7 consecutive seasons in PL

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Fosun are the best of the modern era, but to be fair it's not a particularly high bar. Unless you want to go back to the days of Jack Harris, to whom we owe infinitely more than Fosun, that only leaves three candidates.

Morgan's reign started well but will be remembered for the disastrous "double dip" relegation, and his prioritising the stadium over the squad. Sir Jack, while a brilliant man, philanthropist and Wolves icon, did not have the right temperament or strategic mind to run a Football club successfully or efficiently, let's be honest. That only really leaves Fosun, who win by default for fulfilling a target that should have been realised decades before for a club of Wolves' standing and history.

Yes, not really winning by default though is it? It's just winning. Hayward was a lovely philanthropist but also guilty of terrible nepotism, so much of his money was wasted. Morgan was a good businessman but suffered from hubris, basically imagining that if you could make a fortune from shooting fish in the property barrel, you could run a football club. So for the combination of good decision making and sensible investment we had to wait for Fosun. They may not be perfect, but we're being run by people who both want to invest and spend their money sensibly, so they are the best of the three.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Yes, not really winning by default though is it? It's just winning. Hayward was a lovely philanthropist but also guilty of terrible nepotism, so much of his money was wasted. Morgan was a good businessman but suffered from hubris, basically imagining that if you could make a fortune from shooting fish in the property barrel, you could run a football club. So for the combination of good decision making and sensible investment we had to wait for Fosun. They may not be perfect, but we're being run by people who both want to invest and spend their money sensibly, so they are the best of the three.

Nah it’s just all complete luck.

 

[Jefe]

Fosun “win by default” and yesterday Jeff was “incredibly lucky”. It’s almost like you have an agenda and can’t give any credit where it’s due

I suppose it was inevitable you would go ad-hom eventually. In that vein, maybe it's almost like you don't know how to respond in good faith to a narrative that is dissonant to your own, and so you find it easier to resort to belligerent black-and-white impugnation like the above, to conveniently put people in a box. It would go a long way to explaining the childish and boring slanging matches in which you often find yourself with a myriad of other posters.

I certainly wouldn't want to write off all the good bits as luck. Jeff's strength is in selling players. For instance, there is no luck in the sale of Nunes - Jeff leveraged Pep's misguided belief that Nunes was world-class to turn an unlikely profit on him. That's all credit to Jeff.

By God, was it good once upon a time. Neves, Jota, Patricio, Moutinho, ooh la la. Oh, but for "the Project" to return. They [Fosun] have given us some great memories...

What came before was nothing less than distilled magic, what came after has been impressive in its own, more modest way.

From this thread alone over the past 24 hours; doesn't look like not giving "any credit" where it's due, to me. I remember a time not so long ago when this forum was awash with "Fosun Out" comments and avatars - I never joined in with that sentiment. Let me make this simple. I was a massive fan of Fosun's ownership in the first half of it, and I am a big critic of it in the second, unashamedly. I am especially displeased with them and Jeff over the Lopetegui fiasco. If you expect me to offer equal amounts praise and criticism for their latter performance to pass your "agenda" litmus test, then you're up the wrong tree, friend.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I suppose it was inevitable you would go ad-hom eventually. In that vein, maybe it's almost like you don't know how to respond in good faith to a narrative that is dissonant to your own, and so you find it easier to resort to belligerent black-and-white impugnation like the above, to conveniently put people in a box. It would go a long way to explaining the childish and boring slanging matches in which you often find yourself with a myriad of other posters.




From this thread alone over the past 24 hours; doesn't look like not giving "any credit" where it's due, to me. I remember a time not so long ago when this forum was awash with "Fosun Out" comments and avatars - I never joined in with that sentiment. Let me make this simple. I was a massive fan of Fosun's ownership in the first half of it, and I am a big critic of it in the second, unashamedly. I am especially displeased with them and Jeff over the Lopetegui fiasco. If you expect me to offer equal amounts praise and criticism for their latter performance to pass your "agenda" litmus test, then you're up the wrong tree, friend.

