Will Thelwell Deliver The Players that Nuno Desires?

[Deleted at request of member 4337]

Worth listening to this podcast with Tim who talks about the recruitment process.

It’s not just Thelwell...

The Athletic Transfer Daily - Monday 13th January - The Ornstein & Chapman Podcast

Brief summary
Team of 7 under John Marshall the team has expanded over the last few years.
Nuno has the final say, very picky loads of background done before even contacting the clubs.
Use Mendes a lot as has instinctive links with lots of clubs. Everyone relaxed at the club that additions will come and the club still in good position.
Minimum 2 forward players but as our front three set in stone looking for players wiling to sit on bench which is difficult
Cutrone disruptive and sulky which Nuno doesn't tolerate so allowed to go as soon as offer came in

 

[Jay Jay de Wolf]

Brief summary
Team of 7 under John Marshall the team has expanded over the last few years.
Nuno has the final say, very picky loads of background done before even contacting the clubs.
Use Mendes a lot as has instinctive links with lots of clubs. Everyone relaxed at the club that additions will come and the club still in good position.Minimum 2 forward players but as our front three set in stone looking for players wiling to sit on bench which is difficult
Cutrone disruptive and sulky which Nuno doesn't tolerate so allowed to go as soon as offer came in

Thanks for posting this @WarstonesWolf .. I don't like the bit that says " Everyone relaxed at the club " that could mean complacency is setting in? Nuno doesn't look so relaxed lately on the touchline? He wants the recruitment team to work hard like the players always do!

 

[Deleted at request of member 4337]

Thanks for posting this @WarstonesWolf .. I don't like the bit that says " Everyone relaxed at the club " that could mean complacency is setting in? Nuno doesn't look so relaxed lately on the touchline? He wants the recruitment team to work hard like the players always do!

It was in response to the fans being anxious, the club aren't also stated that Nuno is very happy.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Brief summary
Team of 7 under John Marshall the team has expanded over the last few years.
Nuno has the final say, very picky loads of background done before even contacting the clubs.
Use Mendes a lot as has instinctive links with lots of clubs. Everyone relaxed at the club that additions will come and the club still in good position.
Minimum 2 forward players but as our front three set in stone looking for players wiling to sit on bench which is difficult
Cutrone disruptive and sulky which Nuno doesn't tolerate so allowed to go as soon as offer came in

so the morons singling out thelwell can do one now then - nice one

 

[Jay Jay de Wolf]

It was in response to the fans being anxious, the club aren't also stated that Nuno is very happy.

That's contrary to all the reports about Nuno being happy after the game Saturday
and with him anxious it seems to bringing fresh faces into WWFC like this says here.."Back Him Or Lose Him" – These Wolves Fans Urge The Board To Listen To Nuno's Recent Words | Vital Wolverhampton Wanderers

 

[The Runner]

That's contrary to all the reports about Nuno being happy after the game Saturday
and with him anxious it seems to bringing fresh faces into WWFC like this says here.."Back Him Or Lose Him" – These Wolves Fans Urge The Board To Listen To Nuno's Recent Words | Vital Wolverhampton Wanderers

Did you read John Davies's note of sanity at the bottom of that article or just the hysteria above it? No, thought not...

 

[manc_wolf]

That's contrary to all the reports about Nuno being happy after the game Saturday
and with him anxious it seems to bringing fresh faces into WWFC like this says here.."Back Him Or Lose Him" – These Wolves Fans Urge The Board To Listen To Nuno's Recent Words | Vital Wolverhampton Wanderers

I cannot believe you've resorted to quoting an article which simply reports tweets by "fans" who are merely whingeing / pant-wetting / moaning at the lack of business in the transfer window to make your point. You've had your points ****ed on by the Athletic piece above, so now you twist it by implying that everyone is "too relaxed" - come on mate...

 

[manc_wolf]

There is a lot of fact-twisting on here, it's quite embarrassing to be honest. I get that fans are nervous, but this hysteria - and yes, it is hysterical - really is embarrassing.

Of course, Nuno isn't happy that Cutrone didn't work out - they probably scouted him for months, and he probably ticked all the boxes in terms of skills, attributes, character - and I suspect they made a huge investment in time - with other players - ensuring that he fit into the squad, the team ethos, Nuno's idea, the overall philosophy, and the systems we play.

