VAR

[forge]

Why am I not surprised that when polled the highest rate of fans that support VAR seem to come from Arsenal, UTD, Chelsea, and Liverpool? While I dislike Villa even VAR can't seem to get the decision right. The only reason Ollie Watkins was offside was because he was being held back and fouled by a West Ham defender, and in order to get away from him he pulled forward. Due to VAR being more concerned with offside they missed the foul. They get the decision wrong far too many times, and seem to be doing less to help the referee and more to cause controversy.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55160134

To be honest, I'm very torn on VAR, as I think that it's important in the sense that it could prevent something like the Hand of God happening again, but at the same time - at least in the premier league- the decisions almost never go the way of the non big six club. There's no excuse when they have multiple camera angles and the ability to slow down and analyse the event, that they get it wrong - yet they still do. For instance, let's pick the pen that should have been awarded to us against Arsenal. It was waived away as Adama diving. VAR did their check they said they saw nothing. After the game everyone could see that his foot had been stepped on (remarkably similarly to the penalty that was awarded against us last December against Man City where Mahrez was hobbling like someone had just shot a hole in his foot ),










or even go to our game against Leicester



And before anyone cares to mention yes I know Leicester are not in the big 6. The fact that VAR thought this was a pen was demonstrably wrong. He's about a metre and a half away, running using that hand to keep balance, and pulling it back as fast as he can. Imagine the precedent this sets. This could mean that players could be picking out players arms in order to win a penalty as opposed to a pass that could result in them scoring, which is not how the game should be played.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325453036773322755

I mean not even the people running the VAR system that day thought it was a penalty.




What do you guys think needs to happen in order to make sure that they system is applied fairly and consistently because at the moment it is ruining the game, and cheating teams who don't have an established dynasty of premier league history out of points they deserve.

 

[Hot Fuss]

Worth mentioning that your first line isnt true. The majority of Arsenal, man united, Liverpool fans in this survey DONT think VAR has been good for football.

Those that do are probably tourist type fans who treat football as a television show.

 

[Fenrir_]

I'm still convinced they pick and choose what they look for, the two penalties with Mahrez and Traore sum it up for me. They spent an age looking at one where no challenge was made and gave a penalty for minimal contact, then spent ten seconds looking at one where a challenge was made and there was slightly more contact, only to not give it and leave the fouled player carrying a booking for diving!

Total farce, take refs out the game

Then shoot them!

 

[tamwolf]

I'm not convinced Ollie Watkins wouldn't have been offside if he wasn't being held back. Surely he would have been further offside and holding him back made it closer.

 

[Golden Wanderer]

More often than not the VAR ref will side with the ref on the pitch. Support their fellow ref. So, the only way it could work is by making it independent from referees. Former pros would be the obvious choice.

 

[goldfish]

I'd get rid of VAR, but if it's going to stay a few suggestions to improve it:

1. Change the criteria for the referee making a 'clear and obvious error' so that getting the correct decision is prioritised. I don't think Michael Oliver made a 'clear and obvious error' in not giving the penalty - I could understand why he gave the decision he did. But that doesn't mean he got the decision right.
2. Broadcast the conversation between the VAR official and the referee (as in rugby).
3. Allow refs to look at the screen where there is doubt. At the moment they can only look where the VAR thinks they've made a mistake (i.e. if the ref goes to the screen they've already been told they're wrong).
4. Change the offside rule so there is more leeway for the attacker (e.g. daylight, or 30cm, or something). Of course no matter where the line is drawn there will always be decisions that are on or offside by the tiniest of margins, but I think everyone would find it easier to accept.
5. Change the handball rule such it's only handball if there is a clear movement of the arm/hand towards the ball. Get rid of the nonsense about having your arm/hand in an 'unnatural position' - Doherty vs. Burnley, for example, was entirely 'natural' given he risked being kicked in the face.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

I ****ing hate VAR.

I only skim read the article, thanks for sharing though, what I’d be interesting to know is the percentage of fans who go regularly (not just the super fans who get away tickets mind) who think it has improved the game.

