Why haven’t we developed a striker?

[Houston Lobo]

It’s been a while since the likes of er, Lee Mills. And obviously, Robbie Keane!

But why don’t strikers come through the ranks, either from the Academy or the young and cheaply acquired path that Bueno, Toti, etc. came in on?

Is it because it’s genuinely a one-in-a-million (now billion) position and the likes of a Harry Kane don’t grow on trees? So much rests on the scouting and development? Or do the big boys prise this talent away even earlier ages now?

Our recent successes seem to be defenders, and we had MGW and still potentially some other promising midfielders, but nothing really further forward. The jury’s out on Chem Campbell even and he doesn’t appear to be a genuine number 9.

 

[VancouverWolf]

It’s been a while since the likes of er, Lee Mills. And obviously, Robbie Keane!

But why don’t strikers come through the ranks, either from the Academy or the young and cheaply acquired path that Bueno, Toti, etc. came in on?

Is it because it’s genuinely a one-in-a-million (now billion) position and the likes of a Harry Kane don’t grow on trees? So much rests on the scouting and development? Or do the big boys prise this talent away even earlier ages now?

Our recent successes seem to be defenders, and we had MGW and still potentially some other promising midfielders, but nothing really further forward. The jury’s out on Chem Campbell even and he doesn’t appear to be a genuine number 9.

Interesting question/thread and I look forward to some replies from fellow Mixers.

 

[QB Wolf]

I was thinking today, who was the last proper established always in the team player that came through the youth system?

 

[92WWFC]

I was thinking today, who was the last proper established always in the team player that came through the youth system?

Probably been a while. Kilman probably doesn't count as he was only in our u23s for one season. MGW had a few seasons as a squad player. Bueno has been a regular starter this season but still his breakthrough season and given there is 3 other players who have covered LB this season the future isn't clear.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I was thinking today, who was the last proper established always in the team player that came through the youth system?

Ikeme??

 

[Mugwump]

Ikeme??

Good Shout. Batth was another. Jack Price as well. You pretty much though have to go back to the Chris Evans era to find any reasonable quality players who played regularly, which is mad really when you think how long ago that was. Murray, Keane, Naylor and Lescott.

 

[SuperGran]

Good Shout. Batth was another. Jack Price as well. You pretty much though have to go back to the Chris Evans era to find any reasonable quality players who played regularly, which is mad really when you think how long ago that was. Murray, Keane, Naylor and Lescott.

Murray Keane naylor lescott all broke into a championship team big difference to premier league. We have players that are doing very well playing at that level

 

[AndyWolves]

Keane signed for us when he was 16 and made his first team debut when he was 17. If Keane counts as an academy product then so should kilman.

 

[JadeWolf]

I was thinking today, who was the last proper established always in the team player that came through the youth system?

Bueno

 

[sedgwolf1980]

Kane aside you can probably count on one hand the amount of one club academy players who are making a genuine impact in the premier league. I don’t think academies are meant to serve that purpose anymore.

 

[QB Wolf]

Bueno

Established though, first name on the team sheet, he’s been in competition with RAN and now being left out for Totti.

He’s a good player and I like him and he may become established, but he’s not on the Lescott, Keane bracket, feels a long time since we had players like that.

 

[JadeWolf]

Established though, first name on the team sheet, he’s been in competition with RAN and now being left out for Totti.

He’s a good player and I like him and he may become established, but he’s not on the Lescott, Keane bracket, feels a long time since we had players like that.

Ikeme, Batth. Kilman was also developed in house in a sense.

 

[Kebab Warrior]

Kane aside you can probably count on one hand the amount of one club academy players who are making a genuine impact in the premier league. I don’t think academies are meant to serve that purpose anymore.

This. Academies generate income. Farm many kids to sell one expensive one.

The probability of finding the next elite striker is mind numbingly small

 

[oldgolded]

I suppose the competition to sign promising youngsters is more intense these days than ever before has possibly got something to do with it.

 

[Mugwump]

Murray Keane naylor lescott all broke into a championship team big difference to premier league. We have players that are doing very well playing at that level

I dont see any players who we have out on loan in the championship that will be much more than championship players. The facts are undeniable at the end of the day, those 4 i mentioned havent as yet been exceeded in a Wolves shirt.

 

[Flump]

Striker and goalkeeper are probably the least likely positions for PL clubs to develop players into, as there's only 1/2 in your team, and the position feels too important to give people a go in. When young strikers are starting out, they tend to be given their first go on the wing, where we're pretty well stocked - but even accounting for that, I don't think we've had any great prospects in the position, otherwise they'd have done well elsewhere on loan.

Established though, first name on the team sheet, he’s been in competition with RAN and now being left out for Totti.

He’s a good player and I like him and he may become established, but he’s not on the Lescott, Keane bracket, feels a long time since we had players like that.

It's also harder for us to develop youngsters than it used to be, because the players they need to displace are far better than in Lescott's day - I'm sure back then, Bueno would've been comfortably first choice.

 

[Mugwump]

Ikeme, Batth. Kilman was also developed in house in a sense.

