Time for legal advice and action v PGMOL

[floydstreet]

Genuinely had to wait until today to post and still fuming

A few thoughts

First half decent but we have to be more clinical

Second half shocking, but we should have been finishing the game with one point and moaning about an abject second half

Anyone who criticised the club having a fire sale of players in the summer think again. Do you honestly believe with the current evidence infront of you that if wolves breached FFP rules they would be in years or dispute, or 20 point ban instantly. I think sadly we all know the answer here

On the referee. You have var to help you, therefore only call a pen if categorically certain. Then if you’ve missed it var can intervene. The fact he stood there after the match saying it was a penalty shows the greatest arrogance possible and equally shows the characters we have in charge. I feel this is part of the issue. Big ego, poor character, control freaks and guess what inability to show humility, admit they are wrong or suggest their colleagues are wrong. The character is terrible.

Baldock like schar the week before should face a two match ban, cheating pure and simple and he also should have been sent off already anyway.

Var - if that isn’t clewr and obvious nothing is.

It’s a worrying pattern that Newcastle seem to have var decisions their way (wolves and arsenal plus guimares has dodged two red cards now). I wonder why

I can only deduce the Pgmol and prem league have minimal sympathy or like of wolves. Because for twelve months they are too quick to give big decisions against us and incapable of overturning when clearly wrong (according to football neutrals not wolves fans).

All the press is aboit arsenal, but this is 4 games this season where we’ve lost points because of appalling var decisions. I have no idea what we can do, but it smells bad

 

[WWFC4EVA]

Genuinely had to wait until today to post and still fuming

A few thoughts

First half decent but we have to be more clinical

Second half shocking, but we should have been finishing the game with one point and moaning about an abject second half

Anyone who criticised the club having a fire sale of players in the summer think again. Do you honestly believe with the current evidence infront of you that if wolves breached FFP rules they would be in years or dispute, or 20 point ban instantly. I think sadly we all know the answer here

On the referee. You have var to help you, therefore only call a pen if categorically certain. Then if you’ve missed it var can intervene. The fact he stood there after the match saying it was a penalty shows the greatest arrogance possible and equally shows the characters we have in charge. I feel this is part of the issue. Big ego, poor character, control freaks and guess what inability to show humility, admit they are wrong or suggest their colleagues are wrong. The character is terrible.

Baldock like schar the week before should face a two match ban, cheating pure and simple and he also should have been sent off already anyway.

Var - if that isn’t clewr and obvious nothing is.

It’s a worrying pattern that Newcastle seem to have var decisions their way (wolves and arsenal plus guimares has dodged two red cards now). I wonder why

I can only deduce the Pgmol and prem league have minimal sympathy or like of wolves. Because for twelve months they are too quick to give big decisions against us and incapable of overturning when clearly wrong (according to football neutrals not wolves fans).

All the press is aboit arsenal, but this is 4 games this season where we’ve lost points because of appalling var decisions. I have no idea what we can do, but it smells bad

I've genuinely come to the conclusion that our ownership is a big problem within those that run the Premier league.
I'm of the opinion that our owners are only too aware of it aswell, hence the running around trying to get our FFP ship in order over the summer, whilst all around seemingly continued to sail close to the wind, with a total disregard for FFP.
Something is massively off!

 

[Contrarian]

Is the rule actually that ANY contact, however slight, in the penalty area, must be a penalty? Because that's exactly how it looks in our last two matches. The PGMOL need to be clear on this. Perhaps this is something our club could formally ask the PGMOL and make public.

For all that VAR is awful, it seems to have really highlighted what an absolute mess the rules of football are. And have been for a long time. Combine that with inconsistent referee interpretation of them. For one of the most lucrative leagues in the world, in any sport, it's appalling. Any weekend, you could pick 2 close to identical incidents in Premier League matches and find referees giving one as a foul, while ignoring the other.

We were told that VAR would get rid of the perpetual squabbling about referee decisions after a match, but it's made it worse.

What I don't get is how it used to be that a "benefit of the doubt" was applied , especially for crucial decisions, like match winning penalties deep into injury time. Yet refs seem to have gone the other way and are *more* likely to give a penalty, when there is doubt.

 

[Wall heath Wanderer]

Two great examples of how we are refereed differently to others in recent times I can think of are a penalty given for man city against us when it was a slight brush on the side of a boot by our players side of his boot, and then us not being given a penalty when an arsenal defender trod on Traores foot.

There are obviously many more examples, but the contrast in those two incidents stick with me.

