The Gary O’Neil humble pie safe space thread

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I don't really want to add to the largely unfounded speculation, masquerading as "fact", posted in these forum threads concerning Lopetegui and his relationship with Wolves, and I haven't had time to look back on your two possible scenarios, although I assume that one must have accepted Lopetegui's version of events as entirely accurate. However as you have invited me to put forward my own speculation, here goes. FOSUN had been rather dodgy in their relationship to FFP. This also was the case with a great many other clubs in the EPL, and indeed further down the "pyramid". Some time last year however, it became apparent to Wolves that flouting FFP could have serious consequences - perhaps the FA or some other body had sent the relevant clubs a warning on this, a warning which had teeth - see Everton. Hence the "fire sale" in the summer. The situation was so different, that Lopetegui decided to leave. As you say, this was quite understandable, and no one should blame him for doing so. However to do so at such short notice, just before the start of a new season - that's a different matter. As is circulating widely a version of events which has himself as a blameless shining hero.
As I said, the above is speculation, although I believe not entirely unfounded speculation, given the context of what has happened at Wolves over the last few seasons, and, as some posters have pointed out, some features of Lopetegui's behaviour during his career as manager/head coach.

Yes, well that was one of my two possible scenarios that I think fit the available information. A lot of people seem to forget that Lopetegui decided to leave over two weeks before the start of the season (obviously that's far from ideal), but agreed to keep working until the new manager was recruited. Again I think that is a well established truth.

 

[nomadwolf]

May have been said already...I heard/read that the FA/EPL, in May, had a meeting with several clubs, advising them, best meet FFP rules, or be chewing points loss like toffees.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

May have been said already...I heard/read that the FA/EPL, in May, had a meeting with several clubs, advising them, best meet FFP rules, or be chewing points loss like toffees.

Yes, I think @SuperGran mentioned it on here first, and it did make a lot of sense, even though I haven't seen anything official. The most generous way I can make it all make sense is that Fosun had various methods that they thought would be OK withing FFP and that Lopetegui could invest in the Summer, they told him that, then reined it in a bit, then realised we were up **** creek without a clear out. He didn't fancy that and left. Nobody has to be the devil incarnate there, but it does smack of some creative accounting that was caught up with. The PL were obviously preparing for Everton to start pointing fingers when they were punished.

 

[Fifty Niner]

Arsenal after Arsene Wengers exit were pretty much in the same situation, a expensive but rudderless ship.
Probably because both Wenger and Ferguson were practically running the show for an awful lot of years, and when they left no-one could pick the reigns, and things went pearshaped.
How many years has it taken Arteta to get his house in order, taking into account their previous managers failures?

ManU needs to find the correct manager, (whoever that is...), who can ship out the expensive deadwood and rebuild the squad like Arteta has done.
It will take years, and if their current owners continue in the same vein, it will hopefully continue to be a joyous period for the onlookers....

Yesterday, Talksport re-ran the rant from an Arsenal fan following their 4-3 win over Luton, who was of the opinion that Arteta should be replaced/not up to the job/never win the league with him in charge etc!

Eddie Howe is doing very well at Newcastle after years with Bournemouth. Postecoglou learned his trade in more remote foreign leagues before proving his methods could work at a higher level with Celtic and now, so far, with Spurs. Point being that Gaz might prove to be an inspired choice and will get better with experience.

I fully expected us to be in the bottom three at this point so am pleasantly surprised we are doing so well, as well as being very relieved that the three promoted teams are so awful and that Everton got a 10 point deduct.

 

[Zico]

Yes, well that was one of my two possible scenarios that I think fit the available information. A lot of people seem to forget that Lopetegui decided to leave over two weeks before the start of the season (obviously that's far from ideal), but agreed to keep working until the new manager was recruited. Again I think that is a well established truth.

Yes Hobbs said that Lopetegui told him after the Celtic match. Didn't really make much difference to the fact that the new manager had no pre season to prepare.

I think what really sticks in the throat when it comes to Lopetegui is that totally unprofessional interview with his mate while on an official club tour. Just seemed like it was an exercise in stroking both men's egos at the expense of the club.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Yes Hobbs said that Lopetegui told him after the Celtic match. Didn't really make much difference to the fact that the new manager had no pre season to prepare.

I think what really sticks in the throat when it comes to Lopetegui is that totally unprofessional interview with his mate while on an official club tour. Just seemed like it was an exercise in stroking both men's egos at the expense of the club.

Yes, wouldn't disagree with that. Had the flavour of something he did in the heat of the moment after being told how bad things were financially as a reaction rather than a professional decision. If Belague was any friend to him then he'd have advised against it, but that's not really journalism!

