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Vinny Clarke OUT

Hpoolfella

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Looks like Vinny & The Club have made another own goal when it comes to the Club Shop - THey have announced that on match days the shop will close 4 hrs before the game starts and if the kick off is 3pm then it doesnt open at all. How much lost revenue is this going to cost the club. Imagine a father taking his children to their 1st game, the kids would want to go into the club shop and get something - evenm long distances fans would be the same. Well Done Vinny, think its time to take that shoe out your mouth
 

wayne-the-wanderer

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Looks like Vinny & The Club have made another own goal when it comes to the Club Shop - THey have announced that on match days the shop will close 4 hrs before the game starts and if the kick off is 3pm then it doesnt open at all. How much lost revenue is this going to cost the club. Imagine a father taking his children to their 1st game, the kids would want to go into the club shop and get something - evenm long distances fans would be the same. Well Done Vinny, think its time to take that shoe out your mouth
It was old info - been updated this morning, club shop will be open on match days including the celta vigo match
 

Brockmoorwolf

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South bank £340 when Fosun came in, up to £514 for 19/20.

I agree the working class hero Vinny is pushing it even more now, but Jeffs pulling the strings. He basically employed Clark with a job of squeezing every penny he can.
Yeah I can vouch for that £340 in the south bonk worked out around £14.70 per game
 

thisisgil

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So without any owner investment we basically have no money unless we sell? we are a player trading platform now.
If you break it down to the nuts and bolts though, Chelsea are also a player trading platform. A player trading platform with a Champions League trophy.
 

Bill S Preston Esq.

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Sounds excellent so any young players that gets any good gets sold to just reinvest in more young players to rinse and repeat whilst treading water.
Am I the only one to whom this was obvious from day one? Surely not?

What exactly is the issue with this strategy? On average we're finishing 20-25 positions further up the pyramid. I'm fine with that.
 

Bill S Preston Esq.

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Seemingly all the non-playing personnel with any charisma and air of dynamism about them that were at the club three years ago (e.g. Laurie, Thelwell, Nuno) have all left. The non-playing personnel at the recent Ask Wolves video sessions along with Jeff Shi all displayed the charisma of dead fish and had an aura of tired, downtrodden middle-aged middle management 'yes man' about them.

I don't know precisely why Jeff Shi, who is clearly both very intelligent and very ruthless, wants to surround himself with robotic drones exuding all the personality of a dialtone, but he does. My working assumption is that he wants absolute control and feels he requires non-critical apparatchiks who will implement his diktats without demur. I don't think it's a smart or clever managerial approach, but that's what I see is going on. It worries me.
You see this thread title? There used to be one with Thelwell's name before it. Thelwell was derided before Fosun and their money rocked up.
 

John de Wolf's hairdryer

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You see this thread title? There used to be one with Thelwell's name before it. Thelwell was derided before Fosun and their money rocked up.
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Are you saying because Thelwell and Clark have both been vilified by the fans here at some stage they're equivalent in business acumen? I don't foresee Vinny Clark ever being head-hunted by a business like the New York Red Bulls!
 

Oliwolf44

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Am I the only one to whom this was obvious from day one? Surely not?

What exactly is the issue with this strategy? On average we're finishing 20-25 positions further up the pyramid. I'm fine with that.
I said to one of my non-Wolves supporting mates when they took over, its going to be a fun ride but one i might not be on for a long time. Will become perennial europe qualifiers finishing around top 10 each season and then move to out of town stadium with a hotel and get tourists in from China and broadcast games to the huge audience over there. Will probably price out locals after all they are here to make money.

Think the comments about biggest team in world/UK has clouded judgement as you thought maybe they will go for even more but i think original premonition will turn out to be true.

One of the early press releases was that Fosun saw the only thing profitable in football is the selling on of players for value. And as an investment company this is all they are interested in. Buy low, sell high, rinse and repeat. With the help of Mendes they have a resource to tap into which then with the sole fact of these players being exposed to premier league football their value will skyrocket.

Think where we are now/Southampton comparison of finishing comfortably midtable each year and so protecting the value of the asset plus then the huge financial gain from selling players is where they want to be.

