4-3-3

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

I’d put MGW in the middle with Neves & Moutinho we will need the energy

Sort of agree. 4-2-3-1 with MGW playing in the 3.

 

[Monketron]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550531377581670400

Not conclusive evidence but I'm liking this!

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Sa
Jonny Collins Killman RAN
Donk Neves Moutinho
MGW Jimenez Neto
​

I think this would be our best 433 team atm.

Why do we need our CM to be so negative? I struggle to see who that gets the best out of.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Sa
Jonny collins kilman ait nouri
Moutinho neves
Mgw
Podence raul Neto

 

[Minimalist]

Why do we need our CM to be so negative? I struggle to see who that gets the best out of.

I wouldn’t agree that it is necessarily negative, but admittedly it’s not exactly gung-ho. Suppose I’d consider it a sensible way of transitioning from a back 3. IF we did go 433.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I wouldn’t agree that it is necessarily negative, but admittedly it’s not exactly gung-ho. Suppose I’d consider it a sensible way of transitioning from a back 3. IF we did go 433.

Would that line up get more than about 30 goals a year on current form? Why do you need all three of neves donk and moutinho? Surely we can afford a morgan gibbs-white type in there?

 

[Dan G WWFC]

Would that line up get more than about 30 goals a year on current form? Why do you need all three of neves donk and moutinho? Surely we can afford a morgan gibbs-white type in there?

He's more of a forward then a midfielder for me and he's playing right wing currently

 

[Golden_Wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550531377581670400

Not conclusive evidence but I'm liking this!

Can't see anything

 

[Minimalist]

Would that line up get more than about 30 goals a year on current form? Why do you need all three of neves donk and moutinho? Surely we can afford a morgan gibbs-white type in there?

If they all play a bit further up the pitch then I do think there is potential for goals there. While hopefully still being defensively sound.

If you put MGW in the midfield then I’d rather it was set up as a 4231 with him as the 10, or wide and podence as the 10.
Which you could argue is me splitting hairs about what constitutes 433.

 

[Monketron]

Can't see anything

It was a tweet by Liam Keen of the Express and Star saying that Wolves were lined up in a 4-3-3 in training, but his tweet is now deleted. I wonder if Wolves asked him to not divulge tactical stuff or maybe he just thought better about doing it himself.

 

[StraightToPopworld]

It was a tweet by Liam Keen of the Express and Star saying that Wolves were lined up in a 4-3-3 in training, but his tweet is now deleted. I wonder if Wolves asked him to not divulge tactical stuff or maybe he just thought better about doing it himself.

Haven’t gone back to look but from memory, CBs were Kilman and Coady with Moutinho, Neves and Ronan the midfield 3.

 

[Minimalist]

I think this system has shown great promise.

However it is going to be important people have some patience with it. There will be teething problems, maybe even the odd hiding or loss to teams we expect to beat.

It won’t be instant success, but if we do go this way we need to give it a decent run of games and not revert straight back at the first sign of difficulty.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I think this system has shown great promise.

However it is going to be important people have some patience with it. There will be teething problems, maybe even the odd hiding or loss to teams we expect to beat.

It won’t be instant success, but if we do go this way we need to give it a decent run of games and not revert straight back at the first sign of difficulty.

As thing stands Imho, We aren't going to win any of our first 8 games, and Lage is going to get sacked.
Two of the front 3 aren't anything special at this level, same with 2 of the central midfield.
Neves is also getting caught in possession a fair amount with both full backs up. There are better wingers than Trincao in this division, that will take advantage of these situations.
Could all change with a few signings.

There isn't one way to play football. Why we chose this system with literally 3 midfielders at the club is baffling to me.

 

[JayStringer]

Two of the front 3 aren't anything special at this level, same with 2 of the central midfield.

In a midfield 3 that has 2 of the best players ever to pull on a Wolves shirt, which 2 aren't anything special at this level?

 

[JayStringer]

I think this system has shown great promise.

However it is going to be important people have some patience with it. There will be teething problems, maybe even the odd hiding or loss to teams we expect to beat.

It won’t be instant success, but if we do go this way we need to give it a decent run of games and not revert straight back at the first sign of difficulty.

Agreed. I think it's looked very good. With the glaring and obvious caveats that we need a new midfielder and a good striker to make it work.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

In a midfield 3 that has 2 of the best players ever to pull on a Wolves shirt, which 2 aren't anything special at this level?

Moutinho these days and dendonker.
I don't really understand why that is controversial. Just ignore the amount of games we haven't remotely dominated in the prem the last couple of seasons.
Some of you guys still have a championship mentality. Course they are the best guys to pull on a wolves shirt. Have a look at some of the clubs we are competing with. Let's see if we dominate the middle in these games.