 

[Stourport wolf]

Yes, wouldn't disagree with that. Had the flavour of something he did in the heat of the moment after being told how bad things were financially as a reaction rather than a professional decision. If Belague was any friend to him then he'd have advised against it, but that's not really journalism!

Not to sure about the heat of the moment bit, as he did exactly the same at the beginning of last season, when he made clear he wanted to leave Seville, but was not prepared to leave without getting paid. Almost for the same reasons too.

 

[wolfslair]

I would be giving him publicity.

I thought a hole in the space time continuum would occur…..

or like saying candy man in the mirror, he would appear!!!

 

[wolvesaywe]

Unless we can leap into the parallel universe where Lopetegui stayed then any comparisons with GON on how this season would have panned out are completely pointless, unless it's the only stick you have left to beat GON with of course

I do know I'm enjoying watching us more than at any point in the last 3 years though

(and yes I'm aware of the argument that one friendly against Rennes meant JL's 23/24 team would have rivalled Pep's Barcelona. Despite the previous week's friendly with Celtic erring more towards sub-Lage)

 

[loppers86]

JL had a managers air and persona but now I wonder how much was bluster. The football under him wasn't much better than under Lage.

not picking on you… there are far, far worse things posted than this by others, but it does highlight how Molineux Mix tends to rewrite history to suit the present.

Looking at your post it would seem that Lage and Lopetegui were pretty much of a muchness, not much between them.

Lage was a relegation manager, Lopetegui was a europe manager and this was proven by hard fact - the results they got.

I could, but won’t, drag up some vey disparaging posts (again not made by you) about Nuno that were made during Lage’s amazing run of 1-0 defeats at the start of his tenure.

 

[5 - Lescott]

Not sure if theres any that listen/watch The Peter Crouch Podcast, but on todays prediction show Steve Sidwell said his “horse whisperer” at West Ham said GON is a shoe in at West Ham.

Also a story about how Crouch drawing us away to Chorley changed a fans life…

 

[Mark Rankines Lovechild]

not picking on you… there are far, far worse things posted than this by others, but it does highlight how Molineux Mix tends to rewrite history to suit the present.

Looking at your post it would seem that Lage and Lopetegui were pretty much of a muchness, not much between them.

Lage was a relegation manager, Lopetegui was a europe manager and this was proven by hard fact - the results they got.

I could, but won’t, drag up some vey disparaging posts (again not made by you) about Nuno that were made during Lage’s amazing run of 1-0 defeats at the start of his tenure.

JL had an excellent club pedigree undoubtedly but little results wise in his career to back it up. His honours count is no better than Lages who had a league title. In the time he was at Wolves he seemed to be a pretty poor man manager (as did Lage at the end) and the players weren't weeping when he left.

Whilst JL’s brief was to keep us up, the squad wasnt anywhere near a bottom three team and due to the world cup (I think), there were plenty of games to drag us out of the mire so it wasnt a typical “ bottom at Christmas goes down” situation. The overall football under JL was, however, no better in my opinion and we didn't score any more goals and it was equally conservative, We scraped the wins we needed so credit to him for that - but that team should never have been in that position, he also got access to a lot of money to “save us”. I just don't think it was quite the relegation survival miracle that JL liked to portray it to be.

JL has managed to obtain. some very big jobs, with big budgets, but has generally failed to deliver other than a euefa cup at Sevilla and a Champions league qualification (Sevilla have always been a good team). He was at Porto with their biggest ever transfer budget and achieved nothing, then it was to Real Madrid where he was very quickly disposed of in less than 12 months. I think he’s a manager with a big reputation and little to back it up when it comes to results and the types of budgets he has had. Playing in Europe with big clubs doesn't make you a “Europe Manager” he had no real pedigree in management prior to Porto then managed in big leagues, at big Clubs with mediocre results.

So, those are my reasonings as to why I think its all a bit of a front: a Spanish John Bond (old Norwich Manger) if you will.

 

[Irish_Wolf]

Still not convinced.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Needs to seriously improve his subs .

Absolutely shocking today . Must have been watching a different game

 

[Wonder Boyo]

JL had an excellent club pedigree undoubtedly but little results wise in his career to back it up. His honours count is no better than Lages who had a league title. In the time he was at Wolves he seemed to be a pretty poor man manager (as did Lage at the end) and the players weren't weeping when he left.

Whilst JL’s brief was to keep us up, the squad wasnt anywhere near a bottom three team and due to the world cup (I think), there were plenty of games to drag us out of the mire so it wasnt a typical “ bottom at Christmas goes down” situation. The overall football under JL was, however, no better in my opinion and we didn't score any more goals and it was equally conservative, We scraped the wins we needed so credit to him for that - but that team should never have been in that position, he also got access to a lot of money to “save us”. I just don't think it was quite the relegation survival miracle that JL liked to portray it to be.