In my opinion they may have shown their hand too early (huge increase to tourist level pricing) before being on a solid base (could finish anywhere from 6th-20th this season IMO) and showing thats its all about the cash before there is SIGNIFICANT demand from daytrippers and tourists. Thought this would come in maybe 2 years down the line. Maybe the pandemic has forced their hand and proved they dont need supporters at the ground. But maybe the mask has slipped and a lot of people now realising what the name of the game is.

After all if i was an investor looking at marketing strategy etc.
Wolves - iconic name & badge, very recognisable only team known by their nickname.
Team Colours - Again instantly recognisable, only team that play in gold. Gold being the colour most representative of Success, wealth and winning.
Available to purchase on the cheap with Morgan wanting out, historic club below its potential value with a large fanbase and infrastructure for where it was at the time.
Close to new HS2 rail links, close to a major hub in Birmingham/West Midlands conurbation. Good rail links, airport etc.
Links to gestifute means a link to players not available to other clubs. Making ascension through the championship only a matter of time with calibre of players on offer.

The short of it all is we were clearly an investors dream at the time and now they are running it like an investment company. When you take the loyalty and fan hat off clear to see the direction we are going. Just that football is blinding because we see it through different eyes to others.
 

John de Wolf's hairdryer

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I said to one of my non-Wolves supporting mates when they took over, its going to be a fun ride but one i might not be on for a long time. Will become perennial europe qualifiers finishing around top 10 each season and then move to out of town stadium with a hotel and get tourists in from China and broadcast games to the huge audience over there. Will probably price out locals after all they are here to make money.

Think the comments about biggest team in world/UK has clouded judgement as you thought maybe they will go for even more but i think original premonition will turn out to be true.

One of the early press releases was that Fosun saw the only thing profitable in football is the selling on of players for value. And as an investment company this is all they are interested in. Buy low, sell high, rinse and repeat. With the help of Mendes they have a resource to tap into which then with the sole fact of these players being exposed to premier league football their value will skyrocket.

Think where we are now/Southampton comparison of finishing comfortably midtable each year and so protecting the value of the asset plus then the huge financial gain from selling players is where they want to be.

In my opinion they may have shown their hand too early (huge increase to tourist level pricing) before being on a solid base (could finish anywhere from 6th-20th this season IMO) and showing thats its all about the cash before there is SIGNIFICANT demand from daytrippers and tourists. Thought this would come in maybe 2 years down the line. Maybe the pandemic has forced their hand and proved they dont need supporters at the ground. But maybe the mask has slipped and a lot of people now realising what the name of the game is.

After all if i was an investor looking at marketing strategy etc.
Wolves - iconic name & badge, very recognisable only team known by their nickname.
Team Colours - Again instantly recognisable, only team that play in gold. Gold being the colour most representative of Success, wealth and winning.
Available to purchase on the cheap with Morgan wanting out, historic club below its potential value with a large fanbase and infrastructure for where it was at the time.
Close to new HS2 rail links, close to a major hub in Birmingham/West Midlands conurbation. Good rail links, airport etc.
Links to gestifute means a link to players not available to other clubs. Making ascension through the championship only a matter of time with calibre of players on offer.

The short of it all is we were clearly an investors dream at the time and now they are running it like an investment company. When you take the loyalty and fan hat off clear to see the direction we are going. Just that football is blinding because we see it through different eyes to others.
Tend to agree with you, however there's one bit that doesn't quite make sense for me about Fosun's approach. Had they been a little bit more aggressive in their investment in the summer of 2019 and got the missing playing pieces (the ones that we're still currently missing!), I'm sure we would have gatecrashed the Top 4 in 2019-20. Christ, we were only a smidgin away when Mike Dean ****ed us over at the Burnley game in injury time at the end of the 2019-20 season as it was! Top 4 in 2019-20 would have really turbocharged Fosun's investment.

As you say, it looks now like they're aiming to make us Southampton (whilst risking it all unraveling badly through relegation if - and it's plainly possible - they miscalculate), but a bit more pressure on the gas pedal in 2019 could've moved us up to be on a par with Leicester already.