There is a stark contrast between my peer group of friends who attend matches vs. those who only watch on TV. I’ll leave you all to guess which fans want it got rid of immediately.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

For the sake of the game, VAR can never exist in any form.

Football just isn't meant for this level of technology. Why do we so easily forget just how much we all loved the sport before all of this nonsense. The over complicating, the tweaking, the do this, do that, I'm no philistine, but it's just ridiculous.

At first the rhetoric was that fans supposedly wanted referees to go over to the monitor. Once everybody realised how futile that process was, now the 'we want to hear what they're discussing' drum is being banged again. When that proves to be utterly pointless as well, then what?

Why is it so hard to fathom that the absolute concrete, screaming issue with VAR is that fans feel as though they can no longer celebrate a goal? That's it. That is literally 99% of the issue. And it's an issue that will never ever disappear however much every other aspect is improved. The problem is, that hurdle is the greatest thing about football, and it's impossible to compromise. And eventually will lead to pushing people away.

Until that penny drops, this rancid system is going to carry on, and for the sake of what? The 1% of good it brings now and then?

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

We have had this argument ad infinitum

VAR is not the problem its the law makers and operators that cause the confusion
No consistency at all,over zealous officials,no common sense used

We even have our officials ignoring FIFA regulations on it,they have very few problems abroad, only this country does it raise its head in virtually every game,surely that must tell them something

It does not need to be used in every instance,only when a "CLEAR AND OBVIOUS" error has been made,if you are offside by a milimeter thats not clear and obvious,if the ball brushes your arm 5 moves before a goal is scored, its not clear and obvious so does not need to be reviewed

You can go on and on,and we usually do lol







2

 

[forge]

Worth mentioning that your first line isnt true. The majority of Arsenal, man united, Liverpool fans in this survey DONT think VAR has been good for football.

Those that do are probably tourist type fans who treat football as a television show.

Sorry what I should have said is, the highest rate of football fans that believe that VAR is good come from the top 6 clubs

 

[forge]

I'm not convinced Ollie Watkins wouldn't have been offside if he wasn't being held back. Surely he would have been further offside and holding him back made it closer.

I might be mistaken, but I don't think he was offside while being fouled that was up until the moment he pulled forward to score the goal.

this is the moment he starts being fouled and I'm pretty sure he was being played onside by #5

 

[wolfie_tc]

It has it's problems, there's no two ways about it, but the idea of it is still an important one, I think we can all agree that some errors need to be eradicated, no one wants to see another hand of God or Lampard's goal go unnoticed, but improvements need to be made and I think they'll get there.

For me there are a couple of things that would improve it immensely:

1. Add a time limit on it. If they can't decide within 30 seconds if a player is offside or not, then the player is not offside, simple as. None of this waiting 2-3 minutes looking at millimetres. Really it shouldn't take longer than it takes the team to celebrate and get back to their half for kick off.
2. The handball thing. I actually think making handball more black and white makes sense, in that if it hits your arm/hand in the box in any way then you should be penalised. Not because I think that's right, it just makes it easier to officiate. I do think however that the question of 'deliberate or not' needs to be looked at more, and if it's not deemed deliberate (i.e. Kilman) then it's not a penalty, but an indirect free kick, and it's only if it's deliberate that it's a penalty. For me that's the easiest way to solve this handball issue.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

We have had this argument ad infinitum

VAR is not the problem its the law makers and operators that cause the confusion
No consistency at all,over zealous officials,no common sense used

We even have our officials ignoring FIFA regulations on it,they have very few problems abroad, only this country does it raise its head in virtually every game,surely that must tell them something

It does not need to be used in every instance,only when a "CLEAR AND OBVIOUS" error has been made,if you are offside by a milimeter thats not clear and obvious,if the ball brushes your arm 5 moves before a goal is scored, its not clear and obvious so does not need to be reviewed

You can go on and on,and we usually do lol







2

Genuine question -

Do you still celebrate goals in the same way? Or are you like me, who feels reluctant to really commit to the previous joy that a Wolves goal used to bring pre VAR?

