Wolves 22/23 accounts

[loppers86]

You can all spray figures around
to try to second guess something you haven’t got a clue about, but it’s all irrelevant really.

Wolves are an established club in the biggest league in the world.
Our owners are also investing large amounts each year.

We don’t have a recognised CF at the club but we do have two players on loan on whom we spent over £60m and have barely played for us.

You can say what you like but if the manager of such a club wants a CF (which ours does) and we find ourselves in a position where we can’t afford Che Adam’s then something is wrong somewhere (and i think most people know where that is).

 

[WolfLing]

You could be right, but if so it's odd that this hasn't been mentioned at all during the season. They were pretty quick when it was us in 2018/19

There’s no interest from Sky in covering it. Ultimately, these rules damage their product, so they give them no air time.

 

[wwbug]

A lot he's on 8m a year so we had 20m left to pay on his contract

Plus his staff

We compromised I believe something between 5 and 10m upfront for all staff in a fixed fee

I suppose it was all part of the cost of avoiding relegation, so worth it .

 

[wolvesjoe]

I can see how many would be against it, but equally wouldn't many teams be in favour when half the league (at least) are hoping to get into Europe when they'll have to abide by it.

The implication, as I read it, is that the Premier League will be lobbying for a dilution/compromise over the salary cap.

It really is a transformative change if it does go through, however.

 

[wwbug]

But this “richest league in the world” stuff is misleading. Wolves is quite a small business. Its an investment banking model but with little way of growing revenue. The only biggish businesses are the sky 6. The rest are not. The issues include:

Almost impossible to grow revenue
High fixed costs
Uncertain revenue ( relegation)
High agents and transfer fees. Imagine a business where you gambled on new asset purchases like football clubs do.

It’s odd but the big six only are the big six because they expanded and developed before FFP. It’s random .
Newcastle , Villa may be many others ( Wolves ,West Ham , Everton Sunderland …….. ) have as big enough case as Man City, Spurs , Man Utd and Chelsea if they had got on the gravy train before FFP.

 

[RosehillWolf]

Am I the only one that thinks if the “ punishment “ is just 6 points , just spend whatever we ****ing want ?

 

[Ned]

Am I the only one that thinks if the “ punishment “ is just 6 points , just spend whatever we ****ing want ?

As long as we keep who we sign then there’s a logic to this. Fail FFP, strengthen and then do better the next season when we don’t have 6 points deducted. Plus new signings would offset the 6 points if we sign well.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765283043726565395

These guys always tend to have interesting insight

Wolverhampton Wanderers Finances 2022/23

Domino Dancing

swissramble.substack.com

 

[Madmalc]

Domino Dancing is any activity where if one of the participants falls over and touches another participant, all participants fall over.

Quite an analogy for the Premier League.

 

[Darvo]

Superb @chignalwolf … many thanks

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Am I the only one that thinks if the “ punishment “ is just 6 points , just spend whatever we ****ing want ?

Well, that’s a gamble. While 6 points is now a precedent, it’s by no means a limit. Everton successfully argued their losses were only marginally above the 105m allowed. Had they or another club gone all out, spent say twice the allowable limit, then the penalty may well be significantly higher. Secondly, as clubs like Forest demonstrate, spending big is no guarantee of greater success. So even if the deduction were only 6 points, the benefit may not exceed it. Finally, it’s hardly in the interests of owners to keep running big losses if they own the club as a business.

 

[QB Wolf]

You can all spray figures around
to try to second guess something you haven’t got a clue about, but it’s all irrelevant really.

Wolves are an established club in the biggest league in the world.
Our owners are also investing large amounts each year.

We don’t have a recognised CF at the club but we do have two players on loan on whom we spent over £60m and have barely played for us.

You can say what you like but if the manager of such a club wants a CF (which ours does) and we find ourselves in a position where we can’t afford Che Adam’s then something is wrong somewhere (and i think most people know where that is).

Is it Lopetegui's fault?

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Is it Lopetegui's fault?

