Gary O'Neil - tactics

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Just interested in people's opinions (given that this is supposedly a tactics thread, rather than a general moan).

Did we change anything at half time, or did Liverpool's tactics just push us much deeper?

Was there a reason anyone could fathom to bring on Fabio rather than Sasa?

What made Neto go from being the best player on the pitch first half to largely anonymous?

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

The others?

Not sure any have turned on him !

What’s the obsession with wanting him out? We aren’t attracting a better msnsger

So you will still think he will keep us up when luton beat us??

Big Sam would make us defensively solid. His last full season did wonders at Everton

 

[Will Wolf]

Stourport, it's the chicken and the egg. The fans did back the club and players today; it's not the bickering on here or at Molineux that lost us that game - it was the manager and the team. Had we carried on 2nd half like the first there would be zero bickering on here, regardless of the result. We can only comment (bicker) on what we see; what I see is a manager out of his depth leading a team, leaderless on the pitch, with no no 9, and leading us to relegation.

I agree but we do have a no 9. Problem is he was sat on the bench vs Liverpool

 

[ADBS65]

Just interested in people's opinions (given that this is supposedly a tactics thread, rather than a general moan).

Did we change anything at half time, or did Liverpool's tactics just push us much deeper?

Was there a reason anyone could fathom to bring on Fabio rather than Sasa?

What made Neto go from being the best player on the pitch first half to largely anonymous?

No subs, but we set up IMO to defend knowing they would come at us and presumably look at counter attacking them. This drew everybody back behind the ball from kick off which I assume was the GON tactic BUT this left no outlet when we had the ball.
This critically impacted on the crowd as we had nothing to cheer. The tension was palpable and you knew it was only a matter of time before they scored. Rest is history and as I’ve posted elsewhere, Bournemouth fans got tired of unfathomable substitutions and tactics to defend leads for long periods, with post match blame invariably allotted to the players. This seems to be playing out here.

GON got it right in the first half, whether the players/subs could maintain that tempo in the 2nd half is arguable. I would have preferred we tried to maintain the 1st half style of play and use 5 subs on a 1 for 1 basis than try and defend from kick off. Result may well have been the same, but it would have at least been entertaining.

 

[Stourport wolf]

I agree but we do have a no 9. Problem is he was sat on the bench vs Liverpool

To be truthful, we have had this problem since Raul was injured and in my own opinion, Cunha although a decent player, was never going to be the answer to our striker problem.. I'm not sure, but this probably had more to do, with keeping Mr Mendes happy, than what was good for Wolves.

 

[Will Wolf]

To be truthful, we have had this problem since Raul was injured and in my own opinion, Cunha although a decent player, was never going to be the answer to our striker problem.. I'm not sure, but this probably had more to do, with keeping Mr Mendes happy, than what was good for Wolves.

I was thinking about Sasa, he will score goals for us IMO.
Yes Cunha isn’t a no 9 but offers creativity, he’ll get assists but very few goals

 

[Stourport wolf]

I was thinking about Sasa, he will score goals for us IMO.
Yes Cunha isn’t a no 9 but offers creativity, he’ll get assists but very few goals

Yes I am hopeful with Sasa too.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Also just btw, where are we going with this.

We looked good in a 4231 with Bellegarde as the '10' and Cunha up top, but I don't think many people see Cunha in that position. Look at his excellent play for the goal and his hopeless miss. That sums him up really. So how are we fitting in both players?

 

[Coshamwolves]

Has Sasa had a knock or something?..was at the game, but did`nt even see him warming up

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Has Sasa had a knock or something?..was at the game, but did`nt even see him warming up

He was out warming up before the game, I was hoping he'd go and stand near Peter Crouch so I could compare them! Didn't notice during the game. I guess Fabio for Cunha was a bit more 'like for like', but it certainly didn't work out.

 

[Redhillwolf]

Said on another thread but my concern is that GON is always adjusting how we line up and play dependant on the opposition which I agree with to a point but when things change at half time he has no plan B. He always states this in his pressers. This squad is good enough to coach his own style and implement that. He has spent his whole managerial career so far trying not to lose games rather than trying to win. Will he be able to change and be pro-active rather than re-active?….

 

[Stourport wolf]

Said on another thread but my concern is that GON is always adjusting how we line up and play dependant on the opposition which I agree with to a point but when things change at half time he has no plan B. He always states this in his pressers. This squad is good enough to coach his own style and implement that. He has spent his whole managerial career so far trying not to lose games rather than trying to win. Will he be able to change and be pro-active rather than re-active?….

