Aspirations

[QB Wolf]

When Fosun arrived the talk was of Champions League, two top 7 finishes and Europa league had us dreaming.

Covid came and the world changed, however what are our aspirations now; we’ve seen Newcastle and Chelsea throw hundreds of millions at it, to be around us in the league, Villa have had a tilt but will hopefully not finish in the top 5. Even Man Utd are struggling.

People are saying we should follow the Brighton model and how much we’ll get for Neto and Cunha, but how **** is it having to sell the Crown Jewels to the big 6, have we given up on breaking into this club?

Talk of ground expansion has dried up, is 7-10 now the height of our ambition?

 

[Pagey]

Living in the real world, the only way to break into the top 4 is to sell players when their stock is high, reinvest in new heroes, rinse and repeat.

 

[QB Wolf]

Living in the real world, the only way to break into the top 4 is to sell players when their stock is high, reinvest in new heroes, rinse and repeat.

What teams have done that?

 

[SuperGran]

When Fosun arrived the talk was of Champions League, two top 7 finishes and Europa league had us dreaming.

Covid came and the world changed, however what are our aspirations now; we’ve seen Newcastle and Chelsea throw hundreds of millions at it, to be around us in the league, Villa have had a tilt but will hopefully not finish in the top 5. Even Man Utd are struggling.

People are saying we should follow the Brighton model and how much we’ll get for Neto and Cunha, but how **** is it having to sell the Crown Jewels to the big 6, have we given up on breaking into this club?

Talk of ground expansion has dried up, is 7-10 now the height of our ambition?

It’s so difficult isn’t it
Leicester broke through once but never did again
No one has got CL consistently since City. Newcastle & West Ham have tried and failed. Villa won’t make champions league either.
It’s ok looking at Brighton but they could easily tumble down the league and I’d be interested to see how they finish this season.
We’ve done well but expectations next season are going to be much higher.
7-10th is probably the best we can do given our size and income

 

[sc91]

What teams have done that?

None because we are all trying to do it and are cancelling each other out.

 

[GoldenHorseshoe]

Breathe

 

[bigwolf]

FOSUN are not interested in winning trophies.

They want to turn this club into a £1bn business. That is their objective. Being in the premier league is critical to that aspiration.

If a trophy comes along or a top six finish they will be delighted as we all will be. But that's not the objective. Creating additional revenue streams and being I the prem are the priorities.

In order to compete in the top six or four you have to spend big. It's the only way and for a variety of reasons that will not happen.

Not a criticism. Just an observation.

 

[Pagey]

What teams have done that?

None because none of the chasing teams have ever consistently sold their best players and continued to find better, without breaking ffp or any other rules.

Could argue Villa aren't far away.

 

[Brockmoorwolf]

When Fosun arrived the talk was of Champions League, two top 7 finishes and Europa league had us dreaming.

Covid came and the world changed, however what are our aspirations now; we’ve seen Newcastle and Chelsea throw hundreds of millions at it, to be around us in the league, Villa have had a tilt but will hopefully not finish in the top 5. Even Man Utd are struggling.

People are saying we should follow the Brighton model and how much we’ll get for Neto and Cunha, but how **** is it having to sell the Crown Jewels to the big 6, have we given up on breaking into this club?

Talk of ground expansion has dried up, is 7-10 now the height of our ambition?

Im quite happy with 7-10th in the best league in the world, ive watched wolves play in all 4 divisions, and this is the icing on the cake bar 1974 and 1980 just enjoy it.

 

[QB Wolf]

Im quite happy with 7-10th in the best league in the world, ive watched wolves play in all 4 divisions, and this is the icing on the cake bar 1974 and 1980 just enjoy it.

Yeah totally get this, as someone who started in ‘88 this is dreamland.

 

[WickedWolfie]

What teams have done that?

Spuds have slowly got themselves into that position. It's taken them 15-20 years though and they have the big advantage of the London card.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

What teams have done that?

Leicester.

It was their model. They won the league in the process. Then they hired the wrong manager, Covid intervened, they failed to sack the manager fast enough, and down they went.

 

[QB Wolf]

Leicester.

