Are we.....the bad guys?

[Tring Wolf]

To be fair to Marcal, a couple of the hits he took yesterday looked genuinely painful. Took one in the meat and veg but was smart enough to get himself back on the pitch and delay the corner. Then studded in the stomach by Mwepu.

It has definitely crept more into our game since we weren’t given the foul against Neves in the United game.

Bizarrely, the worst dive yesterday was Coady’s. He’s just not very good at it!

 

[Sheriff Woody]

I don’t like it. I don’t think it’s in the spirit of the game but if you can’t beat them, join them.

What is apparent though is the amount of free kicks we win by our players falling to the ground at the slightest touch like they’re in platoon compared to the amount of free kicks we give away by just kicking people. I lost count of the number of times Joao Moutinho just blatantly tripped or kicked a Brighton player, he’s not even subtle about it.

 

[quirky_birky]

Not many complaints on the Brighton forum, though there was some faux concern for Marcal's wellbeing.

Personally I don't like it and never will. Sure, you don't win points for playing nicely, but you lose any moral high ground when resorting to the same underhand tactics. I recall quite a bit of diving and theatrics with the first wave of Portuguese players, but it seemed to die off after a while and I think it's more noticeable from those Wolves players who haven't been at the club as long. I can't say that it's a cultural thing though when you look at the likes of Kane, Sterling, Grealish et al, who have played their entire careers in this country.

Personally I'd like to see VAR put to good use and retrospectively look at some of these incidents. I suppose there are two sides to the argument though. Grealish supposedly took to diving after getting clobbered by journeymen players in the lower leagues. Other players theatrically go down following sneaky shirt pulls, kicks or whatever. It's no excuse though. Cheating is cheating, and Cullis famously threw away a title by not cynically fouling a player who went on to score.

 

[maws]

Considering we’ve conceded twice when players tried to be honest then I’m not surprised they’re now faking. That’s where referees are at fault. They encourage acting by not delivering stoppages or fouls when they should

 

[Howler]

Marcal genuinely cracks me up, one minute he's on his deathbed the next he's sliding around like he's never been more alive.

 

[Stafford]

I was giving them the benefit of doubt for our first few games.

'oh he did get caught in the face'

But we get caught in the face about 3 times in every half.

Bruno seems very pragmatic. Trying to gain small percentages where he can. Get a result at all costs.

Which is why we are 8th in the Premier league with a depleted and weak squad.

 

[old wittonian]

Every club, player does it in some form, don’t like it, but some teams don’t seem to get the bad publicity like maybe the top 6!!! for instance.

Pep’s rant about Wolves on Saturday, for a so called top coach was embarrassing, he should know more than most why we played like we did, which to be honest was an outstanding defensive display that deserved a point, which without that awful VAR decision we would have got.

He never mentioned that Bruno’s tactics made his job very much harder than those of Leeds who went gung-ho and shot themselves in foot seven times.
Pep is becoming a whinger IMHO.

 

[Bognor_Wolf]

Think Marcal went down "injured" like 5 times yesterday he was certainly annoying plenty of Brighton fans..

Like some have said we have been to nice over recent seasons and abit of game management to kill momentum when winning isn't a bad thing but we are getting a bit of a reputation for being well over the top....

 

[clivewolves]

Football does have this split personality. Off the field it's becoming all nicey-nicey, be kind to everyone, don't say boo to a goose.

But given the opportunity they'd punch their own nan in the face for three points.

 

[Pessimistic Wolf]

I understand the strategy of wasting time and slowing the game down. What I can't really understand, in the age of VAR, is clutching your face and rolling around trying to get someone sent off when Stockley Park can whether there's actually meaningful contact.

 

[Stafford]

I understand the strategy of wasting time and slowing the game down. What I can't really understand, in the age of VAR, is clutching your face and rolling around trying to get someone sent off when Stockley Park can whether there's actually meaningful contact.

I think it's a breaking up the game ruining the pattern of play tactic. Hold your face, ref has to stop play. which is pretty poor form considering Jiminez.

 

[SA Wolf]

Ever since the law about stopping the game for 'head injuries'; the play-acting has got worse as most thought it would. Any slight contact above the waist leaves players rolling on the floor as though clubbed with a baseball bat.
For us, Marcal is the worst, although in recent games, I can recall Jimenez, Saiss, Traore and Ait-Nouri doing similar. Is it a coincidence that those players didn't develop at UK clubs? I don't recall similar histrionics from Max or Coady.
Whatever, it's a blight on the game and even if people call it game management, 'professionalism' or match awareness; it's cheating and should be driven out of the game.

 

[JonahWolf]

Give him a month with our guys and he’d turn us into something wayyyyy better.

