"The football here is different..."

[SoCal_Wolf]

"The football here is different. In La Liga it's more technical, with a lot of passes and a lot of possession, whereas here the speed of the game is much faster and the players are physically stronger.

You have to be alert because things happen very quickly but I think I am getting used to it and my team-mates have helped me a lot with that."
-Willian Jose

Willian Jose exclusive interview: Wolves striker making an impact after long road to the Premier League

I wanted to highlight this quote from an experienced striker with years in a top league and have us reflect on what this means for our new players, especially for young players making the step up to the first team with limited top flight experience (Vitinha, Fabio, RAN, Otasowie), but also for experienced players, like Semedo and Jose himself. The Premier League is a different beast altogether with brutally difficult opposition from top to bottom. New players need time to adjust both physically and mentally. The decisions and reactions on the pitch must be made more quickly than they are used to and it's relentless because there is little drop-off in the quality of the teams they are facing.

This is all magnified when it's a new country (different language, culture, weather) in the midst of a pandemic where you are locked down, not able to fly back to see friends/family or have team bonding events in Spain, etc.

I suppose what I am arguing for amongst our fanbase is patience. Let our new players (and especially our youngsters making the jump up) have the time to develop their skills as well as their interplay and understanding with their teammates and absorb Nuno's philosophies. Football is a team sport, where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts; it takes time for players to know each others' tendencies instinctively. We've seen Semedo put in better performances as time has gone on; we also see Fabio getting better and better (squint a bit and you can seem some gradual progress). Jose, too, will need some time before he is clicking on all cylinders, even though he has lots of experience with moving around on loans and playing at a high level of competition. And we all know how much better Neto improved throughout last season, given time to develop physically and mentally.

 

[WonderWolf]

+1. #patienceNOTpatients

The tomorrow now brigade will never naturally understand.....it's just the way it is.

 

[John de Wolf's hairdryer]

@SoCal_Wolf : You'll need to be patient if you're waiting for the knee-jerkers amongst our fanbase to admit they judge new players far too readily and without adequate understanding of the adjustment process that players coming from a foreign league have to go through integrating into both life in England and the EPL

Great post BTW!

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

How many ****ing 'have patience' threads do we need? We've done Silva to death and there are 2 distinct camps on here, as you well know. There is not one Wolves fan who does not want Silva to do well. If he'd come here for say £2 - 3 mil there would be no upset or even much comment. It's regrettable that he's had to be thrown in, which is no fault of his, neither is his price tag. With a bit of luck he can now get on with learning the English game out of the limelight and come back a better striker in August.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Semedo is a perfect example. Experienced player who looked very ropey early on, but has got better and better.

I guess there will continue to be "patience" threads for as long as there are "knee-jerk" posters.

 

[ombyman]

"The football here is different. In La Liga it's more technical, with a lot of passes and a lot of possession, whereas here the speed of the game is much faster and the players are physically stronger.

You have to be alert because things happen very quickly but I think I am getting used to it and my team-mates have helped me a lot with that."
-Willian Jose

Willian Jose exclusive interview: Wolves striker making an impact after long road to the Premier League

I wanted to highlight this quote from an experienced striker with years in a top league and have us reflect on what this means for our new players, especially for young players making the step up to the first team with limited top flight experience (Vitinha, Fabio, RAN, Otasowie), but also for experienced players, like Semedo and Jose himself. The Premier League is a different beast altogether with brutally difficult opposition from top to bottom. New players need time to adjust both physically and mentally. The decisions and reactions on the pitch must be made more quickly than they are used to and it's relentless because there is little drop-off in the quality of the teams they are facing.

This is all magnified when it's a new country (different language, culture, weather) in the midst of a pandemic where you are locked down, not able to fly back to see friends/family or have team bonding events in Spain, etc.

I suppose what I am arguing for amongst our fanbase is patience. Let our new players (and especially our youngsters making the jump up) have the time to develop their skills as well as their interplay and understanding with their teammates and absorb Nuno's philosophies. Football is a team sport, where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts; it takes time for players to know each others' tendencies instinctively. We've seen Semedo put in better performances as time has gone on; we also see Fabio getting better and better (squint a bit and you can seem some gradual progress). Jose, too, will need some time before he is clicking on all cylinders, even though he has lots of experience with moving around on loans and playing at a high level of competition. And we all know how much better Neto improved throughout last season, given time to develop physically and mentally.

