VAR - puzzled

[manchesterwolf17]

I heard at the weekend that they're going to have VAR in the SPL as of next season. I sort of feel like the more it's used the more it will gradually be hated more and more. Therefore the louder the voices will be against it.

Just imagine a match between say Ross County and Dundee being stopped every few minutes. The fans will despise it within a few weeks. Same goes for when it inevitably comes into the Championship and beyond.

 

[old wittonian]

i know this could be debated until the cows come home but if memory serves me when this was introduced i thought it was for clear and obvious errors?

That's right. But what is the definition of clear and obvious. Seems to me it's a subjective test at present.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

That's right. But what is the definition of clear and obvious. Seems to me it's a subjective test at present.

It's incredible really that people didn't see that as soon as an inch was given they'd take a mile.

Peter Walton only a few months back said on BT that VAR is there for Maradona type errors. But that's just BS isn't it. They scrutinise absolutely everything and have done since it was first introduced. Just can't help themselves.

 

[jrpb-3]

i know this could be debated until the cows come home but if memory serves me when this was introduced i thought it was for clear and obvious errors?

that's part of the problem, nobody bothered to put any definition of terms on what "clear and Obvious" actually covers or not

 

[Zico]

One of VAR's main jobs appears to be to try as hard as possible to find a reason to disallow a goal.

That fact alone should shame its creators and defenders.

 

[Achilles Last Stand]

I said it was a penalty straight away,but when i watched the slow motion,i changed my mind
Yes Saiss caught him and nowadays its a foul,but if you look Lukaku is actually when he gets caught so a free kick on the edge should have been given
I dont see the point in the ref going to the monitor when told to by VAR, as you know he has to reverse his decision,VAR may as well just say its a pen straight away,ive not seen a ref yet go against them

We also remember last seasons home game against the unwashed, and their first penalty. The attacker is outside of the penalty-area and the ball is on the line, then he "dives" into the area and gets the penalty by our mate Oliver.
Does anyone know the rules in this case, is it really a penalty when the ball is on the line?

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I didn't moan about it at the time because I was livid with the awful defending from Saiss.

However, it's a very, very soft penalty. If you want to give it, you obviously can, he does touch Lukaku and I'd say the fact he brings his leg back the second time clinches it as a penalty in the modern game, if you want it to be.

I agree that no way do we get a penalty for that after the ref says no though.

 

[old wittonian]

It's incredible really that people didn't see that as soon as an inch was given they'd take a mile.

Peter Walton only a few months back said on BT that VAR is there for Maradona type errors. But that's just BS isn't it. They scrutinise absolutely everything and have done since it was first introduced. Just can't help themselves.

I used to think the rugby TMO was good until in the Edinburgh v Wasps cup tie over the weekend. He intervened in an incident he wasn't entitled to. The ref even joined. The only good thing was it achieved the correct result.

 

[ewarwoowar]

One of VAR's main jobs appears to be to try as hard as possible to find a reason to disallow a goal.

That fact alone should shame its creators and defenders.

i have said this previously,i call it GPS,(goal prevention system) cos they ain`t looking to allow it

 

[JonahWolf]

We also remember last seasons home game against the unwashed, and their first penalty. The attacker is outside of the penalty-area and the ball is on the line, then he "dives" into the area and gets the penalty by our mate Oliver.
Does anyone know the rules in this case, is it really a penalty when the ball is on the line?

The thickness of the line is included in the box.
Same as buying millilitres on corner placement with the outer curve of the ball just hanging over the arc, and the whole of the ball having to cross the line when they use goal line tech.

 

[Greeno]

It annoyed me that the VAR and the ref (on the pitch side monitor) were only looking at a video of the incident after Saiss was on the floor.

Yes, if you look at the video from that point onwards, clearly it's always going to be given as a penalty, as Saiss tripped Lukaku.

But Saiss was on the deck in the first place because he got a slight push from Lukaku.

View the incident as a whole and it's just six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Surely they were looking for a possible penalty, though?

I don't agree with it, don't get me wrong. But penalties and 'goals' are checked aren't they? VAR were never going to be involved if Lukaku had fouled (or not) Saiss there. However, there was a possible penalty, so it was used. Anywhere else on the pitch and everyone plays on.

Otherwise, you have to go back and check for all possible infringements within a "reasonable" time frame for each and every time it's used. No one wants that. The games dying as it is.

The one, to this day, that still ****es me off is the VvD handball against us some time back.. That was magically deemed to be too far from the incident so it didn't count - grrrrrr!

