Time to discuss the Saudi influence on European football and The Premier League - how could things go ?

[Wolf316]

Surely it's more beneficial to grow their own league into the best in the world. Never going to do that by removing their best players

Sportwashing.

 

[Golden_Wolf]

I'm struggling to see how it's sensible 2bh

It’s really not.

It was pretty obvious and sensible from our owners.

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

Why's it sensible for us to allow some of our closest competitors to benefit from a rule that we currently won't benefit from?

Part of the rule that didn’t get voted in was disclosure of similar bids for players before agreeing to sell to Saudi clubs. We have benefited from not having to do this already when we sold Neves for double what any other club were willing to pay and we will do it in the future.

How will Newcastle benefit from this? They can’t afford to buy all these players from Saudi and they can’t have them for free either

@Golden_Wolf

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Part of the rule that didn’t get voted in was disclosure of similar bids for players before agreeing to sell to Saudi clubs. We have benefited from not having to do this already when we sold Neves for double what any other club were willing to pay and we will do it in the future.

How will Newcastle benefit from this? They can’t afford to buy all these players from Saudi and they can’t have them for free either

@Golden_Wolf

Don't understand the first point? If we disclosed that an offer was made of £50m for Neves, it doesn't change anything?

They checked sales in the summer to ensure they hit the market value (Saint-Maximin was the main contentious one) and nothing came of it. So don't get what we did wrong in the summer, or benefited from? Yes Neves went for a lot, but it was a major statement signing at the time, so they would have to pay a lot.

I'm not saying Newcastle will benefit from it, but it's clear how they could benefit from it. It wouldn't be transfers, it would be loans, which they can afford to do no problem.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

The sad, if predictable, thing about all this, is that everyone seems to be acting in their own interests rather than for the integrity of the competition.

 

[BlahBlah]

We have benefited from not having to do this already when we sold Neves for double what any other club were willing to pay and we will do it in the future.

The interesting thing about this is that we don't have access to all information on these deals....the value of a deal may not be all about what we used to think of as 'the fee', like you'd decide on the price of buying a used car and hand over a cheque.

We may have had to make these arguments ourselves when we bought Neves for 18mill and then got Jota for 14mill, but then bought Silva for 35mill.....which even appeared ludicrous at the time.
The deal for a player is what's been agreed between a buyer and seller, how they structure that deal can be very murky and spread over years. We just get to know an arbitrary figure of a transfer fee that can be wrapped up in many other things.

 

[BlahBlah]

The sad, if predictable, thing about all this, is that everyone seems to be acting in their own interests rather than for the integrity of the competition.

The sad, if predictable, thing about all this, is that everyone seems to be acting in their own business interests because we know it's not a real competition

 

[sc91]

The sad, if predictable, thing about all this, is that everyone seems to be acting in their own interests rather than for the integrity of the competition.

The integrity died years ago, pretending otherwise is just futile.

 

[BlahBlah]

Now why would we vote against that

Perhaps we want to loan Neves back one day?

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

Disappointed we were one of the clubs to vote against this rule but I don’t know the full details yet. Maybe if it was a blanket ban that included all players we decided that it would be cutting off our nose to spite our face

 

[wwfc9]

Turn a club in the richest league in the world into one of the big boys but still have to share your riches with 19 other clubs

Or

Turn your league into the richest league in the world and dictate where all the money goes.

PIF won’t be allowing all the best players to leave the Saudi League and Newcastle can’t sign all those players for free due to FMV rules and they certainly can’t afford to pay what the Saudi clubs are paying due to FFP rules.

Wouldn’t surprise me to see a world league in the next 10 years , the super league fell apart because there weren’t enough teams to see it through , we know the Saudi 4 would be in it so would Newcastle , so would the greedy 6 , you then have Madrid Barca , psg and juventus , that’s 15 straight in and with almost the make of a league 5 others would bite their hand off for a slice of the pie !!! How does prize money of 2 billion a season and no ffp grab ya !! They’d snap their hands off

 

[Olivergoldblack]

Nothing to do with grasshoppers. Grasshoppers are being sold. Our relationship with them will be severed.

