Why the Back Four tonight?

[goldfish]

I can't see the logic at all, but there are four possible reasons. They're not mutually exclusive, but what do we think was the dominant factor?

 

[Fenrir_]

Option 4. Maybe he thinks we're fine and is test running for next season. Good lesson tonight - not that it's been too much of a surprise really. Back four and we're quite good going forward, we don't have the centre halves to play it though

 

[Monketron]

I can't see the logic at all, but there are four possible reasons. They're not mutually exclusive, but what do we think was the dominant factor?

It did seem weird, given what West Ham did to us earlier this season, why would you play so open again? We really sold both Coady and Saiss down the river given them so little protection.

 

[Corporate Wolf]

Option 4. Maybe he thinks we're fine and is test running for next season. Good lesson tonight - not that it's been too much of a surprise really. Back four and we're quite good going forward, we don't have the centre halves to play it though

Think the only lesson he learnt is that he won’t be using Saiss & Coady

 

[Golden_Wolf]

If the reason & lesson learned, means we have a top quality CB and not a reliance on Saiss as 1st choice CB next year, great.

 

[tamwolf]

It did seem weird, given what West Ham did to us earlier this season, why would you play so open again? We really sold both Coady and Saiss down the river given them so little protection.

We played 3 at the back earlier this season when they did the same to us. The problem is our defenders are terrible on the turn, so when teams like West Ham run the channels and run at our defenders they look awful regardless of formation.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

When podence plays - we are so much better with 4 at the back going forward

we should have gone 1 0 up but Jose missed the best chance of the match at that point . we had the attacking intent we lacked .

you can’t excuse the individual errors for the 3 goals . Disgraceful from so many players .

I would stick with 4 at the back but play kilman and boly there

 

[Olivergoldblack]

Totally asking for trouble with those players and a back 4. Ait nouri and semedo too attacking to be reliable defenders in a 4, but great in a 343, and coady and saiss are midfielders disguised as defenders. That first goal summed it all up tonight.

 

[NewarkWolf]

Totally asking for trouble with those players and a back 4. Ait nouri and semedo too attacking to be reliable defenders in a 4, but great in a 343, and coady and saiss are midfielders disguised as defenders. That first goal summed it all up tonight.

Why buy those two when the plan was to change to a back 4 requiring a more defensive minded set of full back?? Again another example of poor recruitment.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Option 4. Maybe he thinks we're fine and is test running for next season. Good lesson tonight - not that it's been too much of a surprise really. Back four and we're quite good going forward, we don't have the centre halves to play it though

Do you think it is just the centre halfs? I think our current combination of fullbacks and defensive midfielders isn't suited to it.

 

[tamwolf]

Totally asking for trouble with those players and a back 4. Ait nouri and semedo too attacking to be reliable defenders in a 4, but great in a 343, and coady and saiss are midfielders disguised as defenders. That first goal summed it all up tonight.

The centre backs will rightly get stick for the first goal, but I think the person most guilty in that was Dendoncker. He had the perfect opportunity to trip Lingard 30 yards out, but instead deliberately tried to avoid fouling him showing a complete lack of awareness of the situation.

Any other team in the Premier League would have committed a tactical foul for that goal given the chance when there is a 2 on 2 situation. The same for the third goal too.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

The centre backs will rightly get stick for the first goal, but I think the person most guilty in that was Dendoncker. He had the perfect opportunity to trip Lingard 30 yards out, but instead deliberately tried to avoid fouling him showing a complete lack of awareness of the situation.

Any other team in the Premier League would have committed a tactical foul for that goal given the chance when there is a 2 on 2 situation. The same for the third goal too.

How often do teams leave themselves in a 2 on 2 situation at this standard of football?
For me when I see how often it is happening with our guys when we have the back four, I really worry.

 

[JOSWolf]

Is it fair to say Kilman is on his bike in the summer? Looks to me like Nuno doesnt want to play him anymore.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Combination of 1 and 2. Think if just Boly out then Kilman plays. With Mouts missing too, he wanted Donks in midfield.

 

[WolfLing]

Little bit of all of them I think.

 

[Fenrir_]

Do you think it is just the centre halfs? I think our current combination of fullbacks and defensive midfielders isn't suited to it.

The full backs and midfielders could play it, the centre backs couldn't. While some blame could be levelled at all parties for the goals tonight the centre backs were the biggest problem.

We were pretty good going forward, I'm sure most people would be happy with that attacking intent. We need better defenders to allow that to happen

 

[Welford Wolf]

If you are going to play all of Neto, Podence Traore and a striker then a player has to come from somewhere....