A decent question, only time will tell.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Nuno kept the same team for record amount of games and it worked

Stuck to a philosophy and made it work

Oneil changes his mind like the weather

His inexperience is costing us, his lack of identity and subs is costing us. Deciding to defend 1-0 lead probably the dumbest thing since Saunders was here.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Said on another thread but my concern is that GON is always adjusting how we line up and play dependant on the opposition which I agree with to a point but when things change at half time he has no plan B. He always states this in his pressers. This squad is good enough to coach his own style and implement that. He has spent his whole managerial career so far trying not to lose games rather than trying to win. Will he be able to change and be pro-active rather than re-active?….

Don't believe you can level that at him. Any manager who doesn't have different plans for different opposition isn't doing their job. I'm afraid we got him to be a manager to grind out 40 points, look at Everton today, Dyche is trying to do that. For one thing we needed better options to set the agenda. I mean they did get told this.....

If we can't maintain the pressing 4231 of the first half, we definitely need a better plan for later in the game though.

 

[HessonWolf]

Bringing back the kevin doyle is magic song…

Gaz O’Neil is ****ing tragic
Gaz O’Neil is ****ing sh*te
His football will send us down
And lopeteguis right

 

[Andywolf74]

To be truthful, we have had this problem since Raul was injured and in my own opinion, Cunha although a decent player, was never going to be the answer to our striker problem.. I'm not sure, but this probably had more to do, with keeping Mr Mendes happy, than what was good for Wolves.

I think it was a mistake by JL to spend £43 million on a forward who wasn’t scoring regularly and who’s best attributes are running with the ball at pace and taking players on.
At the time, less than half that fee would have probably got Antonio from West Ham who’s finishing and ability to hold the ball up are better.

 

[Stourport wolf]

Bringing back the kevin doyle is magic song…

Gaz O’Neil is ****ing tragic
Gaz O’Neil is ****ing sh*te
His football will send us down
And lopeteguis brown turtle neck pullover is too tight!!!

I hope that makes 316 giggle.

 

[AndyY]

GON clearly hates the idea of any of our players having a creative bone in their body. Explains the HT team talks, bet he told our lads to row it back today and focus on defending their own box instead of attacking theirs. That ended well.

What about the first half, then, was he not responsible for that creative display.

 

[wolfslair]

Ok but surely your first concern is why we were so different in the second? It can’t be on Gary or anything he said.

Sadly Vancouver it can mate, it isn’t the determining factor, but it is a large one.

At half Time he and his coaches are meant to inspire and motivate, but also coach and make adjustments to the plan or strategy to keep us in the ascendancy on sat or even lift them to get back into a game.

I think he says “keep it tight and structured for the first ten minutes and we go again after that” that is based of what he says in his interviews. He is obsessed with rigidity and the lads being too expressive and lose in movement to find space.

He is a pure text book coach, he hasn’t got it in him to influence a game once the other team get on top, it is why we conceed so many hand so quickly in the second half. The game is way too fast and technical for him in the dugout.

Did you not see his face and how happy he was when Joe Cole complimented him for the “quality cross” in training…… he looks and feels like a competition winner….

 

[loppers86]

Absolutely but in the context of what he said its pretty clear he blames Lopetegui:

"That is just the way they have been playing for an awful long time. So, trying to take that unpredictability out as much as we can until we get to the final third"

he’s achieved that already. we consistently and predictably get zero points in a game.

 

[Redhillwolf]

Coach watch: Marcelo Gallardo - The Coaches' Voice

It was Marcelo Gallardo’s body of work at River Plate that led to him being considered a future Barcelona manager. Our professional scouts assess him

www.coachesvoice.com

Holding out for a Prem job apparently…plays technical attacking football but solid defensively aswell. Plus we now have a South American contingent and don’t think he would cost much having only managed in Argentina. Go get him Mr Hobbs and let’s have an enjoyable season please!

 

[StaffordWolf]

Coach watch: Marcelo Gallardo - The Coaches' Voice

It was Marcelo Gallardo’s body of work at River Plate that led to him being considered a future Barcelona manager. Our professional scouts assess him

www.coachesvoice.com

Holding out for a Prem job apparently…plays technical attacking football but solid defensively aswell. Plus we now have a South American contingent and don’t think he would cost much having only managed in Argentina. Go get him Mr Hobbs and let’s have an enjoyable season please!

He's missing that most important characteristic of every great coach. He's not English.