You sound like Sunak, hiding behind big words hoping the masses don’t understand what you’re saying.

 

[Jefe]

You sound like Sunak, hiding behind big words hoping the masses don’t understand what you’re saying.

Thank you for proving my point. Use a dictionary if you're struggling.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I suppose it was inevitable you would go ad-hom eventually. In that vein, maybe it's almost like you don't know how to respond in good faith to a narrative that is dissonant to your own, and so you find it easier to resort to belligerent black-and-white impugnation like the above, to conveniently put people in a box. It would go a long way to explaining the childish and boring slanging matches in which you often find yourself with a myriad of other posters.




From this thread alone over the past 24 hours; doesn't look like not giving "any credit" where it's due, to me. I remember a time not so long ago when this forum was awash with "Fosun Out" comments and avatars - I never joined in with that sentiment. Let me make this simple. I was a massive fan of Fosun's ownership in the first half of it, and I am a big critic of it in the second, unashamedly. I am especially displeased with them and Jeff over the Lopetegui fiasco. If you expect me to offer equal amounts praise and criticism for their latter performance to pass your "agenda" litmus test, then you're up the wrong tree, friend.

How people are debating the bit in bold is beyond me.

Obviously the credit in the bank Fosun have from the excellent start to their ownership will differ from person to person. However, your view is one that the majority, both Wolves fans and non-Wolves fans would agree with.

 

[Sammy Chungs Tracksuit]

We were promoted in 1966/67 and got relegated in 1975/76 so that was 9 successive top flight seasons
.... but I only started watching in 1969/70 so I only saw 7 successive top flight seasons on my watch.
So on my 55 year watch, next season will only be the 2nd time I've seen 7 consecutive top flight seasons!

But we also had a 5 season run from 1977/78 to 1981/82 and another top flight season in 1983/84

So in my first 15 seasons of watching Wolves (1969/70 to 1983/84) I saw
- 13 seasons in the top flight
- 1 season where we were 2nd Division champions
- 1 season where we were 2nd Division runners up

I remember our run in the championship where a common theme from younger fans than me on this forum was that "we should be careful what we wish for" and that "our place is mid table championship". No! No! No!

I never once accepted that my beloved Wolves should not be in the top flight. For me we are now about where we ought to be in English football occasionally pushing for Europe in a good season, occasionally dallying with relegation in a bad season, dishing out a fair few defeats to some of the biggest clubs in the world but then losing the next week to a relegation straggler! That is the Wolves way!

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Bloody hell fellas it's like being on the news forum.

What are you even arguing about?

Fosun
Slightly shaky start
Unbelievable period under Nuno
Mistakes made and a lot of (their) money wasted
Now seem to be back on track.

That's what we all think isn't it?

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Thank you for proving my point. Use a dictionary if you're struggling.

Not struggling in the slightest, just chuckling at you trying to bamboozle your weak argument with words you think may confuse. It’s a common theme.

 

[Jefe]

Bloody hell fellas it's like being on the news forum. What are you even arguing about? Fosun:
-Slightly shaky start
-Unbelievable period under Nuno
-Mistakes made and a lot of (their) money wasted
-Now seem to be back on track.

That's what we all think isn't it?

Not really, no. "Mistakes" is a generous operative word, particularly regarding JL's exit, and the 'back on track' part really remains to be seen this Summer. It didn't feel back on track when Gary wanted a solitary loan deal for a striker in January and didn't get it (after shipping out two strikers, no less) - a failing that has arguably derailed the season. As I said earlier, he has excelled more in spite of Fosun than because of them.

 

[Jefe]

Not struggling in the slightest, just chuckling at you trying to bamboozle your weak argument with words you think may confuse. It’s a common theme.

