The curious case of Nathan Collins…..

[North West Wanderer]

Collins is ok not the best I think he could be moved on as part of the summer reshuffle Everton stay up Dyche will want him

While we go for more experienced players

why would we sell? you’re obsessed with selling and buying players. is that you JOS?!

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

why would we sell? you’re obsessed with selling and buying players. is that you JOS?!

No but obviously there’s going to be a summer overhaul if Julen wants his own men he will get them and Collins would have options said it last season and say it again this season there’s going to be lots of changes

 

[DJLWolf]

Got a great reception at full time when he ran over to do a warm down. Think he’s a big player for us going forward. It’s a good move from Julen to take him out of the firing line just for the time being, I feel like some people are far too quick to write players off.

I was a fan who argued he needed to be dropped, but I feel the real pro Collins fans have completely misconstrued what me and many others have said about him, perhaps because they feel sensitive that Lopetegui has shown that opinion was justified and are now feeling defensive.

Collins clearly has good potential and a great attitude, I don't think you would find any Wolves fan who would suggest otherwise and I completely agree that in 2,3 years time he will likely be a good centre back.

My argument was that we are in a relegation battle and we can't afford to have players 'learning on the job', in critical positions, which he clearly is.Kilman has proven he is good enough for this level previously and is more calm and composed on the ball, so he gets the nod next to Dawson.Simple as that really.

The truth is, he has been 'written off' by no-one, it is just a squad game and right now he's best off on the bench, as Julen has decided.

 

[JadeWolf]

I was a fan who argued he needed to be dropped, but I feel the real pro Collins fans have completely misconstrued what me and many others have said about him, perhaps because they feel sensitive that Lopetegui has shown that opinion was justified and are now feeling defensive.

Collins clearly has good potential and a great attitude, I don't think you would find any Wolves fan who would suggest otherwise and I completely agree that in 2,3 years time he will likely be a good centre back.

My argument was that we are in a relegation battle and we can't afford to have players 'learning on the job', in critical positions, which he clearly is.Kilman has proven he is good enough for this level previously and is more calm and composed on the ball, so he gets the nod next to Dawson.Simple as that really.

The truth is, he has been 'written off' by no-one, it is just a squad game and right now he's best off on the bench, as Julen has decided.

I think he has been written off. Literally the post above what I said someone said we should sell him to Everton.

 

[Ned]

So correct me if I’m wrong. Dawson has come in and replaced Collins. So what is Lope thinking there? Kilman hasn’t made as many mistakes, certainly not this season. Collins on the other hand has been sent off against City and given the ball away by overplaying numerous times and been caught out postionally. I’m acutely aware that Dawson has been around the block. Just think it’s interesting that he’s dropped Collins & not Kilman.

It might just be that he had to drop 1 and went for the left footed player for more balance. Might be as simple as that, I might be talking *******s!

 

[marrs-guitar]

I don't think it's a necessarily a decision of Kilman over Collins, it's just that we have signed a much better defender than either of them and he plays on the side of the defence that Collins occupied.

It was a poor combination from the get-go with Collins and Kilman as they both have similar strengths and similar weaknesses to their game. You really want to pair up two players who complement one another in covering for each other's weaknesses. If you've got one CB lacking pace, you ideally need someone fast next to him, if one is physically slight, you need an athletic guy next to him, if one is quiet, you need an organiser next to him etc.

I have to say of the two of them, I think that Collins had performed better over the whole of the season to date, but still not well enough to make him an automatic starter and dictate that he couldn't be benched in January.

 

[DJLWolf]

I think he has been written off. Literally the post above what I said someone said we should sell him to Everton.

I would suspect that's an opinion that about 1% of wolves fans would agree with!

 

[JOSWolf]

why would we sell? you’re obsessed with selling and buying players. is that you JOS?!

Hi NWW.

 

[Ned]

Collins is ok not the best I think he could be moved on as part of the summer reshuffle Everton stay up Dyche will want him

While we go for more experienced players

Maaaate… really?!