As has been said, they got the 'goal' from the corner perfectly right, the flick back off Lukaku's knee made RLC offside, which NO ONE saw in real time. That was an example that it worked really, really well.

 

[WolfLing]

Surely they were looking for a possible penalty, though?

I don't agree with it, don't get me wrong. But penalties and 'goals' are checked aren't they? VAR were never going to be involved if Lukaku had fouled (or not) Saiss there. However, there was a possible penalty, so it was used. Anywhere else on the pitch and everyone plays on.

Otherwise, you have to go back and check for all possible infringements within a "reasonable" time frame for each and every time it's used. No one wants that. The games dying as it is.

The one, to this day, that still ****es me off is the VvD handball against us some time back.. That was magically deemed to be too far from the incident so it didn't count - grrrrrr!

As has been said, they got the 'goal' from the corner perfectly right, the flick back off Lukaku's knee made RLC offside, which NO ONE saw in real time. That was an example that it worked really, really well.

I think you just have to use some common sense. At the moment there’s none.

If you have to put a time limit of 5 seconds on it or something, do that, but Saiss being on the floor was crucial to how that penalty incident played out and part of the same passage of play/duel that led to it.

What if the push on Saiss had been a more blatant foul, but was still missed by the referee? Saiss then does that thing where they handle the ball assuming a free kick. Does VAR then get involved?

Based on what you’re saying, the only outcome VAR could give would be penalty for handball. But it would be ridiculous not to check what led to him handling the ball.

The VAR either needs to be got rid of, or have their powers extended (in line with how rugby use them more effectively).

Fouls in the build up to goals (Pogba on Neves, which should have been checked anyway, as it was probably a red card).

Fouls by attacking player in lead up to a penalty (potentially Lukaku).

Referees should be asking things like, “I think this is a penalty, is there any reason why I shouldn’t award it?” and we should all be able to hear it!!

 

[Greeno]

I think you just have to use some common sense. At the moment there’s none.

If you have to put a time limit of 5 seconds on it or something, do that, but Saiss being on the floor was crucial to how that penalty incident played out and part of the same passage of play/duel that led to it.

What if the push on Saiss had been a more blatant foul, but was still missed by the referee? Saiss then does that thing where they handle the ball assuming a free kick. Does VAR then get involved?

Based on what you’re saying, the only outcome VAR could give would be penalty for handball. But it would be ridiculous not to check what led to him handling the ball.

The VAR either needs to be got rid of, or have their powers extended (in line with how rugby use them more effectively).

Fouls in the build up to goals (Pogba on Neves, which should have been checked anyway, as it was probably a red card).

Fouls by attacking player in lead up to a penalty (potentially Lukaku).

Referees should be asking things like, “I think this is a penalty, is there any reason why I shouldn’t award it?” and we should all be able to hear it!!

Yes! hearing the conversations between the refs and SP is the way to stop most of this nonsense!

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

sky debated whether Saiss should have had another yellow for the pen. and been sent off so Chelsea
would have won!

 

[Ebbo]

I hate VAR, it's an abomination, has a massively detrimental effect on the moment goals are celebrated and needs binning off, takes too long and is corrupt in benefitting the top 6.

But we're stuck with it. One thing that I am proud of with VAR, is how we as Wolves are very vocal about it. '**** VAR' rings out, whatever the situation, for or against us. Consistent in our hatred of it. Watford away, when their player was sent off, Saturday when they took ages to check the Chelsea goal which was eventually disallowed for offside... not changing an opinion just because it's likely to benefit us at that point. I love that!

 

[WolfLing]

I hate VAR, it's an abomination, has a massively detrimental effect on the moment goals are celebrated and needs binning off, takes too long and is corrupt in benefitting the top 6.

But we're stuck with it. One thing that I am proud of with VAR, is how we as Wolves are very vocal about it. '**** VAR' rings out, whatever the situation, for or against us. Consistent in our hatred of it. Watford away, when their player was sent off, Saturday when they took ages to check the Chelsea goal which was eventually disallowed for offside... not changing an opinion just because it's likely to benefit us at that point. I love that!

The only thing that makes it worse is goal music, that opposition fans then sing back to you when the goal is chalked off.

 

[old wittonian]

I think you just have to use some common sense. At the moment there’s none.

If you have to put a time limit of 5 seconds on it or something, do that, but Saiss being on the floor was crucial to how that penalty incident played out and part of the same passage of play/duel that led to it.

What if the push on Saiss had been a more blatant foul, but was still missed by the referee? Saiss then does that thing where they handle the ball assuming a free kick. Does VAR then get involved?