If my tricksy words are so transparent, then a man of your intellect should have no problem seeing through them and dismantling my "weak argument", rather than asserting I have an agenda and making silly comparisons to Rishi Sunak. Now bore off.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

Not really, no. "Mistakes" is a generous operative word (particularly surrounding JL's exit), and the back on track part really does remain to be seen this Summer. It didn't feel back on track when Gary wanted a solitary loan deal in January and didn't get it, after shipping out two strikers. As I said earlier, he has excelled more in spite of Fosun than because of them.

What would you call it then? deliberate sabotage? gross misconduct? wilful negligence? and why would any of those apply?

 

[Jefe]

What would you call it then? deliberate sabotage? gross misconduct? wilful negligence? and why would any of those apply?

What happened with Lop in my opinion was no mistake, it was deception. For some of the other major events, such as sacking Nuno after one average season, to not sacking Lage until well after he had lost the dressing room, causing us spiraling to the foot of the table, to having to spaff all of the next Summer's transfer budget that Winter to avoid a relegation entirely of their own making... the word "mistake" seems underwhelming. They've owned the club for the best part of a decade now.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

If my tricksy words are so transparent, then a man of your intellect should have no problem seeing through them and dismantling my "weak argument", rather than asserting I have an agenda and making silly comparisons to Rishi Sunak. Now bore off.

I did dismantle it, you just don’t want to hear it so hid behind what I’m sure you think it’s your superior intellect. Unfortunately it failed as badly as your weak argument.

What times the next bus to “bore off?” I’ll grab a waterproof as looks like rain.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Not really, no. "Mistakes" is a generous operative word, particularly regarding JL's exit, and the 'back on track' part really remains to be seen this Summer. It didn't feel back on track when Gary wanted a solitary loan deal for a striker in January and didn't get it (after shipping out two strikers, no less) - a failing that has arguably derailed the season. As I said earlier, he has excelled more in spite of Fosun than because of them.

Yes, I mean I do think Shi was so determined to get Lopetegui to take the job to get him out of the hole he was in that he went into full on sales mode where he hid papered over the cracks until the deal was struck.

On the other hand we got O'Neil which turns out to be genius and I know you'll tell me that's down to Hobbs, but Hobbs is down to Shi and appointing good football people then stepping back is the main thing he should have learned.

 

[Jefe]

Yes, I mean I do think Shi was so determined to get Lopetegui to take the job to get him out of the hole he was in that he went into full on sales mode where he hid papered over the cracks until the deal was struck.

On the other hand we got O'Neil which turns out to be genius and I know you'll tell me that's down to Hobbs, but Hobbs is down to Shi and appointing good football people then stepping back is the main thing he should have learned.

I find this argument: "Jeff appointed Hobbs, and Hobbs appointed Gary, therefore Jeff takes credit." to only be helpful to an extent. We couldn't apply that argument to the players, for example. Jeff cannot really be blamed if a player (let's say, Fabio) turns out to be a failure - that's on the scouts, the technical director, the player himself, and indeed just plain old misfortune sometimes. He can however be blamed if the transfer fee (let's say, Fabio) was way over the odds for an unproven player and represented a risk, because that is his direct involvement.

There is a diminishing return of credit, or indeed blame, the further down you go and the more you pass decisions off to subordinates. Jeff deserves some credit for GON it's true, but when he played no direct role in the appointment (was not even in the country), the credit to him can only be indirect. Likewise, if Gary had turned out to be a failure, Hobbs would be getting it in the neck from me first, then Jeff to a lesser extent (for not being in the country to oversee the appointment).

It's not difficult to see why people think Jeff got more than a bit lucky with Gary in light of all this, but if it is the start of a string of canny upper-management decisions from Hobbs and himself going forward, then I will have no qualms softening my stance. I am an incrementalist however, so it needs to be more than just this. Gary has to be backed now.

