“Protected” Saturday 3pm Games

[glorybox]

I am periodically asked by my two boys what this is all about. Their Nan lives abroad so without doubt an armchair fan and watches all of our matches live each week. They live near sunny Wolverhamperton and occasionally are fortunate to get a ticket to watch live but never on tv/stream at 3pm without well you know….other methods. I must admit in 2023 with streams all around the world I find all of this impossible to explain rationally to them. Surely it must be time for a rethink on this antiquated policy when some guy in Greenland with a passing interest can watch us live on a Saturday but actual fans here without tickets can’t..?.

 

[Night Silva]

I am periodically asked by my two boys what this is all about. Their Nan lives abroad so without doubt an armchair fan and watches all of our matches live each week. They live near sunny Wolverhamperton and occasionally are fortunate to get a ticket to watch live but never on tv/stream at 3pm without well you know….other methods. I must admit in 2023 with streams all around the world I find all of this impossible to explain rationally to them. Surely it must be time for a rethink on this antiquated policy when some guy in Greenland with a passing interest can watch us live on a Saturday but actual fans here without tickets can’t..?.

Completely agree, even if we have to pay 5 or 10 pounds to watch the games. Its unfair to the real fans when we can't support our team from home.

 

[DasWolf]

Overseas fans pay a fraction and can get access to all games. Ridiculous.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Yeah the 3pm Saturday black out is beyond ridiculous in this day and age. Antiquated is right.

No odds to me living in the US. Can see every game easily. But the fact you can live in Wolvo and not watch the game but I can is a bit daft.

 

[Oh Robbie Robie]

Yeah the 3pm Saturday black out is beyond ridiculous in this day and age. Antiquated is right.

No odds to me living in the US. Can see every game easily. But the fact you can live in Wolvo and not watch the game but I can is a bit daft.

What makes it worse is you can have more clue about what is going on with VAR decisions sitting thousands of miles away yet those who actually pay exorbitant sums of money to watch a live game can have no clue.

 

[VancouverWolf]

The blackout applies here to local ice hockey and probably other lesser sports like NBA, NFL etc…

I guess they’re all just protecting their product

 

[Boss Hogg]

Thought this was a thread about how all clubs should have a guaranteed number of Saturday 3pm kick offs during the season.

I’d vote for that.

 

[Aimless Balls]

Can you guys use roku from other countries in the uk? I’m using a roku for my Canadian subscriptions in the States right now and it’s working but the apps on my tablet/phone won’t work, as they don’t in the UK.

 

[QB Wolf]

With 643m homes having access to the premier league, surely making it available in the UK shouldn’t be a problem.

 

[BlahBlah]

Overseas fans pay a fraction and can get access to all games. Ridiculous.

it depends what those countries are prepared to bid for the rights, then the cost is split between the subscriber base.
3pm games in the UK are great if you live in Europe, or even 5-7 hours behind in the USA, but in Australia it's 2am in front so those rights are worth about 50 quid a year per subscriber....they basically use it as enticement to take out a broadband or mobile phone contract.
It was a free inclusion until this season, we didn't pay anything!

 

[McSteen]

Overseas fans pay a fraction and can get access to all games. Ridiculous.

Not here in Norway, £636 a year

 

[marrs-guitar]

I am periodically asked by my two boys what this is all about. Their Nan lives abroad so without doubt an armchair fan and watches all of our matches live each week. They live near sunny Wolverhamperton and occasionally are fortunate to get a ticket to watch live but never on tv/stream at 3pm without well you know….other methods. I must admit in 2023 with streams all around the world I find all of this impossible to explain rationally to them. Surely it must be time for a rethink on this antiquated policy when some guy in Greenland with a passing interest can watch us live on a Saturday but actual fans here without tickets can’t..?.

Well, the rationale is pretty straightforward.

The football authorities think attendances at lower league clubs would be significantly hit if top flight games - specifically the big clubs -were being shown at the same time and many clubs would eventually go to the wall due to the lost income.

Whether that is true or not, who knows, but there's a clear rationale for why the blackout exists.

