Villa , Newcastle , West Ham and Wolves - its getting tougher.

[wwbug]

It's going to get much tougher to to become a top 8 club than it was when we arrived in the Premier League four years ago.

TV rights plus the desire by foreign entities to buy "Premium Heritage Clubs " looks like producing much more of a closed shop.
After almost 30 years of the Premier League it looks like the big beast of English Football are falling in line to fill up more spaces in The Premier League.
There will always be the Brentfords and Swindons but far less than in the last 30 years, but I get the feeling in another ten years there will be a dozen or more clubs like Everton , a fixed top league side. Almost like a British Super League we all fought against
We are a "Heritage Club" in this field and Fosun should easily meet the challenge if they show commitment . But they will have to raise their game.
I would expect Sheffield United , Derby and Nottingham Forest to be bought by big investors in the next ten years. Just as Wolves, Newcastle and Man City were picked .

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Don’t see fosun competing with Newcastle and west ham, assuming Newcastle stay up of course

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

You don’t need to spend more you just need to spend better.

Something we have struggled with the last couple of years

 

[Puddled Duck]

Look what happened to Sunderland.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

You don’t have to spend big to win big look at Liverpool net spent compared to Man City over 5 years

 

[wwbug]

You don’t need to spend more you just need to spend better.

Something we have struggled with the last couple of years

Agreed, but its both, I did say Fosun needed to up their game.
But more money should involve better management. These guys aren't like The Haywards , this is big business not big hobbies.

 

[wwbug]

You don’t have to spend big to win big look at Liverpool net spent compared to Man City over 5 years

Agreed , but you do need both wealth , and great management to be a top 8 team.

Liverpool have spent big, it was just recycling of wealth in the squad. Fosun want to copy this, recyling and growing value. But Morgan had neither the wealth nor the management to do this, IMO
.
Both Newcastle and Wolves had very little value to recycle , their playing squad was of little value on purchase.

Man Utd have the wealth ( in the squad) but not the management.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I think it's a fair point, but it's about how many clubs are billionaire's play things. Man City, Chelsea, Leicester, now Newcastle, not just wealth, but the willingness to spend beyond their income.

 

[Puddled Duck]

I think it's a fair point, but it's about how many clubs are billionaire's play things. Man City, Chelsea, Leicester, now Newcastle, not just wealth, but the willingness to spend beyond their income.

The problem is these things don't last and there can only be so many 'big clubs', Newcastle have essentially tried this before, same with say Leeds and look what happened to Sunderland, Blackburn are another one, look at clubs like Derby and Bolton etc. OK some of these clubs aren't exactly Billionaires playthings but serious money has been spent and these clubs in some respects have crashed and burned.

 

[wwbug]

The problem is these things don't last and there can only be so many 'big clubs', Newcastle have essentially tried this before, same with say Leeds and look what happened to Sunderland, Blackburn are another one, look at clubs like Derby and Bolton etc. OK some of these clubs aren't exactly Billionaires playthings but serious money has been spent and these clubs in some respects have crashed and burned.

Its a very different place. We have moved from local millionaires , carrying out their local dream to Worldwide Billionaires looking for Worldwide kudos, with top international executives. Look at us rammed full of internationals players , players coming from Champions League teams ..

 

[wwbug]

Its a very different place. We have moved from local millionaires , carrying out their dream to Worldwide Billionaires looking for Worldwide kudos, with top international executives.

Like Jez !

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Like Jez !

probably a millionaire with what he made out of Wolves!

 

[George AlooGobi]

probably a millionaire with what he made out of Wolves!

Several times over

 

[Flump]

It's going to get much tougher to to become a top 8 club than it was when we arrived in the Premier League four years ago.

How things are now always feels like it will be a fairly permanent state. I had a look a BBC Sport season preview from the year before we arrived back in the PL to see how much has changed.

Strange summer for Liverpool and manager Jurgen Klopp - and at this stage it is a slight leap of faith to back him to deliver another top-four finish

Sead Kolasinac will add muscle at left-back while the highly regarded Alexandre Lacazette has arrived from Lyon with many suggesting he is a guarantee of goals.

Everton are a club on the move under manager Ronald Koeman and major shareholder Farhad Moshiri. Their summer transfer business has been highly impressive, with signings for the future in goalkeeper Jordan Pickford, England defender Michael Keane and exciting Spain Under-21 striker Sandro Ramirez, with former Ajax captain Davy Klaassen expected to provide goals from midfield.

