWICE. They are Premier League standard players.

 

[The Weasel]

It was a bad day at the office. Get over it. The players will.

 

[luckyjim]

I agree with this at one level but one of the hallmarks of our fantastic achievements over the last few seasons has been the dressing room spirit and the fact that new acquisitions are embedded in so quickly indicates they are signed up to our ethos

A couple of Billy Big egos on considerably higher wages than the majority of their team mates could destroy the last few years progress

Has everyone forgotten what McCarthy inherited and was has happened to us since he arrived?

I was livid yesterday but the last 5 years have been the most successful of the last 30 ~yes the Turner/Bully era was great but overall underachieved we have to continue trusting the 3 M's to get the majority of off and on field decisions spot on

A lot of people on this forum seem to possess an uncanny insight into dressing room "team spirit". On yesterdays performance, evidence of team spirit seems very thin on the ground. And exactly how many of McCarthy's purchases have really been bedded in quickly since we were promoted? Milijas, Hamill, Van Damme, Mouyokolo, Halford.....Remember this is the 2011-12 season, not 2008-09. I think there's a bigger danger of our progress being halted by a refusal to be realistic about just what it takes to become established in the PL. I mean, how risky to buy premier league players of genuine class! So what if there are 1 or 2 egos in the dressing room. I would rather have a mean, hungry team as opposed to a bunch of $$$$$$s on an enid blyton adventure. Yes, Barton does have an ego, but he had more passion yesterday than our entire team of honest plodders put together. I suspect if i was in the Wolves dressing room, i'd get bored very quickly.

 

[SmokeyGB]

Hardly a surprise we were so poor when 8 members of the championship squad started the game yesterday is it.

Sorry but I'm sick of hearing this....

They are 2 season proven premiership players...last 2 seasons don't count do they ?

But yes - We should have strengthen the squad by more than 2 players (O'Hara was already here for 6 months)

 

[Danwolf]

They're not championship players, they are premier league players - or have I just imagined them playing in the premier league for the last 2 seasons?

 

[DEVIZESWOLVES]

They're not championship players, they are premier league players - or have I just imagined them playing in the premier league for the last 2 seasons?

Think it should read "Championship standard players, playing in the Premier league for 2 seasons too long"

 

[Waggy's Boots]

They're not championship players, they are premier league players - or have I just imagined them playing in the premier league for the last 2 seasons?

Aaaaahhh yes but we are Wolves fans and wouldnt want the facts to get in the way of a good old whinge now would we??

 

[Cassady]

The origin of players is an irrelevance and a complete Red Herring for me - Its the performance and tactics that is the issue from yesterday. Clearly QPR dominated the game with a three in the centre and ran the show. We probably should have put G-man in the centre to support Henry and O Hara and taken off Ward or Doyle but the danger was this would have been seen as a rather negative tactic and given the ability of Ward and Doyle at putting the ball in the net it may not have helped.

 

[WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax]

Ramsey, Bale, Walcott, Lescott & Cahill all came from the Championship. We don't have any on that level but can we put to bed the misnomer that where a player originates from somehow dictates their ability. If they'd been old players we'd signed from the Championship then fair enough but they were very young in the Championship, still on the up, and a lot of them are still progressing now. We signed Halford from the Premiership, look where he got us.

 

[JOSWolf]

I couldn't care less where our players came from but the simple fact for me is the likes of Elokobi, Henry, Vokes, Kightly are not good enough for this level of football. Kightly due to his clear lack of fitness. The other three are just not good enough. I also have doubts over Stearman who is far too inconsistent and the likes of Dave Edwards who is far too injury prone and just not good enough on the ball. We do seem to lack a lot of quality, technique and composure in our side, as QPR showed up yesterday, which is just not good enough for a side entering their third season in the prem. Look at Stoke as an example. They have progressed each season and invested in their squad well each window. Whilst we have got some decent players we simply haven't done enough in the transfer market for me.

