Stadium Plans

[Tony]

They'll just give the SB a link of paint and wait for it to be condemned.

 

[Golden_Wolf]

No issues with what they've said re the stadium to be honest & makes sense.

Not as simple as some mention on here.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Because I know this statistic to be untrue I thought I'd Google where you got your information...

Statista would be my guess, one of the first sites to offer up what you're looking for and giving the magic 44k.

Did you look at everyone else's average attendance? Didn't raise any questions? Didn't read the "further information"?

"Due to Covid restrictions, the final 92 PL games were played behind closed doors"

Fair enough, i stand corrected there. West Ham have a bigger fanbase though because the catchment area is so much bigger. There is no way we'd hit 60k. Not a chance.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Fair enough, i stand corrected there. West Ham have a bigger fanbase though because the catchment area is so much bigger. There is no way we'd hit 60k. Not a chance.

I don't think 60k would ever be needed. 45-50k though, absolutely.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

I don't think 60k would ever be needed. 45-50k though, absolutely.

45k would be our top end i think, could easily do that in stages but not with financial situation as things are for a while.

 

[Bob Wolf]

I really don't like that concept art for the outside of the stadium. Not enough black tbh - and West Brom would be delighted to see that it really does look like a 'Custard bowl'.

Seems that a lot of Wolves fans really like the way it looks though - what am I missing?

Wouldn’t worry about what West Brom fans think of our stadium. I’ve seen bullet wounds more attractive than their ground. It looks like a really poor replica of the Oldbury sainsburys.

 

[TheConcourse]

Whatever the rebuild looks like they need to get away from building something for the football club. You can't build a venue that's used for 9 months of the year every other weekend and invest hundreds of millions into it.

And that's the kicker for me. Why Wolverhampton? Where's the additional value? Could they build an arena for events.. would that take away from the atmosphere? Could they incorporate other sports?

It's such a huge project. Steve Morgan really didn't think about where the world was heading when he lumped on the South Bank rebuild. Fosun can't afford to do the same or they'll have a giant structure hosting Championship football.

Honestly, I'd rather they did something more radical with their money. I floated the idea of a major European training complex for the club to attract talent and improve its reach. I'd invest in something like that as a way to improve young player attraction.

 

[Oliwolf44]

If we complain about ticket price rises then lets not suddenly say they should be investing a fortune in a new stadium. Especially with economy and covid etc. Lets have a bit of balance. The stadium aint happening for a long time, I'd be worried if they were thinking about it more than anything!

 

[Wandsworth Wolf]

What was interesting on the stadium Q&A was how the payback period got longer and longer as each person spoke.

Jeff said any redevelopment could take 15 years until we saw a return on the investment, then the marketing guy said 15-20 years and then the commercial guy said 25 years.

 

[Kebab Warrior]

If we complain about ticket price rises then lets not suddenly say they should be investing a fortune in a new stadium. Especially with economy and covid etc. Lets have a bit of balance. The stadium aint happening for a long time, I'd be worried if they were thinking about it more than anything!

You’ve got it all wrong there pal, it’s only 13% of revenue so doesn’t count and anyway ‘they should just put their hands in their pocket’.... because.... because... errrr...

 

[Oliwolf44]

You’ve got it all wrong there pal, it’s only 13% of revenue so doesn’t count and anyway ‘they should just put their hands in their pocket’.... because.... because... errrr...

Its not about them putting their hands in their pockets. Its about fair ticket prices for a working class city where nearly a third live on the poverty line.
But asking them to pay hundreds of millions for a new stadium is hypocritical

 

[RMNottm]

If we complain about ticket price rises then lets not suddenly say they should be investing a fortune in a new stadium. Especially with economy and covid etc. Lets have a bit of balance. The stadium aint happening for a long time, I'd be worried if they were thinking about it more than anything!

Honest assessment, If the local fanbase cannot fund stadium development there will not be development. Global fanbase is very important but the majority of bums on seats will be local (120 mile radius on global scale)

 

[Kebab Warrior]

Its not about them putting their hands in their pockets. Its about fair ticket prices for a working class city where nearly a third live on the poverty line.
But asking them to pay hundreds of millions for a new stadium is hypocritical

But fair in relation to what? What if sustaining elite / European football is beyond the pocket of the working class man for a season ticket? Or at least stretches it?
Should Fosun operate at a loss? Do we accept champ level? Or Div 1?

There’s seems to be an assumption that we should be able to challenge Liverpool and City and everything should cost what it did 5 years ago and never go up.

it’s just not realistic.

 

[Oliwolf44]

But fair in relation to what? What if sustaining elite / European football is beyond the pocket of the working man? Or at least stretches it?
Should Fosun operate at a loss? Do we accept champ level? Or Div 1?

There’s seems to be an assumption that we should be able to challenge Liverpool and City and everything should cost what it did 5 years ago and never go up.

it’s just not realistic.

