Lopetegui

[Wignall 3-0]

No it isn't obvious- Julen and Hobbs (who have far more access than you or I) were clearly under the impression there would be money to spend later in the window, once sales had been completed. The sales have now been done- but there are no signings forthcoming.

That's not on Julen- he held up his end of the agreement. That's on Jeff.

Not on Jeff, its on Fosun. They turned off the money taps. And we can probably pin down the very day of that decision. I think we were trying to sign an Italian player (?) but missed out because a pending sale had not completed. So a few £ million in bridging from Fosun would have got it over the line. Also why seriously go for Scott a few times knowing you cannot fund the upfront payment? We tried because we thought Fosun would back us. Fosun have stopped all financial support.

 

[groundhogwolf]

But if you have a few days at the start of the holiday in Rhyl, might Prestatyn seem much better thereafter?! The new journey starts for all of us.

Why do you think my avatar is Groundhog Wolf

 

[Mighty Thor]

I think I'd rather have big Sam than o'neil

That appointment will come in February. Just give it time.

 

[Ercall Wolves]

The performances were frequently awful and rarely outstanding (count on one hand, being generous). He kept an underperforming team up, yeah, but let's not pretend it was pretty

He did the job he had to do perfectly
Look at the quality of football we have been playing pre season.

 

[JJ59]

Says who mate?

TalkSport, sorry for the late response.

 

[Wolf316]

The performances were frequently awful and rarely outstanding (count on one hand, being generous). He kept an underperforming team up, yeah, but let's not pretend it was pretty

Yet he played Nunos Wolves off the park.

 

[Wolf316]

TalkSport, sorry for the late response.

Leaked from O Neil to Alex Crook?

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

That appointment will come in February. Just give it time.

I dread to think who’s coming in November then lol

 

[Leigh72]

I'm just so bored of all of them, I had a feeling a few weeks ago this was coming, he doesn't want to be here for whatever reason.

 

[Fifty Niner]

Doesn't anyone want to join my alternative reality where O'Neil will turn out a genius appointment? I mean, you never know! To start me off, I'm going to choose to believe that his football was only turgid because of the players he had to work with, and his brief to keep them up at all costs. (After all, that's not far off what Lopetegui did!)

To quote Lord Blackadder’s response to Lord Melchet’s joke,‘I thank god I wore my corset because I think my sides have split’.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

100%. He is adept at making a silk purse out of a sow's ear (so as to speak).

Christ almighty, Allardyce is the very definition of a busted flush. His last two jobs have been disastrous.

 

[Golden_Wolf]

What time do you think we'll get the announcement that he's gone?

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

The interview between Julen and Balague was the last straw according to ITV.

Can 100% understand the club’s point of view, with them thinking I suspect that this could easily be seen as Gross Misconduct.

 

[Rangiora Wolf]

That sums it up, Nuno was a lighthouse in a sea of ****e appointments by Fosun.
Without him, I'm not convinced we wouldn't still be a middling Championship club.

100% agree. Without him we wouldnt have attracted the type of players to get us out of the champ.

 

[WickedWolfie]

The interview between Julen and Balague was the last straw according to ITV.

Can 100% understand the club’s point of view, with them thinking I suspect that this could easily be seen as Gross Misconduct.

I notice that they didn't try that. Legal advice no doubt. Too much Shi/Fosun dirty washing might come out in Court.

 

[WV10Wolf]

The interview between Julen and Balague was the last straw according to ITV.

Can 100% understand the club’s point of view, with them thinking I suspect that this could easily be seen as Gross Misconduct.

That much of a last straw it’s took them 3 weeks to make a decision.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

GON by October, to be replaced by Alan Knill

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

I notice that they didn't try that. Legal advice no doubt. Too much Shi/Fosun dirty washing might come out in Court.

No, it's probably just a cost/gain/time calculation.

 

[Lawndog]

Followed/supported Wolves since 1972.....seen some great times..... and some bad.......but, tonight I feel genuinely sad....and it's not something I've felt before....

 

[Mighty Thor]

Not on Jeff, its on Fosun. They turned off the money taps. And we can probably pin down the very day of that decision. I think we were trying to sign an Italian player (?) but missed out because a pending sale had not completed. So a few £ million in bridging from Fosun would have got it over the line. Also why seriously go for Scott a few times knowing you cannot fund the upfront payment? We tried because we thought Fosun would back us. Fosun have stopped all financial support.

