4 at the back for the remainder of the season?

[QB Wolf]

I think that’s probably the formation Nuno wants to use going forward. It only works if all our attacking players are fit though so we probably need at least one more attacking player on top of Jose.

Also if we are going to play two CBs it can’t be with Boly, that’s a recipe for shipping goals. Only Saiss is really capable of playing in a back four.

I don’t the we have seen the last of a back four but I suspect we will see a back five against Chelsea

Hopefully with the same back 3 as against Chorley.

 

[superwolves]

Coady could play the neves role no problem he would be ideal for it. Push neves a few more yards forward get him running the show in the middle

 

[Glow69]

Coady could play the neves role no problem he would be ideal for it. Push neves a few more yards forward get him running the show in the middle

Not a prayer.

Even neves is sometimes too slow on the turn. So God knows what coady would be like, especially after 3 years as a sweeper

 

[superwolves]

Not a prayer.

Even neves is sometimes too slow on the turn. So God knows what coady would be like, especially after 3 years as a sweeper

I think he could play it no problem his passing range is decent he can tackle pick up the midfield runners coming into the box his communication is invaluable to the team would have to be a place for him in it

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

We've only played about 5 games with a back 4 though. So we have a 20% win rate.

We've played 8 actually.
Southampton, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa, West brom, Brighton, Everton and Tottenham.
1 win, 3 draws and not a single clean sheet. 6 points in 8 games. 16 goals conceded.
It's mind-blowing awful. I have no idea why anybody wants to stick with it given how badly it has gone so far.

 

[WalsallWolf]

The front four is exceptional, as the OP said, no defence in the world would cope with those easily.

However, there are two glaring issues.

We don't have "proper" central defenders to cope. No, I don't mean Paul Butlers, I just mean defenders who can do the fundamentals. Boly is the only complete defender.

We also don't have the central midfielders that can cope, physically. Technically they are superb, but one of Neves/Donck/Moutinho needs to be partnered with a mobile ball winner.

Until we have those two issues dealt with (ideal world, two quality signings in the summer) we should go back to the tried and tested 343 counter attacking formula that got us two consecutive 7th placed finishes.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I think he could play it no problem his passing range is decent he can tackle pick up the midfield runners coming into the box his communication is invaluable to the team would have to be a place for him in it

Coads was poor in midfield in the Chump. I certainly don't want to see him play there in the PL.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Even in a back four, we aren't this expansive, all-out attacking team that some people seem to think.

We've been losing games with the back four on details that aren't really down to the formation.

Since Arsenal, we've had two complete no-shows (Liverpool, Burnley), one with a back four and one a back three.

We've lost to Villa on an individual error, nothing to do with the formation.
We dropped points at Brighton to a Moutinho moment of madness and a set-piece.
We've lost to Everton on a Michael Keane header, nothing to do with the formation.
We've lost to the **** on, IMO, the referee but also set-pieces and stupidity. You could argue Coady was 'exposed' one on one for the foul on Robinson, which is on the formation, but that's clutching at straws big time IMO.

That's not saying we've looked great playing a back four, we haven't, but we also didn't look great playing a back three this season.

I think it's 100% the way to go when we have Traore, Neto and Podence available, against most teams.

I was advocating a switch back to a three in recent games purely because we need additional height. If you get Willian Jose in the team, Dendoncker starting in midfield and Boly in defence, that rectifies that issue considerably.

Then, in terms of football, we're clearly a lot better going forward with a back four, that's evident with the stats.

So, playing that way with our best attacking options is a no-brainer IMO. Doing it when Podence is out is a risk, and against teams who attack us, like tomorrow.

Basically, we don't have a good squad so no matter what formation we played would cause an issue right now because too many big players have been injured.

I think most of these players have mastered what's needed in a back three, so let's be flexible and adjust on a game to game basis.

IMO, I'd go with a four against the weaker teams, and only when Neto, Podence, Traore are fit, and a three when we know we will be able to counter.

