The 'we haven't signed a CB in years' myth

[KBWWFC]

No it doesn't highlight a lack of ambition. If you have someone like Kilman who is potentially good enough to be an England international, why on earth would you spend 30 mil on someone else to stunt his growth ?
We spent 35 mil on Fabio - if that doesnt spell ambition, what does ? And we were probably wrong too.
Money doesn't always buy happiness.

You're relying on your players growing at a rate with no decline (which comes naturally with age), and that other players do not develop at a similar / faster rate.

If you stand still, you fall behind by virtue of other teams spending money and improving their squad.

Have our centre backs improved over time or have they declined?

The Fabio comparison doesn't hold water, we're in an era where championship clubs can command 40M+ for their players, if we got relegated and Fabio had a breakout season, then they would see a return on the investment. It's relatively safe.

In terms of expenditure, teams that spent less than 10M (excluding Chelsea due to embargo and the fact that they literally signed Thiago Silva):

Cardiff
Sheffield United
Newcastle
Norwich
Huddersfield
WBA
Watford
Wolves

 

[Jamwolf]

This makes sense in theory, but we made an attempt to sign Kieffer Moore which would have stunted Fabio's growth.

The greatest disappointment of the transfer window was that we actually bid for this guy !

 

[goldeneyed]

The rise of Kilman has been a game changer for me and if Mosquera can fulfil the early glimmerings of promise he has shown we will be fine for now. Yes a quality addition would have been great but cm far mor important and a serious gap now.

 

[Monketron]

Wolves have pretty much openly shown they have been after a big signing CB for years now. We just keep getting knocked back or priced out.

 

[WolfLing]

Part of the problem up top is that we only have 3 out and out attacking players in the team because we play with 3 centre backs.

We play with 3 centre backs because arguably none of our current crop are good enough to play in a back 4.

So playing with 3 centre backs is good for us defensively, but no good for us going forward.

If we could play with 4 at the back, we could have another striker alongside Raul or a creative number 10 in behind him.

I agree, we don’t need another centre back on top of the ones we have. We need to get rid of some of the ones we have and upgrade.

A first choice pairing of Caleta-Car and Botman would have been something dreams are made of. Coady and Kilman are adequate deputies, with Mosquera as a good squad prospect.

 

[Jefe]

I think when people say we haven't replaced Bennett, they mean we haven't replaced his instincts as a natural centre back. He is a dye-in-the-wool, defender's defender. If he had the composure on the ball that say Kilman does, he would have been viewed as our best player at the back and undoubtedly a top half PL centre half IMO. That's how much I rated Bennett's influence over the team purely from a defensive point of view.

 

[Sanewolf]

Why have Man Utd signed Varane when Maguire and Lindelof formed a good partnership last year?

Only 3 teams conceded less than Utd last year and finished in the premier league so why did they want to sign a CB?

Answer is because they want to progress and get better, 2nd place is not good enough for the club so they have to always look at areas to improve.

I know we are not Man Utd but your argument that we dont need a CB because Kilman has progressed well isnt something I can agree with.

 

[forge]

'We haven't signed CB since promotion'
'Never replaced Bennett'

Sound familiar?

1. Marcal was bought in as LCB (bruno playing him LWB).
2. Kilman has progressed to be a first team player.
3. We have signed Mosquera

I don't get why people keep saying we need a CB. We have conceded 3 goals in 3 games against some of the top teams. It's the other end of the pitch that has cost us.

CBs: Boly Coady Kilman Mosquera Saiss
Arguable CBs: Marcal Hoever
I'm not including Donk as I dont want to see that.

WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER CB!!!!!!!!

I know you want upgrades but I would have took 2 CMs over 1 CM and 1CB in that window

You are so unbelievably deluded if you seriously think that we do not need a CB. Acon aside these defenders r of championship quality and get beat every which way. Mb a rewatch of the multiple times we lost 4-0 last season would do u some good

 

[exiled_wolf]

Disagree with the original poster tbh. The CBs we have are fine but one quality upgrade has been needed for a while. You can't count Mosquera either. He was surely bought as one for the future.

Despite showing good physical attributes in friendlies he's young, green and very raw. Let's see how his positioning is against a savvy, experienced PL forward first. Plus, he's well known to have a red card in him. Very, very early days with the kid.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

1. Marcal was bought in as LCB (bruno playing him LWB).
2. Kilman has progressed to be a first team player.
3. We have signed Mosquera

...........................................................