Why that investment wasn't there in 2019 (or since) will be argued about for years to come, but I still personally think it has something to do with a change in political direction by the Chinese Communist Party since the time we were purchased by Fosun in 2016 making it difficult if not impossible for Chinese businesses to inject capital into investment opportunities in the UK that no longer meet with Chinese Government approval. Fosun stopped putting their own money into Wolves in 2019 and there is zero sign of it returning.
 

Oliwolf44

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Tend to agree with you, however there's one bit that doesn't quite make sense for me about Fosun's approach. Had they been a little bit more aggressive in their investment in the summer of 2019 and got the missing playing pieces (the ones that we're still currently missing!), I'm sure we would have gatecrashed the Top 4 in 2019-20. Christ, we were only a smidgin away when Mike Dean ****ed us over at the Burnley game in injury time at the end of the 2019-20 season as it was! Top 4 in 2019-20 would have really turbocharged Fosun's investment.

As you say, it looks now like they're aiming to make us Southampton (whilst risking it all unraveling badly through relegation if - and it's plainly possible - they miscalculate), but a bit more pressure on the gas pedal in 2019 could've moved us up to be on a par with Leicester already.

Why that investment wasn't there in 2019 (or since) will be argued about for years to come, but I still personally think it has something to do with a change in political direction by the Chinese Communist Party since the time we were purchased by Fosun in 2016 making it difficult if not impossible for Chinese businesses to inject capital into investment opportunities in the UK that no longer meet with Chinese Government approval. Fosun stopped putting their own money into Wolves in 2019 and there is zero sign of it returning.
Southampton a comparison as also owned by Chinese investment company. However i think i disagree with you on the Chinese govnt factor. I think its more that top 4 would raise expectation levels to an unsustainable amount. I think Fosun realised to consistently make top 4 would go against their whole business model as you cant buy cheap and sell high whilst maintaining a top 4 finish. Especially when there are (at least) 6 much bigger clubs with bigger revenues also challenging for those spots. To finish top 4 you have to be spending big or extremely smartly/lucky. Therefore finishing 10th while turning over squad and selling best players is exactly what they want and also more importantly achievable.

Maybe the truth is what fans dont want to hear - For a city the size of Wolverhampton, for a club thats been in prem for only a few years in last 40, with a fanbase smaller than the top clubs, with a revenue stream way below other clubs, smaller stadium. The owners say we want to compete with top 6 - maybe, due to factors listed above, we probably shouldnt be.
 

John de Wolf's hairdryer

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Southampton a comparison as also owned by Chinese investment company. However i think i disagree with you on the Chinese govnt factor. I think its more that top 4 would raise expectation levels to an unsustainable amount. I think Fosun realised to consistently make top 4 would go against their whole business model as you cant buy cheap and sell high whilst maintaining a top 4 finish. Especially when there are (at least) 6 much bigger clubs with bigger revenues also challenging for those spots. To finish top 4 you have to be spending big or extremely smartly/lucky. Therefore finishing 10th while turning over squad and selling best players is exactly what they want and also more importantly achievable.

Maybe the truth is what fans dont want to hear - For a city the size of Wolverhampton, for a club thats been in prem for only a few years in last 40, with a fanbase smaller than the top clubs, with a revenue stream way below other clubs, smaller stadium. The owners say we want to compete with top 6 - maybe, due to factors listed above, we probably shouldnt be.
Your hypothesis is an interesting one, but I would say this: if Leicester can break into the Top 4 (and they are very clearly knocking on the door), why not Wolves?

The biggest difference between Leicester and Wolves right now is one of will on the part of the owners. But then Leicester is owned by a Thai, and there's no big deterioration of relations between the UK and Thai governments in the last 5 years as there has been between the UK and China.

And UK relations with China are only getting worse: the Government here is now intending to block any further Chinese involvement in the UK's strategic nuclear power industry (quite rightly IMV) and in the next few days a Royal Navy aircraft carrier is going to be steaming onto the South China Sea, ****ing President Xi off big style (unnecessarily provocative and a bit stupid IMV).
 