 

[superwolves]

Coads was poor in midfield in the Chump. I certainly don't want to see him play there in the PL.

The coady back then was a completely different player to what he is now

 

[pacamac]

Question for everyone in more general terms everyone seems so adamant either a 4 or 5 for the rest of the season?

Why does it have to be one or the other? No other team is like this, no other fans that I'm aware of a so simplistic with formation.

I know Nuno likes to stick to certain tried and tested formations but lets not forget even with the 'same every week' 5 at the back he often switched up from a front 3 with 2 in midfield to a 3 man midfield and 2 up top depending on the game and what was needed.

While I think for the time being to halt this poor run we are best going back to what we know and grinding out some results (3/5 at the back), there's certainly place for switching to a 4 for certain games or even during games when its needed.

I just think we need to find our best way of playing with a 4. Previous switched (the 5-2-2 / 5-2-3) were all pretty defined as in players knew their roles in either system inside out. We've still to figure out what our best option with a back 4 (and therefore utilising an extra man forward) is. I personally would say its likely to be a 4-2-3-1 type formation with two wide men an centre focal point forward and a CAM in behind (therefore easily interchangeable from the 5-2-3 option, you just lose a sweeper but gain a CAM), but we saw various variations (including that horrible false number 9 nonsense).

Maybe it would be fairer to judge a back 4 approach once they know which is our best back 4 approach.

I still don't think now is the right time to address that personally (with players out and the low confidence/need to halt the slide) but its certainly something worth thinking about.

Doesn't have to be either or.

 

[Deleted member 11332]

We've played 8 actually.
Southampton, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa, West brom, Brighton, Everton and Tottenham.
1 win, 3 draws and not a single clean sheet. 6 points in 8 games. 16 goals conceded.
It's mind-blowing awful. I have no idea why anybody wants to stick with it given how badly it has gone so far.

So by that. We'd easily get 15 from 19 games meaning we were safe. That's without us improving by adding Jose and getting players like podence and marcal back from injury.

I prefer to watch us actually go and attack teams. I'd much rather be like Leeds than someone like Burnley and they'll finish on roughly the same points. Football is about entertainment aswell as winning for me though.

It also gives us a good base for next year where we have the cohesion in place in formation so that players we sign in the summer slot in easily to the new way of playing.

Im not against going 3 at the back in games where we won't have a lot of possession and look to break. Tonight for example.

 

[Minimalist]

Here’s a thought:​

Maybe our best back pairing is Boly & Killman. Both good in the air both calm, not slow, good on the ball. A right footer and a left.

Now the downside is boly can lose concentration and killman is fairly inexperienced. So; would they both benefit from the more forthright and vocal Ruddy behind them!???
Big call I know. Dropping coady and Patricio!

I AM NOT SUGGESTING WE DO THIS.

But would our best back 4 be:

Ruddy
Jonny Boly Killman Marcal
2
3
1​

 

[LetTheBullLoose]

Have said it all along, and I know people will disagree...but we don’t have good enough CBs to play a flat back 4. So, not for me. 3 at the back is Wolves’ identity and players have been bought and have trained to play that system.

 

[Contrarian]

The front four is exceptional, as the OP said, no defence in the world would cope with those easily.

They're good, but not that good. If Adama could shoot (or pass) and if Podence didn't disappear so often, maybe. And if all them were a bit more aware in their decision making. That long, first time pass/cross Neto put in for Dendonker the other night was exceptional, goal of the season if Donk scores. But that is very much the excepion, all 3 don't have the intuitive awareness of each other (I'm not even sure they care, at their worst) that all the top partnerships like say, Raul and Jota, developed.

But the main problem is that they'd be isolated from the Deep Six. i.e. the rest of the team. With little to connect them. We've seen it often recently. It was still there against Chelsea in an good performance defensively, but the ball rarely made it to those up front.

 

[Contrarian]

Even in a back four, we aren't this expansive, all-out attacking team that some people seem to think.

We've been losing games with the back four on details that aren't really down to the formation.