Have to say also that you didn't exactly dispel the myth much. Marcal NO, Kilman NO, Mosquera POSSIBLY

The way you start of the title you would think we have been all over CBs in recent years

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

Part of the problem up top is that we only have 3 out and out attacking players in the team because we play with 3 centre backs.

We play with 3 centre backs because arguably none of our current crop are good enough to play in a back 4.

So playing with 3 centre backs is good for us defensively, but no good for us going forward.

If we could play with 4 at the back, we could have another striker alongside Raul or a creative number 10 in behind him.

I agree, we don’t need another centre back on top of the ones we have. We need to get rid of some of the ones we have and upgrade.

A first choice pairing of Caleta-Car and Botman would have been something dreams are made of. Coady and Kilman are adequate deputies, with Mosquera as a good squad prospect.

Bingo, but some don't get it

 

[wwbug]

Agree with the opening post .
There are natural goal scorers and we dont have enough.
List the players that can play central defence , more than half a dozen.
List natural goal scorers . May be one if fit. Two if we are lucky.

 

[JOSWolf]

Bingo, but some don't get it

Agree. Why do we all think Bruno had to stop playing 4 at the back in pre season?

 

[Milijas]

You are so unbelievably deluded if you seriously think that we do not need a CB. Acon aside these defenders r of championship quality and get beat every which way. Mb a rewatch of the multiple times we lost 4-0 last season would do u some good

Championship at best? That's why we have conceded 3 goals in 3 games against top 4 contenders and let's face it the Leicester goal was only legitimate one, not down to poor reffing.
Championship quality? Coady's away with england and he is arguably one of our worse defenders.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Agree. Why do we all think Bruno had to stop playing 4 at the back in pre season?

Obviously it's just supposition, but if Bruno REALLY wanted to play 4 at the back, I'd have thought he would have given it longer than a half against Las Palma's from an unfit team.

I just don't think Wolves look good playing 4 at the back. We looked our best in the league with the 3 ATB and 2 attackers.

Obviously, we could buy specialist CBs for a 4 ATB formation, but then we sacrifice so much in terms of squad construct.

I don't ever feel confident seeing Wolves in a 4, and I wouldn't until we got a CM like Renato Sanches (an all action type midfielder with the legs to help out yet still contribute to attack).

Unless the board give Bruno 100 million to spend on CB/CM (he struggled to get 10 million, so that's not going to happen), he has to make the best of the squad he has available and that squad is suited to 3 at the back.

 

[Huyton W88lvo]

Conceding 3 goals in our first three games isn’t the problem and many of us before the season had started would have said conceding a goal a game against 3 top sides would be very good. We have undoubtedly played well but so did Fulham in many of their games last season . We are crying out for an unjust 1-0 win just like the three that have been inflicted on us but surely if we keep up the level of performance results have to turn.

 

[JOSWolf]

Championship at best? That's why we have conceded 3 goals in 3 games against top 4 contenders and let's face it the Leicester goal was only legitimate one, not down to poor reffing.
Championship quality? Coady's away with england and he is arguably one of our worse defenders.

Why cant we play 4 at the back?

 

[Milijas]

Why cant we play 4 at the

Why cant we play 4 at the back?

Why do we need too?

 

[Contrarian]

'We haven't signed CB since promotion'
'Never replaced Bennett'

Sound familiar?

1. Marcal was bought in as LCB (bruno playing him LWB).
2. Kilman has progressed to be a first team player.
3. We have signed Mosquera

I don't get why people keep saying we need a CB. We have conceded 3 goals in 3 games against some of the top teams. It's the other end of the pitch that has cost us.

CBs: Boly Coady Kilman Mosquera Saiss
Arguable CBs: Marcal Hoever
I'm not including Donk as I dont want to see that.

WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER CB!!!!!!!!

I know you want upgrades but I would have took 2 CMs over 1 CM and 1CB in that window

It's not the quantity, it's the quality. Though I do agree totally with your general gist. That we have enough central defenders who can do a job at this level. More than enough. The problem is up the other end, we have only one clinical finisher in the squad.

 

[Milijas]

1. Marcal was bought in as LCB (bruno playing him LWB).
2. Kilman has progressed to be a first team player.
3. We have signed Mosquera

...........................................................