 

[floydstreet]

I've genuinely come to the conclusion that our ownership is a big problem within those that run the Premier league.
I'm of the opinion that our owners are only too aware of it aswell, hence the running around trying to get our FFP ship in order over the summer, whilst all around seemingly continued to sail close to the wind, with a total disregard for FFP.
Something is massively off!

I am 100% confident if we hadn’t got in FFP order, the premier league would nail us instantly. Whilst Everton city etc carry on.
But to be fair our owners aren’t of the moral high ground of city and Newcastle

 

[MattH]

Needs to start with Webb resigning/getting sacked.

Yup. He's somehow managed to make things even worse than they were last season. VAR has done the precise opposite of what it was intended to. I hope PMGOL get sued.

 

[TheConcourse]

Should never have been introduced in its present form.

On field ref should be in complete control. Makes decision. Manager on sidelines has 10s to decide whether to challenge a decision (goal, penalty, red card. offside, corner, throw-in, whatever). Allowed ONE incorrect challenge each half.

NO Stockley Park
NO 'drawing lines'
NO super slo-mo
NO PGMOL intervention
NO Howard Webb

Just ref goes to monitor and watches incident being challenged and HE decides if on reflection he sticks or changes. HE decides if an error has been made. And then HE lives with the consequences if subsequent analysis after the game shows he was pig-headed and wouldn't;t change an obvious error ... and then gets sacked - or at least suspended for a month.

This would enhance the game too IMO. Adds another layer of interest.

 

[old wittonian]

Time for a shot across their bows with the threat of legal action. To remind them Fosun have more money than them. That's what PSG did.

 

[theweave]

Is the rule actually that ANY contact, however slight, in the penalty area, must be a penalty? Because that's exactly how it looks in our last two matches. The PGMOL need to be clear on this. Perhaps this is something our club could formally ask the PGMOL and make public.

For all that VAR is awful, it seems to have really highlighted what an absolute mess the rules of football are. And have been for a long time. Combine that with inconsistent referee interpretation of them. For one of the most lucrative leagues in the world, in any sport, it's appalling. Any weekend, you could pick 2 close to identical incidents in Premier League matches and find referees giving one as a foul, while ignoring the other.

We were told that VAR would get rid of the perpetual squabbling about referee decisions after a match, but it's made it worse.

What I don't get is how it used to be that a "benefit of the doubt" was applied , especially for crucial decisions, like match winning penalties deep into injury time. Yet refs seem to have gone the other way and are *more* likely to give a penalty, when there is doubt.

If that were the rule we'd of had a penalty on Sasa last week. Never a penalty but there is contact

 

[Brixton Wanderer]

https://x.com/cj_7171/status/1721103718521696603?s=46

A thread full of major incidents.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Cool. What evidence you got of corruption?

What evidence do you have there's no corruption?

It's the God argument. You're asking us to prove the non existence of something, there's zero evidence of existing.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

if VAR was scrapped the on field decisions would still stand and the outcome would be the same. The officials in the VAR room that fail to overturn the decisions should be sacked not the refs.

It depends on whether the referee is choosing to ignore the advice of the VAR.

Are we high profile enough to have the audio released of the conversation had between them?

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

We have had a really bad rub of the green (again) … but we should focus on our football. The rest will take care of itself.

We're currently six points worse off than we should be. The rest won't take care of itself while it's officiated by the sub standard PGMOL.

Howard Webb has made a bad situation worse during his tenure. He should resign for a start.

 

[Bognor_Wolf]

Not sure if legal action is right but surely now is the time we get an official statement from the club regarding all these unacceptable decisions over the second half of last season and how it has continued into this one?

We as Wolves fans know how many big errors we have had now it is time to let everyone else who isn't aware know and a official statement like we saw with Liverpool gets people talking!

Arsenal have just released one now to back up Arteta, still nothing from Wolves feel it's time now as a club we say something!

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Is the rule actually that ANY contact, however slight, in the penalty area, must be a penalty? Because that's exactly how it looks in our last two matches. The PGMOL need to be clear on this. Perhaps this is something our club could formally ask the PGMOL and make public.

For all that VAR is awful, it seems to have really highlighted what an absolute mess the rules of football are. And have been for a long time. Combine that with inconsistent referee interpretation of them. For one of the most lucrative leagues in the world, in any sport, it's appalling. Any weekend, you could pick 2 close to identical incidents in Premier League matches and find referees giving one as a foul, while ignoring the other.

We were told that VAR would get rid of the perpetual squabbling about referee decisions after a match, but it's made it worse.

What I don't get is how it used to be that a "benefit of the doubt" was applied , especially for crucial decisions, like match winning penalties deep into injury time. Yet refs seem to have gone the other way and are *more* likely to give a penalty, when there is doubt.