We don't know why he then wanted to leave, but it's very clear from everything that's been said, and all the reports, that he wanted to leave. Nuno was clearly forced into selling him, and that probably ****es him off - I imagine he doesn't like to be forced to do anything, or doesn't like anything that interrupts the progress of this project.

But, no way was Cutrone a panic buy - absolutely not a chance - we physically stalked him for weeks throughout summer, and we were pretty much relentless in our closing of this deal - and this is just what was in the public domain, never mind what went on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Maybe Nuno thought he could make him fit into this really tight-knit squad - understandable given the massive success he's had at doing exactly this with other players - I wouldn't argue with his judgement on ANYTHING.

Maybe it was just one step too far out of the box - i.e. no other Italians in the first team, guy still lived at home with his parents prior to moving, still very young, wasn't in or around the first team for a few weeks, never left Italy etc etc. These are all human factors and the types of things that Nuno and the club deals with EXCEPTIONALLY WELL normally, so yes, it's frustrating. Doesn't mean the window was a disaster to me, we tried - it didn't work out 6 months later for reasons outside of the clubs or Nuno's control - these things happen.

Given what we knew at the time, it was still not a bad decision to buy him, and ultimately we got him off the books, and got our money back. Some transfers work out, some don't - this is a fact. As we are a growing club, we won't get every single transfer decision right. We learn from it, and we move on. I can't stand all this criticism levied at the club, including Thelwell, by geniuses who now all of a sudden have the benefit of hindsight.

We have 2 weeks left of the transfer window to go, Wolves are clearly trying to do something. Let's have the post mortem once the window is closed, and all the "I told you so" geniuses can all come out in full force then...

 

[Jay Jay de Wolf]

I cannot believe you've resorted to quoting an article which simply reports tweets by "fans" who are merely whingeing / pant-wetting / moaning at the lack of business in the transfer window to make your point. You've had your points ****ed on by the Athletic piece above, so now you twist it by implying that everyone is "too relaxed" - come on mate...

It was in response to the fans being anxious, the club aren't also stated that Nuno is very happy.

Maybe a mistake to put report from that article from that report yet not this one
"WOLVES OFFICIAL WEBSITE" is saying NUNO is NOT HAPPY and frustrated.... So who do you believe Nuno or Spiers?
Nuno quotes..
On always wanting more
“I’m not happy because we didn’t perform like we all wish, like we expect and should do. I always want perfection and sometimes days like this happen.”
On the need to bring players in
“It’s obvious that we must bring in players. Today was not the best, it was difficult, not many spaces, but the final delivery should be better.
“We are working and hopefully things work out and we can solve it. We need solutions, we need more than specific position, players that can bring us different situations, that can help us in these kind of games.”
Nuno on Newcastle frustrations

 

[manc_wolf]

Maybe a mistake to put report from that article from that report yet not this one
"WOLVES OFFICIAL WEBSITE" is saying NUNO is NOT HAPPY and frustrated.... So who do you believe Nuno or Spiers?
Nuno quotes..
On always wanting more
“I’m not happy because we didn’t perform like we all wish, like we expect and should do. I always want perfection and sometimes days like this happen.”
On the need to bring players in
“It’s obvious that we must bring in players. Today was not the best, it was difficult, not many spaces, but the final delivery should be better.
“We are working and hopefully things work out and we can solve it. We need solutions, we need more than specific position, players that can bring us different situations, that can help us in these kind of games.”
Nuno on Newcastle frustrations

Absolutely nothing wrong with that article, he's telling it like it is. It's hardly "back Nuno or lose him" though, like the other article - he's just stating it like it is - "we need solutions, and we're working on bring players in to help us" - this is what he keeps saying in every interview, because in every interview, he's being asked what's going on with transfers. This is all.

Now let's see what the next couple of weeks brings, and how Nuno thinks the transfer window went in 2-3 weeks time...

