Aspirations

[stever]

Where we are at the moment, around mid-table, a side capable of giving anyone a bloody-nose on their day and the club being on a sound financial footing is a situation I am more than happy with, as others have said, when you have watched the side in every division with many ups and downs you always take time to enjoy the highlights when they come along.

The situation we are in at the moment is a million miles from watching the Old Gold at Aldershot Town

Great post mate and I remember Aldershot away

 

[WickedWolfie]

Great post mate and I remember Aldershot away

So do l

 

[JohnB]

Sky 6 plus Newcastle, West Ham and Villa are ahead of us as revenue is higher. Everton if they are in PL when go to new ground will also be there.

So I don’t see us being regularly 7-10 unless we unearth a couple of gems (like Cunha and Neto), a quality manager (not Lage) and a couple of Top 10 muck up.

If the purse string rules are relaxed we’ll be blitzed by Newcastle/Villa and Big 6. Current rules mean we need to generate revenue and box clever.

So enjoy the season - this and two Nuno 7ths are the best I remember since 1980.

 

[oldgoldheart]

When Fosun arrived the talk was of Champions League, two top 7 finishes and Europa league had us dreaming.

Covid came and the world changed, however what are our aspirations now; we’ve seen Newcastle and Chelsea throw hundreds of millions at it, to be around us in the league, Villa have had a tilt but will hopefully not finish in the top 5. Even Man Utd are struggling.

People are saying we should follow the Brighton model and how much we’ll get for Neto and Cunha, but how **** is it having to sell the Crown Jewels to the big 6, have we given up on breaking into this club?

Talk of ground expansion has dried up, is 7-10 now the height of our ambition?

Yes. And thats ok with me

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Catch 22 - you can't break into the top 8 regularly without a 50k ground. You can't build a 50k ground without selling the players you need to make top 8.

We wouldn't fill it anyway though.

It doesn't stay the same forever, Arsenal,Liverpool,Spurs,Man Utd and Everton were the original Big 5. The new rules just mean even if you get bought by a billionaire it might take a while!

 

[TheRetroChief]

It looks pretty rosey in the league right now, but don't forget how much VAR has ****ed us in the Arsenal and how much better it should look. Right now is probably the best we've ever looked in the Prem at this stage maybe? (if you include the lost VAR points). I don't really think anyone can complain about how the club is run right now, annoyingly. I do like a moan.

 

[Ches78]

To be honest, after decades in the doldrums, I'm just chuffed that we're still in the Premier League, doing OK, playing some half decent football and occasionally turning over one of the big boys. My aspirations are simply that it stays like this for as long as possible...

 

[Hot Fuss]

Safe in PL, playing attacking football and seeing good players come through is enough for me.

Like now.

Agree. Lot of talk of how can crack the top 6 but we havnt consistently finished in the top 6 for sixty years, and I don’t expect it to happen again anytime soon.

Maybe seen by negative or lacking ambition by some but I’m loving where we are and the football we’re playing.

Was only a few months old in 1980, would love to see us win a trophy, that’s the big ambition for me personally.

 

[tonto]

The key to all this in my opinion is good management from top to bottom, getting the best out of your staff, and appointing the right men to the right job
I still dream of seeing Wolves dominate like my mom and dad did under Cullis , you may think I am a dreamer but I am not the only one

 

[tonto]

Agree. Lot of talk of how can crack the top 6 but we havnt consistently finished in the top 6 for sixty years, and I don’t expect it to happen again anytime soon.

Maybe seen by negative or lacking ambition by some but I’m loving where we are and the football we’re playing.

Was only a few months old in 1980, would love to see us win a trophy, that’s the big ambition for me personally.

I thought you was much older the way you moaned, just joking

 

[Hot Fuss]

I thought you was much older the way you moaned, just joking

Iv not had a decent moan on here since the last season ticket price announcement!

 

[Stafford]

The best we could hope for is either a top 4, winning the FA Cup or Europa league. However it would be impossible to sustain anything over 8th season after season, due to 7 clubs with huge revenue which is now closed off. They will always bounce back.