In my opinion, England ultimately has too many professional clubs for the modern era and they should probably be exposed to real market conditions and see who survives, but no league in which the clubs vote on matters is ever going to voluntarily vote to downsize.

Like most trends in the modern world, the money is just going to concentrate itself more and more with the few, and football is already no different. It's sad, but it's the way of the world these days.

 

[QB Wolf]

Not here in Norway, £636 a year

Premier League is massive in Norway, isn't it? Been a few times and lots of homes subscribe and loads of people have a Premier League team, Villa, Spurs, Liverpool etc and they'll come over to watch too. The demand is there so the cost is high unfortunately.

 

[WasStefan]

Based on the current arrangements Saturday 3pm games will never be broadcast in the UK, and rightly so.

The 3pm rule is to protect lower league attendances. What happens when Man Utd play on a Saturday 3pm and it’s live in every pub in say Shrewsbury, Shrewsbury are playing at home and no doubt the gate could be hundreds/ thousands less as a result.

It’s probably not as extreme as that, but habits changing over 5-10 years of all 3pm games being shown live will 100% impact attendances in the lower football pyramid in the long term. See Seria A as a case in point. Empty stadiums galore due to easily accessible matches on TV.

There is however a simple way round it, but some tolerance would be needed from fans that i don’t think will ever get support. Play all PL games outside of Saturday 3pm, leaving only football league games at 3pm Saturday.

So PL schedule could be:

1 game Friday 8.00 (same as now)
1 game Saturday 12.30 (same as now)
1 game Saturday 5.30 (same as now)
1 game Sunday 12.30
4 games at Sunday 3.00
1 game Sunday 5.00
1 game Monday 8.00 (same as now)

This will never get buy in from fans as they won’t want to sacrifice Saturday 3pm kick offs but it’s the only way around the blackout rule and protecting attendances in the pyramid.

The other option could be blackout locally only instead of national. So Wolves games shown live throughout the country but not in the West Mids. They do something similar in the US to protect NFL attendances but i’m not sure we can do it here/ the UK probably isn’t a big enough country.

My 2 pennies !

 

[WasStefan]

Well, the rationale is pretty straightforward.

The football authorities think attendances at lower league clubs would be significantly hit if top flight games - specifically the big clubs -were being shown at the same time and many clubs would eventually go to the wall due to the lost income.

Whether that is true or not, who knows, but there's a clear rationale for why the blackout exists.

In my opinion, England ultimately has too many professional clubs for the modern era and they should probably be exposed to real market conditions and see who survives, but no league in which the clubs vote on matters is ever going to voluntarily vote to downsize.

Like most trends in the modern world, the money is just going to concentrate itself more and more with the few, and football is already no different. It's sad, but it's the way of the world these days.

The football pyramid is a part of our national identity. You can reorganize it, the odd club may go to the wall but there is too much history to downsize. All clubs, especially lower league, are fundemental parts of their communities. And long may it continue. Our massive football pyramid is unrivalled and should be protected imo.

 

[marrs-guitar]

The football pyramid is a part of our national identity. You can reorganize it, the odd club may go to the wall but there is too much history to downsize. All clubs, especially lower league, are fundemental parts of their communities. And long may it continue. Our massive football pyramid is unrivalled and should be protected imo.

There will always be a pyramid. Every country has a footballing pyramid. What they don't necessarily have is the idea that 100 clubs can sustainably generate enough revenue to be fully professional.

Those clubs further down the pyramid would still exist within their communities though, but not with the notion that a whole playing squad and coaching team can be professional when you're only getting gates of a few thousand every couple of weeks and have an off-season of several months as well.

The circumstances on which that notion was built in England no longer exists here either in all honesty. Players at the top are, to a large extent, now developed in academies or brought in from abroad. The "need" for a conveyor belt of talent gradually moving up the leagues is far less present.

A good percentage of the new generation of fans have migrated from wanting to follow a team from their local region to wanting to watch only big clubs.. this is why some form of super league is inevitable in the long term. The media add to this by being obsessed with the big clubs.

 

[glorybox]

Well, the rationale is pretty straightforward.

The football authorities think attendances at lower league clubs would be significantly hit if top flight games - specifically the big clubs -were being shown at the same time and many clubs would eventually go to the wall due to the lost income.