 

[AndyY]

Sadly Vancouver it can mate, it isn’t the determining factor, but it is a large one.

At half Time he and his coaches are meant to inspire and motivate, but also coach and make adjustments to the plan or strategy to keep us in the ascendancy on sat or even lift them to get back into a game.

I think he says “keep it tight and structured for the first ten minutes and we go again after that” that is based of what he says in his interviews. He is obsessed with rigidity and the lads being too expressive and lose in movement to find space.

He is a pure text book coach, he hasn’t got it in him to influence a game once the other team get on top, it is why we conceed so many hand so quickly in the second half. The game is way too fast and technical for him in the dugout.

Did you not see his face and how happy he was when Joe Cole complimented him for the “quality cross” in training…… he looks and feels like a competition winner….

It is not down to GON and SD etc that:
1. makes Cunha leap like a salmon for a ball that Podence would even have to bend down for
2. has Kilman and Dawson on each others toes for one of the Liverpool goals
3. has Sa making (another) brain fart decision
4. has Cunha shooting over the bar rather than squaring to Neto who was in acres of space

That is all down to individual players making poor decisions or mistakes; the players also have to take responsibility on the pitch.

We are just 5 games in with no pre-season, and GON may not be the right person in charge but it is too early to crucify him yet.

 

[wolfslair]

It is not down to GON and SD etc that:
1. makes Cunha leap like a salmon for a ball that Podence would even have to bend down for
2. has Kilman and Dawson on each others toes for one of the Liverpool goals
3. has Sa making (another) brain fart decision
4. has Cunha shooting over the bar rather than squaring to Neto who was in acres of space

That is all down to individual players making poor decisions or mistakes; the players also have to take responsibility on the pitch.

We are just 5 games in with no pre-season, and GON may not be the right person in charge but it is too early to crucify him yet.

No pre-season???? We played, Celtic, Luton and Rennes who we blew off the park with an amazing attacking performance……..

GO was given a great handover and the tactics and set up JL had for United was a fantastic blue print for success.

Sadly many of the errors and positional bits are because of what is being coached.

In elite sport, if it is clear he isn’t good enough it isn’t too early to sack him!!!

 

[AndyY]

No pre-season???? We played, Celtic, Luton and Rennes who we blew off the park with an amazing attacking performance……..

GO was given a great handover and the tactics and set up JL had for United was a fantastic blue print for success.

Sadly many of the errors and positional bits are because of what is being coached.

In elite sport, if it is clear he isn’t good enough it isn’t too early to sack him!!!

No pre-season under GON.

It isnt clear he isnt good enough yet; we have played well, very well, in parts and now we have 4 new faces to bed in, and hopefully Sasa being fit enough to start soon; GON may have to go, but not yet, he deserves until Fulham away for me. Knee jerk reactions rarely work.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Just putting it out there, GON is getting the team looking awesome in the first 45 set up

But clearly hes missing a trick , they are gassed he needs to make changes straight away he must know the fitness of players

bellegarde and hwang looked shot

as did lemina


We need to be clinical if we can play a 90 like the first half excellent

Hes not at fault for the players not scoring, he sets them up they get in the positions they must score thats on them.

he is at fault for not managing in game, he struggles when the oppoo change up. I already had said at half time we need to be wary before diaz and nunes come on. Diaz comes on, semedo is isolate sitting basically at CB hwang non existent and diaz is running down the right constantly.


Then after rans injury , salah starts getting a lot of joy,

but importantly you bring doyle and traore in, and then we lose control of the midfield once elliot and others come on

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Just interested in people's opinions (given that this is supposedly a tactics thread, rather than a general moan).

Did we change anything at half time, or did Liverpool's tactics just push us much deeper?

Was there a reason anyone could fathom to bring on Fabio rather than Sasa?

What made Neto go from being the best player on the pitch first half to largely anonymous?

Diaz was bought on they got on the front foot and we could press them out, we stopped pressing i would say largely due to tiredness,

At the point fabio came on for cunha game was already lost to me. We had already capitualted and set in, ran going down didnt help.

Fabio was bought on to press which he did chase around, i would have bought them both on, for cunha and hwang, but semedo was so isolated they bought on doc who was blowing

 

[Bankswolf The Third]

Just interested in people's opinions (given that this is supposedly a tactics thread, rather than a general moan).

Did we change anything at half time, or did Liverpool's tactics just push us much deeper?

Was there a reason anyone could fathom to bring on Fabio rather than Sasa?

What made Neto go from being the best player on the pitch first half to largely anonymous?

