The Death of Football, R.I.P.

[Fenrir_]

Crazy to think that the Onana assault in match week one probably don’t get into the top 10 of mental VAR/ref decisions against us this season.

If you didn’t laugh you would cry.

Crazy to think that that assault wasn't deemed a foul, but a flailing arm shrugging off a player that didn't make contact was enough to rule out a goal

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

SWEDEN DITCH VAR

Head of the Swedish FA announces that VAR system will not be used there. Been rejected by fans groups + clubs

 

[Big Saft Kid]

It can be frustrating at times but I’m sure once you’ve calmed down a bit you’ll be back at Molineux.

I have "calmed down a bit" (not that I was het up) and my mind is made up that I won't be renewing my season ticket for next season (except in the unlikely event of the PL abolishing VAR before next Saturday). I will follow Wolves on the MSM ( I refuse to have SKY) and hope they do well but I won't be attending any more. Luton will be my last live game and after it I will be putting my ST through the shredder. I will have plenty of great memories, having been lucky enough to be born in 1948. Now kindly **** off back to Sandwell Town.

 

[Mancwolf56]

I have "calmed down a bit" (not that I was het up) and my mind is made up that I won't be renewing my season ticket for next season (except in the unlikely event of the PL abolishing VAR before next Saturday). I will follow Wolves on the MSM ( I refuse to have SKY) and hope they do well but I won't be attending any more. Luton will be my last live game and after it I will be putting my ST through the shredder. I will have plenty of great memories, having been lucky enough to be born in 1948. Now kindly **** off back to Sandwell Town.

Like most on here I hate VAR, the Sky coverage, the so called big six etc etc but I just wonder if it’s just us ‘oldies’ that think this way. It would be interesting to find out if the younger Wolves fans on here think the same or do they have a different view on things?

 

[WR4Wolf]

I did too. But, at the end of the day it means **** all. Unless 20000 fans had walked out, which may have made some headlines, it means nothing to the arrogant PGMOL that you and I and a few others walked out. After nearly 60 years of watching Wolves they have managed to kill my love of the game in a few short seasons. The sad thing is that I will be back in the pub on Saturday ready to go again. It's more of a social thing now though. If I couldn't meet up with people in the pub before and after the match I would seriously have to consider whether to renew my ticket next season. Words cannot describe how much I hate and detest VAR and I would happily put up with crap decisions against us if we could just consign it to history.

I said to those around me that we should all walk out but the problem with that is, although you think it's a terrible decision you can't be 100% certain. If we all walked out and then it transpires VAR had got it right we'd all look stupid. If we could get a better phone signal (another gripe) then we'd be better informed to make a decision.

What about staying on the concourse for either the City or Liverpool game for the 1st 10 minutes, given both games will be televised just to show our opposition to VAR. It would have been good to do at home vs Arsenal but don't think concourses could take 28k people

 

[Spitfire]

Only just watched the highlights from last nights game. No issue with Kilman’s goal being offside but the camera angle they used to draw the lines from was ridiculous especially as they seemed to have a much better angle to use. Sums up the total nonsense of VAR for me. No way is that accurate, and they’re saying these are factual decisions, absolute garbage.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Only just watched the highlights from last nights game. No issue with Kilman’s goal being offside but the camera angle they used to draw the lines from was ridiculous especially as they seemed to have a much better angle to use. Sums up the total nonsense of VAR for me. No way is that accurate, and they’re saying these are factual decisions, absolute garbage.

They use different angles and frames to manipulate the outcome they want… which in turn is corruption.

Forensic football. Var was not designed for this

 

[cannockwolves]

As much as I hate it VAR is never going to be removed. It gives broadcasters a whole new topic to discuss and some say arm chair and international audiences love the drama, football has become a video game.

There is absolutely nothing anyone is going to do to change this, nothing.

The big six don't tend to get effected by the decisions, if you are regularly winning games 2 or 3 nil then so what if one gets chalked off due to VAR.