 

[The Runner]

Maybe a mistake to put report from that article from that report yet not this one
"WOLVES OFFICIAL WEBSITE" is saying NUNO is NOT HAPPY and frustrated.... So who do you believe Nuno or Spiers?
Nuno quotes..
On always wanting more
“I’m not happy because we didn’t perform like we all wish, like we expect and should do. I always want perfection and sometimes days like this happen.”
On the need to bring players in
“It’s obvious that we must bring in players. Today was not the best, it was difficult, not many spaces, but the final delivery should be better.
“We are working and hopefully things work out and we can solve it. We need solutions, we need more than specific position, players that can bring us different situations, that can help us in these kind of games.”
Nuno on Newcastle frustrations

But he's not happy and frustrated with the game and performance. Where does he say he's not happy and frustrated with the recruitment situation?

 

[VancouverWolf]

There is a lot of fact-twisting on here, it's quite embarrassing to be honest. I get that fans are nervous, but this hysteria - and yes, it is hysterical - really is embarrassing.

Of course, Nuno isn't happy that Cutrone didn't work out - they probably scouted him for months, and he probably ticked all the boxes in terms of skills, attributes, character - and I suspect they made a huge investment in time - with other players - ensuring that he fit into the squad, the team ethos, Nuno's idea, the overall philosophy, and the systems we play.

We don't know why he then wanted to leave, but it's very clear from everything that's been said, and all the reports, that he wanted to leave. Nuno was clearly forced into selling him, and that probably ****es him off - I imagine he doesn't like to be forced to do anything, or doesn't like anything that interrupts the progress of this project.

But, no way was Cutrone a panic buy - absolutely not a chance - we physically stalked him for weeks throughout summer, and we were pretty much relentless in our closing of this deal - and this is just what was in the public domain, never mind what went on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Maybe Nuno thought he could make him fit into this really tight-knit squad - understandable given the massive success he's had at doing exactly this with other players - I wouldn't argue with his judgement on ANYTHING.

Maybe it was just one step too far out of the box - i.e. no other Italians in the first team, guy still lived at home with his parents prior to moving, still very young, wasn't in or around the first team for a few weeks, never left Italy etc etc. These are all human factors and the types of things that Nuno and the club deals with EXCEPTIONALLY WELL normally, so yes, it's frustrating. Doesn't mean the window was a disaster to me, we tried - it didn't work out 6 months later for reasons outside of the clubs or Nuno's control - these things happen.


Given what we knew at the time, it was still not a bad decision to buy him, and ultimately we got him off the books, and got our money back. Some transfers work out, some don't - this is a fact. As we are a growing club, we won't get every single transfer decision right. We learn from it, and we move on. I can't stand all this criticism levied at the club, including Thelwell, by geniuses who now all of a sudden have the benefit of hindsight.

We have 2 weeks left of the transfer window to go, Wolves are clearly trying to do something. Let's have the post mortem once the window is closed, and all the "I told you so" geniuses can all come out in full force then...

Great read. Common sense.

 

[Wolf316]

It was in response to the fans being anxious, the club aren't also stated that Nuno is very happy.

To be fair it’s not like the club are going to say Nuno isn’t happy are they?

 

[Jay Jay de Wolf]

For the 3rd time lucky for Runner hopefully..
NUNO “It’s obvious that we must bring in players " ..
There is where he's not happy at all with the out goings. Cutrone saga especially and lack of in comings so far this January window .
Things can only get better from now until the end of the transfer window maybe

 

[The Runner]

For the 3rd time lucky for Runner hopefully..
NUNO “It’s obvious that we must bring in players " ..
There is where he's not happy at all with the out goings. Cutrone saga especially and lack of in comings so far this January window .
Things can only get better from now until the end of the transfer window maybe

That's a lot to read into 7 words. Nothing about being unhappy, nothing about Cutrone, nothing about lack of incomings. You're just making assumptions to fit your agenda.

Edit: Apologies, it's 8 words.

 

[wwbug]

For the 598378477th time he worked to the budget set down by the owners and provided lists of players to Kenny Jackett. In league one we made some very astute signings in Ricketts, Golbourne, Jacobs, Henry, McDonald, Dicko. After promotion obviously Afobe is the standout but they also made money on Bodvarsson and Marshall and I’d argue the subsequent careers of the likes of Van la parra, Saville and Wallace shows they were decent buys for where we were at the time. You could add Iorfa and Hause into that list too and unfortunately due to injury we never saw the potential of Graham and Zyro both of whom made immediate impacts in the team before serious injury.