VancouverWolf

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The bloke from Canada will be along soon telling us what a bargain the prices are.
There are at least 5 of us on here from Canada…..it wouldn’t be cool for us to discuss ticket prices, now would it?
 

Oliwolf44

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Your hypothesis is an interesting one, but I would say this: if Leicester can break into the Top 4 (and they are very clearly knocking on the door), why not Wolves?

The biggest difference between Leicester and Wolves right now is one of will on the part of the owners. But then Leicester is owned by a Thai, and there's no big deterioration of relations between the UK and Thai governments in the last 5 years as there has been between the UK and China.

And UK relations with China are only getting worse: the Government here is now intending to block any further Chinese involvement in the UK's strategic nuclear power industry (quite rightly IMV) and in the next few days a Royal Navy aircraft carrier is going to be steaming onto the South China Sea, ****ing President Xi off big style (unnecessarily provocative and a bit stupid IMV).
I agree Leicester and Wolves similar size clubs/fanbase/stadium etc with recent prem title distorting the situation a little.

I do see a difference in recruitment model though. I believe Leicester sign players with an eye on how they fit into team profile and how they can help the team more as opposed to wolves sign players with an eye on how much they will be valued in the future.

For example Soyuncu was signed in preparation for Maguire leaving knowing that the spot was there for him, same with mendy/tielemans replacing Kante. Patson Daka their new striker is fast and plays off the shoulder of the defender, sound familiar traits to their current striker who will be retiring in a year or two?
While they will be looking at how they contribute, I believe Wolves more have an eye on resale value when we sell which is why we have seen an influx of attacking players and wingers. Attacking players are worth so much if they hit the big time whereas the margins on defenders are less so. Why do you think we havent seen any investment on new CB or defensive midfield players for two years?
So tying back in to previous point in Leicesters model there is continuity and more of a focus on team performance as opposed to value. Which in Wolves case you cant do year after year in the top 4. Doing this finishing midtable is a lot more cost effective.

On the Chinese govnt thing i agree tensions are high and getting worse but would stop short of saying Fosun been told to withdraw investment etc. What argument I will buy is that this creates uncertainty, and you ask any investor what they dont want and its uncertainty. And so maybe Fosun looking at this, plus the added uncertainty of the pandemic.

I think what is likely is that its probably a combination of all of these factors as to why we are happy where we are and reluctant to invest.

P.S Brendan Rogers is a fantastic manager and knows exactly how to sustain this Leicester team. Think he comes across as dislikable to some people which clouds their judgement that hes a brilliant manager. (If i was Tottenham i would of gone all in for Brendy and not Nuno!)
 
D

Deleted member 8455jwf

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Tend to agree with you, however there's one bit that doesn't quite make sense for me about Fosun's approach. Had they been a little bit more aggressive in their investment in the summer of 2019 and got the missing playing pieces (the ones that we're still currently missing!), I'm sure we would have gatecrashed the Top 4 in 2019-20. Christ, we were only a smidgin away when Mike Dean ****ed us over at the Burnley game in injury time at the end of the 2019-20 season as it was! Top 4 in 2019-20 would have really turbocharged Fosun's investment.

As you say, it looks now like they're aiming to make us Southampton (whilst risking it all unraveling badly through relegation if - and it's plainly possible - they miscalculate), but a bit more pressure on the gas pedal in 2019 could've moved us up to be on a par with Leicester already.

Why that investment wasn't there in 2019 (or since) will be argued about for years to come, but I still personally think it has something to do with a change in political direction by the Chinese Communist Party since the time we were purchased by Fosun in 2016 making it difficult if not impossible for Chinese businesses to inject capital into investment opportunities in the UK that no longer meet with Chinese Government approval. Fosun stopped putting their own money into Wolves in 2019 and there is zero sign of it returning.
We finished 7 points off top 4 in the end, think you are overstating just how close we were. Leicester still haven't even made top 4 since winning it.
 