Whether that is true or not, who knows, but there's a clear rationale for why the blackout exists.

In my opinion, England ultimately has too many professional clubs for the modern era and they should probably be exposed to real market conditions and see who survives, but no league in which the clubs vote on matters is ever going to voluntarily vote to downsize.

Like most trends in the modern world, the money is just going to concentrate itself more and more with the few, and football is already no different. It's sad, but it's the way of the world these days.

Thanks marrs-guitar but I didn't literally mean i don't understand it!

 

[wolvesaywe]

Well, the rationale is pretty straightforward.

The football authorities think attendances at lower league clubs would be significantly hit if top flight games - specifically the big clubs -were being shown at the same time and many clubs would eventually go to the wall due to the lost income.

Whether that is true or not, who knows, but there's a clear rationale for why the blackout exists.

In my opinion, England ultimately has too many professional clubs for the modern era and they should probably be exposed to real market conditions and see who survives, but no league in which the clubs vote on matters is ever going to voluntarily vote to downsize.

Like most trends in the modern world, the money is just going to concentrate itself more and more with the few, and football is already no different. It's sad, but it's the way of the world these days.

Streaming is almost completely universal nowadays and even non-techies can easily access IPTV. Therefore most football fans can choose to watch a Premier League Saturday 3pm game should they wish to.

The impact on lower league attendances? Well in the 10 years since streaming has gone mainstream the football league has seen its highest average attendances since the 1960s and, in the case of the Championship, since the 50s

Attendances England average

There is zero argument for the blackout. Why don't the Premier League just give the Football League more wonga in return for the removal of the blackout? The TV deal will be worth more as a result so everyone's a winner.

 

[Achilles Last Stand]

Not here in Norway, £636 a year

Yom Norwegians are rich , as a poor Finn I have to stump up only 479,40€/year.

It includes the option of laughing at the Boggies every now and then.

 

[WasStefan]

Streaming is almost completely universal nowadays and even non-techies can easily access IPTV. Therefore most football fans can choose to watch a Premier League Saturday 3pm game should they wish to.

The impact on lower league attendances? Well in the 10 years since streaming has gone mainstream the football league has seen its highest average attendances since the 1960s and, in the case of the Championship, since the 50s

Attendances England average

There is zero argument for the blackout. Why don't the Premier League just give the Football League more wonga in return for the removal of the blackout? The TV deal will be worth more as a result so everyone's a winner.

I’d argue people (especially those who currently go to games) would prefer to watch matches in pubs rather than at home. Most people watch illegally via IPTV in their home, pub landlords for obvious reasons would rather not illegally show games.

If a pub can legally show every PL game at 3pm, that’s a completely different ball game imo.

 

[WasStefan]

There will always be a pyramid. Every country has a footballing pyramid. What they don't necessarily have is the idea that 100 clubs can sustainably generate enough revenue to be fully professional.

Those clubs further down the pyramid would still exist within their communities though, but not with the notion that a whole playing squad and coaching team can be professional when you're only getting gates of a few thousand every couple of weeks and have an off-season of several months as well.

The circumstances on which that notion was built in England no longer exists here either in all honesty. Players at the top are, to a large extent, now developed in academies or brought in from abroad. The "need" for a conveyor belt of talent gradually moving up the leagues is far less present.

A good percentage of the new generation of fans have migrated from wanting to follow a team from their local region to wanting to watch only big clubs.. this is why some form of super league is inevitable in the long term. The media add to this by being obsessed with the big clubs.

Completely disagree. The top clubs/ league should be paying it’s fair share to support the football league, this isn’t simply market forces dictating which clubs stay in business and which ones don’t, football isn’t a normal business as can be seen at top end PL clubs making huge losses…

I note the PL will now be selling FA Cup broadcasting rights instead of the FA. I wonder if that’s a way of considerably increasing income for the whole football pyramid?


Another out there suggestion i would have is the EPL partially acquiring the EFL. Premier league division 1, division 2, EFL league 1/2/3 all with 20 teams and then Conference League, and scrap EFL cup.