If so, this is where I have the issue with the argument that it's not the technology but the rules. Because for me, so long as it exists at all, so long as there is this watching eye over the game, then regardless of how lenient the system becomes, I'll always feel this looming trepidation that the goal is going to be ruled out.

That's what I can't get on board with when it comes to the point that it's how the rules are being implemented. Of course, you're right in that regard, it's a joke how persnickety they are with it, but I just cannot see how I'll ever be the same in terms of celebrating a goal again, however much it improved, and that is why for me, it just has to go.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

It has it's problems, there's no two ways about it, but the idea of it is still an important one, I think we can all agree that some errors need to be eradicated, no one wants to see another hand of God or Lampard's goal go unnoticed, but improvements need to be made and I think they'll get there.

For me there are a couple of things that would improve it immensely:

1. Add a time limit on it. If they can't decide within 30 seconds if a player is offside or not, then the player is not offside, simple as. None of this waiting 2-3 minutes looking at millimetres. Really it shouldn't take longer than it takes the team to celebrate and get back to their half for kick off.
2. The handball thing. I actually think making handball more black and white makes sense, in that if it hits your arm/hand in the box in any way then you should be penalised. Not because I think that's right, it just makes it easier to officiate. I do think however that the question of 'deliberate or not' needs to be looked at more, and if it's not deemed deliberate (i.e. Kilman) then it's not a penalty, but an indirect free kick, and it's only if it's deliberate that it's a penalty. For me that's the easiest way to solve this handball issue.

How often are these absolute howlers that you referenced? They're so infrequent, the two you mentioned are decades apart. In fact, all VAR has done in terms of line officials is highlight how accurate they generally are.

In terms of the time limit - How does that eradicate the feeling fans now have whenever their team scores? Most admit they celebrate far less because of VAR. If anything, a time limit will just put more pressure on the idiots running the show.

The simplest answer with all of it is to just return to what we had before. It really wasn't that bad.

 

[wolfie_tc]

How often are these absolute howlers that you referenced? They're so infrequent, the two you mentioned are decades apart. In fact, all VAR has done in terms of line officials is highlight how accurate they generally are.

In terms of the time limit - How does that eradicate the feeling fans now have whenever their team scores? Most admit they celebrate far less because of VAR. If anything, a time limit will just put more pressure on the idiots running the show.

The simplest answer with all of it is to just return to what we had before. It really wasn't that bad.

No I agree, they're incredibly infrequent, and one of those has already been superbly eradicated with the use of goal line technology, my point was just that regardless of how infrequent, those situations need to be taken out of the game.
And 'less important' howlers similar to that happen every season, and were the exactly the reason why we were all calling for the idea of VAR in the first place.
The problems lie in the execution of it, something that needs to be severely worked on, and like it or not VAR is here to stay so people need to talk about improving the system rather than getting rid of the thing.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Genuine question -

Do you still celebrate goals in the same way? Or are you like me, who feels reluctant to really commit to the previous joy that a Wolves goal used to bring pre VAR?

If so, this is where I have the issue with the argument that it's not the technology but the rules. Because for me, so long as it exists at all, so long as there is this watching eye over the game, then regardless of how lenient the system becomes, I'll always feel this looming trepidation that the goal is going to be ruled out.

That's what I can't get on board with when it comes to the point that it's how the rules are being implemented. Of course, you're right in that regard, it's a joke how persnickety they are with it, but I just cannot see how I'll ever be the same in terms of celebrating a goal again, however much it improved, and that is why for me, it just has to go.

In answer to your question,well yes for about 2 seconds, then i realise the ref is listening to his earpiece and wait for another 2/3 minutes until they kick off lol
So seriously no, i dont think anyone does now,and your right thats totally down to VAR, or at least the possibility of its use
I genuinely thought the pitch side monitors would be a great help but hardly any ref uses them,and even if they do they use slow motion replays which gives a false impression
All they need to do is watch one or 2 replays in normal time and base their decision on that,no one would argue if common sense is used,even if we disagree on the outcome
We have always called the refs and Linos all the names under the sun,and yes they made mistakes,but we never had them rolling on and being discussed weeks later like we do now,it was done and dusted in a day or two because its football and they are human,now we are relying on tech too much

 

[wolfie_tc]

Genuine question -

Do you still celebrate goals in the same way? Or are you like me, who feels reluctant to really commit to the previous joy that a Wolves goal used to bring pre VAR?