More to the point the big clubs can also afford to loss 5 or 10% of "legacy fans" because there will be plenty of tourists to fill the void, the board casters won't care they can dub crown noise and it won't be long before AI generated crowds can fill an empty stadium for the purposes of tv audiences.

I hate it, I really do. I was going to say it's destroying the game, but it's not what it's doing is morphing the game into something else that "legacy fans" hate but TV loves.

They may knock some of the rough edges off it next season, but it's sill soulless and kills the joy of scoring a goal.

 

[wolvesjoe]

As much as I hate it VAR is never going to be removed. It gives broadcasters a whole new topic to discuss and some say arm chair and international audiences love the drama, football has become a video game.

There is absolutely nothing anyone is going to do to change this, nothing.

The big six don't tend to get effected by the decisions, if you are regularly winning games 2 or 3 nil then so what if one gets chalked off due to VAR.

More to the point the big clubs can also afford to loss 5 or 10% of "legacy fans" because there will be plenty of tourists to fill the void, the board casters won't care they can dub crown noise and it won't be long before AI generated crowds can fill an empty stadium for the purposes of tv audiences.

I hate it, I really do. I was going to say it's destroying the game, but it's not what it's doing is morphing the game into something else that "legacy fans" hate but TV loves.

They may knock some of the rough edges off it next season, but it's sill soulless and kills the joy of scoring a goal.

I'm not so pessimistic......get the crowds singing **** VAR every match and I can't see how it can survive.. We have more power in general than we realise.

Curious situation....paying public hate part of what the pay for. That is not sustainable.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

Would be interesting if Wolves contacted those not renewing for their reasons why, the increased cost will be one but I'm guessing PGMOL/VAR will also be very high up there.

I know they won't but would love to know. Maybe the E&S could get off their **** and do some investigative journalism. Won't make a difference right now, but ultimately the way PGMOL are behaving will have the biggest effect on attendances since the hooliganism of the 70's and 80's.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Would be interesting if Wolves contacted those not renewing for their reasons why, the increased cost will be one but I'm guessing PGMOL/VAR will also be very high up there.

I know they won't but would love to know. Maybe the E&S could get off their **** and do some investigative journalism. Won't make a difference right now, but ultimately the way PGMOL are behaving will have the biggest effect on attendances since the hooliganism of the 70's and 80's.

It wouldn't tell the whole story though.

VAR was around when we were in Europe and having the best years for a generation under Nuno. Sure, people were frustrated by it, but it certainly didn't impact people going to games or the way we felt under Nuno.

If we were preparing for an FA Cup final, as we perhaps should be, or we had been to Wembley, there's no way VAR would be as much of a talking point, and there's certainly no way that fans would be talking about giving up the game and not going to the extent they are.

Similarly, if season ticket holders weren't staring down the barrel of yet another price rise, there wouldn't be so many people walking away, or threatening to.

As always, football is the most important thing. With Wolves' disgraceful actions from a football and pricing perspective, VAR can become another factor that tips fans over the edge. But, if we get it right on those two fronts, it really wouldn't matter as much.

Everyone's on a downer about Wolves right now which is understandable, but VAR, whilst a factor, is distracting from the real issues, and we need to focus on them ahead of this summer because it's a critical one for our club and the owners are going to leave us in massive ****.

 

[WolfLing]

First time in my life I’ve just lost interest in football. Probably partly down to our season fizzling out, but mainly down to how the game has been completely spoilt. I used to watch most week night games when they were on, regardless of who was playing.

Watched the darts instead last night. Since the Luke Littler phenomenon it has become the second most watched UK sport behind PL football. It’s far more entertaining and it’ll overtake it if football keeps eating itself in the name of ‘progress’.

I think it’s the simplicity of it. It’s still the same game that anyone can play in the pub or at home. It makes it relatable. A big reason why football originally didn’t want things like goal line tech or VAR in the past was to keep the grassroots game of football the same as the elite game. That’s no longer applicable. It’s a different sport now to what’s played by so many every weekend.

 

[Watfordfc]

The Swedish league have rejected VAR or rather their fans have and been heard.

