Gary O'Neil - tactics

[lets all have a disco]

Let's hope so (re Gomes), although I would be saddened to see some of those you've mentioned leave.

Always thought when Neves and Moutinho left it would be start of the Mendes exodus....

 

[Golden Arrow]

Always thought when Neves and Moutinho left it would be start of the Mendes exodus....

I think its slowly coming home to roost that we have to part with prize assets to aid our PL survival.

Plus of course all our star players will have a desire to seek lucrative contracts and/or regularly play top European football.
Agents will be well aware of their clients wishes which is something our club can't offer right now.

 

[lets all have a disco]

I think its slowly coming home to roost that we have to part with prize assets to aid our PL survival.

Plus of course all our star players will have a desire to seek lucrative contracts and/or regularly play top European football.
Agents will be well aware of their clients wishes which is something our club can't offer right now.

Was always going to be the way for a club our size really.....we were spoilt really when we first game up.....

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Genuine question.
Which is the better midfield 3: Neves, Moutinho and Donk or Lemina, Gomes and Doyle?

I genuinely think our midfield is better now. It's a shame the defence and attack are worse.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Genuine question.
Which is the better midfield 3: Neves, Moutinho and Donk or Lemina, Gomes and Doyle?

In my view there is no black and white answer to that, it depends on the style and tactics that you wish to play (also which Mouts - the one from the first or the one from the last season).

I can unequivocally say that Ruben was better technically than Doyle and both João and Mario were better than Donk at pressing etc.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Always thought when Neves and Moutinho left it would be start of the Mendes exodus....

You are either wholeheartedly on the carousel or not....

 

[wolfslair]

Genuine question.
Which is the better midfield 3: Neves, Moutinho and Donk or Lemina, Gomes and Doyle?

First 2 years of neves and moutinho and donk……No contest at all……

 

[wolfslair]

Genuine question.
Which is the better midfield 3: Neves, Moutinho and Donk or Lemina, Gomes and Doyle?

Also my point was a comparison of the two that left to the one who came in during the summer.

Lemina and Gomes were signed in the Jan during operation survival

 

[lets all have a disco]

You are either wholeheartedly on the carousel or not....

The carousel has gone a bit rusty here......it's spinning in Saudi Arabia at the minute......

 

[Minimalist]

Also my point was a comparison of the two that left to the one who came in during the summer.

Lemina and Gomes were signed in the Jan during operation survival

Yeah, but I think it’s fair to say Gomes and Lemina were signed in preparation for Neves and Moutinho leaving. Doyle just cropped up as an opportunity and actually replaced Hodge in the squad.
I do agree with you and wicked that it probably largely depends on which aged Moutinho you have.

Also we’ve usually been at our best with a midfield 2.
Neves & Gomes could potentially have been a wonderful partnership.

 

[Minimalist]

The carousel has gone a bit rusty here......it's spinning in Saudi Arabia at the minute......

Who was the last Mendes client we signed?
Other than resigning Doc.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Who was the last Mendes client we signed?
Other than resigning Doc.

We haven't directly but I would definitely like us to keep a foot in with Jorge...

 

[WickedWolfie]

First 2 years of neves and moutinho and donk……No contest at all……

Ruben, that Mouts and Gomes would be wonderful....

 

[wolfslair]

Yeah, but I think it’s fair to say Gomes and Lemina were signed in preparation for Neves and Moutinho leaving. Doyle just cropped up as an opportunity and actually replaced Hodge in the squad.
I do agree with you and wicked that it probably largely depends on which aged Moutinho you have.

Also we’ve usually been at our best with a midfield 2.
Neves & Gomes could potentially have been a wonderful partnership.

Neves and Gomes would have been a top tier partnership!!!!

Gomes and Lemina was a great piece of succession planning. I will never say they weren’t and look at my posts about the Jan and their impact not just on keeping us up, but for getting us to be as strong as we are in the midfield area.

It was the concept of saying that gaining Doyle (had a great debut prem season) but losing neves and moutinho in the same win window is an upgrade which it patently isn’t or cannot be rationally explained to be

 

[wolfslair]

Ruben, that Mouts and Gomes would be wonderful....

Stuff of dreams!!

I think that three would have broken the top 6 in those first two years!!!

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

So a season on from the start are we any clearer?

Seemed like he quickly decided we didn't have the players for a 4. Sadly it also seems that we don't have the players for a 5 without Dawson.

His determination to keep Semedo suggests to me that he wants to stick with a 5 and play Semedo and hopefully RAN as WBs again next season.

Not sure if the idea of Lemina playing a bit deeper and having 2 other midfielders who are more free is a plan, or just trying to make do for now. Likewise Cunha seems to play wherever he feels like!

Need a clear plan (or two) for next season!

