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Yes or no to FFP/PSR

What do you favour: back to spending whatever you want or the regulation we currently have

  • 1. Clubs should be able to spend as much as they want

  • 2. Some form of regulation along the lines of what we currently have


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WickedWolfie

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I'm sick of all this rules crap lol... They don't work and they aren't enforced properly so let club owners spend what they want as long as they won't harm the club they own in the process.
Easy to say in principle but bloody difficult in practice.... Ensuring that "they won't harm the club in the process" would necessarily involve rules which are likely to be no less contentious than the current ones.
 

SingYourHeartsOut

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Easy to say in principle but bloody difficult in practice.... Ensuring that "they won't harm the club in the process" would necessarily involve rules which are likely to be no less contentious than the current ones.
Also a fantasy that doing that would level the playing field. When Man City and Newcastle are the top 2 every year as part of some sort of proxy vanity competition between the UAE and Saudis I don't think anyone will think a free for all made things better.
 

WorcesterWanderer

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Also a fantasy that doing that would level the playing field. When Man City and Newcastle are the top 2 every year as part of some sort of proxy vanity competition between the UAE and Saudis I don't think anyone will think a free for all made things better.
It's already a free for all for clubs like Man City.
 

SingYourHeartsOut

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It's already a free for all for clubs like Man City.
Arguably, so enforce some proper rules properly. Your argument is like saying some people speed on the motorway, so may as well get rid of the limit. (That's just the obligatory speeding metaphor!)
 

Oliwolf44

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Needs to be some regulation. Whether the current rules are the best is up for debate, however enough of the prem clubs themselves did all vote for these rules.
Needs to be some form of downward pressure on wages, players are getting a free ride in all this.
It is funny how this is all becoming a big talking point and issue now there are points deductions. Clearly shows that the punishment is working. When it was a fine nobody said anything. At least the rules are now being taken seriously. It will be up to strong and correct governance being applied that make or break. Let's be honest man city are guilty of something lol. You don't spend billions from a club that was midtable and not break some sustainability law.
 

Bill S Preston Esq.

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Fundamentally, the whole transfer model could be addressed and changed. I'd like a draft system to distribute top young talent!
This is quite an interesting idea. I'm not sure how it could work or if changing the current youth policy would damage the development of future talent.

My initial thought would be to ban professional club involvement in youth players until June of their school leaving year, allowing clubs access to School football to assess the talent, culminating in a summer draft for all school leavers.

However, how do you award draft rounds for so many clubs at so many levels? The best players will end up at the worst clubs that way, which is a double edged sword. It'll improve the lower reaches of football but may hinder player development.

Another thought is to ban the top four divisions from signing players until their 18th birthday, meaning they're not involved in the draft at all but can bid in a blind auction for those same players two years on.

I'm just spit balling here, I think the league system id too complex for a draft system and that's without even considering foreign talent and foreign clubs.

As much as I like the idea I don't think it's workable across a worldwide sport such as football. Even if English clubs could agree on a draft format for U16's in England it wouldn't stop foreign clubs poaching them in order for the players to avoid the lottery of a draft.
 

Sussex Wolf

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As I said on another thread. FFP / PSR in all its current forms is wrong. If this were a normal business, then those responsible for creating it and those who sign up to it, would be found guilty of anti competitive behaviour and prosecuted by the competition authorities. It should never have been allowed, and should be stopped. Its effect, whether by design or accident, is to perpetuate the distribution of wealth towards the established wealthy / top clubs.

That being said, nor do I believe it should be a free for all. Some clubs owners are incompetent, some corrupt, and some are well intentioned but lack the resources to adequately support their clubs. So while FFP should be scrapped, I believe we do need an independent and unbiased administration with strong powers to assess and, if necessary, remove “bad” owners who risk the well being on their club.

I also agree that we should have a ban on owners having significant interests in multiple clubs, regulation around agents and their fees, and a more generous spread of tv rights through the leagues combined with a reform of the parachute payments. While the Premier League does itself generate the interest which drives the large tv rights it earns, it cannot remain healthy in the long term without an effective pyramid.
 