Based on what you’re saying, the only outcome VAR could give would be penalty for handball. But it would be ridiculous not to check what led to him handling the ball.

The VAR either needs to be got rid of, or have their powers extended (in line with how rugby use them more effectively).

Fouls in the build up to goals (Pogba on Neves, which should have been checked anyway, as it was probably a red card).

Fouls by attacking player in lead up to a penalty (potentially Lukaku).

Referees should be asking things like, “I think this is a penalty, is there any reason why I shouldn’t award it?” and we should all be able to hear it!!

Mike Dean said he had seen the Neves incident. He was happy and allegedly said it didn't need reviewing.

 

[hambaps]

Some of you have short memories. Referee bias was disgusting before VAR. Now it's just the same, but we get a closer look with some BS reason to justify their decision.

 

[WolfLing]

Mike Dean said he had seen the Neves incident. He was happy and allegedly said it didn't need reviewing.

That's where the VAR are wrongly seen as second-class citizens.

I use the example of rugby again, because it works better. But in rugby, the VAR arguably has more power than the on-field referee.

It's still all about trying to make split-second calls on first viewing in football, whereas it should be an initial thought, followed by a consensus opinion to reach a crucial decision (like rugby!).

Mike Dean shouldn't be able to just say, "no, there's no way I've made a mistake there, that doesn't need reviewing"!

What should have happened is Mike Dean should have said to the VAR, "I thought that was a fair tackle by Pogba in the run-up to that goal, but was there anything in it that you think might change my opinion?"

The VAR then says, "In my opinion, Pogba hasn't won the ball and has caught Neves high on the shin. My recommendation would be to disallow the goal, bring it back for a free kick to Wolves, and review the monitor to decide if any further punishment is required".

There's no way anyone looks at that Pogba tackle in slow-mo and decides it's anything other than a foul and probably a red card, just like what happened against Liverpool, when Pogba had a yellow upgraded to a red.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

We also remember last seasons home game against the unwashed, and their first penalty. The attacker is outside of the penalty-area and the ball is on the line, then he "dives" into the area and gets the penalty by our mate Oliver.
Does anyone know the rules in this case, is it really a penalty when the ball is on the line?

It doesnt matter where the ball is
Its where the foul took place,its either in the area or not its that simple

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

It was never a penalty but has become a penalty in modern football. That's the difference. The idea that Saiss' play could floor a bull of a man like Lukaku is ludicrous yet modern fans lap it up. It's shameful and should be called out even when we do the same.

So stronger players should be disadvantaged by needed to be kicked harder for a pen?

Was a stonewaller, Lukaku was jumping over him and Saiss lifted his leg up to trip him. Idiotic defending

 

[Olivergoldblack]

We wouldn’t get one if Rudiger smashed Jimenez on the back with a steel chair, Thiago Silva put him in a headlock before The Undertaker made his Chelsea debut and tombstone pile drived him into the penalty spot.

Well obviously garth crookes in the var room would take a look, then conclude jiminez wasn't even on the pitch, so no penalty.

 

[TheConcourse]

Well obviously garth crookes in the var room would take a look, then conclude jiminez wasn't even on the pitch, so no penalty.

We’d miss the penalty anyway. Some ****er would smash it back to Coady.

 

[Sedgers]

So stronger players should be disadvantaged by needed to be kicked harder for a pen?

Was a stonewaller, Lukaku was jumping over him and Saiss lifted his leg up to trip him. Idiotic defending

I think you're missing the point which is that what Saiss did wouldn't trip a player over that was trying to score a goal. It only trips you over if you're looking for a penalty. In short, if you're cheating. I don't know why some fans accept that as part of the game. I never have. Clearly you do.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

I think you're missing the point which is that what Saiss did wouldn't trip a player over that was trying to score a goal. It only trips you over if you're looking for a penalty. In short, if you're cheating. I don't know why some fans accept that as part of the game. I never have. Clearly you do.

It trips you over if you are airborne, if Saiss don't raise his leg he is running into the box with the ball

 

[TheConcourse]

I think you're missing the point which is that what Saiss did wouldn't trip a player over that was trying to score a goal. It only trips you over if you're looking for a penalty. In short, if you're cheating. I don't know why some fans accept that as part of the game. I never have. Clearly you do.

I think you’re romantic over what you want the game to be and what it is. I’m with you. It isn’t enough to send someone flying, but it’s a foul as in he’s obstructing the player from moving forward.

You also have to acknowledge the quality of defending. He should never have put himself in that spot.