 

[Wolves in Limerick]

Admittedly the comments seem to be more critical than on other occasions on which we have lost, but it really appears to be the same old ding dong. Some fans really do need to get a sense of perspective. So far this season I would argue that the team have performed well in 2 matches + 70 odd minutes of a 3rd. game (Spurs) and poorly in one. In a further match our forwards were poor but the remainder of the team played well (v Villa). I would suggest that we were mugged yesterday both by a team who are just begining to gell together and perhaps by our own over confidence. As managers get a chance to take stock of QPR they will have more time to evaluate where they have weaknesses, I would suggest that they are not as good a team or squad as Spurs. By the time we play them at Loftus Road Mick and his backroom staff will also have a greater sense of the weaknesses there to be exploited and while we may not win I expect we will expect to see a much improved performance. Our problem is that we are now facing into games against Liverpool and Newcastle, both of which will be difficult to get results from, so I expect after 7 games we may well be averaging a point per game.
Two big bug bears of mine are fans simply expecting us to get points by turning up for matches and the term "must win games". All games are must win games and no result, regardless of how poor a team may appear to be is going to be guaranteed. Some fans on MM highlighted how good QPR looked against Newcastle. Some were not prepared to listen or notice.

 

[DEVIZESWOLVES]

Admittedly the comments seem to be more critical than on other occasions on which we have lost, but it really appears to be the same old ding dong. Some fans really do need to get a sense of perspective. So far this season I would argue that the team have performed well in 2 matches + 70 odd minutes of a 3rd. game (Spurs) and poorly in one. In a further match our forwards were poor but the remainder of the team played well (v Villa). I would suggest that we were mugged yesterday both by a team who are just begining to gell together and perhaps by our own over confidence. As managers get a chance to take stock of QPR they will have more time to evaluate where they have weaknesses, I would suggest that they are not as good a team or squad as Spurs. By the time we play them at Loftus Road Mick and his backroom staff will also have a greater sense of the weaknesses there to be exploited and while we may not win I expect we will expect to see a much improved performance. Our problem is that we are now facing into games against Liverpool and Newcastle, both of which will be difficult to get results from, so I expect after 7 games we may well be averaging a point per game.
Two big bug bears of mine are fans simply expecting us to get points by turning up for matches and the term "must win games". All games are must win games and no result, regardless of how poor a team may appear to be is going to be guaranteed. Some fans on MM highlighted how good QPR looked against Newcastle. Some were not prepared to listen or notice.

They cant see the weaknesses in our own squad that he see's every day, so the chances of picking up on other teams is slim lol

 

[goldeneyed]

As always there is a danger of knee-jerk reactions after a poor defeat. We are on a good path despite yesterday. However, apart from Johnson there has been no real improvement to the squad - O'Hara having been already with us on loan for the second half of last season. I'm a bit shocked by what could be seen as a kind of complacency during the summer when you consider how narrowly we escaped relegation.

It's not good enough to say that the players are more seasoned now and we will improve accordingly. More could and should have been done this summer on the transfer front - it is as simple as that. The Premier league and success and failure in it depend on fine margins. Despite the addition of Johnson who has made a difference we lack class throughout the squad. Another couple of decent signings would have made a very big difference imv. There will always be injuries and suspensions. Of course it is a blow to lose Fletcher/Ebanks-Blake but other clubs seem to cope with much more serious injury problems.

My concern is the way MM has continued to ignore Milijas in particular and also it now seems, Hammill. They are probably the most skilful players on the books and without them the creativity in the team is restricted to whatever O'Hara can conjure in midfield plus the odd speedy burst from Jarvis. Sorry but not good enough at this level.

I don't believe we will get relegated but I can see yet another struggle for survival. If that is the case then it will confirm that after three seasons in the Prem the club have not really adjusted to the financial input required to take a step forward in a very competitive league. If we are not careful all the hard work of recent years could be set back disastrously if we get unlucky on injuries as the current squad depth doesn't add up to much imv.

Hennessey, Johnson, O'Hara, Jarvis, Doyle and Fletcher are fine. Foley is pretty good too. The others are very useful squad players but not first teamers for any club with aspirations to keep out of the drop zone. MM needs to raise his sights. There may be a good spirit among the 'lads' but he should open his eyes to the lack of quality and depth in the squad - something he has occasionally alluded to.

I would like to see at least one major addition (shoe-in first teamer) this January - ideally a central midfielder unless Guedioura or Milijas are given a proper chance to show that they can do the business- which seems unlikely given MM's seemingly blinkered approach.

 

[OldWolvesfart]

I think most of us were amazed to say the least that we did not sign or loan at least 2 more players before the window closed.
The club has made it clear they are not going to play the high wages game that has and will bring clubs near or into bankruptcy.
Some people have to realise what this club is trying to do and do it steadily within limits without jeopardising the future of the club but it looks as if they have left us to short of premiership quality for the first half of this season.