Frank Lincoln

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As long as the Sky six can get away with things, then FFP/PSR has no credibility. I agree it can’t be a free for all otherwise mega rich owners would buy clubs and spend fortunes on them. But until Manchester City are brought to task for their alleged breaches of the financial restraints then it is a waste of time.
 
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Mile End Wanderer

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As long as the Sky six can get away with things, then FFP/PSR has no credibility. I agree it can’t be a feee for all otherwise mega rich owners would buy clubs and spend fortunes on them. But until Manchester City are brought to task for their alleged breaches of the financial restraints then it is a waste of time.
Can you see much happening to Man City though? Damaging their PL status would damage the PL product which they don’t want…..
 

Frank Lincoln

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Can you see much happening to Man City though? Damaging their PL status would damage the PL product which they don’t want…..

Agreed, the Manchester City saga will just drag on, while supposedly lesser clubs will be punished. It is wrong, City should be treated the same as the other clubs, irrespective of their status. Though I shan’t hold my breath.
 

WorcesterWanderer

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Agreed, the Manchester City saga will just drag on, while supposedly lesser clubs will be punished. It is wrong, City should be treated the same as the other clubs, irrespective of their status. Though I shan’t hold my breath.
Just a question, something I like to ask anyone who cares, if you could have City punished any way you personally saw fit, what would you do?
 

Mile End Wanderer

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Just a question, something I like to ask anyone who cares, if you could have City punished any way you personally saw fit, what would you do?

Transfer embargo 2 seasons

35 point deduction starting from next season

1 billion fine and make sure non league and football league get the funding to help promote the game to a better standard

People saying strip them of titles and throw them out the league are far fetched, as it would make a joke of the premier league
 

Frank Lincoln

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Just a question, something I like to ask anyone who cares, if you could have City punished any way you personally saw fit, what would you do?

I think it depends what they are found guilty of (if they ever are), but seeing the punishments handed out to Everton and Nottingham Forest then I would expect Manchester City to have many more points deducted. Maybe deduct them 30 points as the football league did to Luton Town.
 

WorcesterWanderer

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Transfer embargo 2 seasons

35 point deduction starting from next season

1 billion fine and make sure non league and football league get the funding to help promote the game to a better standard

People saying strip them of titles and throw them out the league are far fetched, as it would make a joke of the premier league
Similar answers between yourself and Frank, got to say I agree, especially with the titles/league thing. That is a total fantasy, and while I understand why people want it, it's never going to happen.
 

Ned

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Bit of both, really.

I’m not sure I 100% believe (even though I’ve said it in the past) that this was set up to keep the status quo at the top of the table but it has 100% has that effect and has made the league a genuine closed shop barring the odd season where teams/squads “click” but they can never sustain it.
 

Mile End Wanderer

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Similar answers between yourself and Frank, got to say I agree, especially with the titles/league thing. That is a total fantasy, and while I understand why people want it, it's never going to happen.
I honestly don’t think they have much evidence on Man City to be honest. It will come down to about 1/2 charges at the most which will be a fine and points deduction.

People will be crying for chelsea, newcastle and villa to be next in line for punishments
 

Frank Lincoln

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Transfer embargo 2 seasons

35 point deduction starting from next season

1 billion fine and make sure non league and football league get the funding to help promote the game to a better standard

People saying strip them of titles and throw them out the league are far fetched, as it would make a joke of the premier league

The transfer embargo seems a good idea, that would probably hurt more than any fine or a minimal points deduction.
 

WorcesterWanderer

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I honestly don’t think they have much evidence on Man City to be honest. It will come down to about 1/2 charges at the most which will be a fine and points deduction.

People will be crying for chelsea, newcastle and villa to be next in line for punishments
Anyone who has broken the rules should be punished, no matter who the club is. I never bought into the sympathy for Forest and Everton because I don't think being a struggling club means that people should feel sorry for you when you break the rules. Got no time for Forest at all because they tried to drag us into it.

We bent over backwards to keep in line with the rules and we are doing well this season. I don't like the way FFP/PSR/whatever is being executed, but if we can do it then they can.
 

Wignall 3-0

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All PL and EFL clubs to move to an accounting period of 1st July to 30th June. The Independent Regulator to have real time data about each clubs PSR (or whatever) financial information so as to fire fully documented warning shots to any club likely to be in breach by the end of the accounting period. I think it is the Italian system which has access to financial data and gives warnings?
 