Hmmmmm kind of, not sustained though and now in the second tier.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Hmmmmm kind of, not sustained though and now in the second tier.

Temporarily. See my expanded post.

 

[Pagey]

Leicester.

But then instead of improving/pushing on they lost their best players and couldn't replace them.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

But then instead of improving/pushin on they lost their best players and couldn't replace them.

See my expanded post.

 

[glorybox]

Im quite happy with 7-10th in the best league in the world, ive watched wolves play in all 4 divisions, and this is the icing on the cake bar 1974 and 1980 just enjoy it.

This this and this. If we get a top 6 finish in one season or a cup final along the way it will be success beyond my dreams when I was watching us from the back of the old South Bank avoiding the rivers of **** and clouds of asbestos dust.

 

[QB Wolf]

Btw I’m just interested in the debate, not complaining or saying we should be aiming higher, although I do hate the thought of losing Neto to one of the big boys.

 

[The Wolf In The North]

This is the closest we've felt to actually creeping into that top bracket since Nuno's second season, and it's all about the finest margins. For example, if we'd been the ones to score a last second winner last Thursday instead of Man Utd then we'd currently be in 8th place, just 1 point off 6th. It feels great right now because so few of us thought we'd be near the top 10 after last summer, but here we are, and feasibly we could be even better.

But for us to break through and build, we have to keep hold of our best players, and that's where so many teams fall down. Leicester are the perfect example; their title winning season, they had a good but mostly ordinary team inflated to greatness by three players who hit a golden peak in Vardy, Kante and Mahrez. Right now, Neto, Cunha and Lemina are out versions, and they're all at the exact right age to push on to further excellence next year - but can we keep them, and Ait-Nouri, and Gomes? If we can, then top 6 isn't out of reach.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Leicester.

It was their model. They won the league in the process. Then they hired the wrong manager, Covid intervened, they failed to sack the manager fast enough, and down they went.

They also held onto a number of players for too long.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

7th to 17th is our ambition these days unfortunately we’re never going to break top 6

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Yes 7-10 is the extent of our ambitions and just maybe a top six as a one off if many top clubs falter, but very unlikely. Fosun gave up long ago on anything more than that and the much celebrated FFP many on here seem to be so fond of now it has caught up with Everton and Forest has ensured we never ever have a chance for more.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Let’s not overlook the 5 subs that give a huge advantage to the big clubs. This makes even more difficult for ‘poorer’ clubs to reach the top.

Kinda interesting the timing of implementation of 5 subs and the new FFP rules enforcements. ( yes, on this one I’m a tad cynical).

 

[QB Wolf]

Yes 7-10 is the extent of our ambitions and just maybe a top six as a one off if many top clubs falter, but very unlikely. Fosun gave up long ago on anything more than that and the much celebrated FFP many on here seem to be so fond of now it has caught up with Everton and Forest has ensured we never ever have a chance for more.

It does feel like this is the reality now and is probably accepted by the majority of the fan base, it feels harder than ever to break into the top 6 with FFP PSR etc

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

When Fosun arrived the talk was of Champions League, two top 7 finishes and Europa league had us dreaming

Covid came and the world changed, however what are our aspirations now; we’ve seen Newcastle and Chelsea throw hundreds of millions at it, to be around us in the league, Villa have had a tilt but will hopefully not finish in the top 5. Even Man Utd are struggling.

People are saying we should follow the Brighton model and how much we’ll get for Neto and Cunha, but how **** is it having to sell the Crown Jewels to the big 6, have we given up on breaking into this club?

Talk of ground expansion has dried up, is 7-10 now the height of our ambition?

The big 6 have been the big 6 for donkeys and always will be the big 6. That's the way it is. 'Smaller' sides have a year or so in the limelight and go away, Leicester and now Toon, but that is always the story. Villa have a chance tbh to stake a claim as Chelsea fall apart but the likes of us and BHA and WHU are just day dreaming and as for all the other Prem sides they are just members of the revolving door club between Prem and Champs. Our ambition must be to match Nuno and/or win a Cup but more than that is a non-starter imo. As soon as we find a player (Jota, Neves, Cunha, Neto, RAN) we are pretty much obliged to sell and so the cycle begins again. We've done well to establish ourselves in the Prem 'B' league but with our limited income this is our realistic position.