MasWolf

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Southampton a comparison as also owned by Chinese investment company. However i think i disagree with you on the Chinese govnt factor. I think its more that top 4 would raise expectation levels to an unsustainable amount. I think Fosun realised to consistently make top 4 would go against their whole business model as you cant buy cheap and sell high whilst maintaining a top 4 finish. Especially when there are (at least) 6 much bigger clubs with bigger revenues also challenging for those spots. To finish top 4 you have to be spending big or extremely smartly/lucky. Therefore finishing 10th while turning over squad and selling best players is exactly what they want and also more importantly achievable.

Maybe the truth is what fans dont want to hear - For a city the size of Wolverhampton, for a club thats been in prem for only a few years in last 40, with a fanbase smaller than the top clubs, with a revenue stream way below other clubs, smaller stadium. The owners say we want to compete with top 6 - maybe, due to factors listed above, we probably shouldnt be.
I've mentioned this many times on this forum, but Leicester have completely debunked this. Surely that is what we should be aiming for.
 

Oliwolf44

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I've mentioned this many times on this forum, but Leicester have completely debunked this. Surely that is what we should be aiming for.
Think debunked is too strong a term, they are still only challenging. And also maybe the exception that proves the rule?

After all if you discount Leicesters miracle season in 2016, only 6 clubs have finished in the top 4 since 2005. Im sure i dont need to list those 6 clubs for you.

Make no mistake breaking the big boys club is extremely difficult for an outsider which is why its only happened once in 15 seasons!!!
English football is not this competitive free-for-all that the marketing has you believe.

The bundesliga gets bashed for being anti competitive and while Munich have cannibalised it in recent times behind that no1 spot its way more competitive than the premier league with different clubs qualifying for Europe and therefore the wealth is spread out and places arent ringfenced.

The ESL would have just been cementing what is probably already in place anyway.
 

MasWolf

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Think debunked is too strong a term, they are still only challenging. And also maybe the exception that proves the rule?

After all if you discount Leicesters miracle season in 2016, only 6 clubs have finished in the top 4 since 2005. Im sure i dont need to list those 6 clubs for you.

Make no mistake breaking the big boys club is extremely difficult for an outsider which is why its only happened once in 15 seasons!!!
English football is not this competitive free-for-all that the marketing has you believe.

The bundesliga gets bashed for being anti competitive and while Munich have cannibalised it in recent times behind that no1 spot its way more competitive than the premier league with different clubs qualifying for Europe and therefore the wealth is spread out and places arent ringfenced.

The ESL would have just been cementing what is probably already in place anyway.
My comment was really to your latter point that perhaps we shouldn't be competing for Top 6 with our fanbase and stadium size. Leicester have a similar sized fanbase, stadium and like us are a one club city.

Since they were promoted the most recent time (7 seasons) they've finished in the top 6 on 3 occasions (1 PL win, and two consecutive 5th placed finishes). Aside from the PL win, there is no reason why we can't replicate what they seem to be doing.
 
D

Deleted member 9202LYK

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We finished 7 points off top 4 in the end, think you are overstating just how close we were. Leicester still haven't even made top 4 since winning it.
Yeah, but that's not really the point is it. (this board drives me mad the way people never discuss the principle, instead just pick fault with relatively minor elements of the argument, spelling and grammar and auto-corrects).

What he's saying is that at the point Fosun could stick or twist. It seems they chose to stick on 17, and with it went our biggest chance of a Jackpot in 40 years...
 

Oliwolf44

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My comment was really to your latter point that perhaps we shouldn't be competing for Top 6 with our fanbase and stadium size. Leicester have a similar sized fanbase, stadium and like us are a one club city.

Since they were promoted the most recent time (7 seasons) they've finished in the top 6 on 3 occasions (1 PL win, and two consecutive 5th placed finishes). Aside from the PL win, there is no reason why we can't replicate what they seem to be doing.
we probably could do, but it would take sustained investment and time. I just think Fosun have realised that being self sufficient, for where we are as a club means finishing midtable with lower levels of investment. After all i believe their aim is maximising profits not finishing as high as they can. They have probably found most cost effective position for us.

Chelsea and Man City lose fortunes to stay where they are, to an investment company like Fosun that isnt what they are after.
 