Sweden bows to fan power and becomes first country to reject VAR

Do you think if they voted again the clubs here would agree to scrap it?

 

[Munich_Wolf]

The Swedish league have rejected VAR or rather their fans have and been heard.

Sweden bows to fan power and becomes first country to reject VAR

Do you think if they voted again the clubs here would agree to scrap it?

I think this puts to bed the common belief in England and the UK in general that it's here to stay and you have to accept it.

As we saw with the Super League, protest loud and hard enough and VAR would be be gone in the UK too. Instead, it appears it could well be extended to corners & free-kicks.

 

[Fenrir_]

I think this puts to bed the common belief in England and the UK in general that it's here to stay and you have to accept it.

As we saw with the Super League, protest loud and hard enough and VAR would be be gone in the UK too. Instead, it appears it could well be extended to corners & free-kicks.

Don't mind corners to be honest. Not subjective and usually easy to tell whether it is or not way before a taker has even got to the corner flag to take the kick

Rest of it can do one

 

[Darvo]

It wouldn't tell the whole story though.

VAR was around when we were in Europe and having the best years for a generation under Nuno. Sure, people were frustrated by it, but it certainly didn't impact people going to games or the way we felt under Nuno.

If we were preparing for an FA Cup final, as we perhaps should be, or we had been to Wembley, there's no way VAR would be as much of a talking point, and there's certainly no way that fans would be talking about giving up the game and not going to the extent they are.

Similarly, if season ticket holders weren't staring down the barrel of yet another price rise, there wouldn't be so many people walking away, or threatening to.

As always, football is the most important thing. With Wolves' disgraceful actions from a football and pricing perspective, VAR can become another factor that tips fans over the edge. But, if we get it right on those two fronts, it really wouldn't matter as much.

Everyone's on a downer about Wolves right now which is understandable, but VAR, whilst a factor, is distracting from the real issues, and we need to focus on them ahead of this summer because it's a critical one for our club and the owners are going to leave us in massive ****.

Completely disagree. I can handle Wolves under performing (we have had plenty of previous experience over the years).

What I can't handle is the monstrosity of VAR that has wrecked the game.

 

[Ginger Chimp]

The Swedish league have rejected VAR or rather their fans have and been heard.

Sweden bows to fan power and becomes first country to reject VAR

Do you think if they voted again the clubs here would agree to scrap it?

I don't think the clubs would ...

 

[Watfordfc]

Don't mind corners to be honest. Not subjective and usually easy to tell whether it is or not way before a taker has even got to the corner flag to take the kick

Rest of it can do one

Yes be more useful and reliable than the endless was it a foul/was it handball etc.

 

[JR’s Boots]

I’m seriously considering not renewing my ST on the back of VAR. The goals scrubbed out against West Ham and Bournemouth have left me demoralised at the damage fools these fools have inflicted on football. They are trashing their own product.

Why don’t Wolves take a stand and turn off the cameras as Liverpool did against us?

 

[lobodelsur]

It wouldn't tell the whole story though.

VAR was around when we were in Europe and having the best years for a generation under Nuno. Sure, people were frustrated by it, but it certainly didn't impact people going to games or the way we felt under Nuno.

If we were preparing for an FA Cup final, as we perhaps should be, or we had been to Wembley, there's no way VAR would be as much of a talking point, and there's certainly no way that fans would be talking about giving up the game and not going to the extent they are.

Similarly, if season ticket holders weren't staring down the barrel of yet another price rise, there wouldn't be so many people walking away, or threatening to.

As always, football is the most important thing. With Wolves' disgraceful actions from a football and pricing perspective, VAR can become another factor that tips fans over the edge. But, if we get it right on those two fronts, it really wouldn't matter as much.

Everyone's on a downer about Wolves right now which is understandable, but VAR, whilst a factor, is distracting from the real issues, and we need to focus on them ahead of this summer because it's a critical one for our club and the owners are going to leave us in massive ****.