 

[VancouverWolf]

As much as I detest cruel dictators , I kinda hope that Saudi monies and their neighbours will outbid the rich clubs …..
There are limits to what City, Liverpool, Utd. can afford on salaries and other personal terms.

Whereas those clubs were/still are the ceiling, Saudi money might make things a tad more even in the PL by luring away their best players or target players during transfer windows.
Won’t happen overnight but it will have some impact but to what extent we’ll have to wait and see.

 

[Starsky]

Safe in PL, playing attacking football and seeing good players come through is enough for me.

Like now.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

But then instead of improving/pushing on they lost their best players and couldn't replace them.

... but managed to build a new ground along the way and are currently top of the Championship.

 

[WickedWolfie]

... but managed to build a new ground along the way and are currently top of the Championship.

Hmmm.... You didn't mention the going bust in what is now the Chump and killing lots of small local businesses when you mentioned building the new ground. Them doing that and retaining their team thus getting promoted back to the PL was one of the key things (Pompey was another) which led to the introduction of FFP.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Im quite happy with 7-10th in the best league in the world, ive watched wolves play in all 4 divisions, and this is the icing on the cake bar 1974 and 1980 just enjoy it.

Not forgetting1972 and reaching the UEFA cup final.

 

[Poztin]

With VAR, new FFP rules, 5 subs etc the drawbridge is well and truly up now.

The Europe season was our chance to gatecrash the party. Covid and that ****ing pen at Burnley robbed us of that.

I’m still bitter…

 

[JonahWolf]

Im quite happy with 7-10th in the best league in the world, ive watched wolves play in all 4 divisions, and this is the icing on the cake bar 1974 and 1980 just enjoy it.

Blah blah, closed shop, big 6, glass ceiling, no ambishun…
Currently watching Plymouth Leeds in the cup, and thinking: ‘thank **** we’ve escaped the chumpionship wilderness’.
Playing out 2 thrillers against the big boys with 13 goals, it’s not all bad.

 

[Bostin]

Im quite happy with 7-10th in the best league in the world, ive watched wolves play in all 4 divisions, and this is the icing on the cake bar 1974 and 1980 just enjoy it.

Yep, 100% this

No point worrying about who we’re going to sell in the summer or where we’re going to be in 5 years.

Just enjoy the way we’re currently playing and the games we are winning.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Ok, without necessarily believing this to be the case, I’ll ask the question…

Do Fosun actually want Wolves to do anything more than finish comfortably mid table in the PL, if the club can do this year in, year out, without further owner investment? Why might that be?

Qualifying for Europe brings short and long term rewards, but also short term challenges in needing a stronger squad, and requiring compliance with a separate and increasingly tougher, set of FFP rules. We made good money from the EL last time, but were also hit with a fine and restrictions for breaching their rules.

In the past there have been stories of clubs who’s owners actively held back the team from gaining promotion, because that would mean spending a significant amount of (their) money to play in the league above. For instance, promotion from the National League to EFL means replacing cheap to maintain 3D pitches with an expensive to maintain grass surface. Promotion to the PL is a no brainer because the money far outweighs the costs, even for clubs like Luton who needed to spend around 10m. It’s been said that some clubs would prefer not to qualify for the EL because the rewards do not justify the impact of playing Thu/Sun many weeks and having a squad which can manage that without risking PL survival and breaking FFP rules.

If a club’s owners are not lifelong fans, and do not see rapid financial or personal gain in the glory of getting to the next level, then they have an incentive in holding their club back until something changes that calculus. Might that be the case for Fosun?

 

[Axle]

This is the closest we've felt to actually creeping into that top bracket since Nuno's second season, and it's all about the finest margins. For example, if we'd been the ones to score a last second winner last Thursday instead of Man Utd then we'd currently be in 8th place, just 1 point off 6th. It feels great right now because so few of us thought we'd be near the top 10 after last summer, but here we are, and feasibly we could be even better.

