Stadium Plans

[SteveBullsKnee]

I get that, I’m thinking more actual children. Let them in for next to nothing, get them in young and in 10-15 years they can go be the next cohort on the south bank. Ten years after that they can bring their kids and buy them shirts etc. Just get them in there.

You hit the nail on the head though it’s not my money!

To be fair they do get the cheap end of tickets. Cheapest under 14 ticket against Arsenal is £8 which is a Category A game, thats cheaper than 2 games of bowling at your local alley at the same age group.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Which is why we should go down the arena route with a roof instead of a stadium. A smaller-style Johan Cruyff Arena would be a great blueprint not just for Wolves but the area as a whole.

I quite like the idea of a dome. The atmosphere would be incredible and not even the front rows would get wet.

 

[loppers86]

I don’t think it matters in the short to medium term if it bring in more income or not. Spread the same revenue over the larger number of seats and have a lower per seat income, I don’t care. Get more fans in, get the kids in and brainwash the next generation. Demographics is destiny - I’m sure I read the average fan age at Molineux is 40 plus.we’ll soon be a dying breed.

This is the absolute elephant in the room - look at charlton and their gates - it’s not a god given right to be well supported…. If Fosun are in it for the long term this will be their biggest problem.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

What do we think of Blues prospects now? Remaining games
Cov (H), Rotherham and Hudds (both away) Norwich (H)

The Huddersfield game is huge and Norwich may need a win to cement play offs.

I for one hope they're building for a future in league one. It's long overdue.

 

[Ebbo]

We won't need a bigger stadium if VAR continues to destroy football for the match going fan.

 

[derbyrameater]

going by the 'sod it thread so many are giving up then no need for extra seats

 

[A wanderer from Bristol]

Don’t believe word tim spiers says amateur journalist. Spin doctor like keen & judah

A bit harsh

 

[Sussex Wolf]

It’s not being contrary because my opinion differs from yours. I know they don’t need to build a whole new stadium it’s literally what I said a few posts up we only have two that aren’t fit for purpose (you could argue, but I won’t that only one of them is genuinely not fit for purpose). I’m merely pointing out WHY it’s probably not an attractive investment for Fosun.

As I’ve previously said if the argument for a new stadium is for increased revenue to challenge the big boys then it’s wrong. If the argument for stand redevelopment due to them not being fit for purpose then I agree, however with the caveat that I don’t think Fosun WILL do it.

I don’t have anywhere near the knowledge to estimate it properly but what’s two new stands going to cost in the current market? £100 million? Maybe more? I just don’t see Fosun doing it.

Can’t disagree too much with that, or the post you replied to.

A sensible plan, in my view, would be as follows…

1. Refurbish and expand the Steve Bull stand. Replace the lower tier completely, bringing it forward and raise the rear to the height of the top of the current corporate boxes. Build an extension behind the stand (finished to match the North Bank), extending the upper tier to the height of the North Bank. New roof attached to the new rear extension, and new Corporate level created around the level of the existing upper concourse (roughly the same as the North Bank corporate area). All the old office areas knocked through to the stand combined with the rear extension allows for more spacious concourses and improved entry and exit routes. Finish the NE Quad and build the SE Quad to tie into the “new” Steve Bull. Capacity increases to 38k, and all the Steve Bull fan issues addressed.

2. Extend the South Bank single tier upwards and backwards to the height of the North Bank and refurbished Steve Bull, with a new far larger concourse. To the rear, create a new plaza area allowing fans to walk between the South Bank and Archives, and linking to the proposed pedestrian plaza over the ring road. Capacity increases to 42k, and we get a 10k “home safe standing stand” and improve access to the stadium before and after games.

3. If justified by demand / finances, rebuild the BW and fill in the two remaining corners to create a new main stand. Capacity increases to 50k, and the stadium is finished and comparable to the top tier clubs.

Fund the stadium project through a partnership with an investor which specialises in sports venues and can obtain low cost, long term finance.