But our current situation leaves us a chance of having all our stars align and have a 1 off great season where we achieve something special. Unlikely, but possible.

 

[Mugwump]

Never settle for mediocrity. If as a fan if i am happy with 7-10 I'd give it away. That's not what being a football fan is all about. Dreaming is free.

 

[tonto]

Iv not had a decent moan on here since the last season ticket price announcement

I know just joking cause I am a grumpy old man and proud of it

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Great post mate and I remember Aldershot away

I remember Aldershot at home

Weirdly, many years later Aldershot gave my then teenage daughter a summer’s unpaid internship as an assistant physio / sports scientist. It was her toe in the door of football, and ultimately helped her to get to where she is now. When she arrived, she told them her dad is a life long Wolves fan and was at the playoffs, and one of them showed her the framed picture they keep on the wall. Small world.

 

[Ian]

I would hope the Club and Gary O’Neils aspirations would match mine;
Aim to win every competition you’re entered in ( league & cups) and when that becomes mathematically impossible aim for the highest league position you can get …,, otherwise what’s the point?
I’m not one of the “ 17 and above aslong as we’re playing good football” brigade.
I want to see us winning things playing good football along the way!

 

[VancouverWolf]

Ok, without necessarily believing this to be the case, I’ll ask the question…

Do Fosun actually want Wolves to do anything more than finish comfortably mid table in the PL, if the club can do this year in, year out, without further owner investment? Why might that be?

Qualifying for Europe brings short and long term rewards, but also short term challenges in needing a stronger squad, and requiring compliance with a separate and increasingly tougher, set of FFP rules. We made good money from the EL last time, but were also hit with a fine and restrictions for breaching their rules.

In the past there have been stories of clubs who’s owners actively held back the team from gaining promotion, because that would mean spending a significant amount of (their) money to play in the league above. For instance, promotion from the National League to EFL means replacing cheap to maintain 3D pitches with an expensive to maintain grass surface. Promotion to the PL is a no brainer because the money far outweighs the costs, even for clubs like Luton who needed to spend around 10m. It’s been said that some clubs would prefer not to qualify for the EL because the rewards do not justify the impact of playing Thu/Sun many weeks and having a squad which can manage that without risking PL survival and breaking FFP rules.

If a club’s owners are not lifelong fans, and do not see rapid financial or personal gain in the glory of getting to the next level, then they have an incentive in holding their club back until something changes that calculus. Might that be the case for Fosun?

We have no idea why Fosun bought Wolves, apart from the usual possibilities, eg, vanity, financial reward/investment, prestige, curry favour with the CCP, global recognition?

The ‘why’ they bought may different now.

 

[Scallywolf]

I hate to accept that if we are to be self sustainable, we have to cut our cloth according to our material.

With a stadium capacity of circa 32,000 the Mol is not anywhere near the likes of Yanited, Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal etc whose stadiums are twice as big as ours, which helps them achieve a much greater income than we can.

I aspire for us to be competing at the top of the Premier League every season but I think that we are currently in it to survive, get the best out of our players, sell them at a profit and start all over again.

That strategy can go on for only so long imo as you have to rely on buying the right players at the right time, at the right price and who want to play for our great club and then making them better, selling them and just becoming a conveyor belt.

It is so frustrating to read threads saying the likes of Neto, Cunha, RAN, Gomes and our other Crown Jewels will be off in the summer. It would more reassuring for Mr Shi and Mr Hobbs to come out and say we are keeping our best players by giving them long term contracts, showing ambition and increasing ground capacity. Yes, I know I may be in a dream world in saying that.

After the turmoil of pre season we needed some stability. GON has definitely provided that and he deserves the utmost credit. Give him some extra tools to do the job and reward him for the great job he is doing. He is young, no doubt ambitious and aspires to be competing at the top end of the Premier League, just like me.