Overloaded the right hand side hence the Doc sub to support him
Also because we played so deep it allowed their new boy Szoboszlai to completely control midfield they had one less midfielder in the second half yet bossed it, why? Simple we were too deep.

Bellegarde tired but was taken off too late.

If it was me I would have brought on Sarabia for Bellegarde on the 60th minute have him go against Szoboszlai and find creative passes and runs rather than the tatic we did do which was give it to Neto on the halfway line and make him run with it.

Also Neto was too deep same as Hwang, the whole system second half was park the bus with no outlet whatsoever, we always do it and its infuriating .

 

[Golden Arrow]

Just putting it out there, GON is getting the team looking awesome in the first 45 set up

But clearly hes missing a trick , they are gassed he needs to make changes straight away he must know the fitness of players

bellegarde and hwang looked shot

as did lemina


We need to be clinical if we can play a 90 like the first half excellent

Hes not at fault for the players not scoring, he sets them up they get in the positions they must score thats on them.

he is at fault for not managing in game, he struggles when the oppoo change up. I already had said at half time we need to be wary before diaz and nunes come on. Diaz comes on, semedo is isolate sitting basically at CB hwang non existent and diaz is running down the right constantly.


Then after rans injury , salah starts getting a lot of joy,

but importantly you bring doyle and traore in, and then we lose control of the midfield once elliot and others come on

Can't see any team being capable of playing 90 mins at full pelt like we did in that first half on Saturday. It was clear early in the second that some players were spent and not able to be as effective as in the first.
Personally, I'd settle for a more defensive first half and playing on the break if it guaranteed a good second period.

 

[Wolf316]

Coach watch: Marcelo Gallardo - The Coaches' Voice

It was Marcelo Gallardo’s body of work at River Plate that led to him being considered a future Barcelona manager. Our professional scouts assess him

www.coachesvoice.com

Holding out for a Prem job apparently…plays technical attacking football but solid defensively aswell. Plus we now have a South American contingent and don’t think he would cost much having only managed in Argentina. Go get him Mr Hobbs and let’s have an enjoyable season please!

He’d be a fantastic appointment which is why it won’t happen.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Can't see any team being capable of playing 90 mins at full pelt like we did in that first half on Saturday. It was clear early in the second that some players were spent and not able to be as effective as in the first.
Personally, I'd settle for a more defensive first half and playing on the break if it guaranteed a good second period.

Thing is I said at half time, we'd been brilliant but we wouldn't be able to play that way for 90 minutes. To me in those circumstances we ask those players for 15 more minutes and sub the ones who are spent (Bellegarde and Cunha were never going to last the game). However we seemed to go deep from the very start. So was that to protect the players from getting too tired, because of their change, or just because we wanted to sit on the lead (which was never going to happen)?

 

[Fifty Niner]

Diaz was bought on they got on the front foot and we could press them out, we stopped pressing i would say largely due to tiredness,

At the point fabio came on for cunha game was already lost to me. We had already capitualted and set in, ran going down didnt help.

Fabio was bought on to press which he did chase around, i would have bought them both on, for cunha and hwang, but semedo was so isolated they bought on doc who was blowing

Radio comms spotted very soon after the restart we looked like settling for the 1-0 or, after Liverpool scored, the draw. Sa’s clearance was poor for their second but for Robertson to pick it up in the centre circle and finish unchallenged by any Wolves player is what GON referred to as the unpredictable nature of the team, doing their own thing etc.

This would imply that they’ve not been coached as a disciplined unit and that they need to be unpredictable in the final third, something they haven’t been for four seasons including this one. GON’s team therefore has to get the team in a disciplined structure until the final third where they need to be more unpredictable and, of course, actually score goals.

Pre match GON had also commented he was confident that he could get the team scoring goals including Cunha. It’s a big workload and he’s certainly got a lot of mistakes from previous managers to sort out!

 

[Bill McCai]

We won seven home games under Lopetegui last season - all clean sheets. There must have been some structure in place.

Wolves 1 - West Ham 0
Wolves 3 Liverpool 0
Wolves 1 Spurs 0
Wolves 1 Chelsea 0
Wolves 2 Brentford 0
Wolves 2 Palace 0
Wolves 1 Villa 0

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

We won seven home games under Lopetegui last season - all clean sheets. There must have been some structure in place.