I think we have done a good job importing good youngsters in like Kilman and Bueno and bringing them on, but we are still waiting for that Premier league quality youngster thats come right through our system, and also a local. MGW would have been the closest so far to being a success. He's a **** though.

 

[waveney wolf]

Because our scouting system is crap

 

[Adrian_Monk]

The probability of developing a top, first-team-ready player is pretty low, so the club has to show parents that even if their son doesn't make it, they are still doing everything they can to give them a career somewhere in football, especially since the better the first team is, the lower that probability becomes.

I think the academy is doing ok. Kilman, Bueno and Hodge may not be locals, but they've graduated to first team duty and two of them are established first teamers.

One of the better regarded academies, Manchester City, also has very few Mancs thriving, but is funding itself and providing opportunities in football for young people. That's the primary objective, as it should be.

Also, IIRC we signed Lee Mills for £250k from Stockbridge Steel.

 

[Dan G WWFC]

I think our academy has been poor for the last decade now. Even know we don't have anybody in the under 21s that look like they'll breakthrough anytime soon.

Giles, Perry, Sanderson and Cundle the best we've offered and I'd imagine they'll all get sold this summer.

Compare that to Villa, who have currently got the Ramsey brothers and Archer that all look like they have the potential to be premier league players. That's after selling Carney Chukwuemeka for £20m.

 

[SuperGran]

I dont see any players who we have out on loan in the championship that will be much more than championship players. The facts are undeniable at the end of the day, those 4 i mentioned havent as yet been exceeded in a Wolves shirt.

The point is that they broke into a championship team. Standards are a lot higher now and the role of the development squad is completely different too.

 

[Mugwump]

The point is that they broke into a championship team. Standards are a lot higher now and the role of the development squad is completely different too.

We havent been a Premier league club for a lot of the time between Murray, Lescott etc until now. Plenty of opportunity for us to find some top talent.

I think the academy is doing ok, but there has to be a point where we at least develop premier league squad players.

 

[Wombourne Wolf]

The probability of developing a top, first-team-ready player is pretty low, so the club has to show parents that even if their son doesn't make it, they are still doing everything they can to give them a career somewhere in football, especially since the better the first team is, the lower that probability becomes.

I think the academy is doing ok. Kilman, Bueno and Hodge may not be locals, but they've graduated to first team duty and two of them are established first teamers.

One of the better regarded academies, Manchester City, also has very few Mancs thriving, but is funding itself and providing opportunities in football for young people. That's the primary objective, as it should be.

Also, IIRC we signed Lee Mills for £250k from Stockbridge Steel.

I think it was £20k from memory - made a decent profit on him when he moved to Vale or Derby? remember him helping Bradford to promotion a year or two later.

 

[AndyWolves]

I dont see any players who we have out on loan in the championship that will be much more than championship players. The facts are undeniable at the end of the day, those 4 i mentioned havent as yet been exceeded in a Wolves shirt.

We sold MGW for c.£25m who is now playing PL football. That's a success

 

[SuperGran]

We havent been a Premier league club for a lot of the time between Murray, Lescott etc until now. Plenty of opportunity for us to find some top talent.

I think the academy is doing ok, but there has to be a point where we at least develop premier league squad players.

We’ve only taken the academy seriously since fosun took over tbh

 

[JonahWolf]

This. Academies generate income. Farm many kids to sell one expensive one.

The probability of finding the next elite striker is mind numbingly small

Quite. Different world. Have to look at it from the perspective of: This lad coming through is great….is he, or is he going to be, one of the top 50 strikers in the world? If not then not good enough.
Worldwide scouting networks, mid-table premier league clubs with better wages on offer than all but the European giants, the richest, most watched and competitive league in the world as draws for players.
Any player that makes it through the academy to play even sporadically in the premier league is a massive achievement, purely because the competition for that spot is pretty much global.
If you’re then going to narrow it down to starting, and striker, then yeah it’s hardly surprising it feels like a one in 10 million like Kane.

 

[Berlin Wolf]

Interesting question/thread and I look forward to some replies from fellow Mixers.

This difficult to answer question posed by Houston Lobo would be a good one to ask at the next Ask Wolves session.

Having said that, 18 year old striker Josh Esen is scoring goals for the 18s side, trains with the 21s, and offered a contract extension to 2026.

Which suggests the Academy are always trying to address this difficult position, to find the next John Richards for Wolves. Not easy!

 

[yateleywolf]

We’ve only taken the academy seriously since fosun took over tbh

But they ploughed in around £5 mill a year to keep it at Cat 1 status for years even when we were not spending .

 

[Ponty]

Strikers are the most important players in a team. Just look how we’ve struggled without Raul, Leicester’s decline mirrors that of Vardy and Kane’s goals keep Spurs challenging for CL. Clubs know that so are happy to pay a premium and cast their net widely. I suspect the percentage of overseas forwards is higher than any other position so the competition is incredibly tough and makes it harder than ever for young English strikers to break through at nearly every club, not just Wolves.