Have to say also that you didn't exactly dispel the myth much. Marcal NO, Kilman NO, Mosquera POSSIBLY

The way you start of the title you would think we have been all over CBs in recent years

Yes fair point regarding the title. I was going to list the fact that we signed Vallejo aswell but then decided best not too and dendonker was bought to replace Bennett.

 

[TheConcourse]

Kind of agree with the comments about switching to a back four.. might not even be necessary.

Plus Semedo and RAN are probably more comfortable offensively, so you’d have to go out and sign new FBs too.

 

[Contrarian]

It's the tactical flexibility we could have had if we had recruited a centre back and a centre midfielder (and kept MGW) that is now missing from our armoury, Bruno could have gone 4 at the back, a 3 or 2 man midfield etc, now we are basically being forced to stick with 5 at the back. When I think of the options Bruno could have had with just those 2 signing it makes me angry to think that we have neglected those key positions yet again.

But in 3 league matches against top sides, we are conceding very little. Our central defence is not being shown up. We are creating more than anyone other than Man City and Liverpool. Goal scoring is our problem #1. And strengthening the central defence will not fix that. Even top 6 teams concede a goal a game. It shouldn't be a big deal.

Given that 1 of the 3 conceded was an iffy penalty, one from a dubious decision against us and the other a top drawer finish, just where is the actual evidence of the CURRENT team's defence being weak? Last season was last season and we have changed tack, holding the ball much higher up the pitch, taking pressure off the defence. On the other hand, we simply should have scored more. With the chances we've made, any other team in the league would have had at least a goal or 2 by now.

Last season, we didn't create much, fair enough. This season is quite different. I think many are stuck in Nuno-ball mode In my view, back then, our tactic was to sit deep, let the opponents have the ball without pressure until well inside our half. This does put huge pressure on defenders as they will be defending for 70% at least of the match. One mistake and you aren't going to win, the way we played. It has surprised me as I thought getting the midfield and forwards much higher up the pitch would mean our defence would be exposed and Leicester/Spurs/Man U would rip us apart. Myself and several others warned of us probably conceded 3 or 4 in each of those. I really thought that yes, we'd score more, but end up losing 3-1 or 4-1. Until we had pacey, top quality defenders. However, it just hasn't panned out that way at all! Instead, we are limiting opponents while creating a bucket load and missing chance after chance.

Of course, it could be just an unlucky burst, the next 2 matches will reveal a lot more about where we're heading. In terms of central defenders, what I think we need more than anything, is someone who can chip in with a goal from set pieces, like Boly used to.

 

[JOSWolf]

Why do we need too?

Bruno prefers to.

 

[Leominster_Wolf]

But in 3 league matches against top sides, we are conceding very little. Our central defence is not being shown up. We are creating more than anyone other than Man City and Liverpool. Goal scoring is our problem #1. And strengthening the central defence will not fix that. Even top 6 teams concede a goal a game. It shouldn't be a big deal.

Given that 1 of the 3 conceded was an iffy penalty, one from a dubious decision against us and the other a top drawer finish, just where is the actual evidence of the CURRENT team's defence being weak? Last season was last season and we have changed tack, holding the ball much higher up the pitch, taking pressure off the defence. On the other hand, we simply should have scored more. With the chances we've made, any other team in the league would have had at least a goal or 2 by now.

Last season, we didn't create much, fair enough. This season is quite different. I think many are stuck in Nuno-ball mode In my view, back then, our tactic was to sit deep, let the opponents have the ball without pressure until well inside our half. This does put huge pressure on defenders as they will be defending for 70% at least of the match. One mistake and you aren't going to win, the way we played. It has surprised me as I thought getting the midfield and forwards much higher up the pitch would mean our defence would be exposed and Leicester/Spurs/Man U would rip us apart. Myself and several others warned of us probably conceded 3 or 4 in each of those. I really thought that yes, we'd score more, but end up losing 3-1 or 4-1. Until we had pacey, top quality defenders. However, it just hasn't panned out that way at all! Instead, we are limiting opponents while creating a bucket load and missing chance after chance.

Of course, it could be just an unlucky burst, the next 2 matches will reveal a lot more about where we're heading. In terms of central defenders, what I think we need more than anything, is someone who can chip in with a goal from set pieces, like Boly used to.