Maybe the recruitment team shouldnt focus just on players from foreign league who will need time to adjust? And when we are short get in players who are used to the hustle and bustle.
Or maybe they try and identify players who are suitable or dont need too much adjustment time, but it doesn't always work as planned

 

[Pagey]

Maybe the recruitment team shouldnt focus just on players from foreign league who will need time to adjust? And when we are short get in players who are used to the hustle and bustle.
Or maybe they try and identify players who are suitable or dont need too much adjustment time, but it doesn't always work as planned

Maybe the recruitment team don't want Wolves to be (with respect to them) Burnley?

Maybe they don't see value in average, high priced domestic players?

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Maybe the recruitment team shouldnt focus just on players from foreign league who will need time to adjust? And when we are short get in players who are used to the hustle and bustle.
Or maybe they try and identify players who are suitable or dont need too much adjustment time, but it doesn't always work as planned

What's wrong with British players? Several good British players have been sold in Nuno's time - Maddison, Bowen, Godfrey, Callum Wilson, Ollie Watkins. Barclay, Lingard, Maitland Niles on loan? Sure there are loads more.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Maybe the recruitment team don't want Wolves to be (with respect to them) Burnley?

Maybe they don't see value in average, high priced domestic players?

Look at the table - we are now Burnley and Brighton? It's a very big summer ahead.

 

[Pagey]

Look at the table - we are now Burnley and Brighton? It's a very big summer ahead.

You really don't get it do you?

 

[JR WAS KING]

Look at the table - we are now Burnley and Brighton? It's a very big summer ahead.

You do seem to have an obsession with Burnley. You manage to prise a reference to them into most of your posts.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

What's wrong with British players? Several good British players have been sold in Nuno's time - Maddison, Bowen, Godfrey, Callum Wilson, Ollie Watkins. Barclay, Lingard, Maitland Niles on loan? Sure there are loads more.

Without really being bothered, let me point out that Maddison moved to a team who had recently won the PL when we were newly promoted. Barclay and Lingard (who has had one good game) are on loan, which does not fit our model at all. Maitland Niles was loaned our by a poor Arsenal team to a dreadful WBA one.

More fundamentally our whole model is to use good contacts to buy cheap talent and develop it, not overpriced average English players.

 

[JR WAS KING]

How many ****ing 'have patience' threads do we need? We've done Silva to death and there are 2 distinct camps on here, as you well know. There is not one Wolves fan who does not want Silva to do well. If he'd come here for say £2 - 3 mil there would be no upset or even much comment. It's regrettable that he's had to be thrown in, which is no fault of his, neither is his price tag. With a bit of luck he can now get on with learning the English game out of the limelight and come back a better striker in August.

I really feel for the people who have to sit by you at the match, it must be purgatory. Moan moan, ****ing moan

 

[SoCal_Wolf]

Maybe the recruitment team shouldnt focus just on players from foreign league who will need time to adjust? And when we are short get in players who are used to the hustle and bustle.
Or maybe they try and identify players who are suitable or dont need too much adjustment time, but it doesn't always work as planned

I don't think that the team only focuses on international players (see, for example, Luke Matheson), however, you can find better bargains on great talent in rest of Europe than in England. My point still stands: the Premier League is the best league in the world right now and even making the jump from the Chump will be an adjustment.

Semedo is a perfect example. Experienced player who looked very ropey early on, but has got better and better.

I guess there will continue to be "patience" threads for as long as there are "knee-jerk" posters.

Yeah, I wasn't just referring to Fabio, but also to established players like Semedo and Jose. Werner, Havertz, and Van de beek are other notable examples. The youngsters have it even harder because they are making a jump up in level in addition to coming to the Premier League. This isn't FIFA or Football Manager where you just plug n' play.