Since Arsenal, we've had two complete no-shows (Liverpool, Burnley), one with a back four and one a back three.

We've lost to Villa on an individual error, nothing to do with the formation.
We dropped points at Brighton to a Moutinho moment of madness and a set-piece.
We've lost to Everton on a Michael Keane header, nothing to do with the formation.
We've lost to the **** on, IMO, the referee but also set-pieces and stupidity. You could argue Coady was 'exposed' one on one for the foul on Robinson, which is on the formation, but that's clutching at straws big time IMO.

Against Villa our main problem was that we didn't take our chances. Without being brilliant, we still should have been a goal up, arguably 2 by the injury time.

For me, 4 at the back delivers pretty much what was expected. A much more open game, where we get more chances yet also concede more. And with our star striker out, and nearly everybody else (Saiss is an exception !) failing to score the chances they *should* be putting away, it may not be the wisest approach.

Everton was an odd one..because they had literally 2 half chances the whole match and scored them both. We didn't create much though, but more than that and as I said, if you're missing the chances yet leaking the other end...it's not good. But I think with Raul out, the attack not looking cohesive in general, we will get done like that more often than not if we stick with a 4 based around whose currently available.

So yeah, I think we have a similar view on this

 

[Deleted member 11332]

Here’s a thought:​

Maybe our best back pairing is Boly & Killman. Both good in the air both calm, not slow, good on the ball. A right footer and a left.

Now the downside is boly can lose concentration and killman is fairly inexperienced. So; would they both benefit from the more forthright and vocal Ruddy behind them!???
Big call I know. Dropping coady and Patricio!

I AM NOT SUGGESTING WE DO THIS.

But would our best back 4 be:

Ruddy
Jonny Boly Killman Marcal
2
3
1​

No.

 

[NickJohnG]

A sweeper or a ten?
What about full/wing backs? How far forward can you push both forward in a 4 and get away with it, without having to have a midfielder come over and sit in?
I see this as one of the reasons we have conceded so many recently, either you make sure the back 4 stay as a back 4 or you get one of the midfielders to sit. I don't think any of our midfielders have been doing that effectively, and our full back's sure as hell haven't been disciplined.

Liverpool play a 4 and I don’t see too many complaints about Trent and Robertson not getting forward?.....

 

[Minimalist]

No.

Succinct
I’m a fan of that...

 

[Dingle Chris]

I’d like to see a bit of both. 4 against place and the rest and 5 against the top 6.

 

[Bradmore Wolf]

Stop ****ing about with defence. To me, any defence should be stable,consistent,reliable,trusty,dependable etc etc. These days we have no idea what defence will be played. Im old school though I admit.

 

[Deleted member 11332]

Succinct
I’m a fan of that...

Was mainly re ruddy.

 

[Royal wolf]

Please god let’s do this.

Now we have Jose let’s get Adama and Neto in the wings with podence behind in the no 10.

Take out the individual mistakes and penalties were we really that bad with a back 4?

 

[North West Wanderer]

Yep.
need a pre season to embed that change of formation.

 

[Jay Jay de Wolf]

We are lucky for once that Saka goal was disallowed by var for a toe nail this time.

Yet 4 at the back is looking really dodgy with Saka having 3 attempts at goal already

 

[Jay Jay de Wolf]

Wolves like a sieve with 4 at the back Arsenal could be 3 up already after 30 minutes..
At only one Nuno must make changes asap. Or it's more doom & gloom!

 

[Aimless Balls]

No one wanted this back 4.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I'm shell shocked.
What just happened?
Is this the lightning bolt we need?

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Can't say I'm convinced, but maybe we could do it with an actual LB. Interesting swap in the middle. At least we give the opposition some problems.

 

[Tring Wolf]

So it sounds like after the ‘clear the air’ meeting, this is the way we’re going to go until the end of the season.

With that in mind, does anyone know how long RAN and Marcal are likely to be out for? As much as Kilman has performed really well at centre-back, that system won’t work with him as a full-back.