Alongside the stadium itself, build an indoor box park / outdoor fanzone in the corner behind the South Bank and Waterloo Road. Used as a fan park on match days, a Uni social space during term time, and an occasional music / conference venue. Partner with BoxPark or similar, with the club generating income from the lease and share of the revenue.

 

[surreywolf]

Can’t disagree too much with that, or the post you replied to.

A sensible plan, in my view, would be as follows…

1. Refurbish and expand the Steve Bull stand. Replace the lower tier completely, bringing it forward and raise the rear to the height of the top of the current corporate boxes. Build an extension behind the stand (finished to match the North Bank), extending the upper tier to the height of the North Bank. New roof attached to the new rear extension, and new Corporate level created around the level of the existing upper concourse (roughly the same as the North Bank corporate area). All the old office areas knocked through to the stand combined with the rear extension allows for more spacious concourses and improved entry and exit routes. Finish the NE Quad and build the SE Quad to tie into the “new” Steve Bull. Capacity increases to 38k, and all the Steve Bull fan issues addressed.

2. Extend the South Bank single tier upwards and backwards to the height of the North Bank and refurbished Steve Bull, with a new far larger concourse. To the rear, create a new plaza area allowing fans to walk between the South Bank and Archives, and linking to the proposed pedestrian plaza over the ring road. Capacity increases to 42k, and we get a 10k “home safe standing stand” and improve access to the stadium before and after games.

3. If justified by demand / finances, rebuild the BW and fill in the two remaining corners to create a new main stand. Capacity increases to 50k, and the stadium is finished and comparable to the top tier clubs.

Fund the stadium project through a partnership with an investor which specialises in sports venues and can obtain low cost, long term finance.

Alongside the stadium itself, build an indoor box park / outdoor fanzone in the corner behind the South Bank and Waterloo Road. Used as a fan park on match days, a Uni social space during term time, and an occasional music / conference venue. Partner with BoxPark or similar, with the club generating income from the lease and share of the revenue.

I’d spend all my beer money at the ground if they did this at the back of the south bank Jeff.

Just imagine…. - arrive for breakfast, late morning tipple, couple of pints over the early game on big screens, hearty lunch, watch our game live, commiserate / celebrate over post match beers while watching the 530 kick off then stay for a curry, few more ales, some choons and finally a quick coronary

Bosh, job’s a good un Jeff, take my money big man & get it sorted

 

[wwbug]

Nobody really needs a new car , you can get by with what you have unless its knackered. Some cars will do 100,000 miles.
Why do people buy new cars ?

 

[HICKO]

Nobody really needs a new car , you can get by with what you have unless its knackered. Some cars will do 100,000 miles.
Why do people buy new cars ?

Smell innit

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Nobody really needs a new car , you can get by with what you have unless its knackered. Some cars will do 100,000 miles.
Why do people buy new cars ?

Because they can afford to, and want a shiny new car, not a squeaking, creaking, beat up one! Many people buy fairly recent used models as a compromise, but in some cases this is a false economy as the deals available on some new cars via brokers are similar to the prices of cars 12-18 months old.

But for a large number of people, it’s down to finance. They buy new cars on PCP contracts with small deposits and large balloon payments that they can’t afford to pay. When the contract ends, because they don’t have the cash to buy out the contract, they enter a new PCP contract, and this continues. Effectively they are leasing a new car every 3-4 years, paying a relatively low monthly payment, and never own the car outright. Like houses really. The average age by which people pay off their mortgages is 62, usually using some of the pension lump sum to pay off the outstanding balance.

 

[Minimalist]

Can’t disagree too much with that, or the post you replied to.

A sensible plan, in my view, would be as follows…

1. Refurbish and expand the Steve Bull stand. Replace the lower tier completely, bringing it forward and raise the rear to the height of the top of the current corporate boxes. Build an extension behind the stand (finished to match the North Bank), extending the upper tier to the height of the North Bank. New roof attached to the new rear extension, and new Corporate level created around the level of the existing upper concourse (roughly the same as the North Bank corporate area). All the old office areas knocked through to the stand combined with the rear extension allows for more spacious concourses and improved entry and exit routes. Finish the NE Quad and build the SE Quad to tie into the “new” Steve Bull. Capacity increases to 38k, and all the Steve Bull fan issues addressed.