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I don't think there was much in it. Kilman is still looking a bit shakey in a 4 and even though Dawson talks to him, he's not there yet. Although it was in a 5 so maybe not a fair comparison,he looked more comfortable on the right. Collins has more mistakes in him, but is that because he is more aggressive and likely to go and try to deal with a problem. I think Dawson could quite easily play left and let Collins back in and beyond all that I like Toti too, even though he was even wilder in terms of leaving his position to attack a problem. So happy with our options, let's be honest though, everything looks rosy after a couple of wins!

 

[Ned]

Too much being read into this. Somebody had to be dropped if we were going to play Dawson and JLo has chosen Kilman. Maybe he provides more balance, maybe he’s a better “number two” centre back (better at taking orders and feeding off of a talker) maybe it’s just experience.

Collins, at 21, is not going to be ruined by being dropped. It might even do him the world of good.

Honestly I can’t fathom how people don’t rate him as a potentially excellent centre back?!

He’s 21 and not played many games yet.
He’s 21 and not played many games yet.
He’s 21 and not played many games yet.
He’s 21 and not played many games yet.
He’s 21 and not played many games yet.
He’s 21 and not played many games yet.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Maaaate… really?!

For suggesting we won’t have interest if Jules wants his own players time will tell I’m not saying we should sell him but an overhaul is coming will Collins want to be back up player?

 

[DJLWolf]

Honestly I can’t fathom how people don’t rate him as a potentially excellent centre back?!

Easy to answer.

I think those people would say, because he isn't playing like an excellent centre back currently and that although he has potential, you see cases all the time where that potential at a young age isn't utilised as they get older.

 

[wolvesaywe]

I think he has been written off. Literally the post above what I said someone said we should sell him to Everton.

More than a few have said flog him in the summer. If that's not writing him off I'm not sure what is

 

[SilverstoneWolf]

Ridiculous posts. Collins will be our standout CH for years to come. Meanwhile you don’t put square pegs in round holes, so Collins not Iolman benched for Fawson. Dawson has been awesome. Collins will learn loads from him - & Kilman - and meanwhile we have a top CH or two prospects on the bench. Brilliant!!

 

[Stee]

He has a mistake in him but then so does Kilman, I really don’t think there is much between them.

Max is a lefty which I’ve always thought is better as the LCB and I think he’s more comfortable on the ball too but defensively I think it’s very close.

Max nearly gifted Southampton a second yesterday, I do feel that if that had been Collins it would have been highlighted more.

We should keep him.

 

[North West Wanderer]

No but obviously there’s going to be a summer overhaul if Julen wants his own men he will get them and Collins would have options said it last season and say it again this season there’s going to be lots of changes

we cannot keep revamping it’s not sustainable. there’s a player there and it’s up to JL to coach him.

 

[Wolves Heathen]

What we are presently seeing is a Team playing football that will keep us in the PL, what we see when we are safe could be somewhat different, example I do think Julen picks a team according to the opposition but I also think he will at times play a back 3/5 we have seen it during games but are yet to see it since we have signed Dawson, but sooner rather than later Julen will go back to doing that during games.

 

[hollo]

How in any way can you first of all compare Collins to Dawson one who has played for years in the prem to someone who has played one season. Make the comparison then in 10 years when Collins in 30 odd. Kilman has made as many mistakes but he is also learning that is the reason we brought in an experienced player to solidify the defence. Collins Dawson and kilman will all have a big contribution to the rest of our season and for future years.

We have toti gomes too as back up. I hope he is okay with not being in the match day squad? There are always suspensions and injuries in football. Counter to jeff shi our manager wants a big squad. Competion is good and healthy and we haven't taken the **** like forest.

 

[DJLWolf]

we cannot keep revamping it’s not sustainable. there’s a player there and it’s up to JL to coach him.

Well, you can if you get the transfer fees back that you paid out and have a manager in place who can gel a group of players quickly.

If I was one of the wolves squad who were existing before Lopetegui arrived, I would be worried for my future.

Lopetegui will not mess around if he doesn't think you're up to the job.

 

[North West Wanderer]

Well, you can if you get the transfer fees back that you paid out and have a manager in place who can gel a group of players quickly.

If I was one of the wolves squad who were existing before Lopetegui arrived, I would be worried for my future.