Unless it’s the Wolves attacking in the box, in which case the opposition keeper can assault our strikers with impunity. Happened to Raul and to Sasa.

****ing pathetic isn’t it?

 

[Brixton Wanderer]

Another consideration with the ‘it will even itself out argument’ is what decisions (if any) we get in our favour.

There’s no point (for example) VAR backing us with a decision when say 3-0 down to City with a couple mins to go.

That scenario isn’t comparable to the game changing decisions/mistakes that have gone against us already, though it would be chalked up as a +1 in terms of decisions, on paper.

 

[steve vena]

Time for the club & fans to put the pressure on.

CLEAR CORRUPTION.

The FA need to address these issues.

It’s not 1 bad decision it’s every single game we’re playing. There are big match changing decisions going against us!!

Happens next week. Take the players off the pitch and abandon the game. That will show them

We would lose three points and then be a laughing stock.
Has any team walked off ever?

 

[Jefe]

They're laughing at us though, and this sort of talk just makes them laugh harder.

The year is 2030 and Wolves fans are still waiting for these decisions to ‘balance themselves out’

This is why what has happened to Wolves cannot be explained away by garden variety incompetence. If it where, it would indeed 'balance out' by the law of averages. Since VAR has come in four years ago, I can only think of two dodgy ones that went our way - Luiz's tiny accidental clip of Jose's heel given as a red and upheld, and Sa cleaned out Bamford, Onana-style. Besides those two, it has been one way traffic for several years now.

I can only conclude a negative bias / antipathy from the officials for Wolves, which has only worsened since Lopetegui continually criticised them last season. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the rate of stinkers has reached critical mass since O'Neil's mockery of refereeing standards. Wolves criticise refs, they double down. Maybe PGMOL will back down to a giant like Liverpool, but little old Wolves are fair game it seems.

 

[peter&thewolf]

This obvious bias/corruption is now beyond comprehension its time for the club to act and make an official complaint, I'm convinced it's bent.

Sorry Arctic I didn't read your post, just saw it now

 

[lobodelsur]

For me, I also don’t think the VAR officials should be announced in advance of games as they are now as it increases the risk of corruption, perceived or otherwise. For weekend games, I’d be making sure VAR officials report into Stockley Park in the morning, hand in their phones and get randomly assigned games shortly before kick-off to improve perception of integrity.

This I like.

 

[lobodelsur]

Has any team walked off ever?

Can't think of one, but maybe it's time to do a 'Colin'.
Didn't Warnock try, when Sheff Utd manager (v the boggies) to get 4 players sent off thus forcing the referee to abandon the match (8 players minimum needed) ? Next time we get an atrocious decision we should have 4 players already nominated to get sent off for protesting. Not for fouls or 2nd yellows etc, but simply for protesting the decision. That should focus a few minds.

 

[GigaWolf]

if VAR was scrapped the on field decisions would still stand and the outcome would be the same. The officials in the VAR room that fail to overturn the decisions should be sacked not the refs.

but they are not getting the decisions right at the moment anyway so they might as well go back to the old ways again

 

[GigaWolf]

Yup. He's somehow managed to make things even worse than they were last season. VAR has done the precise opposite of what it was intended to. I hope PMGOL get sued.

you are correct. just look at the increase in apologies that have been made this year alone

 

[Contrarian]

Interesting that the Big 6 make up 30% of the clubs in the league, yet account for 73% of the "Favoured teams" by VAR in that formal apology list.

Surely that's evidence of a Big 6 bias? If VAR was random errors, you 'd expect a more even distribution of the favoured clubs.

 

[Flump]

What evidence do you have there's no corruption?

It's the God argument. You're asking us to prove the non existence of something, there's zero evidence of existing.

This is a thread asking for legal action... whining about legal action when there is literally not one piece of evidence, is a good way to make yourself look stupid.

 

[Tezthewolvesfan]

This is a thread asking for legal action... whining about legal action when there is literally not one piece of evidence, is a good way to make yourself look stupid.

What do you call it then?.

 

[Flump]

What do you call it then?.

Refereeing is difficult
Currently, they're not doing it well
Exacerbated by people not watching enough non-Wolves games to realise that they're trying not to overturn as much now

 

[The House of Wolves]

Refereeing is difficult
Currently, they're not doing it well
Exacerbated by people not watching enough non-Wolves games to realise that they're trying not to overturn as much now

So are most peoples jobs, and when we royally balls things up, we get properly disciplined/scrutinised for it.

I’ll never understand these referee apologists. They are paid very well and should be expected to do a better job than the current shambles they’re serving up ffs.