 

[DanishWolf]

So a season on from the start are we any clearer?

Seemed like he quickly decided we didn't have the players for a 4. Sadly it also seems that we don't have the players for a 5 without Dawson.

His determination to keep Semedo suggests to me that he wants to stick with a 5 and play Semedo and hopefully RAN as WBs again next season.

Not sure if the idea of Lemina playing a bit deeper and having 2 other midfielders who are more free is a plan, or just trying to make do for now. Likewise Cunha seems to play wherever he feels like!

Need a clear plan (or two) for next season!

Well summarised. I've no doubt GON is a talented manager with good tactical knowledge. But part of what comes with experience is a clear tactical identity. He clearly doesn't have that...yet.
But hopefully he'll get there fast.

 

[groundhogwolf]

Well summarised. I've no doubt GON is a talented manager with good tactical knowledge. But part of what comes with experience is a clear tactical identity. He clearly doesn't have that...yet.
But hopefully he'll get there fast.

One win in 10 games and that was Luton, way to many excuses being thrown around, we started the season with a paper thin squad that was overused and eventually ran out of steam, the indecision re Europe or FA cup cost the club millions in lost revenue and us the enjoyment of winning a few games, not sure who decided to go for both, but it was the wrong call.

 

[FJRWolf]

Over the season you have to say he's done ok overall.
First 6 games he was terrible, looked completely out of his depth, I was all for dumping him. Then from the City game looked like he'd got it together, some great results and we were actually fun to watch again.
The last 2 months we have reverted again. Obviously some mitigation due to injuries/squad depth but while we have been short handed up front we have still scored goals, it's at the other end we are so poor. Even with Dawson we were quite leaky, without him we are a bombscare at the back. I would have expected over that time for Gary to get a grip on our defence, lots of individual errors but no cohesion or leadership, it's a real worry for next season imo.
While we're all clamouring for a striker and probably a Neto replacement, I think we really need a solid CB, whether in a 3 or a back 4 to supplement/replace Dawson.
I wonder if we also need a good defensive coach to help O'Neil.

 

[groundhogwolf]

Over the season you have to say he's done ok overall.
First 6 games he was terrible, looked completely out of his depth, I was all for dumping him. Then from the City game looked like he'd got it together, some great results and we were actually fun to watch again.
The last 2 months we have reverted again. Obviously some mitigation due to injuries/squad depth but while we have been short handed up front we have still scored goals, it's at the other end we are so poor. Even with Dawson we were quite leaky, without him we are a bombscare at the back. I would have expected over that time for Gary to get a grip on our defence, lots of individual errors but no cohesion or leadership, it's a real worry for next season imo.
While we're all clamouring for a striker and probably a Neto replacement, I think we really need a solid CB, whether in a 3 or a back 4 to supplement/replace Dawson.
I wonder if we also need a good defensive coach to help O'Neil.

Unfortunately a good defensive coach would need a few good defensive players to work with, since our arrival in the PL we our goals for+against have been 47/46, 51/40, 35/52, 38/43, 31/58, 50/63 in 6 years a plus goal difference twice.

 

[Sketchead]

He’s good at setting up a team to sit on the edge of their box and breaking with Neto and others.

As soon as Neto gets injured, that doesn’t work and he can’t set up the team to do anything else well.

Not sustainable. We’re a nice club so he’ll get the start of next season, but I’d be shocked if he’s still here at Christmas. Suspect we’ll be looking for another manager by October.

 

[Supadavewolf]

Unfortunately a good defensive coach would need a few good defensive players to work with, since our arrival in the PL we our goals for+against have been 47/46, 51/40, 35/52, 38/43, 31/58, 50/63 in 6 years a plus goal difference twice.

Likely - in fact, almost certainly - to be more than 63 given the away trip to Liverpool

 

[Supadavewolf]

I would have expected over that time for Gary to get a grip on our defence, lots of individual errors but no cohesion or leadership, it's a real worry for next season imo.
While we're all clamouring for a striker and probably a Neto replacement, I think we really need a solid CB, whether in a 3 or a back 4 to supplement/replace Dawson.
I wonder if we also need a good defensive coach to help O'Neil.

This.

 

[groundhogwolf]

Likely - in fact, almost certainly - to be more than 63 given the away trip to Liverpool

At least JL season goal difference record will remain intact……..gulp.

 

[WickedWolfie]

At least JL season goal difference record will remain intact……..gulp.

Season? Half season.....

 

[groundhogwolf]

Season? Half season.....

Please comment was obviously in jest, take a look a context.

 

[Flea]

GON must adress our obvious defensive weaknesses this summer.
It will make or break GONs future at us.
I´m not sure he can do it..but he has earned the chance of trying IMHO.

 

[Kingswood Wolf]

Yes, I'd like to see some tactics. I live in hope.

