Swedish fans stop VAR dead in its tracks

[derbyrameater]

While the clubs wanted to go down the VAR route, the fans got in before the clubs had a chance to screw football for the fans.

..
“VAR is a symbol of modern, commercialised-to-the-point-of-destruction football,” says Ola Thews, vice-chairman of AIK’s largest supporter organisation, ASK.

Thews is more than just a die-hard AIK fan. He played a part in mobilising anti-VAR sentiment among Sweden’s top clubs and helped push through a motion at AIK opposing the introduction of the technology, before the Swedish football federation had the chance to bring it in.

That’s possible because Swedish clubs are majority-controlled by members — essentially, supporters — under a regulation that states members should control at least 50 per cent of their club’s shares, plus one."..

VAR has changed the face of European football, but one country is holding out

www.morningstaronline.co.uk

 

[Watfordfc]

I guess the key is they never had it in the first place.

I suspect if given the chance at the time fans here would have said no too.

 

[wolvesjoe]

While the clubs wanted to go down the VAR route, the fans got in before the clubs had a chance to screw football for the fans.

..
“VAR is a symbol of modern, commercialised-to-the-point-of-destruction football,” says Ola Thews, vice-chairman of AIK’s largest supporter organisation, ASK.

Thews is more than just a die-hard AIK fan. He played a part in mobilising anti-VAR sentiment among Sweden’s top clubs and helped push through a motion at AIK opposing the introduction of the technology, before the Swedish football federation had the chance to bring it in.

That’s possible because Swedish clubs are majority-controlled by members — essentially, supporters — under a regulation that states members should control at least 50 per cent of their club’s shares, plus one."..

VAR has changed the face of European football, but one country is holding out

www.morningstaronline.co.uk

Same thing can happen here.....just needs the crowds to make it clear they want rid...won't even take long

 

[RMNottm]

Same thing can happen here.....just needs the crowds to make it clear they want rid...won't even take long

Too many would not go long, Too many sheeple I am afraid.

 

[ade123]

Nation-wide petition needed which links into all club fan forums needed. The petitions that get discussed in parliament would raise the profile. There have been a few that have not met the minimum number of signatures to get to parliament due to lack of awareness.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Nation-wide petition needed which links into all club fan forums needed. The petitions that get discussed in parliament would raise the profile. There have been a few that have not met the minimum number of signatures to get to parliament due to lack of awareness.

I think petitions to parliament are for a change in the law or government policy. There's no chance that the government (even via the regulator) are getting involved in whether VAR should be used. I think 100,000 signatures for an organised campaign would be easily achieved and pointless.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Nation-wide petition needed which links into all club fan forums needed. The petitions that get discussed in parliament would raise the profile. There have been a few that have not met the minimum number of signatures to get to parliament due to lack of awareness.

That rather assumes that fan forums are broadly representative of the wider fanbase. In practice they aren't (e.g. lots of overseas forum members).

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

I guess the key is they never had it in the first place.

I suspect if given the chance at the time fans here would have said no too.

I disagree. The animosity towards refs/linesmen before VAR was as bad as it is today. There were some woeful decisions that had fans up in arms. IIRC I think fans were in favour of VAR thinking it would clear issues up in real time. Little did we know how it would take over games and refs would be the centre of attention and not the players.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Whilst grounds are full nothing will change.

 

[Contrarian]

I disagree. The animosity towards refs/linesmen before VAR was as bad as it is today. There were some woeful decisions that had fans up in arms. IIRC I think fans were in favour of VAR thinking it would clear issues up in real time. Little did we know how it would take over games and refs would be the centre of attention and not the players.

Yes, that's how I remember it. To be clear, the VAR implementation we have is nothing like how I imagined. I thought it would be the on field referee still 100% in control of the match, just asking the VAR crew for replays if he needed them. Similar to how it was used when I first saw it in action a couple of World Cups ago. Not VAR scrutiny of every single goal. Not VAR telling referees to stop the match and wait for a few minutes as they make the decision in the back room.

If all VAR was, was a TV monitor crew who provided replays as requested by the referee and *only* when the ref requested them, with the ref going to the monitor and making the decision themself, I think it could be almost tolerable. The Premier League's actual implementation is an abomination, though. Before it's introduction, I naively thought it would even out some of the big club bias. It seems it's been implemented precisely to keep that bias intact.