Lopetegui will not mess around if he doesn't think you're up to the job.

it costs more to buy a player than sell a player though. i also want to see who JL can coach into being a better player.

 

[stever]

Collins is good, be ridiculous to move him on

 

[Paddy Wolf]

At the same age, Dawson was playing for Rochdale.

 

[DJLWolf]

At the same age, Dawson was playing for Rochdale.

Heard this a few times and I understand the point that is being made but not sure it's that relevant. Players develop at different ages.Ian Wright and Jamie Vardy weren't even in the football league at that stage.

 

[WolfLing]

After Dawson came in, it was probably a toss up over who out of Collins and Kilman dropped out. Out of the two, Collins was arguably in better form, but Max's slightly greater experience and the fact he's left-sided is probably what saw him retain his place.

In the past, a lot of right footed centre backs have preferred playing on the left side of a CB partnership. It hasn't really mattered too much which foot a centre back preferred.

But it does seem to be more of a thing more recently, with a lot of left sided players preferred for the left sided centre back role. Arsenal playing Gabriel, Chelsea buying Badiashile, Spurs buying Lenglet, Newcastle using Botman there, City using Laprote or Ake and United playing Luke Shaw there ahead of more recognised central defenders. I think it's to do with the natural passing angles for teams who like to play out from the back. It allows the two centre backs to split wider and still be on their preferred passing feet.

From a balance perspective in terms of preferred feet, having right-footed Dawson and Collins for the right sided role and left-footed Kilman and Toti for the left sided role really works.

The experience thing is not really balanced though. We've got 1 very experienced player (Dawson), 1 with an average level of experience (Kilman) and 2 quite inexperienced (Collins & Toti).

The right side of the defence has a really good balance of experience now, whereas the left-side doesn't.

So if we are to bring another top centre back in during the summer, it might be that it's a left-sided replacement for one of Kilman or Toti. Pau Torres is a name that's been circulated amongst a few clubs in the past, and he's certainly the one I'd want!

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

After Dawson came in, it was probably a toss up over who out of Collins and Kilman dropped out. Out of the two, Collins was arguably in better form, but Max's slightly greater experience and the fact he's left-sided is probably what saw him retain his place.

In the past, a lot of right footed centre backs have preferred playing on the left side of a CB partnership. It hasn't really mattered too much which foot a centre back preferred.

But it does seem to be more of a thing more recently, with a lot of left sided players preferred for the left sided centre back role. Arsenal playing Gabriel, Chelsea buying Badiashile, Spurs buying Lenglet, Newcastle using Botman there, City using Laprote or Ake and United playing Luke Shaw there ahead of more recognised central defenders. I think it's to do with the natural passing angles for teams who like to play out from the back. It allows the two centre backs to split wider and still be on their preferred passing feet.

From a balance perspective in terms of preferred feet, having right-footed Dawson and Collins for the right sided role and left-footed Kilman and Toti for the left sided role really works.

The experience thing is not really balanced though. We've got 1 very experienced player (Dawson), 1 with an average level of experience (Kilman) and 2 quite inexperienced (Collins & Toti).

The right side of the defence has a really good balance of experience now, whereas the left-side doesn't.

So if we are to bring another top centre back in during the summer, it might be that it's a left-sided replacement for one of Kilman or Toti. Pau Torres is a name that's been circulated amongst a few clubs in the past, and he's certainly the one I'd want!

I think what people see as his aggression is actually what is keeping him out.
He wants to run everywhere without thinking, and it makes the 3 other players he is playing with look worse. There has been a real insistence this is what makes him better than the other guys, when really you see none of that in Dawson play. Positional discipline is the making of top centre halves. He really needs to learn it.

 

[fleck1]

We moan we don't have a squad, now we have one we want to sell everyone. Collins is clearly a talented young player why would we move him on, having an old head like Dawson in his ear everyday will do him the world of good. He is 21 being out of the side will do him no harm at the moment, he has his whole career ahead of him.

 

[WolfLing]

I think what people see as his aggression is actually what is keeping him out.
He wants to run everywhere without thinking, and it makes the 3 other players he is playing with look worse. There has been a real insistence this is what makes him better than the other guys, when really you see none of that in Dawson play. Positional discipline is the making of top centre halves. He really needs to learn it.