You're looking at it from an exclusively 'Wolves' perspective.
There are supporters of different clubs up and down the country who all hate it with a passion.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

You're looking at it from an exclusively 'Wolves' perspective.
There are supporters of different clubs up and down the country who all hate it with a passion.

Fair point, but I bet it's always a minority at clubs who are doing well.

Look at Forest. Gone from singing 'we love VAR' at their celebrations following promotion to becoming the biggest anti-VAR club going.


I disagree but I respect the view and have sympathy for fans who are against it. However, right now, I think we're using it as an excuse/escape about Wolves and it's distracting from the real problems that we need to address to make a seemingly significant section of our fans fall back in love with the club.

 

[loppers86]

I think this puts to bed the common belief in England and the UK in general that it's here to stay and you have to accept it.

As we saw with the Super League, protest loud and hard enough and VAR would be be gone in the UK too. Instead, it appears it could well be extended to corners & free-kicks.

you’re absolutely right. this article from 6 months ago shows the protests in scandinavia that led to this decision:

Protest and resist: fans in Scandinavia lead backlash against VAR

Supporters of clubs in Norway have demonstrated against the use of a video assistant referee, while Sweden continues to hold out against introduction

www.theguardian.com

The norwegian protest really is fantastic!

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Not Wolves, but Brighton. A Manchester City player appeared to foul a Brighton player in the penalty area. The referee said no penalty and it took VAR a millisecond to agree with the referee. Television cameras suggested there was indeed a foul, so why didn’t VAR ask the referee to look at the monitor. It was incompetence at best, though I do wonder whether the badges on the shirts affected the decision.

VAR is a monstrosity that has ruined football. Get rid of it now.

 

[rubyloo]

I disagree but I respect the view and have sympathy for fans who are against it. However, right now, I think we're using it as an excuse/escape about Wolves and it's distracting from the real problems that we need to address to make a seemingly significant section of our fans fall back in love with the club.

Have you considered the possibility that Wolves are awful at the moment AND VAR is ruining the experience of attending football matches?

 

[berwickwolf]

We need to flood social media with anti var comments, including people giving up on season tickets because of it. Get in touch with media outlets: we got a mention on 5live this morning re var, and a sympathetic response from the journalist. Sign petitions like the one above. And we could make suggestions, like when var gets called for the crowd sings It's not football anymore. Suggest other clubs' supporters do this too. Build a vocal opposition.

Edit: I've just messaged the rest is football podcast. Let's try to build something more public.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Have you considered the possibility that Wolves are awful at the moment AND VAR is ruining the experience of attending football matches?

Of course. I said VAR is a factor.

I'm a concerned fan at the minute about the future of our club. It might be heat of the moment stuff after a defeat, but I've never seen the number of people claiming they won't renew, claiming they've fallen out of love with football etc. and it's left me worried about what is going to happen with us.

However, VAR seems to be getting most of the blame. As I've pointed out, VAR has been around for a while. It was here for the best time we've had in decades, and we we're still getting done then! It was criticised then, but it was never ever ever stopping this number of people going to games.

As I say, if we're in an FA Cup final, are this number of people claiming they're going to give up season tickets and not watch? Not a chance in a million years.

There's an apathy that has taken over a lot of our fans right now - and I do sympathise. It's deflating watching us get done again and again with ridiculous decisions.

But, in the bigger picture, the major issues for us right now are the club. We need anger not apathy and to target the right things.

Suitable investment into the team, lying about PSR, cheaper ticket prices. These are some of the major problems we have right now and if they're fixed then Wolves fans will get back to feeling a love for the club.

VAR is a tiny symptom of the bigger problems for us. I don't like where we're quickly heading and VAR is covering the problems IMO.

 

[Sammy Chungs Tracksuit]

Have you considered the possibility that Wolves are awful at the moment AND VAR is ruining the experience of attending football matches?

Have you considered the possibility that many of us have been watching Wolves through thick and thin for decades and that we are giving up our season tickets becuase of VAR?