And as we've now seen that VAR does nothing to reduce subjectivity from the game, perhaps if we scrapped it, fans would complain less about refs. Though even then, keep in mind that fans count for little. None of those in charge listen to fans. And they never did. VAR was never brought in because fans wanted it. The real complaining was by TV pundits - invariably ex-players for the Big 6 - going on and on, lambasting referees if they didn't give every difficult decision to their old clubs. They were the ones going over replays for hours, studying it from 6 different angles in slow motion, then behaving as if it was a crime against humanity if there was any doubt in the original decision, made at speed.

 

[Spitfire]

I guess the key is they never had it in the first place.

I suspect if given the chance at the time fans here would have said no too.

The advantage the Swedes had is they’ve seen what a mess it has been everywhere else.
This isn’t how it was sold to us. I think if we’d been in the Swedes position, then we’d have been against it. Whether the authorities, tv pundits etc. would have allowed us to veto it is another matter.

 

[Spitfire]

And as we've now seen that VAR does nothing to reduce subjectivity from the game, perhaps if we scrapped it, fans would complain less about refs. Though even then, keep in mind that fans count for little. None of those in charge listen to fans. And they never did. VAR was never brought in because fans wanted it. The real complaining was by TV pundits - invariably ex-players for the Big 6 - going on and on, lambasting referees if they didn't give every difficult decision to their old clubs. They were the ones going over replays for hours, studying it from 6 different angles in slow motion, then behaving as if it was a crime against humanity if there was any doubt in the original decision, made at speed.

Spot on mate.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Yes, that's how I remember it. To be clear, the VAR implementation we have is nothing like how I imagined. I thought it would be the on field referee still 100% in control of the match, just asking the VAR crew for replays if he needed them. Similar to how it was used when I first saw it in action a couple of World Cups ago. Not VAR scrutiny of every single goal. Not VAR telling referees to stop the match and wait for a few minutes as they make the decision in the back room.

If all VAR was, was a TV monitor crew who provided replays as requested by the referee and *only* when the ref requested them, with the ref going to the monitor and making the decision themself, I think it could be almost tolerable. The Premier League's actual implementation is an abomination, though. Before it's introduction, I naively thought it would even out some of the big club bias. It seems it's been implemented precisely to keep that bias intact.

And as we've now seen that VAR does nothing to reduce subjectivity from the game, perhaps if we scrapped it, fans would complain less about refs. Though even then, keep in mind that fans count for little. None of those in charge listen to fans. And they never did. VAR was never brought in because fans wanted it. The real complaining was by TV pundits - invariably ex-players for the Big 6 - going on and on, lambasting referees if they didn't give every difficult decision to their old clubs. They were the ones going over replays for hours, studying it from 6 different angles in slow motion, then behaving as if it was a crime against humanity if there was any doubt in the original decision, made at speed.

My memory is that they said something along the lines of 'there will be a VAR intervention every 3 or 4 games. I don't know what the stats are now, but the VAR effectively intervenes every time a goal is scored, by making the celebrations wait, it feels like we've had a lot more than one every 3 games, but maybe not, I'd have to think harder!

 

[WickedWolfie]

My memory is that they said something along the lines of 'there will be a VAR intervention every 3 or 4 games. I don't know what the stats are now, but the VAR effectively intervenes every time a goal is scored, by making the celebrations wait, it feels like we've had a lot more than one every 3 games, but maybe not, I'd have to think harder!

That is the key point. It's gone from by exception to being the default.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

That is the key point. It's gone from by exception to being the default.

Yes, literally is the default. Occasionally I think there might have been an offside or whatever, but the Chirewa and the Cunha ones I couldn't see any way they could be ruled out. No way anyone expected that sort of stuff when it was introduced.

 

[wwbug]

Same thing can happen here.....just needs the crowds to make it clear they want rid...won't even take long

Can’t see the owners wanting VAR either. So can’t the clubs vote it out ?

 

[Monketron]

I guess the key is they never had it in the first place.

I suspect if given the chance at the time fans here would have said no too.

I don't think we would have at the time without the hindsight we now have. VAR was sold as fixing all the problems, no more dodgy biased refs (every club assumed the ref was against them). How it would make offsides and the new handball rule, rule out way more goals than people expected, how it would ruin the spontaneity of celebrating a goal, until we actually experienced it all.

Sweden did well to wait and see.