If so, this is where I have the issue with the argument that it's not the technology but the rules. Because for me, so long as it exists at all, so long as there is this watching eye over the game, then regardless of how lenient the system becomes, I'll always feel this looming trepidation that the goal is going to be ruled out.

That's what I can't get on board with when it comes to the point that it's how the rules are being implemented. Of course, you're right in that regard, it's a joke how persnickety they are with it, but I just cannot see how I'll ever be the same in terms of celebrating a goal again, however much it improved, and that is why for me, it just has to go.

I'm the same as you here, unless it's a set piece or a 30 yard Neves special, generally speaking I don't celebrate a goal like I used to at all, because I've always got that pessimistic 'well they'll probably rule it out' voice going on in my head. So I agree, for that reason I'd love it if VAR was never a thing, because it's taken that special element away for sure.

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

Very poor poll. Most people i know hate VAR and where the games going.
Football is a simple game that we all fell in love with, the rules were the same no matter what level you played at.
Now the authorities seem to make new interpreations making the game worse.
Obsessed with trying to make it an exact science. The games becoming like that rubbish scripted wrestling.

VAR would work for horrendous errors. Mistaken identity. Nearly everything else is subjective in the penalty box. For offsides i guess its consistent now but i'm not a fan.

Considering we were behind other leagues in implementing VAR the way its been implementing has been abysmal

 

[Munich_Wolf]

I ****ing hate VAR.

I only skim read the article, thanks for sharing though, what I’d be interesting to know is the percentage of fans who go regularly (not just the super fans who get away tickets mind) who think it has improved the game.

There is a stark contrast between my peer group of friends who attend matches vs. those who only watch on TV. I’ll leave you all to guess which fans want it got rid of immediately.

Being hundreds of miles away I only watch on TV, and I loathe VAR and want to turn the damned thing off half the time. I'm not sure its indicative of the TV vs attendance fan per se, but maybe the fifa generation or even moreso the plastics

 

[Munich_Wolf]

It has it's problems, there's no two ways about it, but the idea of it is still an important one, I think we can all agree that some errors need to be eradicated, no one wants to see another hand of God or Lampard's goal go unnoticed, but improvements need to be made and I think they'll get there.

For me there are a couple of things that would improve it immensely:

1. Add a time limit on it. If they can't decide within 30 seconds if a player is offside or not, then the player is not offside, simple as. None of this waiting 2-3 minutes looking at millimetres. Really it shouldn't take longer than it takes the team to celebrate and get back to their half for kick off.
2. The handball thing. I actually think making handball more black and white makes sense, in that if it hits your arm/hand in the box in any way then you should be penalised. Not because I think that's right, it just makes it easier to officiate. I do think however that the question of 'deliberate or not' needs to be looked at more, and if it's not deemed deliberate (i.e. Kilman) then it's not a penalty, but an indirect free kick, and it's only if it's deliberate that it's a penalty. For me that's the easiest way to solve this handball issue.

One of the incidents you mention was in 1986 and the other 2010.....

Give me glaring errors like that once every decade or two over the 2-6 joy killing decisions we get week in week out. Var IS the issue

 

[old wittonian]

In answer to your question,well yes for about 2 seconds, then i realise the ref is listening to his earpiece and wait for another 2/3 minutes until they kick off lol
So seriously no, i dont think anyone does now,and your right thats totally down to VAR, or at least the possibility of its use
I genuinely thought the pitch side monitors would be a great help but hardly any ref uses them,and even if they do they use slow motion replays which gives a false impression
All they need to do is watch one or 2 replays in normal time and base their decision on that,no one would argue if common sense is used,even if we disagree on the outcome
We have always called the refs and Linos all the names under the sun,and yes they made mistakes,but we never had them rolling on and being discussed weeks later like we do now,it was done and dusted in a day or two because its football and they are human,now we are relying on tech too much

It seems to me that the referee is no longer the final arbiter.
I agree with the time limit suggestion. Also are the VAR pictures shown live at the ground.