 

[sc91]

The academy is a pathway to either help produce players for the first team or help provide funds for the first team from the development of in house players. I'd say since Fosun have taken over, it has been a success. Bueno and to an extent Kilman form part of the first team squad, Lembikisa looks to be next in line. Whilst the likes of Giles and Sanderson will bring in a couple million to help develop the first team and more obviously MGW generated a huge fee.

That's a success.

 

[sc91]

Because our scouting system is crap

I know you love a good chat of waffle but under Fosun, the Wolves scouting network has been pretty good and we are showing a duty of care with our players by making sure we will do what is best for them to develop.

 

[sc91]

I dont see any players who we have out on loan in the championship that will be much more than championship players. The facts are undeniable at the end of the day, those 4 i mentioned havent as yet been exceeded in a Wolves shirt.

Exactly. That Harry Kane who went on loan to several Championship clubs has never amounted to anything.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

I think the problem with trying to develop a striker is that unless they have an immediate impact in terms of goals how long a run do you give them in the team to develop? this is the case even if you send them out on loan. Whereas a midfielder/defender might be given an extended run in the side no team is going to give a young striker 20/30 games in a row if they don't score any goals. Us as fans don't help as there are a large portion of the fanbase who are willing to write a young striker off as useless after one season if they haven't scored 10-15 goals. We would never do that with a midfielder or defender.

 

[Flump]

What even is the list of strikers developed by English clubs recently?

Going as far back as Kane, is it just Rashford and DCL?

 

[ombyman]

I was told once that a lot of kids who play as strikers or upfront for their small pond teams do it as they are the best player. When they go to their big pond team, that team already have a striker and the player is converted to another position. This can be at a young age. An example being they play striker for Walsall u14 but twice a week train with villa u14 as a right back.
This suggests two things, 1. most youth team strikers are just in that position as it's easy for them and 2. Most youth team strikers are converted.

The trick will be to identify who is a 'natural striker' and to then not convert them to other positions.

Another issue is that the new role of a forward (post Drogba) is for a superman who can do everything. Guys like Defoe and Bent are the last of the strikers. The new player has to be able to occupy a back 2 or 3, hold up the ball and run the width of the pitch.

(Who was the lad who started up front for us in a pre season friendly against Swansea at home several years ago? I thought he looked decent in that game but obviously didnt kick on)

 

[sc91]

What even is the list of strikers developed by English clubs recently?

Going as far back as Kane, is it just Rashford and DCL?

Depends at what level you want to go, and what you'd consider a success.

E.g. you have Nketiah at Arsenal, or if we are talking players likely to be first team for a Premier League club next season, then Cameron Archer for Villa.

 

[hollo]

This difficult to answer question posed by Houston Lobo would be a good one to ask at the next Ask Wolves session.

Having said that, 18 year old striker Josh Esen is scoring goals for the 18s side, trains with the 21s, and offered a contract extension to 2026.

Which suggests the Academy are always trying to address this difficult position, to find the next John Richards for Wolves. Not easy!

We are behind villa again in everything after having an advantage for three years. Their stadium size is going to be increased, their academy recruitment is better, they now own one of the better portugese clubs.

Fosun spent money they weren't going to spend in order to protect their investment and keep us up. Scott sellars and Bruno Lage were appointments on the cheap and made us infinitely worse.

It would have been far cheaper to buy the best recruitment teams in 2020 and not waste 200 million on players whose values have decreased by half. Scout your mitomas and gnontos. I mean gnonto was playing in switzerland so what the hell were grasshoppers doing missing this talent.

On the other hand man city and brighton have just poached two our academy scouts so there may be a couple of precocious 16 year olds we don't know about already in our set up.

 

[sc91]

We are behind villa again in everything after having an advantage for three years. Their stadium size is going to be increased, their academy recruitment is better, they now own one of the better portugese clubs.

Fosun spent money they weren't going to spend in order to protect their investment and keep us up. Scott sellars and Bruno Lage were appointments on the cheap and made us infinitely worse.

It would have been far cheaper to buy the best recruitment teams in 2020 and not waste 200 million on players whose values have decreased by half. Scout your mitomas and gnontos. I mean gnonto was playing in switzerland so what the hell were grasshoppers doing missing this talent.

On the other hand man city and brighton have just poached two our academy scouts so there may be a couple of precocious 16 year olds we don't know about already in our set up.

Oh shut up.

Sorry to be condescending but you bring out two hits but skim over Wolves recent hits? Baffling.

 

[Corporate Wolf]

Current stats for Premier League clubs are that 3 in 10 are offered professional contracts.

For anyone that has not watched it (and I would recommend it), the recent documentary of the Crystal Palace academy system highlighted that is also a "numbers game". For example it they are short on strikers, then they make that a focus area in trying to get a player through to the U-23s on a professional contract.

This does not mean of course that a "golden prospect" is released at the expense of the numbers game; but the reality is that these "gems" are few and far between.

I think we would all love to see one of those "gems" come through in the next 2 years; seems we've been waiting for a long time now !

 

[WISAW]

Oddly had this same convo with a friend on our way back from football last night.

We can't seem to develop or even find/buy one via our scouts either!