2. Extend the South Bank single tier upwards and backwards to the height of the North Bank and refurbished Steve Bull, with a new far larger concourse. To the rear, create a new plaza area allowing fans to walk between the South Bank and Archives, and linking to the proposed pedestrian plaza over the ring road. Capacity increases to 42k, and we get a 10k “home safe standing stand” and improve access to the stadium before and after games.

3. If justified by demand / finances, rebuild the BW and fill in the two remaining corners to create a new main stand. Capacity increases to 50k, and the stadium is finished and comparable to the top tier clubs.

Fund the stadium project through a partnership with an investor which specialises in sports venues and can obtain low cost, long term finance.

Alongside the stadium itself, build an indoor box park / outdoor fanzone in the corner behind the South Bank and Waterloo Road. Used as a fan park on match days, a Uni social space during term time, and an occasional music / conference venue. Partner with BoxPark or similar, with the club generating income from the lease and share of the revenue.

If you did all that to the Steve bull I’d suspect it would cost as much (or nearly) as just knocking it down and re building it. And the various lines and gradients of it still wouldn’t properly match up.

I do think the expense and difficulty of deconstructing that stand gets exaggerated to provide an excuse not to do it.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

If you did all that to the Steve bull I’d suspect it would cost as much (or nearly) as just knocking it down and re building it. And the various lines and gradients of it still wouldn’t properly match up.

I do think the expense and difficulty of deconstructing that stand gets exaggerated to provide an excuse not to do it.

Possibly true, but only going on what’s been reported via official channels in the past. It’s been said that demolition would take a year or so, and I imagine the cost of removing and disposing the concrete structure would be significant. As an example, Barcelona have not completely demolished the Nu Camp in its massive and expensive rebuild. They’ve demolished part of it, but retained the majority of the concrete bowl, onto which a large new outer / upper tier will be added. I was inspired by that in my suggestion.

For the Steve Bull, we already know the lower tier is fairly easily removed, and can be done without affecting the main structure. Building a new rear structure and roof would be no more expensive than had the entire stand been demolished since it’s self supporting and the foundations would be behind the current stand. After that it’s a question of removing / refurbishing the main structure so as to achieve the desired end result. Whether you move the corporate as I’ve suggested or leave it at the same level, is really down to what they want to create.

You’re right the angles and gradients will differ from the North Bank, but that’s not a major issue to resolve in the corners, and is done in many stadiums which have developed piecemeal. Even brand new stadiums like Spurs have to resolve discontinuities like the join between their multi tier main stand and the single tier home stand.

 

[Minimalist]

Possibly true, but only going on what’s been reported via official channels in the past. It’s been said that demolition would take a year or so, and I imagine the cost of removing and disposing the concrete structure would be significant. As an example, Barcelona have not completely demolished the Nu Camp in its massive and expensive rebuild. They’ve demolished part of it, but retained the majority of the concrete bowl, onto which a large new outer / upper tier will be added. I was inspired by that in my suggestion.

For the Steve Bull, we already know the lower tier is fairly easily removed, and can be done without affecting the main structure. Building a new rear structure and roof would be no more expensive than had the entire stand been demolished since it’s self supporting and the foundations would be behind the current stand. After that it’s a question of removing / refurbishing the main structure so as to achieve the desired end result. Whether you move the corporate as I’ve suggested or leave it at the same level, is really down to what they want to create.

You’re right the angles and gradients will differ from the North Bank, but that’s not a major issue to resolve in the corners, and is done in many stadiums which have developed piecemeal. Even brand new stadiums like Spurs have to resolve discontinuities like the join between their multi tier main stand and the single tier home stand.

One problem would be the spacing of the steps the seats are on, they are small and thus it is cramped.

Perhaps you could demolish more of it and just build over the major columns so the end result looked to match the north stand, but my instinct is that that would create problems that would make it harder than just demolishing completely.