 

[Peszkywolf]

Taken the excitement out of our game..... and I'm going to sing **** VAR at every game until it's gone, it's just bringing more subjectivity into a subjective sport.

Probably find most fans who watch it on telly are the ones who back it, inevitably those tend to follow the big clubs.

 

[Contrarian]

Sorry what I should have said is, the highest rate of football fans that believe that VAR is good come from the top 6 clubs

Probably because they have the most "TV watching fans"? Can't believe that 30% of "active" football watchers, those that go to at least a few live matches a season (where VAR is present) believe VAR adds to the game. I'd also guess that the these are the clubs that have been least affected by it so far. I can't remember Arsenal having a crucial goal disallowed by VAR - though I can recall one for most other clubs. Human nature to be dismissive of something until it hits you directly, look at how Liverpool fans have changed since a couple of decisions went against them. Rest assured that if Arsenal are denied a Champions League place by a goal disallowed against Burnley or somebody, that 30% level of VAR support from Arsenal fans would halve instantly.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

Being hundreds of miles away I only watch on TV, and I loathe VAR and want to turn the damned thing off half the time. I'm not sure its indicative of the TV vs attendance fan per se, but maybe the fifa generation or even moreso the plastics

Fair point. I think my description has let down what I was trying to get at. Ultimately I mean fans that could get to at least 1 or 2 games per season but don’t, yet still watch all the games all weekend on TV.

I should add none of those types of people I know are Wolves fans.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

I'm the same as you here, unless it's a set piece or a 30 yard Neves special, generally speaking I don't celebrate a goal like I used to at all, because I've always got that pessimistic 'well they'll probably rule it out' voice going on in my head. So I agree, for that reason I'd love it if VAR was never a thing, because it's taken that special element away for sure.

Yep.

And this is what I'm getting at, and exactly why I don't see how it ever works.

I don't care if we get to hear what they're discussing. I don't care if they get more lenient with the offsides. I don't care if they start taking less time. I don't even care if they become more consistent. How will any of that stop fans, and players, feeling as they now do when their team scores a goal?

Why this is so overlooked is beyond me. Fiddle about with it all they want, this will never change, it's incapable of doing so. And that should really be all that matters.

Do fans want to be able to celebrate a goal properly again, or have the odd howler once every blue moon dealt with? It's as basic as that when it comes down to it. And surely, the answer is obvious.

Honestly, I'm sick of hearing all this nonsense about different suggestions in terms of improving it. And you actually still have people justifying this utter ****. Or giving it the time of day discussing whether it was right or wrong in certain subjective instances. It's all completely irrelevant to the glaring and non fixable issue.

I can't imagine what it must be like for the youngest of fans. If this was in place when I was first taken to the game as 5 year old, I'd have found another interest very quickly.

If you can now longer fully enjoy the moment of your team scoring a goal, what is the point?

Eventually, probably after a few years of ****ing about focusing on different aspects, this glaring point will finally become clear to everybody.

 

[Peszkywolf]

It's so farcical, the only good thing is watching them trying to persisting with the whole thing when we know it's naff. Worst thing in football since Dean Saunders' so called managerial career.

 

[RMNottm]

All technologies have limitations, VAR's technical limitations are not published. It is corrupt.

It still introduces human error so we are no better of than just refs and assistant refs.

It completely destroys the in-stadium experience and greatly impairs the at-home experience.

For the purity of the game, the ongoing commercial future and fan pleasure.

Get rid!

 

[Burton Wolf]

Surely goal line technology is all we need? It works well and gives a goal when it is a goal.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Surely goal line technology is all we need? It works well and gives a goal when it is a goal.

Except when the Vile are involved....

