Everton, surely a points deduction?

[WW1963]

That’s easy to say in hindsight.
If my memory serves , most on here were more keen on us pushing the boat out to sign Scott over Goykeres. That wouldn’t have much helped us.

Everything is easy to say in hindsight but doesn't change anything.

 

[WickedWolfie]

It just gets worse for them....

The fact that Everton have given both the new stadium and property around Goodison (unclear if that includes the ground itself) as security for loans must be deeply worrying to their fans.

Everton on the brink: questions over club’s finances are more urgent than ever

Time taken for Farhad Moshiri to attract new investors may have made a viable solution harder to find

www.theguardian.com

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

I'd have been happy with us signing Goykeres for £30m and taking the hit. He's now worth three times that amount and it doesn't surprise me.

Had we done so, there's an excellent chance we'd have the same net points as we do now (having took the deduction) and be looking forward to Wembley.

Good guys finish last.

and how do you know what the deduction would have been? so far we've had 10 points, 4 points and 2 points. We have no idea what our punishment would have been so you can't say we should have said sod it and just spent. And as Everton have shown you would have had the knock on effect to the following season and another deduction or a much larger exodus of players

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

It just gets worse for them....

The fact that Everton have given both the new stadium and property around Goodison (unclear if that includes the ground itself) as security for loans must be deeply worrying to their fans.

Everton on the brink: questions over club’s finances are more urgent than ever

Time taken for Farhad Moshiri to attract new investors may have made a viable solution harder to find

www.theguardian.com

They cheated so did forest

Luton have to punish them

Loans against their new ground means it was pointless moving? Crazy situation. Thank goodness we don’t play in blue. Wigan, Reading, Portsmouth, Everton & Birmingham

Funny that Wigan, Pompey and Blues actually won a trophy before their demise lol

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I'd have been happy with us signing Goykeres for £30m and taking the hit. He's now worth three times that amount and it doesn't surprise me.

Had we done so, there's an excellent chance we'd have the same net points as we do now (having took the deduction) and be looking forward to Wembley.

Good guys finish last.

I don't think Gyokeres would be worth 3 times the amount he came to us. You know he would have played 5 times scored 0 goals got injured, and rushed back to fitness for him only to score an own goal against Coventry.

 

[WW1963]

and how do you know what the deduction would have been? so far we've had 10 points, 4 points and 2 points. We have no idea what our punishment would have been so you can't say we should have said sod it and just spent. And as Everton have shown you would have had the knock on effect to the following season and another deduction or a much larger exodus of players

You don't.

 

[Dingle Chris]

I never want us to lose but I can’t see myself being too bothered if we lost to Luton.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

and how do you know what the deduction would have been? so far we've had 10 points, 4 points and 2 points. We have no idea what our punishment would have been so you can't say we should have said sod it and just spent. And as Everton have shown you would have had the knock on effect to the following season and another deduction or a much larger exodus of players

Thing is it's this year's accounts. None of us know the truth of the PSR situation apart from we passed. Nobody that I can find who knows about it really believes the stuff that Madeley has spread for them about being £2.7m clear this year, but that's with a 17th placed finish. So let's say we finish 13th (lowest realistic I'd say) we must be at least £15m clear and if we'd paid £30m for Gyorkores then it would have cost us (let's say) £5m in amortisation and £3m in wages, so we'd have been fine even by their figures. I know you can say we might have finished 17th, maybe even we'd have taken 17th, but there are so many half truths around it's hard to believe we couldn't have afforded him.

What is fair is that most people would have taken Fati or Beto for example, whereas Gyorkores might not have come anyway.

 

[Topcat]

Having read the Everton forum on different topics they a real basket case of a club and it’s quite apparent there’s really no way back for them, possibly 550mil in debt and rising, taking into account the interest rate of allegedly over 10% on their current loans on loans, where does it end?

At least the building contractor on their new ground demand up front payments at every stage of the development, smart move if you ask me!

We all might criticise Fosun, but thank god we’re not in that position just yet?!

 

[StaffordWolf]

Having read the Everton forum on different topics they a real basket case of a club and it’s quite apparent there’s really no way back for them, possibly 550mil in debt and rising, taking into account the interest rate of allegedly over 10% on their current loans on loans, where does it end?

At least the building contractor on their new ground demand up front payments at every stage of the development, smart move if you ask me!

We all might criticise Fosun, but thank god we’re not in that position just yet?!

Upfront payment is standard for a company with incredibly poor credit.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Upfront payment is standard for a company with incredibly poor credit.

I remember, in the really bad days of the Bhattis, that even the club milkman wanted advance payment.

 

[JohnB]

I remember, in the really bad days of the Bhattis, that even the club milkman wanted advance payment.