Not huge gambles but Ruddy and Bennett were astute signings too and of course Barry Douglas.

Yes there were failures too but that’s not a bad list.

Yes I understand - that makes him a very good division one or mid table Championship man, but that doesn't make him a football director of an aspirational Premiership Club wanting to take on European football .
By a very long way. Surely you can see that we are fishing in wider and deeper ponds. Where knowledge is key.
Just maybe he is tasked with finding English young talent from the lower leagues.
But if we rely on him as the top football man and recruiter of European and world players we are shot.

 

[wwbug]

Brief summary
Team of 7 under John Marshall the team has expanded over the last few years.
Nuno has the final say, very picky loads of background done before even contacting the clubs.
Use Mendes a lot as has instinctive links with lots of clubs. Everyone relaxed at the club that additions will come and the club still in good position.
Minimum 2 forward players but as our front three set in stone looking for players wiling to sit on bench which is difficult
Cutrone disruptive and sulky which Nuno doesn't tolerate so allowed to go as soon as offer came in

Now that all makes sense. I believe they could be relaxed because they know recruitment will eventually come good.

 

[SakosRightFoot]

Yes I understand - that makes him a very good division one or mid table Championship man, but that doesn't make him a football director of an aspirational Premiership Club wanting to take on European football .
By a very long way. Surely you can see that we are fishing in wider and deeper ponds. Where knowledge is key.
And if we rely on him as the top football man and recruiter of players then we would be shot.

Why doesn’t it? He works with what he’s got. How do you know he doesn’t have the required knowledge? Truth is we have been exceptionally fortunate to have a strong relationship with one of the best agents around so we’ve been able to sign players other clubs in our position wouldn’t have been able to, but the point shown above is that he adapted to finding us good players for the levels we’ve been at before so why write him off now.

 

[manc_wolf]

Anyone writing off Thelwell should listen to the Athletic podcast. It's a great insight into how Thelwell has built a team of some of the world's finest scouts. I'm not concerned at all about how this club is progressing, and if all these negative pant-wetters took their blinkers off, opened their eyes and their minds to what we are doing behind the scenes to build and grow this club to compete - and accept that this DOES NOT happen over 1 or even 2 or 3 transfer windows - then you might just appreciate this journey we're on for what it is... a journey.

 

[A3wolf]

Personally would prefer us to invest in a number of Neto type of profile players rather than a big name. It’s a good point that you need a profile of a player who will be still motivated if on the bench and we need 4-5 as out recent benches for me have been largely made up of players who would struggle even in the Championship imo.
As an alternative, think there are proven more senior non big name players who could fit in well. Thinking there of someone like Mooy who I think wouldn’t be overly expensive.
Just concerns me that while we have a great core of first teamers there’s a massive drop in standard to the back ups.

 

[Metal Wolf89]

I'm hoping he pulls some out the bag soon, not that I'm worried or anything....

 

[Mugwump]

so the morons singling out thelwell can do one now then - nice one

There arent any morons singling out thelwell. Not really any need to be so rude to people quite honestly.

 

[Mugwump]

Anyone writing off Thelwell should listen to the Athletic podcast. It's a great insight into how Thelwell has built a team of some of the world's finest scouts. I'm not concerned at all about how this club is progressing, and if all these negative pant-wetters took their blinkers off, opened their eyes and their minds to what we are doing behind the scenes to build and grow this club to compete - and accept that this DOES NOT happen over 1 or even 2 or 3 transfer windows - then you might just appreciate this journey we're on for what it is... a journey.

With all due respect, i've heard it all before about whats been going on with him. 6 years ago i was getting told he needed time and he needed better resources. 3 years ago i was getting told the same thing. Now the same thing is being said. Scouting good players really isnt that difficult at the level we are at now, especially with the volume of players we are told we look at. If we have a team of the finest scouts there really can be no more excuses for us not finding the right players we need can there? We must have a hell of a lot of options.

Like i keep saying though, the proof of the pudding will be in what we come up with who Mendes doesn't influence to come here. I keep banging this drum, but we havent brought in a first team player since July 2018. Thats pretty poor no matter how people dress it up and i think even a mediocre set up would have done better, let alone one as great as ours apparently is.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

With all due respect, i've heard it all before about whats been going on with him. 6 years ago i was getting told he needed time and he needed better resources. 3 years ago i was getting told the same thing. Now the same thing is being said. Scouting good players really isnt that difficult at the level we are at now, especially with the volume of players we are told we look at. If we have a team of the finest scouts there really can be no more excuses for us not finding the right players we need can there? We must have a hell of a lot of options.