Fosun didn’t turn off the money taps. The markets turned them off on them. They have a huge portfolio of ****e investments they have borrowed far too much money against and now they have to either repay or refinance those debts when lots of their assets are worth less than the debt against them. Ie they have negative equity value and even selling them won’t release cash into the mothership. Refinancing debts when you are a secretive, opaque, over levered Chinese investment firm with a questionable governance structure and a crap track record ain’t easy. Infact it’s currently impossible, in the international credit markets at least. Maybe they can get more cash from state owned banks in China to deal with near term maturity?! they are prob in that too big to fail category for China but they are no different to HNA, evergrande, country garden, the clown who owned house of Fraser before Ashley and his sanpower **** show, the clown who owned WBA, the clown who owned AC Milan, etc etc. You see a theme here?

The post 2008 free money party has finished. You can’t just keep borrowing with no regard for what your balance sheet looks like and the market won’t tolerate additional borrowing just to cover your interest bill. And for these Chinese investment companies they are going to have to shed assets and deal with the reality that they have assets but very little liquidity and far far far too much debt.

 

[oldgold4ever]

Surely the irony of this saga is not lost… a manager unable to sign his agreed target is being paid off, along with his coaching staff, a similar amount to the short fall in the Scott deal. It seriously beggars belief from Jeff Shi and Fosun.

I have followed the club since the early 70’s and every feint ray of success has always been extinguished in the boardroom , none more so than the incumbent numbskulls that sit there today.

I fear there’s no way back for Shi or Fosun with the fans after this self inflicted catastrophe.

 

[oldgold4ever]

Followed/supported Wolves since 1972.....seen some great times..... and some bad.......but, tonight I feel genuinely sad....and it's not something I've felt before....

Same here.

 

[floydstreet]

Probably worried about the backlash? That or sitting down with the players etc first?

Surely surely the players have been consulted a little here
I.e has his outburst and moaning constantly affected the morale of players ?

 

[EastDorsetWolf]

Lopetegui's staff ? Will they all be leaving with him. In particuler Edu Rubio who has been based in the UK for some years. GON's backroom staff are all still at Bournemouth and unlikely to leave.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Followed/supported Wolves since 1972.....seen some great times..... and some bad.......but, tonight I feel genuinely sad....and it's not something I've felt before....

Once for me. The day Shi fired Nuno.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Surely the irony of this saga is not lost… a manager unable to sign his agreed target is being paid off, along with his coaching staff, a similar amount to the short fall in the Scott deal. It seriously beggars belief from Jeff Shi and Fosun.

I have followed the club since the early 70’s and every feint ray of success has always been extinguished in the boardroom , none more so than the incumbent numbskulls that sit there today.

I fear there’s no way back for Shi or Fosun with the fans after this self inflicted catastrophe.

When you put it like that....

 

[Wignall 3-0]

So on this basis the Jeff Shi letter was just spin and lies.

Yep.

 

[rg4352]

Fosun didn’t turn off the money taps. The markets turned them off on them. They have a huge portfolio of ****e investments they have borrowed far too much money against and now they have to either repay or refinance those debts when lots of their assets are worth less than the debt against them. Ie they have negative equity value and even selling them won’t release cash into the mothership. Refinancing debts when you are a secretive, opaque, over levered Chinese investment firm with a questionable governance structure and a crap track record ain’t easy. Infact it’s currently impossible, in the international credit markets at least. Maybe they can get more cash from state owned banks in China to deal with near term maturity?! they are prob in that too big to fail category for China but they are no different to HNA, evergrande, country garden, the clown who owned house of Fraser before Ashley and his sanpower **** show, the clown who owned WBA, the clown who owned AC Milan, etc etc. You see a theme here?

The post 2008 free money party has finished. You can’t just keep borrowing with no regard for what your balance sheet looks like and the market won’t tolerate additional borrowing just to cover your interest bill. And for these Chinese companies nvestment comoanies they are going to have to shed assets and deal with the reality that they have assets but very little liquidity and far far far too much debt.

Based on the above why do you think they don’t want to sell us, and are turning down any opportunities that wouldn’t leave them as a majority stakeholder? I know next to nothing about this but surely the situation would scream sell and make the profit?

 

[WickedWolfie]

So on this basis the Jeff Shi letter was just spin and lies.

Harsh, there may have been some lies and spin too....

 

[floydstreet]

No. we want "the truth". But many of us already know it.

Of course
Because you are on the board of fosun or Jeff shi

We will never get the truth
We will get a version they want us to have and then have to read through that and decide.
But more communication would really help everyone for sure

 

[Wolf316]

Surely surely the players have been consulted a little here
I.e has his outburst and moaning constantly affected the morale of players ?