I think that the Wolves do a fantastic job of supporting the players - many, including Jose, feel very welcomed and supported by the club. They really invest in the players as people first - which is why Nuno does not begrudge anyone who decides to leave and acknowledges their impact on the club. We should follow his example.

 

[Contrarian]

Maybe the recruitment team don't want Wolves to be (with respect to them) Burnley?

Maybe they don't see value in average, high priced domestic players?

Burnley as an example of a club that buys high priced domestic players? Surely some mistake? We are only 4 points clear of them , they have a game in hand. Not exactly "light years ahead", is it? A strategy that has given them more seasons in the Premier League than we've had - also one season in the Europa with far less spend. I don't like Burnley, but I have grudging respect for them and Dyche has worked a miracle to get them in this position. And the way this season's gone, we're now getting similar stick from neutrals for playing dull anti-football as Burnley often get. Whatever happened to " Stay humble"?!

Then there's that other team in claret, who bought up some of the best of the Championship players last summer. Their transfers haven't taken half a season to settle as they are used to the pace and so on. Maybe we need to strike a balance and not just dismiss the potential in the English leagues?

 

[Contrarian]

+1. #patienceNOTpatients

The tomorrow now brigade will never naturally understand.....it's just the way it is.

Cutrone, Vellejo, Mir, Roderick, Teixeira, Walter Zenga.. the list goes on and on of those who just weren't given time to settle by the "we want it all now and it's our entitlement" fans.

It's a simple rule: those who are not good enough now, but will be in a few years, we have to have patience with. Those who are not good enough now, and never will be, we get rid. Easy! All we need now is a time machine to go forward 5 years in time....

 

[arctic rime]

"The football here is different. In La Liga it's more technical, with a lot of passes and a lot of possession, whereas here the speed of the game is much faster and the players are physically stronger.

You have to be alert because things happen very quickly but I think I am getting used to it and my team-mates have helped me a lot with that."
-Willian Jose

Willian Jose exclusive interview: Wolves striker making an impact after long road to the Premier League

I wanted to highlight this quote from an experienced striker with years in a top league and have us reflect on what this means for our new players, especially for young players making the step up to the first team with limited top flight experience (Vitinha, Fabio, RAN, Otasowie), but also for experienced players, like Semedo and Jose himself. The Premier League is a different beast altogether with brutally difficult opposition from top to bottom. New players need time to adjust both physically and mentally. The decisions and reactions on the pitch must be made more quickly than they are used to and it's relentless because there is little drop-off in the quality of the teams they are facing.

This is all magnified when it's a new country (different language, culture, weather) in the midst of a pandemic where you are locked down, not able to fly back to see friends/family or have team bonding events in Spain, etc.

I suppose what I am arguing for amongst our fanbase is patience. Let our new players (and especially our youngsters making the jump up) have the time to develop their skills as well as their interplay and understanding with their teammates and absorb Nuno's philosophies. Football is a team sport, where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts; it takes time for players to know each others' tendencies instinctively. We've seen Semedo put in better performances as time has gone on; we also see Fabio getting better and better (squint a bit and you can seem some gradual progress). Jose, too, will need some time before he is clicking on all cylinders, even though he has lots of experience with moving around on loans and playing at a high level of competition. And we all know how much better Neto improved throughout last season, given time to develop physically and mentally.

Excellent post from the OP that will upset a few for sure!

 

[old wittonian]

Excellent well thought out post.

 

[Bondi Wolf]

Pfft! When I played Football Manager on my Commodre 64 in 1986 you could just buy players and they would have the same performance as the club they came from.

Why did those *******s at the Football League have to change how it works?

 

[Superted]

If you think about it, as much as we all hate not being there, this past year has been the perfect time to introduce young, inexperienced players to first team PL football without the pressure of the crowd.

Can't help but think there would have been sections of the crowd on Fabio's back by now making his job more difficult than it needs to be.

 

[Elvis Wolf]

EXCELLENT opening post!

 

[JOSWolf]

I really feel for the people who have to sit by you at the match, it must be purgatory. Moan moan, ****ing moan

Thats harsh mate. The post you quoted was actually a reasonable post that norfolk made.