^^^^^^^^
This

 

[OLDGOLD]

Saiss isn’t good enough . He’s cost us the goal vs spurs , and he will cost us many more

coady, saiss, can’t play in a back 4 - which you would hope is Bruno’s favorited formation. Therefore , we are playing a back 3 and losing an attacker essentially due to their lack of ability . Holding us back

Kilman I’m happy with
Boly I’m happy with but injury prone
Mosquera looks good
Marcal isn’t ever played at centre back . Do think he should be, but don’t think he will

so we have 3 good enough cbs in a 2, 1 is injury prone and 1 the jury is out on.

This is the area where a top quality addition that Bruno wanted is evident. We may have loads of centre backs. But none would get in a top 6 side

Top six is a worry we don't have this season. We have plenty of centre backs good enough for 12th or better, including Saiss, if we had midfield options.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Top six is a worry we don't have this season. We have plenty of centre backs good enough for 12th or better, including Saiss, if we had midfield options.

And that’s the problem

if we don’t aim for top 6, we will lose our top players, and won’t ever encourage top players to come

this window is really the one for me where all momentum is lost in the project .

HOWEVER , I do have faith in Bruno that he can make us a quality side with the players we have IF we don’t get bad injuries

 

[OLDGOLD]

And that’s the problem

if we don’t aim for top 6, we will lose our top players, and won’t ever encourage top players to come

this window is really the one for me where all momentum is lost in the project .

HOWEVER , I do have faith in Bruno that he can make us a quality side with the players we have IF we don’t get bad injuries

Momentum was lost last season with Jiminez injury and Nuno beige ball, but sadly, only one player off having a real go at getting it back this season, and now things are at a real tipping point imo.

 

[maws]

And that’s the problem

if we don’t aim for top 6, we will lose our top players, and won’t ever encourage top players to come

this window is really the one for me where all momentum is lost in the project .

HOWEVER , I do have faith in Bruno that he can make us a quality side with the players we have IF we don’t get bad injuries

100% on all this

 

[WalsallWolf]

It is pretty straight forward, none of our defenders are good enough at doing there defensive responsibilities. You could factor in the wing backs into that too. What masks it, is playing with 5 at the back, simple as that.

 

[The Wolf In The North]

Round and round in circles, innit.

Play 3 CBs, you sacrifice the 10. The 9 falls back and does both the role of 9 and 10, and when he's the 10 there's no 9 in the box for the wide forwards and wing backs to hit. Stay as a 9 and you need a CM to play high but that exposes midfield. For three years we have had that empty crater in the key area of behind the 9.

The only solution, which to Bruno's credit he's trying, is to tuck the wide forwards in behind the 9 and have width through the wing backs, but the backs can't cross well enough when forward, and the wide CBs are vulnerable.

I personally think we'll click more if we can get Boly at left CB, Ait Nouri at LWB and drill Traore and Trincao into staying tucked, where both are incredibly dangerous, with Raul holding position and not dropping deep. We're getting there, but need the players.

We can play with 5, but all the danger currently comes through that weak channel between Saiss and Coady, where we come unstuck against pace, and attacks break down when Raul is sucked back into the pit in front of the opposition's CBs with no support.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

The rise of Kilman has been a game changer for me and if Mosquera can fulfil the early glimmerings of promise he has shown we will be fine for now. Yes a quality addition would have been great but cm far mor important and a serious gap now.

Honestly, given our season is already dead I would be more than happy to just go with Kilman and Mosquera and see if they have it or not. Stick Coady in between them if we must for the experience. Clear the club have thrown all their eggs in the two or three years from now basket with regards to signings so lets just go all in with that.

 

[QB Wolf]

We didn’t replace Bennett as a proper right sided centre back and still haven’t, we have two strong left sided ones, with Saiss as cover, and a good sweeper, but no true first team RCB, not seen Mosquera yet!

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

I would try

boly and kilman in a 2
Or boly and mosqeura
Or kilman and Mosquera

If we play 3 at back it does have to be ait nouri at lwb tho.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

I would try

boly and kilman in a 2
Or boly and mosqeura
Or kilman and Mosquera

If we play 3 at back it does have to be ait nouri at lwb tho.

Yeah agreed. Marcal is good but offers little going forward.