 

[Contrarian]

Living in the real world, the only way to break into the top 4 is to sell players when their stock is high, reinvest in new heroes, rinse and repeat.

I think it's almost the opposite of that. The only way, in the current world anyay, is to have a multi billionaire owner prepared to spend hundreds of millions. And even that might not be enough.

I'm not even sure there is a way into the top 4, because those big 6 have it sewn up. Is it something like only 3 occasions in 20+ years that a non - Sky 6 team has made the top 4? One of those was when Leicester won it, since got relegated. A club could break into that top 4 once or twice, but that will be that. Those that missed out when the closed shop was formed can't get in now. I view it as unlikely as talking about a club breaking the old firm domination in Scotland. They even made Rangers start again, but there they are again, in the top 2.

Seems strange to me, talking about finishing 7 - 10 as perhaps not ambitious. For a clunb that has spent most of the last half century well off the top, and wallowing in the Championship. I still dream of finishing 7th and qualifying for Europe again!

 

[Skrilla]

FFP has put to bed any chance of doing what Abramovich did with Chelsea, or the oil princes did with Man City. It's just not possible to sustain it because of the gulf in revenues, the top six earn 3-4x what we earn every year.

I hate to break it to you, but gate receipts from a bigger stadium will not make up that difference. The majority of it is from commercial revenue streams and extremely lucrative sponsorships. We can't match those sponsorships because of what the FA call "Fair Market Value". Newcastle's owners are minted, as are Fosun, but they can't spend it. It's a closed shop.

7th is the realistic peak, with an outside chance at top 4 if absolutely everything clicks i.e. every big transfer you make pays off. That's the sad reality of it, and the FA are perfectly happy for it to stay that way, they won't want to upset the top six with the "European Super League" continuing to make noise.

The best-case scenario for a "fair and equal" Premier League again would genuinely be those top six clubs joining the proposed European Super League. Would it impact the global value of the Premier League and result in TV deals tanking in price? Absolutely, but it would feel fair again. Every club in the Premier League would essentially be a feeder to the Super League, but doesn't it already feel like that with the 'other 14' clubs?

 

[WW1963]

Great post mate and I remember Aldershot away

Went there when we beat them 3-0. We were the Man United of the lower leagues and it's the only time in over 50 years when I expected us to win every game.

As for aspirations today, I just want to see us win an FA Cup and don't see that as an impossible thing to achieve.

The only way we'll win the top division will be when the dirty six plus Newcastle do a runner. Until then, competing for a European place in a self-sufficient way is about as good as it can get.

At least we're not West Brom. They could go into administration this summer if they don't go up. For all their mistakes, Fosun are different gravy to their owner.

 

[goldeneyed]

Our best hope is probably in cup competitions going forward.
The league is tough. Selling star players when they are at their peak is tough to swallow. There is a limit as to how a club can keep finding replacements of similar standard. And if they don't succeed a downward trajectory is inevitable.

If we find a quality centre forward at last this summer and get in a couple more quality back ups we have the makings of a team/squad that could challenge for fifth or sixth which means Europa Cup involvement.

We should hold on to Neto for another season and give it a go imv. If he wants to go etc then so be it but £80m should be the minimum. We sold Jota far too cheap imv and like Brighton we must only sell our best players for absolute top dollar in future. Then re-cycle the money intelligently.

Take away the ridiculous Guedes and Silva purchases and replace with far better buys and we would be higher up the table and financially com- fortable. We can still pack a punch and creep into the top six but Fosun have to back Gary this summer and hold their nerve on Neto, Ait Nouri, Gomes and Cunha when the bids come in from the fat cats.

 

[Ercall Wolves]

Where we are at the moment, around mid-table, a side capable of giving anyone a bloody-nose on their day and the club being on a sound financial footing is a situation I am more than happy with, as others have said, when you have watched the side in every division with many ups and downs you always take time to enjoy the highlights when they come along.