I have no doubt that he’d improve the attack, the relentless drilling on patterns of play.
However, he only knows one way to defend, and goes shopping for the absolute best to enable them to play that way.
And no, not a month, that’s a ridiculous exaggeration. Try a pre-season plus several months.

 

[FJRWolf]

I dont like it but we're no worse than any others and some are far worse than us. The problem is, if you don't join in, you lose out

 

[DC sits in the NORTHSTAND]

We are bad. Our players cheat and time-waste. I hate it. Falling down clutching their face when a shoulder was lightly brushed. Being injured off the pitch, and sneaking back on to waste time!!! In recent games, I think it has gotten worse. We certainly can't complain of other teams/players for doing this.

I don't think Marcel came back on to waste time, he took a ball to the balls which looked painful. But he didn't want to be off the pitch at a corner waiting for the trainer etc. So coming back on gave him time to compose himself & make sure we had a full team in the pitch to defend the corner. Quick thinking as he got to stay on the pitch to clear the corner.

 

[fleck1]

Its about time, we are far too nice. Like it or not its become part of the game, it breaks up the game, slows it down when you are on the back foot and the odd free kick leading to a goal. If it boils the **** of the opposition players, bench and fans even better. You get no bonus points for being nice or playing by the rules.

 

[marrs-guitar]

Marcal has always been more than keen to waste time and that was pre-Brentford and pre-Lage.

It's become more and more a feature of our play because the goals have dried up and we are either clinging to a 0-0 or a 1-0 in the closing stages of matches week-in week-out.

There is a self-defeating element to it in that once a club gains a reputation for time-wasting than the officials become more aware of it and will be less likely to whistle fouls in their favour and more prone to adding on added time.

It also probably seeps into the players' minds that they should concentrate on drawing fouls and slowing things down as much as possible in the closing moments, making them pass up opportunities to score the goal that would kill the game anyway. It is really no surprise that we score so few goals when we are leading in the closing stages of games.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I’d rather we didn’t do it, however whilst the FA do nothing about it and whilst everyone else does it, then why shouldn’t we?

It’s a poor analogy but the best I have but it’s not unlike having a lock in at the pub, it’s against the rules but why go home at 11 when everyone else is having a beer?

Ultimately I’d love it to be removed from football but let’s face it, it’s been a big part of it for 30 years now.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Duh.

 

[Stoichkov]

It's definitely crept in this season and I don't like it one bit

Be nice if we could spend the wasted time actually trying to score goals and give the fans some entertainment.

Lofty dreams I know

Did you actually watch the second half? We lost RAN and Hwang yet still won at a canter

If our play was always like at City then I’d agree - but it’s really not, we frequently slice through teams, through the middle and down the flanks.

I’ve dreamed of us being this solid and able all my life. We are a top 10 team and I for one am bloody grateful

 

[KBWWFC]

Give him a month with our guys and he’d turn us into something wayyyyy better.

Depends whether we allow him to use his 'special' Barcelona doctor.

 

[AndyY]

Should do what they do in rugby (again) and insist that the game carries on even if a player is down, but allow the physio on to the pitch. If the ball hits the physio then it’s a free kick at that position to the opposition.

 

[Jack Russell]

To be fair to Marcal, a couple of the hits he took yesterday looked genuinely painful. Took one in the meat and veg but was smart enough to get himself back on the pitch and delay the corner. Then studded in the stomach by Mwepu.

It has definitely crept more into our game since we weren’t given the foul against Neves in the United game.

Bizarrely, the worst dive yesterday was Coady’s. He’s just not very good at it!

Plus being elbowed in the face. There's two sides to this argument. The other being to not dish it out in the first place.

I am really looking out for the situation where a referee sends someone off for one of the bad fouls on Adama, especially early in the game. However since most of the referees do not have the necessary cojones, I suspect that I will have a long wait!

 

[old wittonian]

I was giving them the benefit of doubt for our first few games.

'oh he did get caught in the face'

But we get caught in the face about 3 times in every half.

Bruno seems very pragmatic. Trying to gain small percentages where he can. Get a result at all costs.

Which is why we are 7th in the Premier league with a depleted and weak squad.

Don't recall BT mentioning last night that we had Neto, Jonny and Mosquera injured or that Jordao was only just recovering from long term injury and unavailable.
Of course they couldn't avoid mentioning RAN and Hwang as they were injured on the day.

 

[clivewolves]

I've said a few times on other threads how little football has changed over the decades, and this is just another example. I've quoted Stan Cullis' book written in 1960 a few times, and there is a chapter about referees. Here's a couple of paragraphs from that chapter -

"Recently a new word was added to the dictionary of football terminology. It was 'gamesmanship'. In his humorous writing on this new art - which exists, apparently, in other sports also - Stephen Potter describes gamesmanship as "The art of winning games without actually cheating."" page 191.