Didn’t look like it on Saturday when they played the best football I’ve seen in a longtime.

 

[Wolf316]

The interview between Julen and Balague was the last straw according to ITV.

Can 100% understand the club’s point of view, with them thinking I suspect that this could easily be seen as Gross Misconduct.

What about promising funds and then moving the goalposts?

 

[Mighty Thor]

Based on the above why do you think they don’t want to sell us, and are turning down any opportunities that wouldn’t leave them as a majority stakeholder? I know next to nothing about this but surely the situation would scream sell and make the profit?

Wanting to sell us, needing to sell us and having to sell us are all very different things. Time will tell.

From my personal experience of doing business with some of the aforementioned **** shows….Believe nothing. Trust no one. Question everything.

Edit. Also should add that the assumption that selling wolves would release cash for the mothership is also not guaranteed. Although wolves may not be saddled with debt on our balance sheet I would think it is probable they have borrowed money against their share ownership of wolves at the fosun holdco entity. This is essentially a margin loan. It’s like me starting a company called mighty thor limited. I put in 1 pound of equity and borrow 30m of cash from Chinese banks. I then go buy wolves for 30m. It looks like this is a cash purchase but it’s debt. Just debt in a holdco. Wolves then get promoted. And the valuation of wolves and thus my shares go up in value. I then go to my friendly Chinese banks and borrow more money against the increased value of my shares held in mighty Thor limited. Agian it looks like no debt in wolves and if I sell it I would make loads of money. But reality is the shares in wolves held by mighty Thor limited are placed as collateral against the debt I have borrowed. This is classic structure for how billionaires and investment companies operate by borrowing to release cash from illiquid investments to make further investments. For example musk borrowed a **** load of cash against his Tesla shares at the top of the mkt to help him buy Twitter. Tesla stock has bombed. And musk has to sell shares to get in compliance of the covenants of his margin loan against his Tesla stock. It’s all leverage. And it can all come crashing down. Leveraging your equity holdings all works fine in a rising market when asset prices are going up every year. When markets turn and valuations fall it becomes a **** show and you can lose everything. Very very quickly.

 

[berwickwolf]

Surely the irony of this saga is not lost… a manager unable to sign his agreed target is being paid off, along with his coaching staff, a similar amount to the short fall in the Scott deal. It seriously beggars belief from Jeff Shi and Fosun.

I have followed the club since the early 70’s and every feint ray of success has always been extinguished in the boardroom , none more so than the incumbent numbskulls that sit there today.

I fear there’s no way back for Shi or Fosun with the fans after this self inflicted catastrophe.

That's a sad, but good post. Unlike the others who seem to relish failure.
We've been through it before, it's the hope that kills!
But we'll keep on hoping, otherwise what's the point?

 

[SydneyWolf26]

I was hoping I’d wake up this morning and it all be a bad dream. What an embarrassing situation, I just cannot get my head around a JL departure followed closely by GON welcome, the meltdown will be monumental. 5 days to go and we have no clue who (if anyone) will be sat in the dugout

 

[floydstreet]

Didn’t look like it on Saturday when they played the best football I’ve seen in a longtime.

They were great
And there’s the hope
They are fit
They are a close group with less cliques by all accounts
They are a young team with less established egos

A manager can come in, take over and carry on a similar trajectory style. I mean the fast, high line, pressing game is common place presently. But at least the players are drilled into it

 

[JohnB]

Same here.

Followed/supported Wolves since 1972.....seen some great times..... and some bad.......but, tonight I feel genuinely sad....and it's not something I've felt before....

Sad when Nuno went, sad when Neves went. Both end of eras.
Not sad now - angry, disappointed, exasperated, frustrated, worried. Timing is shocking, lack of communication between Fosun and Hobbs/JLo. JLo throwing toys out in public. Absolute embarrassment.

 

[Wolf316]

They were great
And there’s the hope
They are fit
They are a close group with less cliques by all accounts
They are a young team with less established egos

A manager can come in, take over and carry on a similar trajectory style. I mean the fast, high line, pressing game is common place presently. But at least the players are drilled into it

But the new manager isn’t.

 

[WickedWolfie]

They were great
And there’s the hope
They are fit
They are a close group with less cliques by all accounts
They are a young team with less established egos

A manager can come in, take over and carry on a similar trajectory style. I mean the fast, high line, pressing game is common place presently. But at least the players are drilled into it

I hope that they are all prepared to stay. I suspect that escape plans for several are already in place

 

[Wildman]

Sometimes you just have to accept that we are not meant to have nice things