 

[Watfordfc]

I don't think we would have at the time without the hindsight we now have. VAR was sold as fixing all the problems, no more dodgy biased refs (every club assumed the ref was against them). How it would make offsides and the new handball rule, rule out way more goals than people expected, how it would ruin the spontaneity of celebrating a goal, until we actually experienced it all.

Sweden did well to wait and see.

Yes agree.

If people knew it was going to be too subjective , lack any form of communication or take ages they wouldn't bother/

But then fans weren't asking for it really in the first p;ace.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Yes agree.

If people knew it was going to be too subjective , lack any form of communication or take ages they wouldn't bother/

But then fans weren't asking for it really in the first p;ace.

Yes, many did say that from the start. I've said before, but the Kalvin Phillips one against Newcastle sums up football for me, there were people on here who couldn't understand why anyone thought that wasn't a pen, whilst I (and many others) were mystified that anyone thought it was. It's impossible to codify, just to my thinking, anyone who understands football doesn't think it's a foul, in the same way that anyone who understands football doesn't think Chirewa is offside (but admittedly we're all biased in that one). The PGMOL told us it was right though, I think that's because they are like some sort of defective AI trying to write the rules rather than understanding the game.

 

[Jack Russell]

It isn't VAR that is the problem , it is the people running it. Since they seem incapable of moderation it should go ..NOW!

 

[jackdusty]

Well done Mr Antonio, maybe if more players spoke up you just never know.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1786358469605327317

 

[WickedWolfie]

It isn't VAR that is the problem , it is the people running it. Since they seem incapable of moderation it should go ..NOW!

PGMOL are crap....

VAR will fix that....

Who will run VAR?

PGMOL....

Spot the issue.....

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

It isn't VAR that is the problem , it is the people running it. Since they seem incapable of moderation it should go ..NOW!

What are you going to do, sack all the refs? Or just sack Webb? Because it's not that long since we were being told the answer was to sack Riley. The whole concept is just an abomination dreamt up by people who've never stood on a terrace.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

It isn't VAR that is the problem , it is the people running it. Since they seem incapable of moderation it should go ..NOW!

VAR is inclusive of the people running it

 

[Southdownswolf]

It isn't VAR that is the problem , it is the people running it. Since they seem incapable of moderation it should go ..NOW!

The people running it are VAR
.
.

 

[Jack Russell]

It isn't VAR that is the problem , it is the people running it. Since they seem incapable of moderation it should go ..NOW!

None of the replies seem to have read my comment properly. Perhaps this will help:

It isn't VAR that is the problem , it is the people running it. Since they seem incapable of moderation VAR should go ..NOW!

In other words get rid of VAR now!

 

[derbyrameater]

Can’t see the owners wanting VAR either. So can’t the clubs vote it out ?

As the articles says the clubs wanted it even though they could see the problems caused.

It was fan based organised opposition.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

As the articles says the clubs wanted it even though they could see the problems caused.

It was fan based organised opposition.

Exactly. What’s needed is a groundswell of opposition as big, or bigger than that against the ESL, and things would change.

 

[KnowNuttin]

I blame Willy Boly.. If he hadn't have punced that one in against Man City, we wouldn't be in this mess now.

The moment I realised it was going to be **** was When Neto's goal against the dippers was ruled out for offside by a midge's dick. The 'clear and obvious' mantra it was sold on was out the window. I do actually think it has resulted in fewer incorrect decisions, and I'm sure statistics that pro VAR people would point to would bear that out. But at what cost?

In my view it has exposed the lack of knowledge of the officials and rule makers more than ever. They now get to mull over a decision for 2 or 3 minutes either apply some finicky rule totally out of context with the game of football, or completely misinterpret the laws to either consciously or sub-consciously apply their bias. All while the paying customer is left completely in the dark about what's going on.

To stop this farce, the 'customers' need to turn their backs on the product. I know a few (but not many) who claim they have stopped going to football for this reason. The worse it gets, the more likely more will follow. But as someone has already said, if the stadiums remain full and the TV money keeps rolling in, nothing will drastically change.

The recent outburst from Forest was interesting. Whilst it was funny and a bit 'woe is me' from them, if everyone called out the officials in this way.. Action may be required from the authorities. GON has been quite reserved in the circumstance facing him this season, perhaps he should throws his toys a bit further from the pram.