Wolves Dec '17 v Wolves Dec '22

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

I honestly think that Pre-Lopetegui, five years on Wolves have regressed.

A starting XI circa 2017 of;

Ruddy

Boly
Coady
Bennett

Douglas
Neves
Saïss
Doherty

Jota
Bonatini
H. Costa

Is better than the 2022 versions of;

Sa

Semedo
Collins
Kilman
Jonny

Moutinho
Neves
Nunes

Podence
Jimenez
Adama

Midfield is the only area you'd say has improved in five years. Yes some players have suffered a loss in form from what they were but even that points to a problem with recruitment.

If I were a betting man, my money would be on the '17 team to beat the '22 team. Let's hope recruitment improves significantly under Lopetegui. It needs to.

 

[woop woop barmy army]

Behave

 

[TheConcourse]

Ha! I was thinking about this the other day too. That in-form Championship would have slapped the Dec ‘22 team all over the place*

‘17 2-1 ‘22

*maybe not all over the place, but they’d win.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Maybe there's an argument, but it's a really pointless argument given the transfer window we've just had.

Would it beat
Sa
Semedo-Collins-Dawson-RAN
Nunes-Neves-Lemina
Sarabia-Cunha-Podence

Jota for Podence is literally the only one I'm taking.

 

[WolfLing]

If you take any functioning, in-form team and pitted them against a largely dysfunctional, out of form team, yes, they'd have a big chance of winning.

Probably best to see how we feel about it after 20+ games under Lopetegui.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Behave

Please tell me about how much better today's Adama is than 2017's Helder Costa?

Or how many more goals Jimenez scores than Bonatini BEFORE he fell off a cliff?

Remind me how Podence is better than Jota?

Douglas and Doherty '17 v Semedo and Jonny '22. Talk me through the latters many goal involvements this season?

Is a backline of Collins/Kilman more robust than Coady/Boly/Bennett?

Maybe you should behave.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Maybe there's an argument, but it's a really pointless argument given the transfer window we've just had.

Would it beat
Sa
Semedo-Collins-Dawson-RAN
Nunes-Neves-Lemina
Sarabia-Cunha-Podence

Jota for Podence is literally the only one I'm taking.

It's why I picked dates before transfer windows. It's in no way a slight on Lopetegui. Just a straight up comparison of two teams that have nothing to do with JL.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

It's why I picked dates before transfer windows. It's in no way a slight on Lopetegui. Just a straight up comparison of two teams that have nothing to do with JL.

Well obviously start whatever thread you want. You may as well have continued this one though and most of us could admit we got it wrong.

Transfer window: The verdict

Let's hope all those 8 or 9 out of 10 marks are right this time!

 

[DJLWolf]

Behave

Cloud cuckoo land

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

Well I doubt it would be a goal fest

 

[DJLWolf]

Please tell me about how much better today's Adama is than 2017's Helder Costa?

Or how many more goals Jimenez scores than Bonatini BEFORE he fell off a cliff?

Remind me how Podence is better than Jota?

Douglas and Doherty '17 v Semedo and Jonny '22. Talk me through the latters many goal involvements this season?

Is a backline of Collins/Kilman more robust than Coady/Boly/Bennett?

Maybe you should behave.

Completely agree on all of that.

I think in hindsight fosun clearly agreed with you hence them appointing Lopetegui and spending a lot of money to hopefully find a way out of it.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

You can’t compare a team who played in a division with Bristol City, Huddersfield, Cardiff with one who plays against the big six. Some of those players are getting nowhere near the current bench let alone starting

 

[SA Wolf]

Watched highlights of the Asia Trophy win against Newcastle this afternoon. We battered them 4-0 and looked really good. Most of that team broken up and we've gone downhill. Most of Newcastle team also not there and they are 3rd in the league with the best defensive record. How times have changed in only a few years!

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Well obviously start whatever thread you want. You may as well have continued this one though and most of us could admit we got it wrong.

Transfer window: The verdict

Let's hope all those 8 or 9 out of 10 marks are right this time!

I was never involved in that thread. I'm being critical of our recruitment overall, not a particular transfer window, which this thread is critiquing.

My point stands, I believe the current team minus our latest signings (too soon to judge) is worse than our pre-January team of December '22.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

Our current side is better than 2017 as a whole, however form and confidence obviously plays a part. In a one off game it'd be fairly close all things considered, but it's a relatively futile hypothetical.

Between 2018-22 our recruitment has been stagnant at best, and negligent/incompetent at worst. Not progressing the spine at all has put us where we are now.

Time has caught up with us as well as other clubs sussing us out, and of course having significantly improved themselves. It'd be like contemporary Brighton selling their biggest overall goal threat (Jota) then keeping virtually all of their current players/tactics and in 4 years time wondering why they haven't got any better.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

You can’t compare a team who played in a division with Bristol City, Huddersfield, Cardiff with one who plays against the big six. Some of those players are getting nowhere near the current bench let alone starting

Can I compare them to the team that started most of the following season?

7/11 players were exactly the same, with the exception of Patricio in for Ruddy, Jonny in for Douglas, Moutinho in for Saïss and Raúl in for Bonatini. All proving to be astute signings.

No one would argue the team that started the 18/19 season was better than what ended the 17/18 season, whereas there is at the very least an argument to be had about '17 v '22.