The Grasshoppers experiment was worth doing just to develop Toti for us.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Why's it sensible for us to allow some of our closest competitors to benefit from a rule that we currently won't benefit from?

It’s not beneficial to wolves but it is to Fosun and Gestifute. Saudi is the new cash cow and mendes is heavily involved so we were always going to vote that way.

Though I wouldn’t count against Guedes, Silva, Sa, Podence going over there and us getting way above their value.

 

[waggys left foot]

Saudi Public Investment Fund own the four top clubs in Saudi as well as Newcastle so four times as many players to loan

Why would Sheff Utd vote against ?

 

[WW1963]

Saudi takeover incoming!!!!

It's inevitable.

 

[JamesWolves]

Saudi Public Investment Fund own the four top clubs in Saudi as well as Newcastle so four times as many players to loan

Why would Sheff Utd vote against ?

They're owned by a 'lesser' Saudi prince

 

[sedgwolf1980]

I find the older I get, it’s best to just enjoy the match day, hope we have the occasional days like against Spurs, City and the prolonged period under Nuno, but outside of that just detach yourself as much as possible from football as it’s that far removed from the game the majority of us fell in love with you just end up feeling depressed.

 

[Monketron]

Keep mendes and saudi clubs happy and in return we get to shift certain players for inflated fees.

Not just keeping Mendes happy, Fosun get a piece of the profit Gestifute make from all those Saudi deals too.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I find the older I get, it’s best to just enjoy the match day, hope we have the occasional days like against Spurs, City and the prolonged period under Nuno, but outside of that just detach yourself as much as possible from football as it’s that far removed from the game the majority of us fell in love with you just end up feeling depressed.

Have to say, having gone to watch Horsham v Margate last night, I have a lot of sympathy for that comment. Standing there with my son and five hundred or so fans, beer in hand, watching the game from a couple of feet from the edge of the pitch on a cold, dry November night, it reminded me why the game is so good. The ref was rubbish, buying Margate’s frequent dives to win fouls, but there was no VAR to cause delay or confusion. It wasn’t a great game, but our local team Horsham, dominated and Margate had clearly come for a draw, but we got an 87th min winner right in front of the “Lardy Army”. Easy and very quick trip home. All made for a cheap and thoroughly enjoyable night.

My father in law, a Boro fan like my wife, fell out of love going to Boro games for a time about 20 years ago. He got rid of his season ticket, and instead went to the Billingham games, which he could enjoy in much the same way as my son and I did last night. After a few years of enjoying the game for what it was, and with Boro newly promoted back to the PL, he and his wife got themselves Boro season tickets again and have carried on going ever since.

I guess with all the stuff that goes on around football in the PL, we just need the occasional opportunity to be reminded why we love the game, and what watching a traditional game feels like.

 

[theweave]

Sportwashing.

Of course it is but if they can get everyone tuning in to see their league, effectively a 'super league' then that's way more beneficial than an English team they own being successful

 

[Frank Lincoln]

While I am personally disappointed in the way that Wolves voted, it was always very likely that they do so. I don’t think Newcastle United having Neves for a few months had any bearing on the decision. Fosun clearly looking long term.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

The Athletic's take

Wolves have also explored partner clubs in recent years but have no formal partnerships and their motivations are unknown. Their owners are Fosun Group, while Fosun chairman Guo Guangchang’s wife Jenny is the majority shareholder of Switzerland’s Grasshoppers Zurich.

Premier League clubs vote against related-party loan ban

Premier League clubs have voted against a proposal to fast-track a ban on loan moves for players moving into England’s top flight between associated clubs in the January transfer window. The Athletic reported earlier this month that all 20 clubs were to vote on the proposed ban at the next...

theathletic.com

They've got 8 votes against btw, Burnley in addition to the ones listed above. It's all so leaky I don't know why they just can't be transparent.