But playing two of our slowest people in Saiss and Coady in a back four was always going to be a disaster! Especially when Ait Nouri and Samedo are wing backs not full back.

 

[old wittonian]

Combination of 1 and 2. Think if just Boly out then Kilman plays. With Mouts missing too, he wanted Donks in midfield.

Yet Saiss and Neves were very good in midfield in the Championship.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Yet Saiss and Neves were very good in midfield in the Championship.

They were. Not sure why but Nuno doesn’t seem keen in the PL.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

The full backs and midfielders could play it, the centre backs couldn't. While some blame could be levelled at all parties for the goals tonight the centre backs were the biggest problem.

We were pretty good going forward, I'm sure most people would be happy with that attacking intent. We need better defenders to allow that to happen

They really weren't though. 2 on 2 at this level of football the attackers win.
We have 2 full backs both pushing on at the same time and noone coming in from midfield to plug the gaps. This has been the recurring problem from day one in this formation. You can't play 2 at the back. You will get destroyed. When Liverpool played us they pushed both full backs forward, but the way their two dms cut in the gaps they left; I don't think any of ours have got the pace to do that. We could play more defensive minded full backs, but we've just spent 30million plus on a guy that doesn't convince me at all defensively.

 

[Pagey]

Fifth option: to entertain the molineux mix members

 

[inaglasshouse]

Fifth option: to entertain the molineux mix members

Exactly, Nuno gives them entertainment now they want him sacked for providing it.

 

[goldeneyed]

One of the great mysteries is why Kilman has been sent into the outer darkness after many good performances. Semedo is a poor defender as is Ait Nouri. Coady is inadequate in a back four and Saiss is unpredicatble to say the least. We got what we deserved in that disastrous first half.

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

Is it fair to say Kilman is on his bike in the summer? Looks to me like Nuno doesnt want to play him anymore.

Ive always thought Kilman has played well when given the chance

 

[Bugsy911]

I'd have played Kilman left centre back as he had a stinker right side against Burnley ,Swiss and Coady should never be in a back 4 again.

 

[tamwolf]

How often do teams leave themselves in a 2 on 2 situation at this standard of football?
For me when I see how often it is happening with our guys when we have the back four, I really worry.

Not often. It only really happened once in our game for the first goal. A tactical foul would have stopped it. All other teams do it, as we see regularly on Adama and Neto when they end up running at defenders. The third goal Lingard ran through a load of our players rather than being in a 2 on 2 situation.

We weren't very smart in either of those situations. West Ham took 3 or 4 bookings for cynical fouls throughout the game, stopping a number of our attacks which had the potential to build like their goals. I don't think we did it at all in the entire game, which cost us twice.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Makes me laugh how all season a majority have complained we are incredibly boring(which we undoubtedly have been) and tonight we change it and actually look mildly interesting and everyone wants to go back to being incredibly boring.

 

[tamwolf]

Makes me laugh how all season a majority have complained we are incredibly boring(which we undoubtedly have been) and tonight we change it and actually look mildly interesting and everyone wants to go back to being incredibly boring.

Well that's it. When people say they want to go back to three at the back, what they actually mean is they want our defenders to go back to defending with men behind the ball; which will ultimately lead to us being a boring team again.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Give me tonight any day over another turgid 0-0, 0-1, 1-0, 1-1 effort.

 

[RJs Tankard]

Is it fair to say Kilman is on his bike in the summer? Looks to me like Nuno doesnt want to play him anymore.

Could be the opposite perhaps?

Maybe Nuno accepts that this season has been poor - so rather than put him in the side and having his confidence knocked this season, he plans to use him more next season and therefore wants to keep him in a more positive frame of mind?

 

[The Wolf In The North]

If I had to bet on it, I'd say he planned to play with a back four tonight but with Boly and Coady, up until Boly's positive test. I think Nuno knows we can't just keep grinding with a back three.

 

[Fenrir_]

They really weren't though. 2 on 2 at this level of football the attackers win.
We have 2 full backs both pushing on at the same time and noone coming in from midfield to plug the gaps. This has been the recurring problem from day one in this formation. You can't play 2 at the back. You will get destroyed. When Liverpool played us they pushed both full backs forward, but the way their two dms cut in the gaps they left; I don't think any of ours have got the pace to do that. We could play more defensive minded full backs, but we've just spent 30million plus on a guy that doesn't convince me at all defensively.

Two on two?? We had five on one for the third goal and didn't defend it! Centre halves were a massive problem tonight, didn't have a clue where they needed to be

 

[JOSWolf]

Could be the opposite perhaps?