Not his fault and credit to him for sticking at it but we got cut to pieces every time they attacked down that side in the first half.

 

[hankin]

So it sounds like after the ‘clear the air’ meeting, this is the way we’re going to go until the end of the season.

With that in mind, does anyone know how long RAN and Marcal are likely to be out for? As much as Kilman has performed really well at centre-back, that system won’t work with him as a full-back.

Not his fault and credit to him for sticking at it but we got cut to pieces every time they attacked down that side in the first half.

It sounds like Jonny might be back very soon? That would make helluva difference.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

So it sounds like after the ‘clear the air’ meeting, this is the way we’re going to go until the end of the season.

With that in mind, does anyone know how long RAN and Marcal are likely to be out for? As much as Kilman has performed really well at centre-back, that system won’t work with him as a full-back.

Not his fault and credit to him for sticking at it but we got cut to pieces every time they attacked down that side in the first half.

It wasn't just him though. Semedo was destroyed down his side too. It's the gaps between the full back, centre half and defensive midfielders that need to be sorted out if we are going to go down that path. Semedo was completely exposed for his goal.

 

[Matt]

One thing is for sure, Jonny will make a huge difference to the defence no matter what system we play. We can’t play Kilman at left back ever again though.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

We are lucky for once that Saka goal was disallowed by var for a toe nail this time.

Yet 4 at the back is looking really dodgy with Saka having 3 attempts at goal already

Clearly offside .

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

One thing is for sure, Jonny will make a huge difference to the defence no matter what system we play. We can’t play Kilman at left back ever again though.

He will be an enormous player to have back

hoever for coady and kilman to cb on Sunday

 

[Deleted member 11332]

Can't say I'm convinced, but maybe we could do it with an actual LB. Interesting swap in the middle. At least we give the opposition some problems.

Jonny playing left back solves a good proportion of our issues.

 

[Tring Wolf]

It wasn't just him though. Semedo was destroyed down his side too. It's the gaps between the full back, centre half and defensive midfielders that need to be sorted out if we are going to go down that path. Semedo was completely exposed for his goal.

That is one thing that Dendoncker does do exceptionally well. If we are going 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, I’d actually be tempted to consider Saiss alongside Neves in there.

Not entirely sure what our best current side is in that formation. Fill in the blanks:

Patricio
Semedo, ?????, Boly, ????
Neves, ?????
Traore, ?????, Neto
Jose

 

[Incognito]

I'll be happy with 4 at the back, yes. Just not with Coady in that 4, I'm afraid. The 4 at the back opens up so many possibilities attacking wise.

 

[Matt]

That is one thing that Dendoncker does do exceptionally well. If we are going 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, I’d actually be tempted to consider Saiss alongside Neves in there.

Not entirely sure what our best current side is in that formation. Fill in the blanks:

Patricio
Semedo, ?????, Boly, ????
Neves, ?????
Traore, ?????, Neto
Jose

Patricio
Semedo, Donck, Boly, Jonny
Neves, Saiss
Traore, Podence, Neto
Jose

Totally agree on Saiss. If no fit lb then it has to be Hoever for me.

 

[Incognito]

We are lucky for once that Saka goal was disallowed by var for a toe nail this time.

Yet 4 at the back is looking really dodgy with Saka having 3 attempts at goal already

It was a wee bit more than that. Cannot be compared to our offside against Liverpool last season or a few suffered by other teams, which really were toe-nails, pubes, etc. Nah, their correctly disallowed first goal was one of the more obvious ones, close, but for VAR, an easy one to make.

 

[Aurum Lupus]

It wasn't just him though. Semedo was destroyed down his side too. It's the gaps between the full back, centre half and defensive midfielders that need to be sorted out if we are going to go down that path. Semedo was completely exposed for his goal.

Totally agree with this, but am hoping its more to do with lack of training in the set up.

I think/hope if we play this way for the rest if the season there is another 9 points minimum.

That doesn't mean I'm happy, more the defence will get better drilled, and attack more used to playing that way with additional chances.