JL has managed to obtain. some very big jobs, with big budgets, but has generally failed to deliver other than a euefa cup at Sevilla and a Champions league qualification (Sevilla have always been a good team). He was at Porto with their biggest ever transfer budget and achieved nothing, then it was to Real Madrid where he was very quickly disposed of in less than 12 months. I think he’s a manager with a big reputation and little to back it up when it comes to results and the types of budgets he has had. Playing in Europe with big clubs doesn't make you a “Europe Manager” he had no real pedigree in management prior to Porto then managed in big leagues, at big Clubs with mediocre results.

So, those are my reasonings as to why I think its all a bit of a front: a Spanish John Bond (old Norwich Manger) if you will.

A Spanish John Bond? Ouch! A little unfair but made me laugh. Didn't Bond always bring his son (Kevin?) to every job he was at too?

 

[Mugwump]

Still not eating humble pie at all.

 

[Wolf79]

Needs to seriously improve his subs .

Absolutely shocking today . Must have been watching a different game

He has little options, our bench is seriously poor, especially our attacking options

 

[Fenrir_]

He has little options, our bench is seriously poor, especially our attacking options

If you can't bring on the right ones, at least take the right ones off! Sarabia was our best player and most likely to make something happen, first player hooked

His subs were really poor today

 

[Ned Stark]

Needs to seriously improve his subs .

Absolutely shocking today . Must have been watching a different game

Still not eating humble pie at all.

This is the humble pie thread, not the 'Let's have yet another go at our manager thread', there's plenty of other places to do that.

 

[Jefe]

Still not eating humble pie at all.

I see no reason to eat humble pie and get on the choo-choo train, refuse to do so out of spite, or anything of the sort. Feels like a struggle session on here at times. My opinion of Gary O'Neil will evolve gradually in time, one way or the other. It won't rapidly turn. At the moment it's okay, not great, not terrible, but with some critical weak areas you could park a bus in, with a playing squad who are capable of more.

 

[Mugwump]

This is the humble pie thread, not the 'Let's have yet another go at our manager thread', there's plenty of other places to do that.

Remind me again, what did my post say? It wasnt having a go at him, i made a comment about humble pie on a thread about it. I'll expect an apology shortly.

 

[Mugwump]

I see no reason to eat humble pie and get on the choo-choo train, refuse to do so out of spite, or anything of the sort. Feels like a struggle session on here at times. My opinion of Gary O'Neil will evolve gradually in time, one way or the other. It won't rapidly turn. At the moment it's okay, not great, not terrible, but with some critical weak areas you could park a bus in, with a playing squad who are capable of more.

I'm fairly fluid with my opinions. It would be stupid of anyone to stubbornly stick with an opinion because things change all the time.

 

[loppers86]

The response to yesterdays dirge of a performance tells us everything we need to know about O’Neils management of Wolves.

He’s been average - but expectations were so low he has massively exceeded them.

He’s ok when his team needs to sit back and counter, but he hasn’t got a clue when it comes to setting the agenda.

He’s walking on eggshells here… can he keep it up long enough to be offered the west ham job?

 

[wolfslair]

I'm fairly fluid with my opinions. It would be stupid of anyone to stubbornly stick with an opinion because things change all the time.

So true, As he has had some fantastic moments where he got it perfectly right in being more pro-active like spurs and Bournemouth….

But other times when we are drawing, he seems almost unable to know what to do or show the desire to go for the three when there looks to be a good chance we could grab them

 

[Contrarian]

If you can't bring on the right ones, at least take the right ones off! Sarabia was our best player and most likely to make something happen, first player hooked

His subs were really poor today

Agree on Sarabia. He didn't look like he wanted to be taken off, so assume he wasn't exhausted or injured.

Also, ignoring Sasa, who has already scored 2 late winning goals for us this season, despite playing 100 minutes less than Fabio (surprising, but apparently true). There could be the argument that Sasa wouldn't fit how we were trying to play. But how we've been trying to play has created about 2 good chances in the last 180 minutes. Against relegation candidates. I'd have thought Sasa would be a player we would be trying to build our attack round, get him fully match fit after his year out. Or at very least, a well honed Plan B. It almost feels like he is deemed surplus.

 

[JamesWolves]

Wanted by West Ham at the end of season apparently, on a list with Carrick and Will Still

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

Wanted by West Ham at the end of season apparently, on a list with Carrick and Will Still

Very worrying times for wear ham if that's the names at the top

 

[loppers86]

Wanted by West Ham at the end of season apparently, on a list with Carrick and Will Still

not any more.