Nah nothings his fault, he walked on water

 

[SuperGran]

Nah nothings his fault, he walked on water

No wonder the water rates increased so much

 

[Bill McCai]

Swiss Ramble will have a much better take on it than anyone on here

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Well, that’s a gamble. While 6 points is now a precedent, it’s by no means a limit. Everton successfully argued their losses were only marginally above the 105m allowed. Had they or another club gone all out, spent say twice the allowable limit, then the penalty may well be significantly higher. Secondly, as clubs like Forest demonstrate, spending big is no guarantee of greater success. So even if the deduction were only 6 points, the benefit may not exceed it. Finally, it’s hardly in the interests of owners to keep running big losses if they own the club as a business.

Well, 'marginally' by £19.5m.

Trouble for us talking about our accounts is that even with the accounts published we still have no real certainty about how close we were.

 

[Oliwolf44]

Does show how little ticket prices have an effect on ffp and overall balance, narrative etc.
"Gate receipts grew £1.8m (14%) from £13.3m to £15.1m"
That £1.8m is a drop in the ocean lol, paid £5million more in interest so theres all the increases wiped out and then some.

We pay higher prices so we can compete with Man United......... (clown face now missing from emojis )

 

[hollo]

Craig Spillard has estimated we will lose 5 million for next year.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

You can all spray figures around
to try to second guess something you haven’t got a clue about, but it’s all irrelevant really.

Wolves are an established club in the biggest league in the world.
Our owners are also investing large amounts each year.

We don’t have a recognised CF at the club but we do have two players on loan on whom we spent over £60m and have barely played for us.

You can say what you like but if the manager of such a club wants a CF (which ours does) and we find ourselves in a position where we can’t afford Che Adam’s then something is wrong somewhere (and i think most people know where that is).

Semedos fault

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Craig Spillard has estimated we will lose 5 million for next year.

Ok ill bite who the **** is Craig Spillard?

 

[SA Wolf]

Does show how little ticket prices have an effect on ffp and overall balance, narrative etc.
"Gate receipts grew £1.8m (14%) from £13.3m to £15.1m"
That £1.8m is a drop in the ocean lol, paid £5million more in interest so theres all the increases wiped out and then some.

We pay higher prices so we can compete with Man United......... (clown face now missing from emojis )

You're right. Live attendances should be scrapped and everyone subscribe to Sky or their local provider. That is where the money comes from.

 

[SA Wolf]

Ok ill bite who the **** is Craig Spillard?

Don't really care, never heard of him, but if he can play as a striker and costs less than £35m - GERRIMMMINNN!!!

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Well, 'marginally' by £19.5m.

Trouble for us talking about our accounts is that even with the accounts published we still have no real certainty about how close we were.

Well being over by 19.5m is maybe sufficient to buy one moderately priced player, and I doubt sufficient on its own to offset a 6 pt deduction.

We know how close we were based on the published accounts. It was spelt out back in January and the detailed accounts just confirm those figures. It’s less clear how much wiggle room we had this financial year, as those figures haven’t been finalised yet.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Does show how little ticket prices have an effect on ffp and overall balance, narrative etc.
"Gate receipts grew £1.8m (14%) from £13.3m to £15.1m"
That £1.8m is a drop in the ocean lol, paid £5million more in interest so theres all the increases wiped out and then some.

We pay higher prices so we can compete with Man United......... (clown face now missing from emojis )

It does for Wolves yes, but it is much higher for some other clubs.

 

[Oliwolf44]

You're right. Live attendances should be scrapped and everyone subscribe to Sky or their local provider. That is where the money comes from.

probably is the future.
just calling out the nonsense that clubs use to justify increasing ticket prices. Whether people pay them is entirely their right and the fact that most games sell out means the club clearly got the pricing strategy pretty much bob on for prem games (maybe not midweek cup matches though!)
Juat dont **** on people and tell them its raining!