Like i keep saying though, the proof of the pudding will be in what we come up with who Mendes doesn't influence to come here. I keep banging this drum, but we havent brought in a first team player since July 2018. Thats pretty poor no matter how people dress it up and i think even a mediocre set up would have done better, let alone one as great as ours apparently is.

Echoes things Ive said before. I might have my view on this affected by where I live and the club I have nearby, but when i see what they do, without having to talk about how great they are in the press, and what Wolves do, with all the talk put out about how great our academy is, how extensive our scouting is etc, etc.. Its quite irritating, as I have said earlier in the thread.

 

[Mugwump]

Echoes things Ive said before. I might have my view on this affected by where I live and the club I have nearby, but when i see what they do, without having to talk about how great they are in the press, and what Wolves do, with all the talk put out about how great our academy is, how extensive our scouting is etc, etc.. Its quite irritating, as I have said earlier in the thread.

I'm more than happy tbh for Thelwell to prove to me that he isnt the bluffer i think he is. Must admit, i dont like how he constantly has to talk up what he is doing for the club. We dont need to know. We just need to see it. Ajax are a great example. They just get the job done.

 

[Haggstone]

So what you’re saying is that it’s ‘not that difficult’ to not only find players that are good enough to play for a top six team (a rarity in itself) but also somehow to find and source players that haven’t already been spotted by the plethora of other clubs across Europe that are all looking for the same?

I’m no expert but to me that sounds like a task that is anything but easy.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

So what you’re saying is that it’s ‘not that difficult’ to not only find players that are good enough to play for a top six team (a rarity in itself) but also somehow to find and source players that haven’t already been spotted by the plethora of other clubs across Europe that are all looking for the same?

I’m no expert but to me that sounds like a task that is anything but easy.

Youre asking for the impossible there. Like I said before, these days scouting networks are so big that no player with any modicum of talent is unnoticed by many clubs, to find a player thays good enough for us, and be completely unknown, or even alightly off the grid is something akin to turning water into wine these days. Especially when all clubs have at their hands, and do actually use the largest crowdsourced scouting dataset on earth in The FM games. (No joke, they actually use it)

 

[sillytuna]

For the 3rd time lucky for Runner hopefully..
NUNO “It’s obvious that we must bring in players " ..
There is where he's not happy at all with the out goings. Cutrone saga especially and lack of in comings so far this January window .
Things can only get better from now until the end of the transfer window maybe

He has also said january is not the time although obviously they are trying.

 

[Stratman Wolves]

Brief summary
Team of 7 under John Marshall the team has expanded over the last few years.
Nuno has the final say, very picky loads of background done before even contacting the clubs.
Use Mendes a lot as has instinctive links with lots of clubs. Everyone relaxed at the club that additions will come and the club still in good position.
Minimum 2 forward players but as our front three set in stone looking for players wiling to sit on bench which is difficult
Cutrone disruptive and sulky which Nuno doesn't tolerate so allowed to go as soon as offer came in

His body language and expressions on the pitch said it all.

 

[Mugwump]

So what you’re saying is that it’s ‘not that difficult’ to not only find players that are good enough to play for a top six team (a rarity in itself) but also somehow to find and source players that haven’t already been spotted by the plethora of other clubs across Europe that are all looking for the same?

I’m no expert but to me that sounds like a task that is anything but easy.

I haven't said anything of the sort. I've said its not difficult to scout players and find good players. It really isn't difficult at all. Never said a thing about finding players nobody else has seen.

We need to use Mendes to persuade talent to come here, but its also about taking calculated gambles on players from weaker leagues and developing them. For example, De Bruyne when he was at Genk, Haaland when he was at Molde, Salah from Basel etc, those sort of players with obvious natural talent but also the determination to improve themselves. Maybe throw in a couple of players who have lost their way a bit and resurrect their careers and thats how we can achieve great things.