Borussia Dortmund are more elite than we are and their most expensive is €180. They also have a much bigger wage bill and costs. So how does that figure? Yes they have a bigger stadium but those maths still dont add up.

Just that £400/£450 seems fair to me in the modern world.

I'd argue the ticket prices at Liverpool and Man Utd are too expensive also but thats a separate issue

 

[Jay Jay de Wolf]

Jeff Shi discusses plans to expand Molineux and potential new stadium

Wolves executive chairman Jeff Shi has been asked about his plans to develop and expand Molineux. Shi and other senior figures at the club undertaken...

www.molineux.news

 

[Kebab Warrior]

Having listened to what they’ve said, they won’t spend on the stadium until they can fund it properly and market conditions are right, so it doesn’t **** us over.

FFS if ANY club should understand that aim it’s us given our history.

 

[Warrington_Wolf]

If I understand correctly, the cost of any stadium development, training ground development or the upgrade of any commercial facilities doesn't count towards a club's FFP position.

If that is the case, there isn't really an argument to put the work on hold. If FOSUN are committed to the club for the long term, they will see a return on investment if they plough the money into the upgrade. If they are waiting for the club to run at a profit large enough that we can use those monies for the stadium expansion, I think they will be waiting for a long time.

 

[thisisgil]

This is a great yardstick of where we are with a club.

We've gone from

WHEN ARE WE BUILDING NEW SCREENS FFS MOXLEY

to

WHEN ARE WE BUILD NEW STANDS FFS JEFF

in the space of 15 years

 

[Kebab Warrior]

Borussia Dortmund are more elite than we are and their most expensive is €180. They also have a much bigger wage bill and costs. So how does that figure? Yes they have a bigger stadium but those maths still dont add up.

Just that £400/£450 seems fair to me in the modern world.

I'd argue the ticket prices at Liverpool and Man Utd are too expensive also but thats a separate issue

Dortmund’s revenue was nearly 400 million euros! They have an 81k capacity stadium!

 

[Kebab Warrior]

If I understand correctly, the cost of any stadium development, training ground development or the upgrade of any commercial facilities doesn't count towards a club's FFP position.

If that is the case, there isn't really an argument to put the work on hold. If FOSUN are committed to the club for the long term, they will see a return on investment if they plough the money into the upgrade. If they are waiting for the club to run at a profit large enough that we can use those monies for the stadium expansion, I think they will be waiting for a long time.

That absolutely isn’t what they said. They said they have to borrow the money at the right rate / moment.
I doubt they have 400 million under Jeff’s desk.

 

[Deleted member 4456]

That absolutely isn’t what they said. They said they have to borrow the money at the right rate / moment.
I doubt they have 400 million under Jeff’s desk.

Exactly this. We're in the territory where an extra 1% of interest on top of the principal capital cost can make a huge difference. If we're to rebuild the stadium either on the current site or elsewhere, we don't want it to become a millstone that holds us back for a decade like Ashburton Grove was for Arsenal.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

My main gripe is actually with Steve Morgan building a wonky massive stand that just looms over the rest of Molineux.

If he’d have just built a two tier stand (as it is) without that corner section the ground would currently look so much tidier.

Better still, just do the Steve Bull stand first, the north bank was miles from the pitch, but to be fair it was a perfectly fine stand whereas the Steve Bull is on its last legs.

Fosun won’t be doing anything to Molineux anytime soon and it does surprise some people on here are actually shocked. It’s not in their interest to spunk millions on bricks and mortar currently, and quite frankly I don’t think it ever has been.

 

[Kebab Warrior]

I think the fundamental crux of the stadium issue this:

club - we’re buying a lovely house but not until I get the right mortgage rate and I’m 100% sure I can afford it

fans - BUT DADDY IS LOADED!!!

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

That absolutely isn’t what they said. They said they have to borrow the money at the right rate / moment.
I doubt they have 400 million under Jeff’s desk.

can understand the moment but thought interest rates are at historic low levels
fosun must know interest rates are going up but they will never be as low again unless we have another pandemic

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Its not about them putting their hands in their pockets. Its about fair ticket prices for a working class city where nearly a third live on the poverty line.
But asking them to pay hundreds of millions for a new stadium is hypocritical

If you live on the poverty line I doubt it would make a difference if its £25 or £45 a ticket, you cant afford it.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

can understand the moment but thought interest rates are at historic low levels
fosun must know interest rates are going up but they will never be as low again unless we have another pandemic

Yeah the interest rate stuff is a canard. He should just be honest, say they got the roi wrong on stadium and it won't happen unless we are consistently in Europe

 

[SmokeyGB]

What Stadium plans ?

What Stadium plans ?

 

[Chris H]

If I understand correctly, the cost of any stadium development, training ground development or the upgrade of any commercial facilities doesn't count towards a club's FFP position.

If that is the case, there isn't really an argument to put the work on hold. If FOSUN are committed to the club for the long term, they will see a return on investment if they plough the money into the upgrade. If they are waiting for the club to run at a profit large enough that we can use those monies for the stadium expansion, I think they will be waiting for a long time.