We had black day yesterday we have had many black days before but our aim this season is to stay in this league and improve on last season.
It may seem after the game yesterday that is not happening but this was game 5.
Sure we should shout about players that continuously play badly but to pick out one from todays game would be unfair there were many. There are a number of our players struggling to compete at this level and that shows but this is what we have to live with until we get the changes we need in January???.
We do need to make more use of what we have Milijias, Hammill etc. Mick will have to risk more players as games come up.
We have no natural replacement for Henry we do have the option of a 5 midfield and bring in Milijais. But the financial path the club has chosen has limited our buying and wages expenditure. We may well bring in a player or two on loan or otherwise in January.
If we see the same performance against Millwall or the game after then we really do have a problem. I don't expect it and I'm sure Mick won't either. Yesterday was a reality check for the team, Mick and us.

Back in the 1960's my brother gave up supporting Wolves and chose the new golden boys of football Chelsea. I stuck with Wolves. The top 4 or 5 teams have a lot of so called supporters like my brother and they can keep them and will till another set of golden boys come along.
It was a hard road to get back and stay in the premiership and the reality is the team we have is the team we should support until we can make any changes.

 

[Basingstoke Wolf]

Hardly a surprise we were so poor when 8 members of the championship squad started the game yesterday is it. With 2 others on the bench and SEB and Edwards still to come back, Keogh still at the club there lies the problem. QPR have refreshed their squad more than us and it's there 1st season in this league!

how many more time do our "championship players" nedd to keep us in the premier league before this pathetic label is dropped? if they are all championship players then we are all championship fans!

thankfully these players have far more fire in their bellies than the likes of you and your fellow soft centred fans who throw the towel in after every poor performance! you're embarrassing.

tell me, were andy thompson, robbie dennison & bully, division 4 players in your eyes?

go get some anti- depressants and we'll put you on suicide watch.

 

[awsworth wolf]

Back in the 1960's my brother gave up supporting Wolves and chose the new golden boys of football Chelsea. I stuck with Wolves. The top 4 or 5 teams have a lot of so called supporters like my brother and they can keep them and will till another set of golden boys come along.
It was a hard road to get back and stay in the premiership and the reality is the team we have is the team we should support until we can make any changes.

I remember this well from school, with loads of kids swapping teams almost weekly.
A few of us stayed loyal, me and another lad [wonder where he is now] with Wolves, 1 Newcastle, 1 Leeds ,1 Everton , and a few with f%'est[dirty word] and Derby.

 

[awsworth wolf]

how many more time do our "championship players" nedd to keep us in the premier league before this pathetic label is dropped? if they are all championship players then we are all championship fans!

thankfully these players have far more fire in their bellies -----

tell me, were andy thompson, robbie dennison & bully, division 4 players in your eyes?

This 100% , but wont go with the insults

 

[Basingstoke Wolf]

This 100% , but wont go with the insults

i appreciate where you're coming from - not slagging off fellow wolves fans is an admirable trait - perhaps i should be more tolerant of all the stupid comments that are made in the heat of the moment.

i'm not though, and i noticed the fans who were booing our (poorly performing) players during the game were the same fans who walked out way before the final whistle! the ones by me were anyway.

shame on me for staying to the bitter end.

"is there a fire drill, is there a fire drill"

 

[Basingstoke Wolf]

The origin of players is an irrelevance and a complete Red Herring for me - Its the performance and tactics that is the issue from yesterday. Clearly QPR dominated the game with a three in the centre and ran the show. We probably should have put G-man in the centre to support Henry and O Hara and taken off Ward or Doyle but the danger was this would have been seen as a rather negative tactic and given the ability of Ward and Doyle at putting the ball in the net it may not have helped.

im with you on the gued in mf, but to then follow that with ward or doyle off! hahaha.

ward needed to be put at left back after 10 mins where he should have started!

 

[BlackBully]

I think it's the clear lack of progression that winds most of us up. That team yesterday could've been the team that played in our first season in the Prem with the sort of investment that I expected.

In terms of quality against time spent in the Prem, you should've been swapping the teams around yesterday.

 

[Burton Wolf]

I think it's the clear lack of progression that winds most of us up. That team yesterday could've been the team that played in our first season in the Prem with the sort of investment that I expected.

In terms of quality against time spent in the Prem, you should've been swapping the teams around yesterday.

That my friend is a very valid point. But don't worry if things go wrong we can stare at an empty sparkling new North Bank where the people who used to sit there don't even like it.