Suggesting those players wouldn't be near our bench before our winter spending spree is fanciful. To have had any one of Coady/Boly/Saïss in the match day squad would have been very useful in any match so far this season.

Doherty and Jota have never been properly replaced. In fact even players like Helder Costa and Cavaleiro would have been useful too. The outlay in trying to upgrade on those two has not been good value and could they have scored any less than their replacements?

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Can I compare them to the team that started most of the following season?

7/11 players were exactly the same, with the exception of Patricio in for Ruddy, Jonny in for Douglas, Moutinho in for Saïss and Raúl in for Bonatini. All proving to be astute signings.

No one would argue the team that started the 18/19 season was better than what ended the 17/18 season, whereas there is at the very least an argument to be had about '17 v '22.

Suggesting those players wouldn't be near our bench before our winter spending spree is fanciful. To have had any one of Coady/Boly/Saïss in the match day squad would have been very useful in any match so far this season.

Doherty and Jota have never been properly replaced. In fact even players like Helder Costa and Cavaleiro would have been useful too. The outlay in trying to upgrade on those two has not been good value and could they have scored any less than their replacements?

Oh so you’re moving the goal posts from your original question, gotcha.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Oh so you’re moving the goal posts from your original question, gotcha.

You moved them for me.

"You can’t compare a team who played in a division with Bristol City, Huddersfield, Cardiff with one who plays against the big six. Some of those players are getting nowhere near the current bench let alone starting"

I merely pointed out that over 70% of that team took us to 7th in the PL... twice.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

You moved them for me.

"You can’t compare a team who played in a division with Bristol City, Huddersfield, Cardiff with one who plays against the big six. Some of those players are getting nowhere near the current bench let alone starting"

I merely pointed out that over 70% of that team took us to 7th in the PL... twice.

Patricio, Johnny, Raul, Moutinho, Dendoncker we’re all starters so it’s not 70%

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Patricio, Johnny, Raul, Moutinho, Dendoncker we’re all starters so it’s not 70%

Donk didn't make a PL appearance until December.

So you're wrong.

But I'll applaud your knit picking anyway.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Donk didn't make a PL appearance until December.

So you're wrong.

But I'll applaud your knit picking anyway.

So did he play? Yes.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

What an interesting conspiracy however at least try 2018

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

So did he play? Yes.

"No one would argue the team that started the 18/19 season was better than what ended the 17/18 season, whereas there is at the very least an argument to be had about '17 v '22"

To be fair, I was then comparing the team that STARTED the 18/19 season. Last time I checked, December wasn't the start of the season.

 

[those were the days]

Long on characters, leaders and drive in that 17/18 team that’s for sure. No coincidence we won a fair few points late on that season. Be an interesting game.

Not sure too many would argue for Saiss (at CM), Douglas, Ruddy, Bonatini or Costa over start 22 equivalents though

 

[Greeno]

Please tell me about how much better today's Adama is than 2017's Helder Costa?

Or how many more goals Jimenez scores than Bonatini BEFORE he fell off a cliff?

Remind me how Podence is better than Jota?

Douglas and Doherty '17 v Semedo and Jonny '22. Talk me through the latters many goal involvements this season?

Is a backline of Collins/Kilman more robust than Coady/Boly/Bennett?

Maybe you should behave.

You've got some valid points and they were exciting/enjoyable times, no doubt.

But Traore has proved, on occasion (big caveat, granted) he can do it in the Premier League. Helder Costa, as much as *I* loved him, failed for us and Leeds. Bonatini did fall of a Championship cliff, no doubt. No way in the world is he a PL striker.

It's easy to bash the current Wolves squad because they're either injured now, have had a bad injury recently, out of form or learning a new system under a new boss. But, if we're taking out of form players as an example, let's not forget the Jota we sold. He looked like a competition winner when he was out of form and was rightly out of the starting XI. That's not revisionism, that's fact.

Douglas never played a minute in the PL and Doherty was a MASSIVE loss, one I completely agree with your sentiment about.
Early Jonny was ace, though

We could have played 2/3 of 'that' backline this season, but they'd (at times) proved themselves to be useless/ineffective... so i'd probably just agree to disagree there. I don't think Kilman and Collins is the answer for a team that has lofty ambitions, but we need to live in the here and now at the moment.

 

[OLDGOLD]

If my auntie had a dick she would be my uncle.

 

[Madmalc]

I feels like management almost consistently replaced players who could make goal contributions with more expensive players who either make less or can't make any at all.
At the same time we were told that we were moving to a more attractive attacking style of football.
Hopefully JL is fixing this.

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

I think this question has arose because the 2017 side played as a team, with a discernible pattern of play, the current team hasn't developed that yet despite probably having the better individual players

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

I think this question has arose because the 2017 side played as a team, with a discernible pattern of play, the current team hasn't developed that yet despite probably having the better individual players

Our "upgrades" have proven not to be at all or have regressed (often due to serious injury).

Our Dec '19 team was superior to '17, no doubt about it. With new players performing at a level above those they replaced.

Those players (Jonny, Adama, Raúl) are no longer performing though, and other "upgrades" ( Semedo, Fabio, Trincao, Guedes, Cutrone - £100M just there) rarely/never have.

Recruitment since 2018 has been mostly poor, with notable exceptions (Neto, Kilman, Sa, Nunes).