The quality of even our small squad right now is infinitely higher than it was at any point between 1981-2017. Ait Nouri, Joao Gomes, Cunha, Neto are tremendous players. I'm not giving up my season ticket becuase the squad isnt good enough, I'm giving it up because I'm sick to death of VAR killing the joy in the game.

Yes we were awful against Bournemouth first half and could have been 4-0 down at HT but we were only 1-0 down and pulling it back to 1-1 with a perfectly good goal was a joyous moment until the ****ing VAR sign went up on the screens. Much the same against West Ham with Kilmans perfectly good stoppage time goal to make it 2-2. Plus all the other crap from VAR we have had to put up with this season and last season.

For you to suggest that long term fans are giving up season tickets because of a poor run of form is just *******s basically.

 

[wolvesjoe]

It wouldn't tell the whole story though.

VAR was around when we were in Europe and having the best years for a generation under Nuno. Sure, people were frustrated by it, but it certainly didn't impact people going to games or the way we felt under Nuno.

If we were preparing for an FA Cup final, as we perhaps should be, or we had been to Wembley, there's no way VAR would be as much of a talking point, and there's certainly no way that fans would be talking about giving up the game and not going to the extent they are.

Similarly, if season ticket holders weren't staring down the barrel of yet another price rise, there wouldn't be so many people walking away, or threatening to.

As always, football is the most important thing. With Wolves' disgraceful actions from a football and pricing perspective, VAR can become another factor that tips fans over the edge. But, if we get it right on those two fronts, it really wouldn't matter as much.

Everyone's on a downer about Wolves right now which is understandable, but VAR, whilst a factor, is distracting from the real issues, and we need to focus on them ahead of this summer because it's a critical one for our club and the owners are going to leave us in massive ****.

You need to drop this line of argument....because you are contaminating the discussion about VAR. The argument about fosuns scandalous failure in January is a separate discussion.

The popular reaction against what happened on Wednesday feels like s breakthrough moment for wolves fans and something to be built on nationwide. There could be a snowball effect. The premier league will not tolerate a sustained protest, damaging their precious "product.

 

[Oliwolf44]

Do have to wonder what this new tv deal will do to the crowds. Have seen some stills of brighton last night and hardly anyone there by the end (admittedly lost 4-0). Increase ticket prices coupled with the fact there will be a lot more midweek or friday or monday night and soon we will see that more visually with empty seats. More pumped in crowd noise in the future methinks.

 

[Northbank cigarette]

There's definitely some 'sunk cost fallacy' at play with the football authorities re. VAR from here. They seem to be of the opinion that some small tweaks (e.g speed, slightly more transparency, better VAR training) will rectify everything.

BUT they are completely missing the bigger point that most fans don't want this overly-manufactured, apparently-perfect version of football. We've tried it for a few years and we don't like it, we've even allowed them a few seasons to get over any teething problems.

As with most walks of life, it can be very hard for people with big EGOs to admit they made the wrong call

 

[rubyloo]

For you to suggest that long term fans are giving up season tickets because of a poor run of form is just *******s basically.

Crossed wires i think here - didn't mean to suggest anything like that at all - just saying 2 facts can co-exist: 1. We are terrible at the moment & 2. VAR is a nightmare.

And for the record, if you can find anyone who hates VAR more than me, well done.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

You need to drop this line of argument....because you are contaminating the discussion about VAR. The argument about fosuns scandalous failure in January is a separate discussion.

The popular reaction against what happened on Wednesday feels like s breakthrough moment for wolves fans and something to be built on nationwide. There could be a snowball effect. The premier league will not tolerate a sustained protest, damaging their precious "product.

It's relevant though.

If Wolves were in an FA Cup final, we all know that the outcry wouldn't be at the same level.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Have you considered the possibility that many of us have been watching Wolves through thick and thin for decades and that we are giving up our season tickets becuase of VAR?

The quality of even our small squad right now is infinitely higher than it was at any point between 1981-2017. Ait Nouri, Joao Gomes, Cunha, Neto are tremendous players. I'm not giving up my season ticket becuase the squad isnt good enough, I'm giving it up because I'm sick to death of VAR killing the joy in the game.