But for us to break through and build, we have to keep hold of our best players, and that's where so many teams fall down. Leicester are the perfect example; their title winning season, they had a good but mostly ordinary team inflated to greatness by three players who hit a golden peak in Vardy, Kante and Mahrez. Right now, Neto, Cunha and Lemina are out versions, and they're all at the exact right age to push on to further excellence next year - but can we keep them, and Ait-Nouri, and Gomes? If we can, then top 6 isn't out of reach.

Good post but Lesta were a team who were much greater than tbe sium of their parts and their players had the season of their lives playing well as a unit (e.g. Huth, Schmeical). Winning the FA Cup showed that that was a team well steeped in success as well, so l wouldn’t say that they they just had one exceptional season: this was a club who did very well across a couple of seasons and did take advantage of the transition for the established clubs.

The problem is that when smaller clubs sell their players they never replace them with better. Arguably we have a better midfield now than last season but it’s not better than than the season we came up.

We are relatively better than last season but not absolutely better. Villa seem to be making a really good run of it (and l hope they make CL, it will be great to have a Midlands team upset the status quo again) but ultimately they can’t yet compete with the resources of Citeh, Arsenal or Liverpool.

It might well be a different matter for clubs like Wolves when the FFP kicks in and kicks out some of the clubs who are basically running their transfer operations on steroids

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

There's 85 league clubs who would be more than happy with getting 7-10th in the Prem.

The money involved in breaking the party is just mind blowing and further hamstrung by 'financial fair play' an oxymoron if ever I heard one.

Although I object to the principle of a European Super league, sometimes I'd really like them to leave and have a national league with a chance of winning, but then it would take the best players out the league.

I am very happy with Wolves at present, we are better than we have been for a good few seasons and despite a reluctance to invest and push on, Fosun have undoubtedly been good owners, mistakes yes, but much more has been right than wrong

 

[TriumphWolf]

Where we are at the moment, around mid-table, a side capable of giving anyone a bloody-nose on their day and the club being on a sound financial footing is a situation I am more than happy with, as others have said, when you have watched the side in every division with many ups and downs you always take time to enjoy the highlights when they come along.

The situation we are in at the moment is a million miles from watching the Old Gold at Aldershot Town

 

[Glow69]

I just enjoy going game by game. If the bigger picture turns out well then great, if it goes a pear shaped every now and then so be it. We've had both ends of the stick throughout the history and it'll rinse and repeat again!

We've had the best 8 year period for 40 odd years. Great matches, stupid old records broken, bogey teams beaten, talented footballers at last, European football. That'll do me.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

... but managed to build a new ground along the way and are currently top of the Championship.

That new ground is 22 years old

 

[cannockwolves]

If we do break the top 8-10th it's only going to be the exception - when you get a few quality players coming to their best at the same time. Like Neto, RAN, Cuhna type players - before they get picked off by the big boys.

If you had a class of 92 type home grown group coming through you may keep them together longer, but the big boys pick off the very best kids, so it's a long shot to get more than the odd one or two.

Then of course there is the challenge to keep any quality head coach. GON is starting to build a reputation, another year or two here its not impossible a West Ham, Spurs, Brighton, or Villa may think he is worth a shot especially if he has built something here.

When we sell Neto it's imperative to spend the money really well. Get £60m and find 4 or 5 quality players with it and you may continue to build, but how often to clubs have that sort of success in the market?

As for Fosun's orgional ambitions I am sure they have been scaled back. They now understand the game is largely rigged in favour of the established top 6 or 7 clubs, everyone else is fighting for the rest. We just can't generate the income needed, we couldn't match Leicester or Leeds commercial revenue when they were in the Prem, let alone Everton when they will have 54k every week.

They are also concerned with the geopolitics of their situation. They are not going to risk hundreds of millions on a new ground when the CCP could pull the trigger Taiwan over the next 5-10 years.

So, they want to stay in the prem thats for sure. They will continue to build slowly and may help a little at times, but unless new investors come in no one is upgrading the ground much.

I will be delighted with entertaining football and a top 8-12th finish, but I just done see any path to regular making the top ten.