 

[SuperGran]

One thing not mentioned apart from the two points we lost due to the non penalty is the knock on affect on the other teams at the bottom when Sheffield United get awarded 3 points.

 

[Flump]

So are most peoples jobs, and when we royally balls things up, we get properly disciplined/scrutinised for it.

I’ll never understand these referee apologists. They are paid very well and should be expected to do a better job than the current shambles they’re serving up ffs.

I'm sure they do get performance managed, but if you want to compare it to other workplaces, then it should be blatantly obvious why it's not done publicly.

What salary do you think refs should have?!

 

[The House of Wolves]

What salary do you think refs should have?!

I have no opinion on what they are paid, or whether they should be paid more, less or remain on the the same pay packet.

What I do know however, is that the standard of refereeing in this country at the moment is at a complete all time low, and is absolutely ruining our love of the beautiful game.

They are utterly shambolic.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

This is a thread asking for legal action... whining about legal action when there is literally not one piece of evidence, is a good way to make yourself look stupid.

To take legal action, you need evidence. If you just stick your head in the ground and keep saying it’s just bad luck, incompetence, or whatever, then there will never be an investigation to determine why decisions are poor, and why there is a statistical bias against some clubs. It’s not stupid to call for an investigation, it is to call for legal action without evidence.

 

[Flump]

I have no opinion on what they are paid, or whether they should be paid more, less or remain on the the same pay packet.

You're the one who brought up the fact that they're "very well paid"!

 

[SoCal_Wolf]

Watch this video for how bias works among refs. The NBA is a huge money making franchise—we can all agree on that. Now, we know that Tim Donaghy was convicted of gambling on NBA games. And I’m not necessarily saying that PGMOL refs are gambling on games; however; notice how Donaghy makes use of the knowledge that refs have favorites (i.e., biases) to bet for/against teams! In fact, you can see that the refs (and their supervisor) condoned “punishing” Iverson because he supposedly threatened one of them. They colluded against him and deliberately did not call any debatable fouls against him and they called debatable infractions on him.

Let’s apply that with Wolves starting when Nuno called out that asshole, Lee Mason. See here: Nuno lashes out at referee Mason after Burnley tame Wolves to climb table | Premier League | The Guardian
We embarrassed one of their own. It’s happened several times since then where refs have been called out, demoted, made to look bad. You think that the refs like that? Absolutely not. They no doubt have a negative view of Wolves and they will never…ever…give us the benefit of the doubt. Any debatable calls will go against us. Count on it.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

I'd be fully behind the team walking off pitch the next time the refs stupidity is on full display.

Although I would love to see this happen it would backfire on us and play into the hands of the establisment as they would have grounds to severely punish us for not fulfilling a fixture.
However I would be behind taking legal action. We would need to good laawyer who could see how we would be able to present a good case.
Maybe it could be fraud as the paying fans hand over their money to see a match expecting to see the match fairly officiated which by the regularity of contraversial decisions it clearly is not.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

So are most peoples jobs, and when we royally balls things up, we get properly disciplined/scrutinised for it.

I’ll never understand these referee apologists. They are paid very well and should be expected to do a better job than the current shambles they’re serving up ffs.

I can forgive a referee for being conned by a dive. I can't forgive a whole team of officials with the benefit of technology for allowing the cheating divers to prosper.

I can't forgive them for ignoring a stonewall assault by a GK on our striker, nor can I forgive them for ignoring their own guidelines about handballs after ricochets and awarding a penalty regardless.

They're a law unto themselves who act with impunity. It stinks and it needs to end.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Pitchforks at the ready.

You’ll be holding them a long time unless somebody actually does something.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Yes the system needs to be changed, but how many more points do we have to lose in the meantime?!

It’s no surprise to me that “little old Wolves” have been ****ed over 4 times (FOUR TIMES!) in 11 games by referees/VAR, but the biggest noise about it this season was when Liverpool and now Arsenal have been done over.

Something has to change now. And it’s probably got to come from the fans.

Sorry, although you say something has to change, sadly we all know that nothing will and nearly every week somebody will start another VAR thread.

…………unless fans get so sick and tired of it that they actually try to fix it.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Scrapping VAR would still mean both those penalties were given.

Exactly.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Although I would love to see this happen it would backfire on us and play into the hands of the establisment as they would have grounds to severely punish us for not fulfilling a fixture.
However I would be behind taking legal action. We would need to good laawyer who could see how we would be able to present a good case.
Maybe it could be fraud as the paying fans hand over their money to see a match expecting to see the match fairly officiated which by the regularity of contraversial decisions it clearly is not.

I wonder if any competent lawyer could find enough evidence/stats/videos/witnesses to even begin to accept the case.