 

[Ned]

Have to say, having gone to watch Horsham v Margate last night, I have a lot of sympathy for that comment. Standing there with my son and five hundred or so fans, beer in hand, watching the game from a couple of feet from the edge of the pitch on a cold, dry November night, it reminded me why the game is so good. The ref was rubbish, buying Margate’s frequent dives to win fouls, but there was no VAR to cause delay or confusion. It wasn’t a great game, but our local team Horsham, dominated and Margate had clearly come for a draw, but we got an 87th min winner right in front of the “Lardy Army”. Easy and very quick trip home. All made for a cheap and thoroughly enjoyable night.

My father in law, a Boro fan like my wife, fell out of love going to Boro games for a time about 20 years ago. He got rid of his season ticket, and instead went to the Billingham games, which he could enjoy in much the same way as my son and I did last night. After a few years of enjoying the game for what it was, and with Boro newly promoted back to the PL, he and his wife got themselves Boro season tickets again and have carried on going ever since.

I guess with all the stuff that goes on around football in the PL, we just need the occasional opportunity to be reminded why we love the game, and what watching a traditional game feels like.

One of my mates played for Horsham when they had that run in the cup where they drew Swansea. A boring, irrelevant but true story.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

While I am personally disappointed in the way that Wolves voted, it was always very likely that they do so. I don’t think Newcastle United having Neves for a few months had any bearing on the decision. Fosun clearly looking long term.

Frankly we may already know Neves is not interested in coming back to the PL in January on a loan, so it may be irrelevant to us in that respect.

 

[SA Wolf]

Just wish Wolves (and the other clubs) would explain why they voted as they did. It would end countless speculation and would indicate their future intentions. Of course, they won't as vested interests seem prominent.

 

[Sedgers]

No one should be surprised by the questionable decisions of Chinese and Saudi owners. Supporting a club that's owned by countries that don't have a functioning democracy is like having a son that committed a terrible crime; as much as you defend them in public because you love them you can't forget the terrible things they've done. And it hurts.

 

[Flump]

No one should be surprised by the questionable decisions of Chinese and Saudi owners. Supporting a club that's owned by countries that don't have a functioning democracy is like having a son that committed a terrible crime; as much as you defend them in public because you love them you can't forget the terrible things they've done. And it hurts.

I hope no-one thinks I approve of every decision the British Government makes, just because I'm a citizen.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Have to say, having gone to watch Horsham v Margate last night, I have a lot of sympathy for that comment. Standing there with my son and five hundred or so fans, beer in hand, watching the game from a couple of feet from the edge of the pitch on a cold, dry November night, it reminded me why the game is so good. The ref was rubbish, buying Margate’s frequent dives to win fouls, but there was no VAR to cause delay or confusion. It wasn’t a great game, but our local team Horsham, dominated and Margate had clearly come for a draw, but we got an 87th min winner right in front of the “Lardy Army”. Easy and very quick trip home. All made for a cheap and thoroughly enjoyable night.

My father in law, a Boro fan like my wife, fell out of love going to Boro games for a time about 20 years ago. He got rid of his season ticket, and instead went to the Billingham games, which he could enjoy in much the same way as my son and I did last night. After a few years of enjoying the game for what it was, and with Boro newly promoted back to the PL, he and his wife got themselves Boro season tickets again and have carried on going ever since.

I guess with all the stuff that goes on around football in the PL, we just need the occasional opportunity to be reminded why we love the game, and what watching a traditional game feels like.

I do both, I watch the wolves on my Season ticket and watch Halesowen town when I can. I just try not to compare the two as it’s just so different. As you say it’s nice to have a beer on a terrace and pay £10 to get in (also nice that if they lose it doesn’t ruin my weekend) but then the level is the level. You aren’t seeing players like Neto, Ait Nouri etc and opponents like City. I appreciate both levels for different reasons.