 

[Basingstoke Wolf]

I think it's the clear lack of progression that winds most of us up. That team yesterday could've been the team that played in our first season in the Prem with the sort of investment that I expected.

In terms of quality against time spent in the Prem, you should've been swapping the teams around yesterday.

but the players themselves have progressed! we are a better team than we were 2 1/2 years ago!

if you pitted the 2008/09 wolves players against their 2011/12 counterparts, who hasn't improved?

kightley who has been crocked? craddock who is getting on a bit? keogh who is at leeds?

the rest to my mind have improved along with the quality of player we sign these days!

RJ, JO'H, fletch & Doyle to name but 4!

 

[bridgnorthwolf]

Stearman and Henry are Championship players, Kightly and Elokobi are League One players.

Ward, Jarvis and Hennessey are definitely Premier League players, as is Johnson who only came to the Premier League at the same time.....

Berra is just about a Premier League defender now too IMO.

Just because players have played outside the Premier League doesn't make them unable to become premier league players.

 

[Boss Hogg]

Unfortunately it was McCarthy's "championship" tactics which cost us yesterday. This has been coming for a few weeks - the formation was all wrong at Villa, we needed to have more men in midfield at Spurs and probably yesterday as well. Whilst many of the players have made the step up from championship to the Prem I'm still not convinced that Mick has.

 

[Deleted member 4008]

What cost us was MM messing about with the back four . And also him playing players that are not match fit ( Kightly) just baffles me at times the way MM moves players around in the team line up.

 

[BlackBully]

but the players themselves have progressed! we are a better team than we were 2 1/2 years ago!

if you pitted the 2008/09 wolves players against their 2011/12 counterparts, who hasn't improved?

kightley who has been crocked? craddock who is getting on a bit? keogh who is at leeds?

the rest to my mind have improved along with the quality of player we sign these days!

RJ, JO'H, fletch & Doyle to name but 4!

Going on yesterdays performance the team from 2008/09 would win! But that would be unfair, I think the team from 2011/12 would win but it would be pretty close. It certainly wouldn't have the difference of 3 years progression, which is what I would expect. More like 1, maybe 2 transfer windows worth of progression.

In fact, if I could've fast forwarded 3 seasons from 2008/09 and seen we still didn't have a left back I wouldn't have believed it. With Karl Henry still in midfield? Yeah, right! Hold on, it IS true, noooo!

 

[Basingstoke Wolf]

Going on yesterdays performance the team from 2008/09 would win! But that would be unfair, I think the team from 2011/12 would win but it would be pretty close. It certainly wouldn't have the difference of 3 years progression, which is what I would expect. More like 1, maybe 2 transfer windows worth of progression.

you're right, it would be unfair to judge our team on one performance v qpr - so dont do it!

again you're right that this hypothetical game would be close between the two identical teams - and you're right that the more experienced team fom today woul edge it!

throw in the signings of RJ, O'Hara, Hunt, Doyle, Fletch and perhaps Zubar then i would think the outcome would be far more obvious!

i think you expect too much! its taken 5 transfer windows to sign all of the above players - yet you dont think we have progressed any more than we should have after 1 or 2!

are you suggesting that by january 2010 we should have signed 6 or 7 new players who all regularly started in the first XI? - i think you expect too much!

 

[cannockwolves]

It is true that many of these players have come from the championship, I don't have a problem with where they come from. The problem is we could have picked up players to strengthen the squad. DJ campbel for £2m and that Scotish leftback that went to Rangers would all be better backup than what we have.

I would really like much better than those two, Everton picked up a couple from Europe, but we sat on our hands and did virtually nothing in the summer.

 

[BlackBully]

you're right, it would be unfair to judge our team on one performance v qpr - so dont do it!

again you're right that this hypothetical game would be close between the two identical teams - and you're right that the more experienced team fom today woul edge it!

throw in the signings of RJ, O'Hara, Hunt, Doyle, Fletch and perhaps Zubar then i would think the outcome would be far more obvious!

i think you expect too much! its taken 5 transfer windows to sign all of the above players - yet you dont think we have progressed any more than we should have after 1 or 2!

are you suggesting that by january 2010 we should have signed 6 or 7 new players who all regularly started in the first XI? - i think you expect too much!

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I expected! I'd say you expect too little! 1 player per transfer window when the whole team pretty much needed rebuilding? Not good enough IMO, remember, we only just squeaked safety last season.