 

[Ches78]

He’s good at setting up a team to sit on the edge of their box and breaking with Neto and others.

As soon as Neto gets injured, that doesn’t work and he can’t set up the team to do anything else well.

Not sustainable. We’re a nice club so he’ll get the start of next season, but I’d be shocked if he’s still here at Christmas. Suspect we’ll be looking for another manager by October.

To be fair, that's largely been our tactic ever since we got promoted - sit back and defend then hope someone like Neto, Jota, Jimenez, Traore or Neves produces some magic... We're incapable of dominating a team, the more possession we have the worse we get, all huff and puff.

 

[The Clock]

I’ve just read that GON was disappointed in first half because our desire to keep possession meant we were playing too far back.
Well, that’s been the case since Christmas.
He must have his iPad upside down because City play keep ball but with forward thinking players just outside the opposition’s 18 yard box.
We play it with our defenders often just outside our 6 yard box.
It isn’t rocket science.
He is then quoted as saying the players were more pragmatic in the second half and things got better.
Well Gary - if you spent more time watching the game instead of a replay or whatever it is you do, it would have been blindingly obvious as it was to everyone else watching.
Question Is - if you were so aware of it- why didn’t you change it?

 

[Ned]

One win in 10 games and that was Luton, way to many excuses being thrown around, we started the season with a paper thin squad that was overused and eventually ran out of steam, the indecision re Europe or FA cup cost the club millions in lost revenue and us the enjoyment of winning a few games, not sure who decided to go for both, but it was the wrong call.

I’ve never got this weird fa cup or Europe thing that people keep going on about. We played a total of 5 games in the cup, would have been 4 if it we didn’t have the replay. How many extra games do you think we would have had to play next season if we had qualified in Europe? Then what, concentrate on Europe or the league?

We needed, imo, to manage player minutes a little better but also needed to not do silly things like play Hwang when he was injured, for example. That said, weakening the squad in January was clearly the major factor here.

 

[Mugwump]

I’ve never got this weird fa cup or Europe thing that people keep going on about. We played a total of 5 games in the cup, would have been 4 if it we didn’t have the replay. How many extra games do you think we would have had to play next season if we had qualified in Europe? Then what, concentrate on Europe or the league?

We needed, imo, to manage player minutes a little better but also needed to not do silly things like play Hwang when he was injured, for example. That said, weakening the squad in January was clearly the major factor here.

Or force Neto to stay on the field injured

 

[WickedWolfie]

Please comment was obviously in jest, take a look a context.

Ok, it wasn't a dig incidentally but some folk forget how little time he was actually here.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Or force Neto to stay on the field injured

Those were rather Lagesque which is worrying.... Still, at least Dr Death has gone....

 

[Mugwump]

Those were rather Lagesque which is worrying.... Still, at least Dr Death has gone....

I think he was a manager just desperate to keep our good run of form going.

 

[Minimalist]

I think he’s gone too far with the philosophy of players interchanging positions.
It worked with RAN having a bit of a free role, but midfielders constantly dropping into defence and fullbacks in central midfield all gets a bit messy.
I think the players would benefit from a slightly more rigid formation.

 

[Perton Wolf]

I think he’s gone too far with the philosophy of players interchanging positions.
It worked with RAN having a bit of a free role, but midfielders constantly dropping into defence and fullbacks in central midfield all gets a bit messy.
I think the players would benefit from a slightly more rigid formation.

Agreed, needs to be a bit more pragmatic.

 

[Sketchead]

To be fair, that's largely been our tactic ever since we got promoted - sit back and defend then hope someone like Neto, Jota, Jimenez, Traore or Neves produces some magic... We're incapable of dominating a team, the more possession we have the worse we get, all huff and puff.

Yep true, the main difference for me is Nuno really knew how to set up a team. We were so well drilled off the ball, so even when we were struggling to create, at times watching us move the opposition around (who had the ball) was actually fascinating to watch.

We’re a bit of a mess shape-wise these days.

 

[Slothmonkey]

Yep true, the main difference for me is Nuno really knew how to set up a team. We were so well drilled off the ball, so even when we were struggling to create, at times watching us move the opposition around (who had the ball) was actually fascinating to watch.

We’re a bit of a mess shape-wise these days.

Agree with this. Watching us the first few years under Nuno engineer the opposition was amazing to watch. We rarely got caught on the back foot as we do now in the transition. We still could not dominate teams but we were generally solid.

 

[SuperGran]

Yep true, the main difference for me is Nuno really knew how to set up a team. We were so well drilled off the ball, so even when we were struggling to create, at times watching us move the opposition around (who had the ball) was actually fascinating to watch.

We’re a bit of a mess shape-wise these days.

Nuno was provided the players to play how he wanted. He’s never been able to replicate that at clubs since wolves