Agree, positionally he's a bit all over the place. But get him in the right place and he will win more duels than Kilman would in the same position. But Kilman would be in the right place more often!

Said it before, a combination of both of them would be an excellent CB.

 

[Matt]

I think the only reason Kilman is ahead of him is because he is left-footed and he gives us that natural balance with a right-footer in Dawson. I don’t think there is much between Collins and Kilman, to be honest, both are good on their day but inconsistent. Collins at 21 is ridiculously young still for a centre-half and he will go on to be a solid fixture in the starting XI. Just a bit of patience required.

 

[mac tíre]

Collins was dropped because Kilman needs Dawson's experience more, simples.

 

[Ned]

I think the only reason Kilman is ahead of him is because he is left-footed and he gives us that natural balance with a right-footer in Dawson. I don’t think there is much between Collins and Kilman, to be honest, both are good on their day but inconsistent. Collins at 21 is ridiculously young still for a centre-half and he will go on to be a solid fixture in the starting XI. Just a bit of patience required.

Exactly. 21 for any other position is fine and not that young. 21 for a centre back is still very young for the level of concentration required all game and he will only get better the more he plays.

 

[Mugwump]

Would i sell Collins? No, but at the same time i can see why people are saying we might. If he doesnt feature that much under Julen maybe he just isnt his type of player and a move could be the right thing for everyone.

 

[Ned]

Would i sell Collins? No, but at the same time i can see why people are saying we might. If he doesnt feature that much under Julen maybe he just isnt his type of player and a move could be the right thing for everyone.

The thing is that if Dawson is his type of player (which he seems to be) then Collins is a younger version of him so should be too.

 

[Mugwump]

The thing is that if Dawson is his type of player (which he seems to be) then Collins is a younger version of him so should be too.

Not really because Collins clearly lacks the calmness, positional sense and leadership of Dawson, which is understandable at his age. As much as we need good, young footballers, he might not want to be a bench player while we re-establish ourselves. If Julen bartely uses him, who knows what he will think.

I'd hope we keep him, but if we get a good offer for him and it makes a profit I think we might sell.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Don’t know what’s to discuss

He’s a good player but slightly inexperienced right now. Has signs to be a top player and top leader

 

[Mugwump]

Don’t know what’s to discuss

He’s a good player but slightly inexperienced right now. Has signs to be a top player and top leader

Its going to be down to if he is happy to be a backup center half at this stage as much as if Julen rates him.

 

[Ned]

Don’t know what’s to discuss

He’s a good player but slightly inexperienced right now. Has signs to be a top player and top leader

Exactly.

 

[lets all have a disco]

It's pretty obvious which centreback will be moved on in the summer....it will not be HOMEGROWN Collins ....it will be toti who is taking up a place in the foreign quota....

I think we might see David Garcia in the summer....

 

[Beijing Wolf]

Don’t know what’s to discuss

He’s a good player but slightly inexperienced right now. Has signs to be a top player and top leader

Excuse me! This is the Mix we don’t allow nuanced discussion here! Just pure hyperbole please!

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

There's fine margins to all this.

Dawson has been very good since joining but he misplaced a pass rather inexplicably against Liverpool and Salah should've made it 2-1 but missed.

Collins shanks a clearance at Anfield in a less dangerous position and Darwin Nunez ends up scoring.

Against Southampton Kilman drops a massive clanger but Sa bails him out and even though I wouldn't blame him there would be some who would have blamed Collins if he'd defended like Dawson for the Alcaraz goal.

For the majority of football fans the result is everything and I understand that.

But, if Salah scored from Dawson's error then I genuinely believe we don't win that game - and he would have rightly got pelters.
If Sulemana scores then we lose on Saturday and Kilman rightly gets pelters.

I honestly don't think there's much between the three centre-backs but I would lean towards Dawson starting and then Kilman plays because of the left foot factor. However, there's really not much between any of them and it's a good position to be in.

Collins can benefit from working with Dawson and in all honesty I would expect within 12-18 months he will be in the team.