Eastyorksyeltz

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All PL and EFL clubs to move to an accounting period of 1st July to 30th June. The Independent Regulator to have real time data about each clubs PSR (or whatever) financial information so as to fire fully documented warning shots to any club likely to be in breach by the end of the accounting period. I think it is the Italian system which has access to financial data and gives warnings?
Not sure you should, or can, force corporate entities to have a specific accounting date. There are many reasons why they may choose different dates, depending on connected company structures and financial arrangements, or international fiscal requirements, that have nothing to do with football. However if the PSR arrangements are more straightforward and there is some acceptance of the relevant"real time" financial information being made available, to a regulatory body as you also suggest, I don't see that interference in accounting periods is necessary.
 

WickedWolfie

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All PL and EFL clubs to move to an accounting period of 1st July to 30th June. The Independent Regulator to have real time data about each clubs PSR (or whatever) financial information so as to fire fully documented warning shots to any club likely to be in breach by the end of the accounting period. I think it is the Italian system which has access to financial data and gives warnings?
For publicly quoted companies or subsidiaries thereof that could well fall foul of corporate disclosure obligations.
 

VancouverWolf

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Just a question, something I like to ask anyone who cares, if you could have City punished any way you personally saw fit, what would you do?
Anyway I saw fit, right? It’s all fantasy right?

First, I’d want them to admit to their cheating and then a televised full apology from the board and Pep to the football world.
And then some points deduction and a transfer ban…..how many points or how long a ban I have no idea but at least enough to sting.
 

Wolf316

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Anyway I saw fit, right? It’s all fantasy right?

First, I’d want them to admit to their cheating and then a televised full apology from the board and Pep to the football world.
And then some points deduction and a transfer ban…..how many points or how long a ban I have no idea but at least enough to sting.
Pep has said in the past he’ll resign if they are found guilty of any of the charges so it’ll be interesting to see if he actually does.
 

Madmalc

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It might just be me, but the reason the Government is talking about appointing an independent Football regulator is because the Football clubs currently regulate themselves.

That means in the Premiership each of the 20 club chairpersons' (chairs) casts their votes on any regulations specific to their league and the chairs of all 92 clubs have a vote on regulations that effect all clubs in the league they're in and the larger league structures.
So, the muddle that is FFP and PSR is actually the creation of the Chairs/owners of all the Football clubs.
The majority of the club owners must therefore be accepting (if not entirely happy) of PSR/FFP and other regulations. This democratic structure supposedly exists up the self governance chain to EUFA and beyond to FIFA.

The ever evolving regulations like PSR/FFP alongside VAR and other on field conduct of play rules have also been proved to be an attractive business model not just in the UK but Worldwide, such that money has been attracted into the game.

Thinking about it PSR/FFP may even be an internal attempt to make clubs put their finances in order, with the added hope that a Government appointed regulator can be avoided (not just in the UK).

So PSR/FFP has been put together and formulated by several committees and much in the same way as a camel has been described as a racing horse designed by a committee, it will hopefully work in the environment it is in.

I can just imagine a Government appointed regulator banning some on field activities like heading the ball, tackling etc on the grounds of health and safety.

When Government has appointed other industry regulators, such political appointees have no doubt done their best, but have seldom been wholly beneficial to the industry their appointment covers.

So we have the status quo, Government keeps threatening Football with the imposition of a regulator (seldom a benign dictator in the longer term) and the Chairs/owners react through the mechanisms they vote to put in place to keep a regulator out.

So the muddle continues like a never ending dance.
 
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SingYourHeartsOut

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It might just be me, but the reason the Government is talking about appointing an independent Football regulator is because the Football clubs currently regulate themselves.

That means in the Premiership each of the 20 club chairpersons' (chairs) casts their votes on any regulations specific to their league and the chairs of all 92 clubs have a vote on regulations that effect all clubs in the league they're in and the larger league structures.
So, the muddle that is FFP and PSR is actually the creation of the Chairs/owners of all the Football clubs.
The majority of the club owners must therefore be accepting (if not entirely happy) of PSR/FFP and other regulations. This democratic structure supposedly exists up the self governance chain to EUFA and beyond to FIFA.