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Deleted member yltz11841

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we probably could do, but it would take sustained investment and time. I just think Fosun have realised that being self sufficient, for where we are as a club means finishing midtable with lower levels of investment. After all i believe their aim is maximising profits not finishing as high as they can. They have probably found most cost effective position for us.

Chelsea and Man City lose fortunes to stay where they are, to an investment company like Fosun that isnt what they are after.
14th to 8th is the sweet spot just tick over with a little bit of investment and watch the returns grow.
Perhaps when the **** "deliberately finished" 8th it was a business decision o_O
 

SteveBullsKnee

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Seemingly all the non-playing personnel with any charisma and air of dynamism about them that were at the club three years ago (e.g. Laurie, Thelwell, Nuno) have all left. The non-playing personnel at the recent Ask Wolves video sessions along with Jeff Shi all displayed the charisma of dead fish and had an aura of tired, downtrodden middle-aged middle management 'yes man' about them.

I don't know precisely why Jeff Shi, who is clearly both very intelligent and very ruthless, wants to surround himself with robotic drones exuding all the personality of a dialtone, but he does. My working assumption is that he wants absolute control and feels he requires non-critical apparatchiks who will implement his diktats without demur. I don't think it's a smart or clever managerial approach, but that's what I see is going on. It worries me.
I'll spoil this for you. Yer mate Laurie was detested by his fellow colleagues who couldn't wait for him to go.
 
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Deleted member yltz11841

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Apart from the other 30 similar size clubs who have also failed.
We're pretty high up on that list in where we are.
I enjoy the journey rather than where we are or have been and I genuinely feel that way.

I don't want us to turn into a club like the **** when you had discussions on radio of "what is the point of west Brom" other than just make money for the owners.

I loved league 1 it was a good journey and the aim was to win the league, bit of a cheat as the budget and players we had made it a little unfair but there was an aim.

When Nuno took over FOSUN backed him we had clear aims to get promoted (achieved), attacked the premier league in the first season with backing getting in some excellent business finishing 7th and qualifying for Europa.

I feel the thrill is in the chase and if the chase is over and its just now settle down to make up the numbers it will lose its point as you cant dream of what could happen, you instead fear what might.
 

WeAreTheWolvesII

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Vinny admitting to yet another mistake today!!
 

AndyWolves

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Vinny admitting to yet another mistake today!!
Eh? Implementing something new to fix an issue is hardly a mistake
 

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WeAreTheWolvesII

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Eh? Implementing something new to fix an issue is hardly a mistake
“I acknowledge that our service levels have been below the required standard for some time and apologise sincerely to those who have been unable to contact us, cut off or left frustrated at the lack of progress in their enquiry.”

An apology for not delivering how he’s supposed to.

Fair play in that sense, and it’s good that he’s addressing the issue but it was so amateur how people couldn’t get in touch with the club over the summer and that was ultimately on him, which he acknowledges, to go with the other poor things he’s done.
 

Hoganstolemywife

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“I acknowledge that our service levels have been below the required standard for some time and apologise sincerely to those who have been unable to contact us, cut off or left frustrated at the lack of progress in their enquiry.”

An apology for not delivering how he’s supposed to.

Fair play in that sense, and it’s good that he’s addressing the issue but it was so amateur how people couldn’t get in touch with the club over the summer and that was ultimately on him, which he acknowledges, to go with the other poor things he’s done.
To be fair to Vinny, customer service at Wolves has been terrible LONG before his tenure. I remember complaining it long and hard when I last had a season ticket and that was under Twaddle!
 

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“I acknowledge that our service levels have been below the required standard for some time and apologise sincerely to those who have been unable to contact us, cut off or left frustrated at the lack of progress in their enquiry.”

An apology for not delivering how he’s supposed to.

Fair play in that sense, and it’s good that he’s addressing the issue but it was so amateur how people couldn’t get in touch with the club over the summer and that was ultimately on him, which he acknowledges, to go with the other poor things he’s done.
The reasons are clearly and repeatedly explained in the piece. It’s far more open and honest than I would have expected to read. Very welcome.
 
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