 

[JOSWolf]

I am critical of Fosun and Shi but couldn’t have dreamt of seven successive seasons in the premier league in our long days in the championship.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

I am critical of Fosun and Shi but couldn’t have dreamt of seven successive seasons in the premier league in our long days in the championship.

That's the rub of it really. We could easily be Sheffield Wednesday

 

[JohnB]

I think it’s pretty simple:

- Fosun have given us the best season in Championship and best 6 seasons in the PL plus at least one to come that I can remember (and I’m over 50).

- Nuno and Mendes worked brilliantly for us, particularly in the early days.

- Sure we’ve made some more recent faux pas in managerial and transfer market and (with hindsight) wasted some money. Show me a PL club that hasn’t! This debate is like VAR or a round of golf - we only remember decisions against us or putts we missed.

- We appear to being run in a financially stable way, whilst willing to put money in and currently in Hobbs we trust. Prior to Fosun who was our record transfer Doyle and Heads-gone?

Can it be better both with a few better transfers or a different owner willing to upgrade stadium. Possibly - but it could have been a heck of a lot worse.

For me football is about creating memories and I’ll never forget the period I’ve shared with my family and how it has helped through some challenging times - Championship, Neves, Big 6 victories, United home QF, Europa League, Barcelona trip away.

Thank you for the journey so far. Here’s to the next chapter.

No disrespect to anyone with a different opinion. #UTW

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

As our name is now on the 2024/2025 Premier League Wikipedia page: knowing the fear we all had and the mess in terms of the managerial situation before a ball had even been kicked, to get a 7th consecutive season in the top flight is tremendous.

Well done lads and with Cunha back in good fashion, let’s hope we can finish off the season as well as we can.

 

[Bossworld]

This isn't meant to be a doom and gloom post, it's been a great run, but in one sense, it almost feels like we've regressed (given the first few season finishes under Nuno, progress in the cups, the run in Europe).

We always seem late to the party and then the entire world changes around us. I.e. if we'd made it into the Premiership (as was) in the 1990s when Jack Walker's millions were still enough to win a league title, or when Middlesbrough, Wigan, Birmingham etc. were winning domestic cups late 00s to early 10s. Hell, even Leicester's league title triumph came just before Nuno.

On the flip side, the landscape of staying in the Prem has changed around us. Norwich and Sheff Utd can't get a foothold when they come back up, and if there's no further support for EFL clubs forthcoming, we're the ones pulling the drawbridge up.

 

[WickedWolfie]

What happened with Lop in my opinion was no mistake, it was deception. For some of the other major events, such as sacking Nuno after one average season, to not sacking Lage until well after he had lost the dressing room, causing us spiraling to the foot of the table, to having to spaff all of the next Summer's transfer budget that Winter to avoid a relegation entirely of their own making... the word "mistake" seems underwhelming. They've owned the club for the best part of a decade now.

"One average season" which we've only out-performed once since....

 

[Starsky]

Fosun are about to be PL football club owners for the 7th season. And fair play to them for that.

We cannot operate with a squad size like this again. They need to behave like established top flight owners this Summer. No excuses.

 

[Fenrir_]

This isn't meant to be a doom and gloom post, it's been a great run, but in one sense, it almost feels like we've regressed (given the first few season finishes under Nuno, progress in the cups, the run in Europe).

We always seem late to the party and then the entire world changes around us. I.e. if we'd made it into the Premiership (as was) in the 1990s when Jack Walker's millions were still enough to win a league title, or when Middlesbrough, Wigan, Birmingham etc. were winning domestic cups late 00s to early 10s. Hell, even Leicester's league title triumph came just before Nuno.

On the flip side, the landscape of staying in the Prem has changed around us. Norwich and Sheff Utd can't get a foothold when they come back up, and if there's no further support for EFL clubs forthcoming, we're the ones pulling the drawbridge up.