Increased PL teams, bigger broadcasting deals which could be used to help fund EFL 1/2/3

But never ever ever happening. Covid and empty stadiums and the EFL not having a pot to **** in was the perfect opportunity but it never happened.

The whole thing needs a radical rethink if its to survive.

 

[iamthenewno2]

Just allow me to watch a time-shifted FULL match when I get back from my non-league match, I will (try to) ignore notifications till I get home and watch as live, I enjoy my lower league football and do think that 3pm games on TV would affect gates but why can't I watch every game 'as live', at the moment I can only watch 30 minute highlights at most.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Based on the current arrangements Saturday 3pm games will never be broadcast in the UK, and rightly so.

The 3pm rule is to protect lower league attendances. What happens when Man Utd play on a Saturday 3pm and it’s live in every pub in say Shrewsbury, Shrewsbury are playing at home and no doubt the gate could be hundreds/ thousands less as a result.

It’s probably not as extreme as that, but habits changing over 5-10 years of all 3pm games being shown live will 100% impact attendances in the lower football pyramid in the long term. See Seria A as a case in point. Empty stadiums galore due to easily accessible matches on TV.

There is however a simple way round it, but some tolerance would be needed from fans that i don’t think will ever get support. Play all PL games outside of Saturday 3pm, leaving only football league games at 3pm Saturday.

So PL schedule could be:

1 game Friday 8.00 (same as now)
1 game Saturday 12.30 (same as now)
1 game Saturday 5.30 (same as now)
1 game Sunday 12.30
4 games at Sunday 3.00
1 game Sunday 5.00
1 game Monday 8.00 (same as now)

This will never get buy in from fans as they won’t want to sacrifice Saturday 3pm kick offs but it’s the only way around the blackout rule and protecting attendances in the pyramid.

The other option could be blackout locally only instead of national. So Wolves games shown live throughout the country but not in the West Mids. They do something similar in the US to protect NFL attendances but i’m not sure we can do it here/ the UK probably isn’t a big enough country.

My 2 pennies !

In principle l agree with that. In reality streaming is so all pervasive that the genie is well and truly out of the bottle and all that the FA are doing is costing PL clubs revenue.

 

[WickedWolfie]

The football pyramid is a part of our national identity. You can reorganize it, the odd club may go to the wall but there is too much history to downsize. All clubs, especially lower league, are fundemental parts of their communities. And long may it continue. Our massive football pyramid is unrivalled and should be protected imo.

Again in principle l agree but all too many clubs are economic basketcases. Who do you think should bear the costs of supporting those?

 

[WickedWolfie]

There will always be a pyramid. Every country has a footballing pyramid. What they don't necessarily have is the idea that 100 clubs can sustainably generate enough revenue to be fully professional.

Those clubs further down the pyramid would still exist within their communities though, but not with the notion that a whole playing squad and coaching team can be professional when you're only getting gates of a few thousand every couple of weeks and have an off-season of several months as well.

The circumstances on which that notion was built in England no longer exists here either in all honesty. Players at the top are, to a large extent, now developed in academies or brought in from abroad. The "need" for a conveyor belt of talent gradually moving up the leagues is far less present.

A good percentage of the new generation of fans have migrated from wanting to follow a team from their local region to wanting to watch only big clubs.. this is why some form of super league is inevitable in the long term. The media add to this by being obsessed with the big clubs.

Sadly, and l hate to say it, this is pretty accurate.

 

[WasStefan]

Again in principle l agree but all too many clubs are economic basketcases. Who do you think should bear the costs of supporting those?

The Premier League, the EFL, the FA via a regulator.

Football cannot regulate itself. See Man City financial doping over many years whilst allegedly falsifying accounts as a case in point.

 

[SevernWolf]

One way to protect the smaller clubs might be to make the matches available to subscribers of a particular club, and not allow them to be shown in pubs. For example, I'd pay an annual sub for the Wolves matches as I can't get to all of them (I live over 100 miles away). However, that way, people won't be watching whatever this week's "big match" is on Saturday afternoon, rather than supporting their local team.

 

[WickedWolfie]

The Premier League, the EFL, the FA via a regulator.