Clubs will continue to rise and fall all the time - I'd bet on Moyes being gone and West Ham struggling within 18 months from now for example.

 

[Stafford]

It's the same, as FFP rules are still the same since we got promoted.

We're 3 years ahead of Newcastle.

1 year ahead of Villa.


West Ham have been trying to bridge the gap for years...

It's about how smartly you spend it.

Every club has a billionaire owner.

 

[Contrarian]

You don’t need to spend more you just need to spend better.

Something we have struggled with the last couple of years

So true. At least we've spent better than Villa and Newcastle. But not as well as West Ham, hence our current positions,

 

[Stafford]

So true. At least we've spent better than Villa and Newcastle. But not as well as West Ham, hence our current positions,

How many hundreds of mill have West Ham wasted before that? The moment they stopped/ gave up and hired an old school manager signed less megastars they stumbled on success.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Its a very different place. We have moved from local millionaires , carrying out their local dream to Worldwide Billionaires looking for Worldwide kudos, with top international executives. Look at us rammed full of internationals players , players coming from Champions League teams ..

Seeing this and slightly OT but I watched the Macclesfield FC documentary on BBC over the weekend. The new club rebuilt by a local millionaire from the ashes of Macclesfield Town; a good watch and nice to see a local club revived.

 

[Flump]

The moment they stopped/ gave up and hired an old school manager signed less megastars they stumbled on success.

Old School Moyes has progressed them after they previously had Fancy-New-Fangled Moyes and Fancy-New-Fangled Allardyce in charge?

 

[Wolf in Kenilworth]

Newcastle need to stay up first…

 

[Contrarian]

How many hundreds of mill have West Ham wasted before that? The moment they stopped/ gave up and hired an old school manager signed less megastars they stumbled on success.

Yep, fair bit of luck involved. Nobody really knows how new signings will turn out. So many big money flops and brilliant cheap signings over the years. I think with West Ham, it's not exactly a "home grown on the cheap" squad. Several big money signings in there.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

How many hundreds of mill have West Ham wasted before that? The moment they stopped/ gave up and hired an old school manager signed less megastars they stumbled on success.

West Ham are also being brought by a Czech billionaire, doesn't seem to be crazy wealthy - he also owns Sparta Prague

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Yep, fair bit of luck involved. Nobody really knows how new signings will turn out. So many big money flops and brilliant cheap signings over the years. I think with West Ham, it's not exactly a "home grown on the cheap" squad. Several big money signings in there.

Yeah, their net spend since we got promoted is a decent bit larger than ours because they make a lot more money. Their revenue is usually about 15% more than ours, it was even higher when we got into the Europa League and they didn't.

 

[wwbug]

How things are now always feels like it will be a fairly permanent state. I had a look a BBC Sport season preview from the year before we arrived back in the PL to see how much has changed.







Clubs will continue to rise and fall all the time - I'd bet on Moyes being gone and West Ham struggling within 18 months from now for example.

I was thinking that also about West Ham .

 

[Contrarian]

Yeah, their net spend since we got promoted is a decent bit larger than ours because they make a lot more money. Their revenue is usually about 15% more than ours, it was even higher when we got into the Europa League and we didn't.

Overall, in the long term, despite short term blips, isn't it a fact of football life that league position correlates with expenditure?

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Overall, in the long term, despite short term blips, isn't it a fact of football life that league position correlates with expenditure?

Yep long term trend, it is expenditure on wages i believe stronger correlation than transfer fees

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Yeah, their net spend since we got promoted is a decent bit larger than ours because they make a lot more money. Their revenue is usually about 15% more than ours, it was even higher when we got into the Europa League and they didn't.

This, yes they've made some good signings, but really their success is based around being donated a 60k stadium.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Thing is (Same as for ourselves) all those clubs have something against them so it’s not necessarily as easy as just thinking any of them can just pull away.

Villa - spent loads, bloated squad FFP will be an issue eventually. Pretty rubbish Director of football and a novice manager

Newcastle - (rightly) under scrutiny, if they start doing “bits” in the transfer windows coming up expect the current big boys to be putting pressure on the FA/UEFA to reign them in. Distinctly average manager and the real threat of relegation first season could put them right in trouble.