We're in that position where we need a good season to challenge for Europe, and a bad season to risk being relegated. Making up the numbers (which is pretty much as good as it's going to get for a club like us), but it's not exciting for the fans and the dreams are just that, dreams. Guess it's better than struggling along in the Championship though

 

[Mancwolf56]

We're in that position where we need a good season to challenge for Europe, and a bad season to risk being relegated. Making up the numbers (which is pretty much as good as it's going to get for a club like us), but it's not exciting for the fans and the dreams are just that, dreams. Guess it's better than struggling along in the Championship though

Seriously ‘you guess it’s better than struggling in the Championship’

 

[Fenrir_]

Seriously ‘you guess it’s better than struggling in the Championship’

From a fun perspective as a fan, there isn't a great deal in where we were as a Championship side aiming for promotion to now, where the season is over with six games to go. Yes it's a much better position for the club to be in, but are you going to games with excitement about what might happen?

 

[StaffordWolf]

7 seasons in the league and still running with a paper thin squad. Clearly we don't have the finances to pay the wage bill for a proper squad. It has to change if we hope to compete. Even relegation battlers Forest has better options off the bench than us.

Europe would've come too soon next season anyway.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Not trying to dismiss 6 seasons in the Prem but it looks to me now that the 3 clubs coming up are likely to be the 3 clubs going back down the following season. The top 5 or 6 clubs are likely to be the top 5 or 6 clubs the following season. That puts us firmly now established in the middle 11 group. I'm just not sure we have the finances to build a side and a squad capable of attacking the top 6 anytime soon. After the Nuno heroics it is fair to say that for whatever reasons we have gone backwards and where we are now is possibly where we will be for the foreseeable future?

 

[wwbug]

6 years of Premier League money and the squad we have accumulated is not able to last a season , is unbalanced and has untried kids on the bench , Our bench would not be good enough for a Championship club . It really wouldn’t.
Why ?

 

[cannockwolves]

We should be aiming for top 6 next year with our two new striker options, GON, RAN and Neto all tied down to long deals. We can easily fund this with the money for Sasa and Silva swelling the coffers. Even Silva going for zilch will save millions. Add to this the money rolling in from our gaming tie ups we can offset any losses with clever accounting.

We have about as much chance of making the top six next season as I have of bumping into Margot Robbie in Cannock morisons, it's not impossible but very, very, very unlikely.

We are a very different side without Cuhna, Neto, Hwang, RAN, Gomes, and Kilman - we could quite easily lose three or four of those players - yes, they would bring in significant funds, but it has to be spent well and that is not a given.

I think there will be lot stronger teams in the division next year, it's going to be real fight to break the top 10.

 

[goldeneyed]

7th-10th each season on a consistent basis is a realistic aim if we get recruitment right and keep most of our best players. Cunha, RAN and Gomes crucially must stay. Neto based on his injury record could go if we get a decent fee.
Signing a quality centre forward plus another striker and winger would transform our prospects plus a quality Dawson replacement and Mosquera returning.

The club have been massively hampered by three terrible striker signings costing at least £77m. If we can only get rid of SIlva and Guedes this summer that would be a huge boost to our prospects. We will probably lose over £35m on those two alone and Sasa's career looks as fragile as his body right now.

 

[Mancwolf56]

From a fun perspective as a fan, there isn't a great deal in where we were as a Championship side aiming for promotion to now, where the season is over with six games to go. Yes it's a much better position for the club to be in, but are you going to games with excitement about what might happen?

Personally I’m excited about going to the Arsenal game and I can remember many a season in the Championship which was hardly ‘fun’. I’m also a lot happier having ‘nothing to play for’ with six games to go than worrying about relegation.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Inject being safe with half a dozen games to go every year into my veins please, I still remember the days of starting the season a week early to the likes of Coventry so 7 consecutive seasons is a fantastic achievement for an unfashionable club.

 

[wwbug]

7th to 12th is fine for me , it's the type of football we play to get there.

We should now be strong enough to play front foot football against all but the top three.