Somewhat increased payments perhaps. Full bailouts for the sort of clowns who destroyed Bury? No chance.

 

[WasStefan]

Somewhat increased payments perhaps. Full bailouts for the sort of clowns who destroyed Bury? No chance.

Will always be exceptions like Bury, but most clubs aren’t in that position

 

[Supadavewolf]

Not here in Norway, £636 a year

Aah, the same price you pay for a pint of beer there

 

[WickedWolfie]

Will always be exceptions like Bury, but most clubs aren’t in that position

I actually don't think that we are so far apart. I've never liked the greed is good league but do believe that clubs need to operate sensible financial policies rather than expecting anyone to bail them out if things go wrong.

 

[welshy]

If I had the Potential to watch Wolves on TV I would.

 

[Jawwfc]

What I've noticed recently on social media is footballers watching 3pm games on non UK channels.... seems even the players themselves use certain ways of watching 3pm games.

 

[bod101]

If I had the Potential to watch Wolves on TV I would.

Just to say IPTV is illegal, or at very best sitting in a legal grey area. Please don't link to any providers on the forum please. (Before anyone does )

 

[bod101]

Just to say IPTV is illegal, or at very best sitting in a legal grey area. Please don't link to any providers on the forum please. (Before anyone does )

Oh and before someone comes on and tells me netflix etc are technically iptv I know.

But anyway here's a quick more than useful article about the legality
Link deleted

So maybe we leave this part of the discussion there

 

[Chris H]

Oh and before someone comes on and tells me netflix etc are technically iptv I know.

But anyway here's a quick more than useful article about the legality

https://www.firesticktricks.com/is-iptv-legal.html

So maybe we leave this part of the discussion there

There’s an extremely useful list of IPTV providers towards the bottom of that link.

Thanks Bod!

 

[paxrax]

Based on the current arrangements Saturday 3pm games will never be broadcast in the UK, and rightly so.

The 3pm rule is to protect lower league attendances. What happens when Man Utd play on a Saturday 3pm and it’s live in every pub in say Shrewsbury, Shrewsbury are playing at home and no doubt the gate could be hundreds/ thousands less as a result.

It’s probably not as extreme as that, but habits changing over 5-10 years of all 3pm games being shown live will 100% impact attendances in the lower football pyramid in the long term. See Seria A as a case in point. Empty stadiums galore due to easily accessible matches on TV.

There is however a simple way round it, but some tolerance would be needed from fans that i don’t think will ever get support. Play all PL games outside of Saturday 3pm, leaving only football league games at 3pm Saturday.

So PL schedule could be:

1 game Friday 8.00 (same as now)
1 game Saturday 12.30 (same as now)
1 game Saturday 5.30 (same as now)
1 game Sunday 12.30
4 games at Sunday 3.00
1 game Sunday 5.00
1 game Monday 8.00 (same as now)

This will never get buy in from fans as they won’t want to sacrifice Saturday 3pm kick offs but it’s the only way around the blackout rule and protecting attendances in the pyramid.

The other option could be blackout locally only instead of national. So Wolves games shown live throughout the country but not in the West Mids. They do something similar in the US to protect NFL attendances but i’m not sure we can do it here/ the UK probably isn’t a big enough country.

My 2 pennies !

literally every man and his dog who are interested in watching 3pms has access to those games now and has done for the last few years.

just because sky/bt/amazon don't have the rights to them it doesn't mean it's not happening.

i can see it coming sooner rather than later from a legitimate platform, they are losing too much prospective income and everyone including the epl, efl, hmrc and everyone else all want increased revenue.

how it's policed i wouldn't care to guess but i can see it coming.

 

[Leominster_Wolf]

There’s an extremely useful list of IPTV providers towards the bottom of that link.

Thanks Bod!

And instructions on how to jailbreak your firestick and top Kodi Add Ons

 

[VancouverWolf]

Not here in Norway, £636 a year

At first glance that seems high but maybe you get a lot of other channels and sports with that.

 

[Wolf316]

At first glance that seems high but maybe you get a lot of other channels and sports with that.

How much do you pay for Fubo?