Yes we were awful against Bournemouth first half and could have been 4-0 down at HT but we were only 1-0 down and pulling it back to 1-1 with a perfectly good goal was a joyous moment until the ****ing VAR sign went up on the screens. Much the same against West Ham with Kilmans perfectly good stoppage time goal to make it 2-2. Plus all the other crap from VAR we have had to put up with this season and last season.

For you to suggest that long term fans are giving up season tickets because of a poor run of form is just *******s basically.

Why didn't you give it up after a year or two then?

Again, VAR is clearly a factor for you, so not dismissing that entirely but it's been around since 19/20 and we got done with a **** call on the first game, and we have continued to do so over the years.

 

[Jefe]

Intrigued by Khelsa and Romulus.

They've got a tasty derby with Vulcan coming up.

 

[Jefe]

There's definitely some 'sunk cost fallacy' at play with the football authorities re. VAR from here. They seem to be of the opinion that some small tweaks (e.g speed, slightly more transparency, better VAR training) will rectify everything.

Excellent way to put it. There is a sunk cost fallacy with VAR, only it's not money that PGMOL is frittering away, but their reputation. Abandon VAR, as Sweden have, and they might escape with some small sliver of integrity. Keep the course and they will globally recognised as a laughing stock, and Webb will lose his job in disgrace.

 

[Sammy Chungs Tracksuit]

Why didn't you give it up after a year or two then?

Again, VAR is clearly a factor for you, so not dismissing that entirely but it's been around since 19/20 and we got done with a **** call on the first game, and we have continued to do so over the years.

Because its getting worse and worse. There was an argument back in the early days of VAR that they were getting used to it and it will be sorted out. It hasnt been. There were a few bad ones early doors but the decisions are just getting more and more bizarre as each season goes by.

 

[loppers86]

Have you considered the possibility that many of us have been watching Wolves through thick and thin for decades and that we are giving up our season tickets becuase of VAR?

The quality of even our small squad right now is infinitely higher than it was at any point between 1981-2017. Ait Nouri, Joao Gomes, Cunha, Neto are tremendous players. I'm not giving up my season ticket becuase the squad isnt good enough, I'm giving it up because I'm sick to death of VAR killing the joy in the game.

Yes we were awful against Bournemouth first half and could have been 4-0 down at HT but we were only 1-0 down and pulling it back to 1-1 with a perfectly good goal was a joyous moment until the ****ing VAR sign went up on the screens. Much the same against West Ham with Kilmans perfectly good stoppage time goal to make it 2-2. Plus all the other crap from VAR we have had to put up with this season and last season.

For you to suggest that long term fans are giving up season tickets because of a poor run of form is just *******s basically.

i’ve been attending regularly since ‘74 and have had a season ticket for long periods.

i won’t be paying for a membership next year and might get to see a couple of games from the open corner of Kiddy aren’t playing.

 

[Shergar]

This would get through TV censors..

 

[Sammy Chungs Tracksuit]

Crossed wires i think here - didn't mean to suggest anything like that at all - just saying 2 facts can co-exist: 1. We are terrible at the moment & 2. VAR is a nightmare.

And for the record, if you can find anyone who hates VAR more than me, well done.

If you think we are terrible at the moment then you clearly were not arround when Sollbakken and Saunders were taking us down to League One. Or when we had the Chapman brothers and we failed to score at home for months on end. This thread is about VAR and its effects not about us being in poor form which is a regular recurring situation at Wolves over the years that comes and goes.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

I've pretty much stayed off here for 24 hours as I made my point early in the thread. My views have not changed. I'm going out on Saturday and will come back and see what our result was. I will not watch any of the last 3 games as I think our injury situation, our league position and VAR make all 3 results pretty much a foregone conclusion. I'm just so disillusioned with it all tbh. I haven't read through all this but I feel I need to write to the people who run VAR and basically say that they are killing the game I've loved and been going to for 60+ years. Does anyone know the address of the organisation I need to write to ? Thanks.