 

[JOSWolf]

Without really being bothered, let me point out that Maddison moved to a team who had recently won the PL when we were newly promoted. Barclay and Lingard (who has had one good game) are on loan, which does not fit our model at all. Maitland Niles was loaned our by a poor Arsenal team to a dreadful WBA one.

More fundamentally our whole model is to use good contacts to buy cheap talent and develop it, not overpriced average English players.

Looking at how Bowen and Watkins have done I wouldnt describe them as overpriced average players to be fair. Same with Cash who Vile signed.

 

[Pagey]

Burnley as an example of a club that buys high priced domestic players? Surely some mistake? We are only 4 points clear of them , they have a game in hand. Not exactly "light years ahead", is it? A strategy that has given them more seasons in the Premier League than we've had - also one season in the Europa with far less spend. I don't like Burnley, but I have grudging respect for them and Dyche has worked a miracle to get them in this position. And the way this season's gone, we're now getting similar stick from neutrals for playing dull anti-football as Burnley often get. Whatever happened to " Stay humble"?!

Then there's that other team in claret, who bought up some of the best of the Championship players last summer. Their transfers haven't taken half a season to settle as they are used to the pace and so on. Maybe we need to strike a balance and not just dismiss the potential in the English leagues?

I meant more the buy domestic and style of play, rather than the cost (which in some way is irrelevant).

The overall technical ability of players from the continental market is higher, perhaps the Fa can catch up over the coming years.

Back to comparing us with Burnley, can you see them sustaining a top half challenge, with the squad make up they have?

I agree with getting the right blend, including age/experience is crucial.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Looking at how Bowen and Watkins have done I wouldnt describe them as overpriced average players to be fair. Same with Cash who Vile signed.

No, from that list those two were the more sensible suggestions. Watkins has had a good season, but I'm not really convinced he's anything special, for me he's a good penalty area player, eye for goal, not much all round game. Obviously you could argue that we might have got him and not Silva, none of us know if that would have been a good long term choice. Bowen is a talent, but not in an area we were really looking to strengthen.

All irrelevant really though, of course there will be players that other clubs sign that do well and ones who fail. There is a premium for English players for just the reasons explained, less of a gamble with settling in to the country or the game, but we're trying to find foreign players who will cope without having to pay that premium. Neves, Jota, Jonny etc etc show we are doing OK at that, some others haven't worked out. Moaning it's not working when we're an established top division club for the first time in 40 years seems a little churlish.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

I meant more the buy domestic and style of play, rather than the cost (which in some way is irrelevant).

The overall technical ability of players from the continental market is higher, perhaps the Fa can catch up over the coming years.

Back to comparing us with Burnley, can you see them sustaining a top half challenge, with the squad make up they have?

I agree with getting the right blend, including age/experience is crucial.

Burnley, in the last 3 seasons, finished 7th, 17th and 10th in the PL. They are currently 4 points behind us with a game in hand (so not much different to us this season).

We have finished 7th, 7th and it looks like we'll finish some where between 12th and 16th this season.

There's not a huge difference between us, results wise.

 

[JOSWolf]

No, from that list those two were the more sensible suggestions. Watkins has had a good season, but I'm not really convinced he's anything special, for me he's a good penalty area player, eye for goal, not much all round game. Obviously you could argue that we might have got him and not Silva, none of us know if that would have been a good long term choice. Bowen is a talent, but not in an area we were really looking to strengthen.

All irrelevant really though, of course there will be players that other clubs sign that do well and ones who fail. There is a premium for English players for just the reasons explained, less of a gamble with settling in to the country or the game, but we're trying to find foreign players who will cope without having to pay that premium. Neves, Jota, Jonny etc etc show we are doing OK at that, some others haven't worked out. Moaning it's not working when we're an established top division club for the first time in 40 years seems a little churlish.

Some good points. As to your last sentence, posters on here should be allowed to question and debate certain issues without being jumped on. No one is above criticism and no one should feel concerned to post something that may question something at the club with the worry they will be ridiculed, accused of being negative, pant wetter, go and support the **** etc.