 

[Peszkywolf]

Moutinho is still quality on the ball, controlling games, feel he can play those intricate close balls probably better than Neves......
But there's been a lot of times where teams run through our midfield. Like someone said it has a bit to do with opposition midfield 3 v our 2, but still we lost a lot of games through midfield. Neves is more mobile but neither can cover that much ground.
Maybe playing less games and playing a midfield 3 will help Moutinho, and able to cover our full backs and centre backs under pressure?

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Moutinho is still quality on the ball, controlling games, feel he can play those intricate close balls probably better than Neves......
But there's been a lot of times where teams run through our midfield. Like someone said it has a bit to do with opposition midfield 3 v our 2, but still we lost a lot of games through midfield. Neves is more mobile but neither can cover that much ground.
Maybe playing less games and playing a midfield 3 will help Moutinho, and able to cover our full backs and centre backs under pressure?

But why do that? Why not have someone in there with Neves that covers the ground? Is moutinho these days bringing enough to the role he is playing? For me the answer is no, not by premier league standards. I guess we'll see in the games coming up.

 

[The Clock]

Can’t understand why so many on here are obsessed with these numbers/ formation.
Are you all Americans?
Intent is more important than any of this stuff, and for two years we have had none.
I don’t need anyone to tell me “no **** Sherlock “ when I compare us to the top scoring two teams in the league.
Forget comparing players, skill, Managers etc
They get the ball and attack.
We get the ball and knock it around midfield, or this calendar year between 6 and 60 yards.
It’s a mindset that needs to be changed more than the formation

 

[Peszkywolf]

You need both right though don't you? Intent but also the right type of player in each position.....maybe not Dendonker as attacking midfielder!!!!

 

[JayStringer]

Moutinho these days and dendonker.
I don't really understand why that is controversial. Just ignore the amount of games we haven't remotely dominated in the prem the last couple of seasons.
Some of you guys still have a championship mentality. Course they are the best guys to pull on a wolves shirt. Have a look at some of the clubs we are competing with. Let's see if we dominate the middle in these games.

Moutinho ‘nothing special’ you just got added to my time-saving ignore list.

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

I don't admit to understand the intricacies of the various formations, so as very much a non expert - Is anyone else worried by the role of the full backs and the players we currently have at the club fitting in to the new system? I say this having watched the Leeds game and the U21 game against Chelsea, both games where full backs seemed to struggle.
Semedo is really the only strong defensive player we currently utilise in the full back position. Jonny may be able to adapt, but has spent a long time playing with the insurance of 3 centre backs behind him. Getting caught out at the back after wing backs had either got caught out of position, or given the ball away in dangerous positions, was a regular occurrence in last year's U23 performances and seemed even more of an issue for the U21 team last night. I worry that the likes of Lembikisa, Bueno, Keto-Diyawa and even Ran are very much in the attacking wing back mould. Do they now need to strengthen their defensive capabilities, or do we need different types of players in these positions?

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

I don't admit to understand the intricacies of the various formations, so as very much a non expert - Is anyone else worried by the role of the full backs and the players we currently have at the club fitting in to the new system? I say this having watched the Leeds game and the U21 game against Chelsea, both games where full backs seemed to struggle.
Semedo is really the only strong defensive player we currently utilise in the full back position. Jonny may be able to adapt, but has spent a long time playing with the insurance of 3 centre backs behind him. Getting caught out at the back after wing backs had either got caught out of position, or given the ball away in dangerous positions, was a regular occurrence in last year's U23 performances and seemed even more of an issue for the U21 team last night. I worry that the likes of Lembikisa, Bueno, Keto-Diyawa and even Ran are very much in the attacking wing back mould. Do they now need to strengthen their defensive capabilities, or do we need different types of players in these positions?

Yeah, it is why we need two sitting midfielders to cover and one a proper athlete. A guy who I loved who Palace signed Cheick Doucoure (bold call but will be looked back on as signing of the summer, aside from Collins/Guedes/whoever else we sign) was the master of it at Lens. Rodri and Fabinho at Liverpool/City often spend more time in fullback positions than Trent/Cancelo etc.

 

[Dan G WWFC]

I don't admit to understand the intricacies of the various formations, so as very much a non expert - Is anyone else worried by the role of the full backs and the players we currently have at the club fitting in to the new system? I say this having watched the Leeds game and the U21 game against Chelsea, both games where full backs seemed to struggle.
Semedo is really the only strong defensive player we currently utilise in the full back position. Jonny may be able to adapt, but has spent a long time playing with the insurance of 3 centre backs behind him. Getting caught out at the back after wing backs had either got caught out of position, or given the ball away in dangerous positions, was a regular occurrence in last year's U23 performances and seemed even more of an issue for the U21 team last night. I worry that the likes of Lembikisa, Bueno, Keto-Diyawa and even Ran are very much in the attacking wing back mould. Do they now need to strengthen their defensive capabilities, or do we need different types of players in these positions?