 

[North West Wanderer]

Ok ill bite who the **** is Craig Spillard?

was Penks Wolf on here and owns and runs a highly successful and decent sized firm in the Midlands, i know Craig and he very much knows his stuff.

 

[wwbug]

Lets understand these figures. This was down to poor football management. Wolves aren't always doomed to lose money that would break FFP rules .
Relegation was a very strong probability due to awful football decisions .
We only lost this scale of money last year because we had to avoid relegation.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Lets understand these figures. This was down to poor football management. Wolves aren't always doomed to lose money .
Relegation was a very strong probability due to awful football decisions .
We only lost money last year because we had to avoid relegation.

Well the first part certainly.
Not so much the second part. Wages for Lopetegui, some January purchases (amortised) accounted for maybe £15-20m of a £67m loss. So the loss was already built by previous decisions, the things we did to stay up were relatively cheap.

 

[AndyY]

………,Finally, it’s hardly in the interests of owners to keep running big losses if they own the club as a business.

It is very easy for fans to spend other peoples money but Fosun have an ambition for us to be self sufficient and to not to have to keep pumping money in!

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

It is very easy for fans to spend other peoples money but Fosun have an ambition for us to be self sufficient and to not to have to keep pumping money in!

Yes, this is what used to drive me mad pre-Fosun, invest the money and become sustainable at a much higher level. That was always the plan and now we need to be breaking even at least in the middle of the Prem - maybe just the odd FA Cup win!

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

As long as we keep who we sign then there’s a logic to this. Fail FFP, strengthen and then do better the next season when we don’t have 6 points deducted. Plus new signings would offset the 6 points if we sign well.

But we almost certainly won't. We're still recovering from our last big splurge.

 

[Oliwolf44]

Everyone gets 1 guess for the profit/loss for this year. Closest gets to be the administrator of this thread for the year until the next set of accounts. Can rule the thread with an iron fist, deleting comments they disagree with and can change their username to Molmix financial wizard.

 

[Oliwolf44]

Ok ill bite who the **** is Craig Spillard?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1764387355027284169

just found this on twitter (X)

 

[Oliwolf44]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1764208462622335413

Not the mexican season ticket holders and chinese gaming enthusiasts failing to come through to help us with FFP again!

 

[Incognito]

FFP designed primarily to maintain the status quo. Whatever happened to speculate to accumulate! Unless we continue to be "lucky" in the transfer market, as we were in January 2023, then cannot see anything other than a future of mid table obscurity or worse, cup competitions being a pleasant distraction!

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1764387355027284169

just found this on twitter (X)

So Craig (probably the most reliable outside the club source) thinks we're going to turn a £5m profit, but the club, via Steve Madley, via The Athletic tell us we're projecting a £37m loss.

Wonder why people are confused?

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Craig Spillard has estimated we will lose 5 million for next year.

He actually says a £5mil profit,but again just speculation and guesswork
He may well know his stuff as you put it but if he correct we fail FFP,ill state right now we wont

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

FFP designed primarily to maintain the status quo. Whatever happened to speculate to accumulate! Unless we continue to be "lucky" in the transfer market, as we were in January 2023, then cannot see anything other than a future of mid table obscurity or worse, cup competitions being a pleasant distraction!

Would you rather us have another 20 years in the Championship obscurity or worse?
Villa/Chelsea have speculated to accumulate hundreds of millions of debt and no guarantee of any success so far

 

[brianm]

You look at these amortization numbers, and goodness that is so much dead money in attackers. Woof.

 

[wwbug]

Well the first part certainly.
Not so much the second part. Wages for Lopetegui, some January purchases (amortised) accounted for maybe £15-20m of a £67m loss. So the loss was already built by previous decisions, the things we did to stay up were relatively cheap.

I meant football mismanagement created the scale of the losses that created a FFP problem . But that didnt come out of the blue. We accumulated big wages and amortisation costs on some very poor football decisions . Silva and Guedes being the obvious ones may be another £15 million per annum - and in the three year FFP cycle £45 million of that £110 million !