 

[Wolfman jack]

I'd get rid of VAR, but if it's going to stay a few suggestions to improve it:

1. Change the criteria for the referee making a 'clear and obvious error' so that getting the correct decision is prioritised. I don't think Michael Oliver made a 'clear and obvious error' in not giving the penalty - I could understand why he gave the decision he did. But that doesn't mean he got the decision right.
2. Broadcast the conversation between the VAR official and the referee (as in rugby).
3. Allow refs to look at the screen where there is doubt. At the moment they can only look where the VAR thinks they've made a mistake (i.e. if the ref goes to the screen they've already been told they're wrong).
4. Change the offside rule so there is more leeway for the attacker (e.g. daylight, or 30cm, or something). Of course no matter where the line is drawn there will always be decisions that are on or offside by the tiniest of margins, but I think everyone would find it easier to accept.
5. Change the handball rule such it's only handball if there is a clear movement of the arm/hand towards the ball. Get rid of the nonsense about having your arm/hand in an 'unnatural position' - Doherty vs. Burnley, for example, was entirely 'natural' given he risked being kicked in the face.

I would add that 1. any VAR decision should be publicly published for all to see after the game 2. No VAR decision should take more than 30 secs

 

[sedgwolf1980]

I’m nowhere near articulate enough to be able to put into words how much I hate VAR.

Even when it’s right, it’s wrong.

Just so, so wrong.

 

[Liskeard wolf]

We have had this argument ad infinitum

VAR is not the problem its the law makers and operators that cause the confusion
No consistency at all,over zealous officials,no common sense used

We even have our officials ignoring FIFA regulations on it,they have very few problems abroad, only this country does it raise its head in virtually every game,surely that must tell them something

It does not need to be used in every instance,only when a "CLEAR AND OBVIOUS" error has been made,if you are offside by a milimeter thats not clear and obvious,if the ball brushes your arm 5 moves before a goal is scored, its not clear and obvious so does not need to be reviewed

You can go on and on,and we usually do lol







2

Totally agree BCW

 

[Ogerp]

From FIFA president :

"VAR is not an obligation, it's there to help," said Infantino. "Those who don't want to use it, they are not obliged to use it."

Well that's cleared the muddy waters.

VAR 'not damaging' football - Infantino

 

[A3wolf]

VAR I would consider are:

1. A panel of say 5 at Stockley Park where the majority decision counts. No comms allowed between them. Would cut out the ref being able to review his decision. So the decision does not rest on the shoulders of one person and away from the intimidation of the players
2. Clearer rules overall.
E.g. To avoid ambiguity, handball should perhaps be any touch of the hand or arm however close to the body. Avoids as much subjectivity on what is an unnatural position.
& Offside is offside whether or not interfering with play.
3. A designated time limit before a goal, say 30 secs, you can go back to review whether a foul in the build up.

 

[BarryM]

I agree with the post above regarding more officials in stockley park with a majority rule ... With no Comms between them.

If 3 then 1 should be an ex player or if 5 then 2 should be ex players.

In regards to the offside ... I think there should be a certain thickness to the lines they are using and if any overlap on the lines then not offside ... This would rule out the painstaking toenail offsides and would also eliminate to an extent the discrepancy between the actual moment the ball leaves contact of the player and resulting pass.

 

[Peszkywolf]

Even when VAR awards a goal to us correctly....(has it happened?) I still don't like it. Can we make a banner, South Bank hates VAR more than Sandwell Town.

 

[The Wolf In The North]

Even when it’s right, it’s wrong.

Just so, so wrong.

Truer words never spoken.

Whenever VAR highlights something that someone somewhere judges correct, and a fan or commentator says, "Well, that's what it's there for", I want to scream. I don't care.

VAR takes away more than it gives. A hundred correct miniscule decisions don't make up for the way joy has been eradicated when a goal is (possibly) scored.

And they will keep using it because they feel they have to. It has to justify its existence. VAR is a waffle maker that sits on the kitchen counter, staring at you every morning, guilting you into making ****ing waffles when everyone in the house is so utterly sick of ****ing waffles.

There was one massive decision last year that needed the intervention of VAR, the goal over the line in the Villa Sheffield game. VAR shuffled its shoes and said "Nuffin to do wiv me, mate." Says it all.