The situation we are in at the moment is a million miles from watching the Old Gold at Aldershot Town

Spot on
I was there at Aldershot away
Then news came through about Hillsborough

 

[Sussex Wolf]

We have no idea why Fosun bought Wolves, apart from the usual possibilities, eg, vanity, financial reward/investment, prestige, curry favour with the CCP, global recognition?

The ‘why’ they bought may different now.

To take them at their word, and consistent with their business, it was an investment. I would add to that, that at the time, it was Chinese government policy to encourage investment in football, and Fosun appear to wish to stay aligned with their government. While Chinese government interest in football has gone, Fosun are still an investment company so I assume they’d still want to make money. Which brings me back to my hypothesis that maybe they’re not excited about qualifying for Europe as long as we stay up, the PL keeps growing Wolves as an asset, and we don’t require cash injections.

 

[QB Wolf]

To take them at their word, and consistent with their business, it was an investment. I would add to that, that at the time, it was Chinese government policy to encourage investment in football, and Fosun appear to wish to stay aligned with their government. While Chinese government interest in football has gone, Fosun are still an investment company so I assume they’d still want to make money. Which brings me back to my hypothesis that maybe they’re not excited about qualifying for Europe as long as we stay up, the PL keeps growing Wolves as an asset, and we don’t require cash injections.

Don't think they ever hid the fact they wanted us to be self sustaining and quite rightly. I think they underestimated what was required to break the top 6 and it's got even more difficult now.

 

[SmiffyWolf]

I feel our only hope of winning something would be a cup . We could potentially every few seasons challenge to get a European spot . I just feel we are setup to sell our better players and the model for how we are run won't kick us on further from this at present. People can use FFP as why we can't but that didn't stop Villa and Newcastle . So if that was or is the case then it is poor management at the top .

As long as we are attacking and giving it a go then that's all we can hope for. I think O'neil and his team have done a fantastic job . My only concern as I mentioned about the players above. Will he stick around if a team that is willing to invest heavily come knocking . Like the players I doubt he would stay . As that is unfortunately the Wolves way of working . Which for me just leaves you as a lower half team in the prem where one season out of 3 we will be ok but 2 seasons we may struggle and even have a relegation scrap.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Aspirations or ambitions are just words for hope
Apart from Arsenal Man City Liverpool and to a lesser extent Man Utd Spurs and Chelsea its almost impossible to consistently be a top 6 team
People quote Villa Newcastle and Brighton as examples but are they really?
Villa are having a good season granted, but dont forget they have only had about 5 seasons out of the top flight in the last 60 years and so far since their return have had one 7th place finish after scraping out of relegation the previous season
Newcastle despite spending hundreds of millions have just one top 6 finish last season and havent won a cup for 70 years
Brighton have a less consistent Prem career than us 17th 15th 16th 9th with one top 6 last season and faultering this
Ofc we can aspire to be a champions league team,but the reality is even if we do it will probably be a one off
It took Man City billions of pounds ,no FFP, 10 years and Pep to get where they are thats the scale of the reality

 

[bod101]

First aim is to consistently get into the europa league, next would be to do that and reach the latter stages consistently. It's certainly what we should aim at if we dont it isn't the end of the world (unless relegated) but that should be a realistic aim.

 

[SuperGran]

First aim is to consistently get into the europa league, next would be to do that and reach the latter stages consistently. It's certainly what we should aim at if we dont it isn't the end of the world (unless relegated) but that should be a realistic aim.

West Ham have done this over the last couple of years it’s a realistic aim rather than trying to break in to the top 4

 

[WolfLing]

Realistically, you can't compete directly with the big spenders. Even more so when the new rules on spend kick in.

What a club with our size and backing can do is become more than a sum of our parts. A collective of players that is fully bought in to a style of playing and each other, which elevates them to levels above.

We were exactly that under Nuno, and GON is achieving the same with this current group.

As an example, Man United and Chelsea are miles from that. They have a collection of expensive players that are like strangers on the pitch. And yet they are still either above us, or around us.