There is apparently also a minor issue of some subsidence, not an immediate problem but one that might make incorporating the old structure into a new somewhat of a risk. Especially if the new structure was bigger and heavier.

I think it should be very minimal work to it, or a complete rebuild…

 

[Sussex Wolf]

One problem would be the spacing of the steps the seats are on, they are small and thus it is cramped.

Perhaps you could demolish more of it and just build over the major columns so the end result looked to match the north stand, but my instinct is that that would create problems that would make it harder than just demolishing completely.

There is apparently also a minor issue of some subsidence, not an immediate problem but one that might make incorporating the old structure into a new somewhat of a risk. Especially if the new structure was bigger and heavier.

I think it should be very minimal work to it, or a complete rebuild…

Yes, the seat space is an issue. I worked on the basis, that it’s entirely fixed in the new lower tier, and would be for any upper tier extension. Beyond that, it’s a question of how to resolve in the existing upper tier.

An option would be removal of the existing concrete terrace and replacement. Complicated, but not impossible.

In my case, I assumed that the lower half of the upper tier would become corporate / hospitality and in this area, and a simple solution would be to use two existing rows to create a new more spacious row. It’s not very space efficient, but it’s the premium seating so generates more income per seat.

That leaves the remaining upper tier above the hospitality level. That could simply be left with the current spacing, with the slightly more spacious seats in only the new uppermost section. Or that area of the terrace could be removed and replaced.

The Steve Bull is the only stand where I think it may make sense to retain at least some of the existing structure in any stadium rebuild. Obviously it would be easier to completely remove it as well, and if there were any structural concerns, then I assume it would be the preferred approach to demolish it all and start again.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Yes, the seat space is an issue. I worked on the basis, that it’s entirely fixed in the new lower tier, and would be for any upper tier extension. Beyond that, it’s a question of how to resolve in the existing upper tier.

An option would be removal of the existing concrete terrace and replacement. Complicated, but not impossible.

In my case, I assumed that the lower half of the upper tier would become corporate / hospitality and in this area, and a simple solution would be to use two existing rows to create a new more spacious row. It’s not very space efficient, but it’s the premium seating so generates more income per seat.

That leaves the remaining upper tier above the hospitality level. That could simply be left with the current spacing, with the slightly more spacious seats in only the new uppermost section. Or that area of the terrace could be removed and replaced.

The Steve Bull is the only stand where I think it may make sense to retain at least some of the existing structure in any stadium rebuild. Obviously it would be easier to completely remove it as well, and if there were any structural concerns, then I assume it would be the preferred approach to demolish it all and start again.

I’m no contractor but I’d think getting machinery in place to demolish the Steve Bull would be the issue.

 

[Minimalist]

I’m no contractor but I’d think getting machinery in place to demolish the Steve Bull would be the issue.

I’d think completely demolishing it would be fine access wise, but it could be an issue if you wanted to gently pick apart certain bits of it.
Particularly taking the roof off.

 

[surreywolf]

been watching American football player JJ Watt on The Overlap talk about how he’s got involved with Burnley and he speaks about talking to several clubs about investing, but Burnley were most keen and the most generous in control they would offer him

Wonder if he or his reps spoke to us?

With this and what’s happening at Blues, surely evidence of lots of potential American investors out there. I just wonder if rumours of LA FC or other US involvement are true, and that’s greasing the wheels for Fosun / Jeff ground discussions which is why we’re seeing pics of WM Mayor with Jeff

fingers crossed

 

[SmokeyGB]

I think the perfect stadium for club our size is Juventus new stadium.

But I do love the feel of Molinuex as it is 4 different stands, not a lego bowl.

 

[wwbug]

Because they can afford to, and want a shiny new car, not a squeaking, creaking, beat up one! Many people buy fairly recent used models as a compromise, but in some cases this is a false economy as the deals available on some new cars via brokers are similar to the prices of cars 12-18 months old.