Wolves 1 - West Ham 0
Wolves 3 Liverpool 0
Wolves 1 Spurs 0
Wolves 1 Chelsea 0
Wolves 2 Brentford 0
Wolves 2 Palace 0
Wolves 1 Villa 0

It's absolutely pathetic for O'Neil to continually talk as if he walked into a car crash. I defended him against criticisms of his pre-match stuff, but his post-match comments are consistently ridiculous.

People might see it differently, but I don't really see the CHs 'playing loose' as costing us the two goals that turned the game. For me RAN is maybe the one who goes out of position in the first one. On the second, it's hard as they're trying to get the shape back quickly, but I'd say Bueno should be with Salah and Gomes fails to track Robertson's run.

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

Just interested in people's opinions (given that this is supposedly a tactics thread, rather than a general moan).

Did we change anything at half time, or did Liverpool's tactics just push us much deeper?

Was there a reason anyone could fathom to bring on Fabio rather than Sasa?

What made Neto go from being the best player on the pitch first half to largely anonymous?

Liverpool pushed the full back up and took off their most defensive of their midfielders, which no doubt done to try and "force" us back but we came out with pretty much that mindset of we'll try and hold what we've got now and I bet Klopp couldn't believe his luck.

Far too early to do that and as soon as they inevitably equalised we'd lost all real momentum we had going forwards.

We should have done the exact thing Brighton did to us, come out like a freight train, for the first 10-15 minutes targeting the young centre back in particular who was struggling and with Klopp's tactical changes he was left even more exposed. If we'd have gotten a goal, we'd have won that game, if not, you can then think about managing the game with the subs as we tire.

We did that against Utd but Cunha missed his chance and then the subs were too late, should have been as soon as Utd started to put together a couple of consecutive attacks.

As for Sasa over Fabio, given how we were playing, with an isolated striker expected to hold the ball up against an inexperienced kid, there isn't really any argument for Fabio, the young CB wouldn't have had a clue how to play a 6'7 forward without repeated fouling.

 

[Corporate Wolf]

He's missing that most important characteristic of every great coach. He's not English.

He's also got to look at that important characteristic of every prospective Wolves coach - are you prepared to believe what Jeff Shi & Fosun tell you at the job interview.

 

[Corporate Wolf]

Liverpool pushed the full back up and took off their most defensive of their midfielders, which no doubt done to try and "force" us back but we came out with pretty much that mindset of we'll try and hold what we've got now and I bet Klopp couldn't believe his luck.

Far too early to do that and as soon as they inevitably equalised we'd lost all real momentum we had going forwards.

We should have done the exact thing Brighton did to us, come out like a freight train, for the first 10-15 minutes targeting the young centre back in particular who was struggling and with Klopp's tactical changes he was left even more exposed. If we'd have gotten a goal, we'd have won that game, if not, you can then think about managing the game with the subs as we tire.

We did that against Utd but Cunha missed his chance and then the subs were too late, should have been as soon as Utd started to put together a couple of consecutive attacks.

As for Sasa over Fabio, given how we were playing, with an isolated striker expected to hold the ball up against an inexperienced kid, there isn't really any argument for Fabio, the young CB wouldn't have had a clue how to play a 6'7 forward without repeated fouling.

I said this in another thread and to be fair I actually acknowledged GON's proactive substitution to try to counter this. Liverpool were clearly overloading on Semedo and he brought Doherty on for Hwang.

 

[StaffordWolf]

He's also got to look at that important characteristic of every prospective Wolves coach - are you prepared to believe what Jeff Shi & Fosun tell you at the job interview.

Interview checklist:

1. English
2. Gullible
3. ???

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I said this in another thread and to be fair I actually acknowledged GON's proactive substitution to try to counter this. Liverpool were clearly overloading on Semedo and he brought Doherty on for Hwang.

Not sure I'd say that was proactive, it took 15 minutes and as you say it was very obvious. I guess what I'd ask is, was there a way of pinning Roberson back? Given that Doc doesn't really have the legs for it, would that have been the time to go 541 and maybe bring Toti on? Doc didn't really seem to provide much defensive cover to me, albeit you could argue none of the goals came from that threat.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Should have changed at 45, would have took bellegarde straight off, clearly hasnt ran a press or push like this at stasbourg, big difference between league 1 an dprem.

Equally cunha i would have shipped by 45 or 50

Sasa to come on, bellegarde off for traore.

It was clear they were going to overload the right, with traore it would have been at least ability to try and press sbozolai

frustrating that ran went down as salah then opened up

Say what you want about ran, but with neto infront of him, he wasnt maurading as much (still maurded and did well), but wasnt exposed and man on man, when a player shapes up hes so good at nicking the ball,