Maybe Nuno accepts that this season has been poor - so rather than put him in the side and having his confidence knocked this season, he plans to use him more next season and therefore wants to keep him in a more positive frame of mind?

I'm really not sure about that. I think he seems to be out of favour now.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Could be the opposite perhaps?

Maybe Nuno accepts that this season has been poor - so rather than put him in the side and having his confidence knocked this season, he plans to use him more next season and therefore wants to keep him in a more positive frame of mind?

like playing him at fullback

 

[DJMolineux]

Nothing wrong with having four at the back when you have four defenders that are suited to playing in a four at the back. Semedo and Ait Nouri are both much more effective as wing backs than full backs. Saiss has the turning speed of a chieftain tank and players running with the ball just need to knock it past him and he is out of the game. And Coady has been excellent for us in the sweeper role at the centre of the three but in a back four when he has to face up to the attackers he is badly exposed.

The two defenders we have that probably could play successfully in a back four are Boly and Jonny. Possibly also Kilman.

it might make for a better game for the neutrals playing this way, but nothing fun about watching us defend so incompetently and giving us a mountain to climb

 

[Jay Jay de Wolf]

Nothing wrong with having four at the back when you have four defenders that are suited to playing in a four at the back. Semedo and Ait Nouri are both much more effective as wing backs than full backs. Saiss has the turning speed of a chieftain tank and players running with the ball just need to knock it past him and he is out of the game. And Coady has been excellent for us in the sweeper role at the centre of the three but in a back four when he has to face up to the attackers he is badly exposed.

The two defenders we have that probably could play successfully in a back four are Boly and Jonny. Possibly also Kilman.

it might make for a better game for the neutrals playing this way, but nothing fun about watching us defend so incompetently and giving us a mountain to climb

Absolutely this as I said on other Back 4 thread that mods should merge with this?
WHY Nuno? Pick a Back 4 when you find out that our best and most consistent defenders Boly and Jonny are unavailable???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Nuno usually plays it cautiously against top 4 /6 PL teams. Yet tonight he gambled badly playing a weak back 4 from the start imo!

 

[Wolferoo]

The system was not the issue yesterday - we would have conceded those goals with a three at the back because not one player laid a finger of the West Ham players running through.
Our midfield were incapable of taking one for the team and why oh why our defenders back off all of the time rather than engaging the player I do not understand. Siass ran backwards 30 yards for the first goal. He engages Lingard and even if he does not make the tackle it probably slows Lingard down enough for Donk to get in on the act.
We play too much on our heels because we are all about trying to control the space. This means backing off and also in my view why we concede so many from crosses. We don't attack the player crossing the ball which means inevitably we rarely block a cross - look how many times WHU blocked our crosses last night - and the attacker in the middle is often on the front foot with our centre halves also flat footed.
I love Nuno but I do think these are tactical choices in how we play and this season it just hasn't worked. We either need change that and play on the front foot or have quicker/better players as we always get caught out in those situations. It's not just about one game - these have been glaring issues in our approach all season and partly why we haven't kept near enough clean sheets.

 

[pacamac]

Probably 75% option 1, 25% option 2 in all honesty.

 

[Woburn Wolf]

Whenever Nuno has played a back four this season we have been ripped apart defensively which says to me we do not have the players for this formation. If Nuno wants to play a four next season major personnel changes are required with early purchases so that the new players have some time to gel during pre-season. Of the centre backs only Boly is good enough to play in a four and of the full backs/wing backs only Johhny is definitely good enough but given the nature of his injury he may never come back as the player he has been in the past. This means we would need a minimum of three new defenders in the summer to play this formation. Coady, Saiss and Kilman would become surplus to requirements and should be sold in the summer. Semedo and RAN both look more suited to a wing back roles as both are better going forward than they are defensively. Given this, we should not take up the option on RAN and Semedo could also be sold on. Hoever is still young but looks to have the skills to play RB, so may be a starter or at least a sound back up. Sanderson may also be an option at RB and as cover for RCB. One thing is for sure, if Nuno really wants to change to a back four next season major surgery is required in defence.

 

[Leamwolf]

It did seem weird, given what West Ham did to us earlier this season, why would you play so open again? We really sold both Coady and Saiss down the river given them so little protection.

Especially with three weeks to watch the previous match film were sais was responsible for a number of the goals with his decision making or positioning......

In those three weeks, surely he looked at how they created chances for fun and have multiple attacking players in form, but the areas where they have also leaked goals since our game but especially in the weeks before the international break.

it really didn’t feel like lessons had been learned to be honest