Man City have both the best players and a style and playing that makes them better. That's why they are so good.

Looking at the table, Villa are another team that is more than the sum of their parts, Brighton too to a degree.

The challenge there comes in keeping that group together when the vultures start to circle and pick off your best assets. Not only does that impact directly trying to replace output, it can damage the dynamic of the rest of the team. The belief they had as a group can start to fade after losing an important team member.

On that basis, you have to try to make hay while the sun is shining. You have a 2-3 year window to push on while the group is still together before that group starts to be broken up.

So yes, staying in and around mid table, with the occasional couple of season where it all comes together and we can push for Europe is about as best as we can hope for I suppose!

 

[fleck1]

Its not a case of having given up on it, it was naïve from Jeff/Fosun to make such statements and was probably the first hint of their lack of understanding of the game and the league.
We missed the big boom with the television rights and the Premier League as we were mostly bobbing around the middle of the championship. When we did finally make it we didn't have the super rich owners like a City to move ourselves from the middle of the pack to the top table. With all the loopholes and routes to joining the big 6 slowly being cut off with FFP etc as Newcastle are finding out there is no level playing field.
But with the correct model, good scouting and transfer teams you can place yourself in that 10 to 7 bracket, with a good window getting you in to the position Villa find themselves and good runs at the cup. The longer we stick around and establish ourselves the stronger them possibilities become, to me every team outside of the greedy 6 is one bad window away from a relegation battle there isn't a lot between anyone. With the likelihood it becomes even more competitive with the clubs that are likely to come up next season.

 

[QB Wolf]

This has been one of the most harmonious threads I've read in a long time, vast majority of people on the same page, with a heavy dose of realism and pragmatism.

 

[Longford Wolf]

Spot on
I was there at Aldershot away
Then news came through about Hillsborough

Correct. I got chucked out 2nd half and was put in a police van. The police were being informed about Hilsbrough and then telling us what had happened. We sat there in stunned silence.
After the game the police drove us to the coaches, let us out and told us to stay safe.. I’ve never known a coach journey home be so quiet.

 

[Brockmoorwolf]

Not forgetting1972 and reaching the UEFA cup final.

I was born in 73

 

[steve vena]

Yeah totally get this, as someone who started in ‘88 this is dreamland.

1972 mate as a kid I was about 7. Watching the boys win in 74 and 80 with my dad . Dreamland. Dougan, Richards , Munro, Emlyn Hughes etc.
I'm 58 now . I hope that some of our younger fans get to see something special ...winning a trophy etc.
You can't beat it. It stays in your head forever.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

I think that there may just be a glimmer of opportunity in the next couple of seasons if we can put ourselves in a great position to capitalise.

No-one knows how Liverpool will react to Klopp going. I'm sure they will get a big name in but as we've seen with previous dynasties it isn't a guarantee that they will keep the same standards. The same may happen to them as happened to Man Utd post Fergie

The result of the Man City investigation may take them out of play for a season. Chelsea are a basket case and will take several seasons to sort their issues out.

There may be a top 4 place up for grabs for someone

 

[Jamwolf]

Fosun have been great owners for us, but if they want to leave a lasting legacy they need to sort out the ground.

 

[wwbug]

IMO There will be a hard headed risk v reward strategy .
Very different from the “project “ .

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

7th to 17th is our ambition these days unfortunately we’re never going to break top 6

Maybe not consistently, but with a fair wind and a dollop of luck top six is possible as is winning the occasional trophy.

What we have to accept is, challenging for Europe one season will be interlaced with not challenging the next or even being in a relegation battle.

If we're in with a chance of European football once every five years, I'm quite.happy with that. For context my first season as a fan was in Division 4.

 

[fleck1]

Don't think they ever hid the fact they wanted us to be self sustaining and quite rightly. I think they underestimated what was required to break the top 6 and it's got even more difficult now.

I much prefer a self sustainable model with small a input from the owners. Rather than being a play thing for someone and run recklessly until they get bored.