 

[Pagey]

Burnley, in the last 3 seasons, finished 7th, 17th and 10th in the PL. They are currently 4 points behind us with a game in hand (so not much different to us this season).

We have finished 7th, 7th and it looks like we'll finish some where between 12th and 16th this season.

There's not a huge difference between us, results wise.

Lets look where the 2 clubs are in 2 years is what I'm trying to say

 

[Flump]

Burnley as an example of a club that buys high priced domestic players? Surely some mistake? We are only 4 points clear of them , they have a game in hand. Not exactly "light years ahead", is it? A strategy that has given them more seasons in the Premier League than we've had - also one season in the Europa with far less spend. I don't like Burnley, but I have grudging respect for them and Dyche has worked a miracle to get them in this position. And the way this season's gone, we're now getting similar stick from neutrals for playing dull anti-football as Burnley often get. Whatever happened to " Stay humble"?!

Then there's that other team in claret, who bought up some of the best of the Championship players last summer. Their transfers haven't taken half a season to settle as they are used to the pace and so on. Maybe we need to strike a balance and not just dismiss the potential in the English leagues?

Yes, if you look at the table now, we're only a bit ahead of Burnley. But look over the time we've been in the PL, as anyone wanting to judge the quality of the teams would, and it's clear we're far ahead in general. And as most people know, this is clearly a low ebb for Wolves, with things like the Raul injury contributing.

As you say, Dyche is a miracle worker - but it's clearly not a good idea to aim for a mediocre squad and then aim for miracles as a long term plan, so you seem to contradict yourself a bit.

West Ham's best signings have been Soucek and Coufal, so they've also been looking for bargains abroad. And anyway, in general their signings have been spectacularly bad over the last few years, so they're hardly a model to aim for.

 

[Contrarian]

Yes, if you look at the table now, we're only a bit ahead of Burnley. But look over the time we've been in the PL, as anyone wanting to judge the quality of the teams would, and it's clear we're far ahead in general. And as most people know, this is clearly a low ebb for Wolves, with things like the Raul injury contributing.

As you say, Dyche is a miracle worker - but it's clearly not a good idea to aim for a mediocre squad and then aim for miracles as a long term plan, so you seem to contradict yourself a bit.

West Ham's best signings have been Soucek and Coufal, so they've also been looking for bargains abroad. And anyway, in general their signings have been spectacularly bad over the last few years, so they're hardly a model to aim for.

Yeah, it's difficult for everyone outside of the big 6 and the other "near perennials" (e.g. Everton/Newcastle/WHam.. maybe Leicester). I see all as trying their own strategies, driven by their own situations.

My real point was that there are decent players at decent prices in the UK leagues. And I was referring to Vile, not WHam, as having invested in top Championship players who seem to have settled quickly and done well for them. Things always change as you say, this season it appears their strategy is winning out - who knows what next will bring?

Also, maybe it's just me, but I really don't like the dismissive, condescending atttitude we sometimes have towards clubs like Brighton, Burnley, Norwich and so on. I think the records show they have all spent more seasons in the Premier League than us and that for your average neutral, they would put us in much the same bracket as that lot. The entitlement sense of big 6 fans is bad enough - but at least they've actually won things in recent history. And what I hate is that despite all this big talk, we hardly ever actually beat those clubs we are apparently ahead of! We need to prove we're better than them on the pitch.

 

[Streathamwolf]

How many ****ing 'have patience' threads do we need? We've done Silva to death and there are 2 distinct camps on here, as you well know. There is not one Wolves fan who does not want Silva to do well. If he'd come here for say £2 - 3 mil there would be no upset or even much comment. It's regrettable that he's had to be thrown in, which is no fault of his, neither is his price tag. With a bit of luck he can now get on with learning the English game out of the limelight and come back a better striker in August.

Yawn

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Looking at how Bowen and Watkins have done I wouldnt describe them as overpriced average players to be fair. Same with Cash who Vile signed.

With those 3 players though theres an argument that at 24 their "ceiling" has been reached or very close to it. Theres not a huge more you are going to develop with them. The likes of Fabio, Vitinha, Ait-Nouri etc they are 4 years younger with a lot of development in front of them so the end game is we have a much much better player. Obviously thats just a theory though and there are plenty of player in world football who are no better at 24 than they were as teenagers.