But for a large number of people, it’s down to finance. They buy new cars on PCP contracts with small deposits and large balloon payments that they can’t afford to pay. When the contract ends, because they don’t have the cash to buy out the contract, they enter a new PCP contract, and this continues. Effectively they are leasing a new car every 3-4 years, paying a relatively low monthly payment, and never own the car outright. Like houses really. The average age by which people pay off their mortgages is 62, usually using some of the pension lump sum to pay off the outstanding balance.

The point I was trying to make , in relation to the stadium (and obtusely !) there is a difference between want and need.
And I can fully understand why fans feel WWFC could do with a new stadium.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I think the perfect stadium for club our size is Juventus new stadium.

But I do love the feel of Molinuex as it is 4 different stands, not a lego bowl.

I’ve always felt that. It’s a personal thing but I much prefer 4 stands rather than a wraparound stadium

 

[Wolf316]

I’ve always felt that. It’s a personal thing but I much prefer 4 stands rather than a wraparound stadium

Couldn’t agree more.

 

[wwbug]

The Premier League is a Premium product at a Premium Price.
Much of Molineux is tired and dated . And the beer and food service is abysmal.
But then a little bit of preplanning for the half time rush wouldn't go amiss and involve no capital expenditure. .

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Don’t believe word tim spiers says amateur journalist. Spin doctor like keen & judah

This the same Tim Spiers who pined for Lambert and was critical of the Nuno appointment and frosty towards him?

That "spin doctor"?

It's fine to not like him or be critical of his work but to label him falsely is ridiculous.

It reduces the gravity of your words on this subject and calls in to question your future wisdom.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

The Premier League is a Premium product at a Premium Price.
Much of Molineux is tired and dated . And the beer and food service is abysmal.
But then a little bit of preplanning for the half time rush wouldn't go amiss and involve no capital expenditure. .

Service before the game and half time is woeful. Poorly trained and lethargic staff. I remember going to Leeds a few seasons back at half time and they’d got a shelf filled with pre poured beer (they’d got the pumps that pour 5 at a time). Strolled up, brought two pints and walked off all in 30 seconds. If you don’t go on 35 mins at the wolves, you aren’t getting one. There’s 4 in our group and we take it in turns to bite the bullet and miss 10 mins. Now I get the argument that you don’t HAVE to have a pint at half time, but surely the choice should be if you want to have one!

 

[lets all have a disco]

Service before the game and half time is woeful. Poorly trained and lethargic staff. I remember going to Leeds a few seasons back at half time and they’d got a shelf filled with pre poured beer (they’d got the pumps that pour 5 at a time). Strolled up, brought two pints and walked off all in 30 seconds. If you don’t go on 35 mins at the wolves, you aren’t getting one. There’s 4 in our group and we take it in turns to bite the bullet and miss 10 mins. Now I get the argument that you don’t HAVE to have a pint at half time, but surely the choice should be if you want to have one!

You can't move at Leeds in the concourses....if ever there is a death trap it's Leeds.....just like Everton....In fact Leeds you struggle to breath it's that bad........how ever that passses elf n safety regs....ya struggle getting near the bar...

 

[wwbug]

Service before the game and half time is woeful. Poorly trained and lethargic staff. I remember going to Leeds a few seasons back at half time and they’d got a shelf filled with pre poured beer (they’d got the pumps that pour 5 at a time). Strolled up, brought two pints and walked off all in 30 seconds. If you don’t go on 35 mins at the wolves, you aren’t getting one. There’s 4 in our group and we take it in turns to bite the bullet and miss 10 mins. Now I get the argument that you don’t HAVE to have a pint at half time, but surely the choice should be if you want to have one!

Couldn't agree more. And the Leeds experience shows it can be done. Pre poured beer seems a great solution and with cash free payment it could be so quick - may have time for two pints each ! The franchise that owns the contract at WWFC would make much more money if it served beer quickly.

 

[Mardenboroughs Shoulder]

I think the perfect stadium for club our size is Juventus new stadium.

But I do love the feel of Molinuex as it is 4 different stands, not a lego bowbowl

How would we move it over from Italy and hoe much would they want for it?