West Ham - massive purple patch delivered by a manager who had been written off previously. Owners who absolutely do not care at all who if they do sell will be a protracted saga. Heavily rely on 2 or 3 players.

Us - mixed bag. Investment seemingly dried up however still have the most influential man in world football in our corner. A manager trying to slowly change things.

In summing up I think it’ll take a lot of work for any of us to become long term top 6 clubs.

 

[Pintandkebab]

I suppose we need to be realistic and we are so far off the top 4/6 . Yes we like many will get the odd win against the big boys but you need major investment every season to compete or look to compete with them. I don't think Fosun have that approach in their model for Wolves . They want a club that can try and move on it's own with less investment from them . Unfortunately we will or have hit our level and if Fosun leave us to just sell to buy then we will for now just be a mid table club .

 

[Sussex Kent]

West Ham are also being brought by a Czech billionaire, doesn't seem to be crazy wealthy - he also owns Sparta Prague

He hasn't bought them outright, just a 27% stake I understand. David Sullivan is still the biggest stakeholder, David Gold the 3rd biggest. There's a total of about 7 stakeholders, so no outright owner and not as a sugardaddy, just an investor.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

He hasn't bought them outright, just a 27% stake I understand. David Sullivan is still the biggest stakeholder, David Gold the 3rd biggest. There's a total of about 7 stakeholders, so no outright owner and not as a sugardaddy, just an investor.

Yeah he is going to buy them though soon by all accounts

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I suppose we need to be realistic and we are so far off the top 4/6 . Yes we like many will get the odd win against the big boys but you need major investment every season to compete or look to compete with them. I don't think Fosun have that approach in their model for Wolves . They want a club that can try and move on it's own with less investment from them . Unfortunately we will or have hit our level and if Fosun leave us to just sell to buy then we will for now just be a mid table club .

I don’t think that’s necessarily true at all. With Mendes in our corner the buy to sell model car work. It just requires time and patience, something lacking in a lot of our “fans”

 

[Sussex Kent]

Yeah he is going to buy them though soon by all accounts

Don't think he will. He's got fingers in so many pies, a big serial investor. Same route as Warren Buffet, buys cheap stock in up and coming and established companies, sits on them. His money is all tied up. He would need to liquidate most of his portfolio to buy one company. This isn't how he makes his money, he likes a return. And as we all know, you don't make money from a football club.
Besides Gold & Sullivan have appointed siblings to the board as they want the family entity the remain at WHU. The ONLY way they'll all sell up if some HUGE oil trillionaire offers mental money to all the stakeholders.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Don't think he will. He's got fingers in so many pies, a big serial investor. Same route as Warren Buffet, buys cheap stock in up and coming and established companies, sits on them. His money is all tied up. He would need to liquidate most of his portfolio to buy one company. This isn't how he makes his money, he likes a return. And as we all know, you don't make money from a football club.
Besides Gold & Sullivan have appointed siblings to the board as they want the family entity the remain at WHU. The ONLY way they'll all sell up if some HUGE oil trillionaire offers mental money to all the stakeholders.

He'll just buy them with leverage if he wants to as most corporate takeovers are done. But yeah it depends on what the dildo brothers do

 

[WolfLing]

I think we are well placed for the next cycle of Mendes players.

Look at his top 5 clients in terms of value now, Ruben Dias, Bernardo Silva, Fabinho, Cancelo and Ederson, they are all at Man City or Liverpool. All of these players were arguably out of reach for us when they became available, typically over the last 3-4 years when they were around age 23-25.

The next tier down from that are either players we already own (Neves, Trincao, Neto), or players we are constantly linked with (Sanches).

There's also a very good current crop of Portuguese players in that 21/22 year old bracket. A lot are already Mendes players. Porto have a few around that age bracket, Joao Mario (Right back), Fabio Vieira (Attacking midfield), Diogo Costa (GK) and a player well-known to us, Vitinha.

These players are playing regularly at the top end of the Portuguese league and in Europe. A lot will break through to the full Portuguese side in the next few years if they haven't already.

So over the next 2-3 years, if they continue their development, these are the players that will be making the same sort of £30/40m+ moves as players such as Dias, Ederson, Fabinho and Bernardo Silva.

We are now in a much better position to compete for the signature of those players and certainly ahead of the likes of West Ham and Villa on that front. 2-3 years might also be too soon for Newcastle if they are relegated this season as expected.