My second passion is boxing and that’s the same, I appreciate going to see amateurs at a local town hall but I also appreciate seeing a title fight at Wembley.

 

[Oliwolf44]

Its all just self-interest. Everyone greedy and just wants whatever benefits them at the detriment to football ecosystem. Onto the next one

 

[Sedgers]

I hope no-one thinks I approve of every decision the British Government makes, just because I'm a citizen.

I think you'd have to be very immature to believe that anyone thinks that every action of a government is approved by every voter wouldn't you? I mean that's just daft. The point is that our government is freely elected and accountable.

 

[wwbug]

If its a way around FFP ( or UFP - unfair financial play ) can you blame smaller clubs for wanting to even the playing field ?
To unfreeze the big clubs hold on players.
Fosun obviously think it's to our benefit. (Selling and perhaps borrowing players)

 

[hollo]

No one should be surprised by the questionable decisions of Chinese and Saudi owners. Supporting a club that's owned by countries that don't have a functioning democracy is like having a son that committed a terrible crime; as much as you defend them in public because you love them you can't forget the terrible things they've done. And it hurts.

As long as the owner is putting money into our club i don't care where it comes from. We really need the ground rebuilt and if a change in ownership from chinese to saudi is the solution then that's great. The only stipulation is that the capacity is bigger than villa's.

 

[waggys left foot]

Athletic say Neves will stay in Saudi and won't go out on loan ?

 

[AndyWolves]

I'm choosing to view this positively and think that fosun will look to exploit this in the near future

 

[Boss Hogg]

I'm choosing to view this positively and think that fosun will look to exploit this in the near future

The ex-Celtic Jota maybe??

 

[Flump]

I think you'd have to be very immature to believe that anyone thinks that every action of a government is approved by every voter wouldn't you? I mean that's just daft. The point is that our government is freely elected and accountable.

Well, I don't see how all Chinese people are responsible for their lack of democracy. I don't see supporting Wolves as being analogous to a "son that committed a terrible crime".

In Newcastle's case that is a much fairer comparison, as Saudi Arabia's government effectively owns the club.

 

[Sedgers]

Well, I don't see how all Chinese people are responsible for their lack of democracy. I don't see supporting Wolves as being analogous to a "son that committed a terrible crime".

In Newcastle's case that is a much fairer comparison, as Saudi Arabia's government effectively owns the club.

I think you're being naive if you think Wolves Chinese ownership isn't sanctioned by the Chinese state.

 

[wwbug]

It’s not beneficial to wolves but it is to Fosun and Gestifute. Saudi is the new cash cow and mendes is heavily involved so we were always going to vote that way.

Though I wouldn’t count against Guedes, Silva, Sa, Podence going over there and us getting way above their value.

Do you think we are that mutually exclusive ?

 

[WolfLing]

I'm choosing to view this positively and think that fosun will look to exploit this in the near future

We haven't had anyone on loan from Saudi yet, but we've already exploited their rise in prominence.

Absolutely no way we get £45m for Neves with 1 year left on his deal from anywhere else but Saudi.

Fosun are no fools. The influx on money to the game from Saudi clubs is a huge potential cash-cow for clubs of our size, especially with the links we have to Mendes.

Let's face it, this ban was badged up as clubs with links to other clubs, but was purely aimed at Saudi.

Newcastle and Sheffield United were obviously going to vote against it due to Saudi connections.

City and Chelsea too, given their network of clubs.

I'm surprised Palace didn't given they are owned by the same holding company as Lyon and could have benefitted from loans between the clubs in the future.

I think we've voted politicly, to appease the Saudi pay-masters.

Everton and Forest are probably in a position where they need to sell some dead-wood to Saudi in the very near future to satisfy FFP, so that's understandable.

Burnley the only odd one for me.

 

[wwbug]

I read an article that said The Saudis could buy every club in Europe and it would only register as a small blip on their Sovereign wealth funds.