 

[bigwolf]

Service before the game and half time is woeful. Poorly trained and lethargic staff. I remember going to Leeds a few seasons back at half time and they’d got a shelf filled with pre poured beer (they’d got the pumps that pour 5 at a time). Strolled up, brought two pints and walked off all in 30 seconds. If you don’t go on 35 mins at the wolves, you aren’t getting one. There’s 4 in our group and we take it in turns to bite the bullet and miss 10 mins. Now I get the argument that you don’t HAVE to have a pint at half time, but surely the choice should be if you want to have one!

I'm pretty sure they have a competition on match days to see who can be the slowest.

It's ****in ridiculous.

I get pay is not great but it's not an excuse. Management of those staff is awful.

Jeff should spend some time in the Southbank concourse.

 

[Kebab Warrior]

I'm pretty sure they have a competition on match days to see who can be the slowest.

It's ****in ridiculous.

I get pay is not great but it's not an excuse. Management of those staff is awful.

Jeff should spend some time in the Southbank concourse.

Try the Steve Bull, I thought they were mannequins!
As for the Graham Hughes stand forget it. It’s like being in a Moscow bread line during the Cold War.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I’ve always felt that. It’s a personal thing but I much prefer 4 stands rather than a wraparound stadium

I am not a fan of an athletics style bowl (eg new West Ham stadium), but I do like the corners enclosed. Not only does it intensify the noise, but since our season is largely played in the colder months, it eliminates the freezing cold winds and rain blowing into your face. It also enables a much larger capacity while keeping the stands smaller and seats closer to the pitch.

The old Molineux I knew as a kid, before the “new stand” and SJH’s rebuild, was four stands, but the corners were filled or almost enclosed. I would have liked to have seen SJH’s open corners filled in instead of Morgan’s big new North Bank.

 

[Monketron]

I quite like the idea of a dome. The atmosphere would be incredible and not even the front rows would get wet.

Especially with climate change. Wetter winters and hotter summers (which are only going to get worse over time) means an air conditioned roofed stadium would be a real advantage. All a pipe dream though, sadly.

 

[hollo]

How would we move it over from Italy and hoe much would they want for it?

38,000 is too small. Have some ambition.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

Can you all stop knocking the caterers please, they’ll be supplying our kit next year.

 

[surreywolf]

Can you all stop knocking the caterers please, they’ll be supplying our kit next year.

Balti pie stains on the home kit in homage to the tyre kit look

Do your worst Vinny

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

This the same Tim Spiers who pined for Lambert and was critical of the Nuno appointment and frosty towards him?

That "spin doctor"?

It's fine to not like him or be critical of his work but to label him falsely is ridiculous.

It reduces the gravity of your words on this subject and calls in to question your future wisdom.

All he ever tried to do was cause controversy when things wasn’t going well…. All for clicks. He is not a good journalist. No doubt you probably know him!!

 

[Abbobrom]

I sit on the end of a row in the Upper Steve Bull. On average I have to stand up at least twenty times a match as people arrive late, and after a few minutes get up for the toilet. They return and about ten minutes before half time they set of for the bar again. The second half kicks off and after about five/ten minutes they return, before another trip to the toilets ensures.

Better facilities eg, bar and toilets would help the situation.

It does however, save me from an expensive Gym membership!!!

 

[lostwolf]

I’ve always felt that. It’s a personal thing but I much prefer 4 stands rather than a wraparound stadium

Same here. The Hayward Molineux though did have stands ridiculously far from the pitch, which I think often affects the atmosphere. Selhurst and the City Ground have worse individual stands but work better as grounds. Anfield, Villa Park and Hillsborough are great examples (obvious issues with the latter apart) of 4 stand, organically developed British-style grounds that are big and work.

The North Bank mark III rectified that to some extent, and a rebuilt Bully flush to the pitch would have Molineux looking great, with or without any extension to the South Bank. (A corner between those stands could house the singing/standing fans in J10.)

 

[jackdusty]

Especially with climate change. Wetter winters and hotter summers (which are only going to get worse over time) means an air conditioned roofed stadium would be a real advantage. All a pipe dream though, sadly.

Thanks Greta