Wow. - hadn’t realised it was that bad. What position did he play?

 

[Fenrir_]

From the outside it just seems like Everton and their prospective owners are putting off an almost inevitable administration as long as they can in the hope they can survive the points deduction this season, then survive the administration points deduction next season and retain their PL status

Hope they go bump and have to reform

 

[Tring Wolf]

Wow. - hadn’t realised it was that bad. What position did he play?

Was a very rapid winger.

So quick he was pasteurised before you could blink…

 

[StaffordWolf]

Was a very rapid winger.

So quick he was pasteurised before you could blink…

Shame it all turned a bit sour towards the end.

 

[clivewolves]

After watching Real Madrid get to another Champions League semi-final I still can't believe Carlo Ancelotti was the Everton manager. He must have been on a ****load of money.

 

[Fenrir_]

After watching Real Madrid get to another Champions League semi-final I still can't believe Carlo Ancelotti was the Everton manager. He must have been on a ****load of money.

Absolutely he was, I'd guess James Rodriguez was on a pretty penny too. Didn't hear any Everton fans concerned about their spending at that time...

 

[WickedWolfie]

Was a very rapid winger.

So quick he was pasteurised before you could blink…

Name was Ernie l think.... lol

 

[thommo1984]

Wow. - hadn’t realised it was that bad. What position did he play?

He was the one in the gold top.

 

[Bradstonian]

He was the one in the gold top.

You beat me to it!

 

[AndyY]

They cheated so did forest

Luton have to punish them

Loans against their new ground means it was pointless moving? Crazy situation. Thank goodness we don’t play in blue. Wigan, Reading, Portsmouth, Everton & Birmingham

Funny that Wigan, Pompey and Blues actually won a trophy before their demise lol

They probably won the trophies directly as a result of their cheating.
If they hadnt cheated, they would not have won; its like steroids in athletics or cycling etc.

 

[SA Wolf]

They probably won the trophies directly as a result of their cheating.
If they hadnt cheated, they would not have won; its like steroids in athletics or cycling etc.

All clubs cheat in football to a greater or lesser extent, even our beloved Wolves. It could be argued that the real crime is getting caught. Everton has now been caught and hopefully, they will suffer extreme consequences.

 

[Ginger Chimp]

After watching Real Madrid get to another Champions League semi-final I still can't believe Carlo Ancelotti was the Everton manager. He must have been on a ****load of money.

or a ****load of drugs ...

 

[Dubwolf71]

Shame it all turned a bit sour towards the end.

Lost his bottle as well.

 

[wolfslair]

You beat me to it!

He had m-ilky skills…

 

[wolfslair]

All clubs cheat in football to a greater or lesser extent, even our beloved Wolves. It could be argued that the real crime is getting caught. Everton has now been caught and hopefully, they will suffer extreme consequences.

When have we as a club ever cheated to an extent we have actually cheated the spirit and ethics of the sport?

We haven’t on an operational level at all

 

[SA Wolf]

When have we as a club ever cheated to an extent we have actually cheated the spirit and ethics of the sport?

We haven’t on an operational level at all

That's why I added the caveat 'cheating to a lesser or greater extent'. There are degrees of cheating.

 

[wolfslair]

That's why I added the caveat 'cheating to a lesser or greater extent'. There are degrees of cheating.

How have we cheated?

 

[WickedWolfie]

How have we cheated?

There are those who say that we broke at least the spirit of the rules in our promotion season.

 

[SquaddieWolf]

I never want us to lose but I can’t see myself being too bothered if we lost to Luton.

I don't want us to lose to them, but if we did I want the team to all tweet a pic of themselves with their fingers in their ears and say that was for you Morgan.

 

[wolfslair]

There are those who say that we broke at least the spirit of the rules in our promotion season.

But how could we have cheated????

All deals are ratified by the league…… they were aware of the links of fosun to gestifude and they approved the transfers.

The fact people complained, it was looked into and there was no case to answer.

Anyone who thinks that is cheating needs to re-read the definition of cheating

 

[WickedWolfie]

But how could we have cheated????

All deals are ratified by the league…… they were aware of the links of fosun to gestifude and they approved the transfers.

The fact people complained, it was looked into and there was no case to answer.

Anyone who thinks that is cheating needs to re-read the definition of cheating

I agree with you that sticking to the letter of the rules is not cheating. I was merely saying that there are those who believe otherwise.

 

[SA Wolf]

How have we cheated?