The ever evolving regulations like PSR/FFP alongside VAR and other on field conduct of play rules have also been proved to be an attractive business model not just in the UK but Worldwide, such that money has been attracted into the game.

Thinking about it PSR/FFP may even be an internal attempt to make clubs put their finances in order, with the added hope that a Government appointed regulator can be avoided (not just in the UK).

So PSR/FFP has been put together and formulated by several committees and much in the same way as a camel has been described as a racing horse designed by a committee, it will hopefully work in the environment it is in.

I can just imagine a Government appointed regulator banning some on field activities like heading the ball, tackling etc on the grounds of health and safety.

When Government has appointed other industry regulators, such political appointees have no doubt done their best, but have seldom been wholly beneficial to the industry their appointment covers.

So we have the status quo, Government keeps threatening Football with the imposition of a regulator (seldom a benign dictator in the longer term) and the Chairs/owners react through the mechanisms they vote to put in place to keep a regulator out.

So the muddle continues like a never ending dance.
There's no way a government regulator will get involved with the laws of the game. However their record in most industries has been pretty pathetic, I don't really see it as a solution to anything.
 

WickedWolfie

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There's no way a government regulator will get involved with the laws of the game. However their record in most industries has been pretty pathetic, I don't really see it as a solution to anything.
If any HMG regulator attempts to change the rules of the game English football will be completely isolated. Immediate international bans for the national team and club teams from FIFA and UEFA. Possibly even the armageddon scenario, of punishments (e.g. international bans) for any players continuing to play games for English clubs in what would be unrecognised games and/or all player's contracts voided.
 

WorcesterWanderer

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Anyway I saw fit, right? It’s all fantasy right?

First, I’d want them to admit to their cheating and then a televised full apology from the board and Pep to the football world.
And then some points deduction and a transfer ban…..how many points or how long a ban I have no idea but at least enough to sting.
Always preferred Jose over Pep so I'd love to see this! Would be absolutely amazing to see. Man City have made a mockery of football- I really hope they actually face some form of punishment!
 

WickedWolfie

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Always preferred Jose over Pep so I'd love to see this! Would be absolutely amazing to see. Man City have made a mockery of football- I really hope they actually face some form of punishment!
Each to their own but you will be in a very tiny minority with that first sentence. Mourinho has all the charm of an open cesspit.
 

YouGottaRaulWithIt

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Regulation is obviously the way forward. Just look how we'll it works in Spain. It doesn't stop Barcelona and Real from doing whatever they ****ing well like.
 

WorcesterWanderer

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Each to their own but you will be in a very tiny minority with that first sentence. Mourinho has all the charm of an open cesspit.
Each to their own indeed then. I don't think I am on a minority when it comes to liking Mourinho but fair enough I suppose.
 

WolfInSheep'sClothing

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Just a question, something I like to ask anyone who cares, if you could have City punished any way you personally saw fit, what would you do?
If they have done what they are alleged to have done I would have them kicked out of the competition, and declared any of the years where they won titles as a result of the rule breaches void.
Any less of a punishment and FFP is done for.
You either have rules and everybody sticks to them and appropriate punishments are handed out, or you **** them off entirely.
 

wwbug

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I have voted no , but believe clubs should be restricted on borrowings.
Clubs only get in to problems when they borrow money they cant repay.
That means a billionaire can buy any club and make it a winner. Bristol, Wolves , Stoke or Man City.
Giving hope to all clubs and football fans.
 

Perton Wolf

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No regulation wouldn't work.

Current regulation isn't working.

Spending should be linked to a proportion of turnover, along with a percentage levy of turnover payable to a consolidation fund, to distribute wealth throughout the leagues. Which is similar to what they're trying to do, albeit badly.

Fundamentally, the whole transfer model could be addressed and changed. I'd like a draft system to distribute top young talent!
Who would develop the top young talent though?

Schools and colleges do in the USA. That's not going to happen here.

You're not going to have clubs invest and develop players through their academies for them to just enter a draft system.

Wrong country for such a suggestion.
 
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