Looking at our squad it looks in my eyes that we try to have an experienced(ish) player and then a young understudy. What we in hindsight probably should have done was bring in a more battle hardened CF in case anything happened to Raul but then we go back to the old argument of "who comes with similar quality who will be happy sat on the bench". CF is the hardest position alongside goalkeeper for us because you are pretty much swapping 1 for 1 its not like for instance Kilman who will still get games because he can slot in more easily as one of 3 cb's

 

[JOSWolf]

With those 3 players though theres an argument that at 24 their "ceiling" has been reached or very close to it. Theres not a huge more you are going to develop with them. The likes of Fabio, Vitinha, Ait-Nouri etc they are 4 years younger with a lot of development in front of them so the end game is we have a much much better player. Obviously thats just a theory though and there are plenty of player in world football who are no better at 24 than they were as teenagers.

Looking at our squad it looks in my eyes that we try to have an experienced(ish) player and then a young understudy. What we in hindsight probably should have done was bring in a more battle hardened CF in case anything happened to Raul but then we go back to the old argument of "who comes with similar quality who will be happy sat on the bench". CF is the hardest position alongside goalkeeper for us because you are pretty much swapping 1 for 1 its not like for instance Kilman who will still get games because he can slot in more easily as one of 3 cb's

Think we also needed a central midfield player with more experience to compete or slot in instead of Donck/ Moutinho alongside Neves. Certainly need another centre back. Right sided one ideally.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Thats harsh mate. The post you quoted was actually a reasonable post that norfolk made.

Thanks JOS. Just read JR's comment and it got 9 likes! Like you I thought my post was very fair but whatever I say, good or bad, will get criticized on here; that's the way it is.

 

[JOSWolf]

Thanks JOS. Just read JR's comment and it got 9 likes! Like you I thought my post was very fair but whatever I say, good or bad, will get criticized on here; that's the way it is.

No worries mate. I was really surprised at the reaction to your post you mention. It wasnt that bad at all but still got slated. A few seem to slate you no matter what which is a shame.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Think we also needed a central midfield player with more experience to compete or slot in instead of Donck/ Moutinho alongside Neves. Certainly need another centre back. Right sided one ideally.

I think the most pressing positions in the summer are at CB and CM for sure, both need to be in the "now" catergory rather than development stages. I know its players out of our reach once other clubs come in but the links to Ruben Dias and Bruno Fernandes, if we could have got them at the time, would be a world of difference, so players of that ilk. We are going to have to spend big in my eyes to compete but I still think it should follow a quality over quantity method.

 

[JOSWolf]

I think the most pressing positions in the summer are at CB and CM for sure, both need to be in the "now" catergory rather than development stages. I know its players out of our reach once other clubs come in but the links to Ruben Dias and Bruno Fernandes, if we could have got them at the time, would be a world of difference, so players of that ilk. We are going to have to spend big in my eyes to compete but I still think it should follow a quality over quantity method.

Yep. if we can keep the squad mainly as it is including signing Vitinha, Ait Nouri and Jose then hopefully get in ready made central midfield player and centre back. Maybe loan to buy deals to off set a huge spend all at once. If we are going to play with 4 at the back and more attacking formation then a new no10 style player maybe needed as well to compete with Podence.

 

[1972 i began]

Maybe the recruitment team shouldnt focus just on players from foreign league who will need time to adjust? And when we are short get in players who are used to the hustle and bustle.
Or maybe they try and identify players who are suitable or dont need too much adjustment time, but it doesn't always work as planned

Those ready made players cost more wedge.Especially those from GB.

 

[1972 i began]

No worries mate. I was really surprised at the reaction to your post you mention. It wasnt that bad at all but still got slated. A few seem to slate you no matter what which is a shame.

gerra room yow pair.

 

[lets all have a disco]

I remember having a very "heated discussion" with a fellow wolves fan at away game in November last season about pedro neto.... He was saying he was a waste of money, awful signing, absolutely rubbish and far too lightweight.......... Been had over by mendes etc.........