We cheat on the football field. Remember Podence and his antics? He was called-out for it on many occasions here. Most footballers appeal for something (pen, foul, etc...), knowing full-well that they may have initiated the contact. They go down holding their face/head trying to get the game stopped or a fellow player booked or sent off, when there is patently no contact with that part of the body.
If players knowingly and deliberately try to win an advantage by impinging the rules; it's cheating. Ex-pros call it gamesmanship, because cheating has more serious connotations.
Diving, faking, time-wasting, palming the ball into the net, time-wasting, blocking, even appealing for corners/throw-ins when the player knows absolutely that it is incorrect .........
We do it, other clubs do it. The game is rife with it.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

We cheat on the football field. Remember Podence and his antics? He was called-out for it on many occasions here. Most footballers appeal for something (pen, foul, etc...), knowing full-well that they may have initiated the contact. They go down holding their face/head trying to get the game stopped or a fellow player booked or sent off, when there is patently no contact with that part of the body.
If players knowingly and deliberately try to win an advantage by impinging the rules; it's cheating. Ex-pros call it gamesmanship, because cheating has more serious connotations.
Diving, faking, time-wasting, palming the ball into the net, time-wasting, blocking, even appealing for corners/throw-ins when the player knows absolutely that it is incorrect .........
We do it, other clubs do it. The game is rife with it.

totally agree. Football is the only sport in the world where cheating isn't just tolerated it's actively encouraged. In what other sport would a player be praised by commentators and pundits by diving to win a penalty etc. You even get players being criticised for being 'too honest'

 

[wolfslair]

We cheat on the football field. Remember Podence and his antics? He was called-out for it on many occasions here. Most footballers appeal for something (pen, foul, etc...), knowing full-well that they may have initiated the contact. They go down holding their face/head trying to get the game stopped or a fellow player booked or sent off, when there is patently no contact with that part of the body.
If players knowingly and deliberately try to win an advantage by impinging the rules; it's cheating. Ex-pros call it gamesmanship, because cheating has more serious connotations.
Diving, faking, time-wasting, palming the ball into the net, time-wasting, blocking, even appealing for corners/throw-ins when the player knows absolutely that it is incorrect .........
We do it, other clubs do it. The game is rife with it.

We are talking about the clubs as organisations cheating here…..

comparing or taking about Podence’s antics in the same breathe as what Everton has done is nonsense.

They don’t compare! They aren’t even in the same universe as each other as what Everton did is waaaaaay worse than podence feigning contact.

 

[Madmalc]

A points deduction is the least of Everton's problems.
Their 52,888 seater stadium is rumoured to be costing between £760m and £1bn.
Article on problems on next phase payment.

England: Lack of funds to complete Everton Stadium?

stadiumdb.com

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

A points deduction is the least of Everton's problems.
Their 52,888 seater stadium is rumoured to be costing between £760m and £1bn.
Article on problems on next phase payment.

England: Lack of funds to complete Everton Stadium?

stadiumdb.com

I’m glad Fosun didn’t move us grounds the cost is astronomical.

 

[Topcat]

A points deduction is the least of Everton's problems.
Their 52,888 seater stadium is rumoured to be costing between £760m and £1bn.

Unfortunately, their deluded fanbase don’t seem to get it though?

They are in deep do do, and somehow expect some mega rich knight in shining armour come to the rescue.

Totally agree, points deduction is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

A points deduction is the least of Everton's problems.
Their 52,888 seater stadium is rumoured to be costing between £760m and £1bn.
Article on problems on next phase payment.

England: Lack of funds to complete Everton Stadium?

stadiumdb.com

The only thing which can save them is a cash rich billionaire willing to take on the bulk of these debts as equity. Otherwise, even if they could secure commercial loans to cover their debts and funds needed to fund the stadium and club operations, they won’t be able to repay them and sustain operating costs without sliding ever further into debt.

 

[SA Wolf]

We are talking about the clubs as organisations cheating here…..

comparing or taking about Podence’s antics in the same breathe as what Everton has done is nonsense.

They don’t compare! They aren’t even in the same universe as each other as what Everton did is waaaaaay worse than podence feigning contact.

You may not see any comparison, but cheating and getting away with it on the field is where it begins. Clubs see that cheating is not only tolerated, but actively encouraged. Managers tell players to feign injury and dive for penalties, etc..... They train them to do so. Players and clubs are rewarded for doing so and so it goes up the greasy-pole to the boardroom. It is no wonder that clubs then see cheating the system as the 'norm' and rules don't apply to them.
You may not see any correlation, but cheating shouldn't be accepted at any level and if it was stamped out at lower levels, perhaps it wouldn't reach Everton's and Man City's and Nottingham Forest's and Chelsea's levels. It may be "nonsense" to you, but it's the thin end of the wedge and is a blight on what used to be called 'the beautiful game'.