I would say Jonny is much more suited to playing as a fullback then a wingback, better defensively then going forward.

RAN I think is normally good defensively but can be a bit lazy at times and with the second goal lost his man.

I don't think our wide players helped them much. They need to support them more now we're in a back 4. Neto and MGW seemed a bit slow getting back.

Think going for a 433 and having an extra midfielder a bit deeper could help us cope a bit better too.

 

[wolfslair]

I think losing moutinho screwed a lot of the strategy and plans to be honest….

Leeds are all about high energy and dynamism and to have A few lads off the bench to carry this on.

We still had more possession, more shots in total and on target than they did.

Just two bad moments from the lads cost us crucially in the end with no replacements to cover the weary legs as Leeds continued the relentless pace they do.

I think there is lots to be positive about if we can play a 4-3-3 with a lad like Guedes

 

[goldfish]

I would say Jonny is much more suited to playing as a fullback then a wingback, better defensively then going forward.

He'd be fine if he had a wide player ahead of him, but with the narrow forward three Lage prefers our full-backs will have to provide much of the width. This requires them to get forward plenty. It's more akin to how we played in the Championship under Nuno with Jota and Cavaleiro staying fairly close to Bonatini and Doc/Douglas staying wide.

And so whoever plays full-back for us ideally needs:

1. Exceptional pace
2. Exceptional stamina
3. Good tactical awareness
4. To like playing on the side of their preferred foot

Doc and Douglas didn't have all these, but we dominated the ball so much in the Champ it didn't matter too much. Semedo has them and Ait-Nouri is on the way (he needs to improve the third). Jonny really doesn't though: his tactical awareness is excellent, but that's about it. His best work going forwards has been on the left in the kind of space that the left forward will occupy under Lage. Jonny'll be a useful option from the bench when Semedo returns, especially as he could cover both sides, and might occasionally start against strong attacking teams (especially if we have a midfield three) or come on if we're defending a lead, but I suspect he'll be off next summer.

Substantial periods of England Women's games against Sweden and Spain at the Euros showed the dangers of this system if your full backs aren't a perfect fit. The gung-ho right-back Bronze was caught up-field out of position a few times in the former while the right-footed Daly was isolated at left-back in the latter. I think over the course of a season rather than a tournament such weaknesses will really be exposed.

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

He'd be fine if he had a wide player ahead of him, but with the narrow forward three Lage prefers our full-backs will have to provide much of the width. This requires them to get forward plenty. It's more akin to how we played in the Championship under Nuno with Jota and Cavaleiro staying fairly close to Bonatini.

And so whoever plays full-back for us ideally needs:

1. Exceptional pace
2. Exceptional stamina
3. Good tactical awareness
4. To like playing on the side of their preferred foot

Semedo has all these attributes and Ait-Nouri is on the way (he needs to improve the third). Jonny really doesn't though: his tactical awareness is excellent, but that's about it. Jonny'll be a useful option from the bench when Semedo returns, especially as he could cover both sides, and might start against stronger teams (especially if we have a midfield three)/come on if we're defending a lead, but I suspect he'll be off next summer.

Substantial periods of England womens' games against Sweden and Spain showed the dangers of this system if your full backs aren't a perfect fit. The gung-ho right-back Bronze was caught up-field out of position a few times in the former while the right-footed Daly was isolated at left-back in the latter. I think over the course of a season rather than a tournament such weaknesses will really be exposed.

A good analysis. It’s also why we need 3 in midfield who are genuine midfielders as it allows the full backs to provide the width whilst providing some defensive cover if it’s just 2 in there then we will be caught on the counter, particularly as Neves isn’t a natural at covering out wide.

 

[goldfish]

A good analysis. It’s also why we need 3 in midfield who are genuine midfielders as it allows the full backs to provide the width whilst providing some defensive cover if it’s just 2 in there then we will be caught on the counter, particularly as Neves isn’t a natural at covering out wide.

Yup, definitely. I think they need to be left-sided too as I think Ait-Nouri'll get caught out more than Semedo. The top teams who rely on full-backs for width usually have a central mid who covers, but generally focuses on one side: Henderson covers Alexander-Arnold and Rodrigo primarily fills in for Cancelo. Robertson and Walker are freakishly good/quick so require less covering.

The other option is your centre-half coming wide to cover the full back and the defensive midfielder dropping into the centre of defence, but I think that's riskier.