 

[SA Wolf]

Be interesting to understand who we got directly through our relationship with Mendes and who Thelwell and his team scouted for us to fully answer the OP's question. My gut reaction is that the majority of good signings made since Nuno joined the club have been because of Mendes, but I wait to be corrected.

 

[DanishWolf]

I'm more than happy tbh for Thelwell to prove to me that he isnt the bluffer i think he is. Must admit, i dont like how he constantly has to talk up what he is doing for the club. We dont need to know. We just need to see it. Ajax are a great example. They just get the job done.

When is Thelwell actually talking up what he's doing? I see other people talking him up, but I've rarely heard him do it

 

[Haggstone]

I haven't said anything of the sort. I've said its not difficult to scout players and find good players. It really isn't difficult at all. Never said a thing about finding players nobody else has seen.

We need to use Mendes to persuade talent to come here, but its also about taking calculated gambles on players from weaker leagues and developing them. For example, De Bruyne when he was at Genk, Haaland when he was at Molde, Salah from Basel etc, those sort of players with obvious natural talent but also the determination to improve themselves. Maybe throw in a couple of players who have lost their way a bit and resurrect their careers and thats how we can achieve great things.

If doing all of those things was easy I imagine everyone would be doing it.

 

[ladywolf]

Why are people comparing Thelwell to Mendes? They have different jobs.
As far as I see it, Thelwell and the recruitment team have to find players to suit our system. They then provide this list to Nuno (as he has the nod on players) and Jeff (for budget). They then agree to go after a number of players, and this is where Mendes can help due to his links with clubs or other agents. They all work on getting the players in. Sometimes it’s down to budget (Dias) or a player doesn’t really want to be here (Kessie). I’m sure we’ve gone after players that would have improved the team that we haven’t managed to get, which you can blame on Thelwell. I’d rather us have a small squad of players we want than a bloated squad of crap which we’ve always had in the past.

 

[Bondi Wolf]

We need to use Mendes to persuade talent to come here, but its also about taking calculated gambles on players from weaker leagues and developing them. For example, De Bruyne when he was at Genk, Haaland when he was at Molde, Salah from Basel etc, those sort of players with obvious natural talent but also the determination to improve themselves. Maybe throw in a couple of players who have lost their way a bit and resurrect their careers and thats how we can achieve great things.

Of course Wolves will be the only club in the world doing this. All the other clubs "buy high sell low" whereas Mugwump has turned it around to "buy low sell high." Bravo.

 

[Mugwump]

If doing all of those things was easy I imagine everyone would be doing it.

Everyone is doing it pretty much I'd say. Some clubs just take the risks, others dont.

 

[Mugwump]

When is Thelwell actually talking up what he's doing? I see other people talking him up, but I've rarely heard him do it

Theres quite a few interviews with him on top of the fans parliament stuff if you have a look.

 

[SakosRightFoot]

Everyone is doing it pretty much I'd say. Some clubs just take the risks, others dont.

Come on Mugwump you know not every club are doing it, Villa just signed Danny Drinkwater and are linked with a return for Christian Benteke for goodness sake

What if Nuno doesn’t want the Haaland of Molde or KdB of Genk? We have no idea if those kind of players have been put forward and Nuno has said no. It’s just guessing that they’re not doing what you want them to

 

[Mugwump]

Of course Wolves will be the only club in the world doing this. All the other clubs "buy high sell low" whereas Mugwump has turned it around to "buy low sell high." Bravo.

What a load of rubbish. Thats not what i've said at all. What i've clearly said is we have to buy potential and develop it, but its got to be potential that can be a first team player or around the first team a lot. We arent in the market of buying the finished article. The only chance of buying a player in that bracket is somebody like Lemar who stock has fallen due to losing form. You are absolutely kidding yourself to think otherwise.

 

[Haggstone]

What a load of rubbish. Thats not what i've said at all. What i've clearly said is we have to buy potential and develop it, but its got to be potential that can be a first team player or around the first team a lot. We arent in the market of buying the finished article. The only chance of buying a player in that bracket is somebody like Lemar who stock has fallen due to losing form. You are absolutely kidding yourself to think otherwise.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting the above is a bad strategy, although there's an argument that actually for where we are we really need signings that will go straight into the first 11, at least in the short term. It’s the idea that doing any of the things you suggest is somehow easy. Far from it as far as I can see.