"Acts of 'gamesmanship', as the Football Association called them, were seen frequently on our Football League grounds. The most common example was the sight of a player standing on or near the ball when a free-kick was awarded against his team in a dangerous position. Arthur Ellis, of Halifax, one of England's most famous referees, once told me that he knew a manager who drew up a 'batting order' for players to undertake this duty. Thus, if one was cautioned, a fresh 'innocent' face was on hand to perform the same task next time." pages 192-193.

 

[Bradmore Wolf]

We have no ground to criticise other clubs/players who partake in the "dark arts" now have we?

 

[Abbobrom]

Well Stirling has to be the worst in the league. Does he attend classes to learn these dark arts?

 

[Bradmore Wolf]

Well Stirling has to be the worst in the league. Does he attend classes to learn these dark arts?

I really wouldn't be surprised if it's not something they don't practice on the training ground

 

[Ned]

It's damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Personally I hate to see it and feel uncomfortable seeing our players roll around in agony when they've barely been touched. I absolutely detest it when our opponents do it and shout and scream at them like most on here.

Saying that, I can understand why we do it and until there are rules in place to stop it or prevent it we have no choice but to adopt a "can't beat 'em, join 'em" attitude.

I wonder what effect having in game treatment on the pitch as play carries on would have on the absolute fake injuries.

 

[Poztin]

At the minute it reeks of District 5 Ducks before Coach Bombay got his act together.

 

[Flump]

For us, Marcal is the worst, although in recent games, I can recall Jimenez, Saiss, Traore and Ait-Nouri doing similar. Is it a coincidence that those players didn't develop at UK clubs? I don't recall similar histrionics from Max or Coady.

I thought the tired old stereotypes of tough honest british lads, vs diving foreign fancy Dans had died out.

How about the down-to-earth diving from good old Honest Harry Kane, Solid Sterling and Grounded Grealish?

 

[wolvesjoe]

I think we are on the way to becoming the most rocknroll team in the Premier.

This is partly down to outstanding characters like Coady, Adama, Moutinho, Raul, Sa, Saiss
and others. These are never say die, determined people who always give their utmost.

But the new bad boy behaviour, breaking up the play, complaining to the ref much more
than ever happened under Nuno, exchanging words with the opposition if needed, is also
adding to this.

As is hardly ever conceding, and being able to ground out narrow wins. The Atletico Madrid
of the Premier.

I like it, its an identity that we have lacked since the end of the second Premier season.

 

[Arky_R]

its pathletic really Podence is probably the worst for it but Neves has been given him a run for his money of late.
Its a foreigner thing and as said it does get results. It does sometimes wind up the oppostion fans too which might not necessarily be a bad thing. I'd hope we'd do it a little less at least

 

[S G Wolves]

Excellent my Marcal to roll back on after taking one in the goolies. The right thing to do. Don't want to defend a corner with 10...

Delay to get his breath and composure back. All men, we've all had at some point so know what it's like

 

[Hot Fuss]

its pathletic really Podence is probably the worst for it but Neves has been given him a run for his money of late.
Its a foreigner thing and as said it does get results. It does sometimes wind up the oppostion fans too which might not necessarily be a bad thing. I'd hope we'd do it a little less at least

It really isn’t a foreigner thing anymore.

 

[Flump]

Its a foreigner thing and as said it does get results. It does sometimes wind up the oppostion fans too which might not necessarily be a bad thing. I'd hope we'd do it a little less at least

Sigh... yeah those damn dirty diving foreigners eh, unlike proper honest British lads like Kane, Sterling and Grealish.

 

[Contrarian]

The good guys, who are they? Norwich? Newcastle? Leeds?

 

[Arky_R]

Sigh... yeah those damn dirty diving foreigners eh, unlike proper honest British lads like Kane, Sterling and Grealish.

haha triggered! i'd say the majority are but yeah wrong of me to suggest its just them.
You give some great examples to be fair.

 

[S G Wolves]

The good guys, who are they? Norwich? Newcastle? Leeds?

There are none in my opinion.

We have just managed to catch the rest up..

 

[jrpb-3]

All things like this , "winning penalties" going down easily at slightest touch etc. really come down to how the rules are being interpreted and enforced by the referees. If the refs are giving fouls /decisions for these things then you play to the rules the way they are being enforced. (I don't like players doing it, but now seems to be allowed and part of the game). For things to change then the instructions /guidance to refs needs to change. Supposedly refs were going to start clamping down on attacking players initiating contact to win penalties with very little contact etc, but I've not really seen much change to what is or isn't given.

Seems to often ref will only give the foul if the player goes down. The foul on Neves the other week being an example goes down injured then tries to get back up to get to ball to prevent goal, so game not stopped, if he'd stayed down then ref blows and we don't concede