According to Fosun’s last set of financial figures, their statement of cash flows shows a cashflow position for the parent company of roughly £2.7bn at 31 December 2020.

You honestly expect them to drop £400m of that in to Wolves, one of their smaller companies, to spend on a new stadium and you think their shareholders and other stakeholders would just be fine with that because Guo wants Wolves to have a nice new stadium? It’s not solely his money to do with as he pleases. Even if Wolves genuinely are an important asset to Fosun they still have a duty of care to their stakeholders and have already put the best part of £200m in to us in buying and supporting the club.

I think some people (not necessarily saying this is you) see that Fosun are worth £70bn or whatever ridiculously high figure it is today and think that means they have that sat in the bank. Most of it is tied up in assets. They’re an investment firm so are more asset rich than cash rich.

If we were/are ever going to do it, it would be financed by bank loans. The problem is banks are nervous about lending, especially to an industry that prides itself on recklessly spending beyond its means. This means interest rates are a decent chunk above base rate. So as and when the base rate picks up that would only get worse on a loan that would likely be over 20 odd years.

It’s easy to say now is as good a time to borrow as any because interest rates are so low, but they can only go one way eventually from here and a 1% to 2% increase on a £400m loan isn’t exactly pocket change is it?

I’d love them to build a nice new stadium, I just think the reality of it now that it’s here has made them realise it isn’t as simple and cost effective as they thought it might be.

I get the feeling when they put the plans out to garner support, they were hoping for some positive noises from local government about financial support for it. After all, it’ll benefit the city as a whole if they can develop it as a multi purpose arena and attract events in to the city and footfall. I reckon when the council stayed very quiet on it, and things like the grand flyover plans were replaced by a hole in a wall and a set of traffic lights and a crossing instead, they realised this wasn’t forthcoming so have dialled back on the plans.

 

[reanswolf]

I do understand why this is currently a non-starter sadly.

 

[AndyWolves]

I do understand why this is currently a non-starter sadly.

Yeah, totally agree. Unless we can get a risk free loan from the govt or council nothing will happen.

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

Having seen the damage that stadium and stand rebuilds have done to us and others Fosun have taken the pragmatic route. I’d love a nice plush stadium but unfortunately it’s unlikely that the Olympics or Commonwealth games are going to be happening in Wolverhampton soon to build a nice new stadium for our use.

 

[greco wolf]

According to Fosun’s last set of financial figures, their statement of cash flows shows a cashflow position for the parent company of roughly £2.7bn at 31 December 2020.

You honestly expect them to drop £400m of that in to Wolves, one of their smaller companies, to spend on a new stadium and you think their shareholders and other stakeholders would just be fine with that because Guo wants Wolves to have a nice new stadium? It’s not solely his money to do with as he pleases. Even if Wolves genuinely are an important asset to Fosun they still have a duty of care to their stakeholders and have already put the best part of £200m in to us in buying and supporting the club.

I think some people (not necessarily saying this is you) see that Fosun are worth £70bn or whatever ridiculously high figure it is today and think that means they have that sat in the bank. Most of it is tied up in assets. They’re an investment firm so are more asset rich than cash rich.

If we were/are ever going to do it, it would be financed by bank loans. The problem is banks are nervous about lending, especially to an industry that prides itself on recklessly spending beyond its means. This means interest rates are a decent chunk above base rate. So as and when the base rate picks up that would only get worse on a loan that would likely be over 20 odd years.

It’s easy to say now is as good a time to borrow as any because interest rates are so low, but they can only go one way eventually from here and a 1% to 2% increase on a £400m loan isn’t exactly pocket change is it?

I’d love them to build a nice new stadium, I just think the reality of it now that it’s here has made them realise it isn’t as simple and cost effective as they thought it might be.

I get the feeling when they put the plans out to garner support, they were hoping for some positive noises from local government about financial support for it. After all, it’ll benefit the city as a whole if they can develop it as a multi purpose arena and attract events in to the city and footfall. I reckon when the council stayed very quiet on it, and things like the grand flyover plans were replaced by a hole in a wall and a set of traffic lights and a crossing instead, they realised this wasn’t forthcoming so have dialled back on the plans.

Agreed. And this is what we did in 1979 with the steve bull stand. Borrowed money and interest rates killed us and nearly out wolves out of business

don’t get me wrong. I sit in the steve bull and would love a new stand. But rather see us in the top 8 with ground as it is than in league 1 with a new stand.
Hopefully little improvements / re co fig of what we have plus the corners filled in

 

[Shergar]

As an aside, I know the fabricated steel package that they looked at for the costings of the SB a couple of years ago is now nearly 3x the price of what it was then. And currently unavailable.

 

[Chris H]

Agreed. And this is what we did in 1979 with the steve bull stand. Borrowed money and interest rates killed us and nearly out wolves out of business

don’t get me wrong. I sit in the steve bull and would love a new stand. But rather see us in the top 8 with ground as it is than in league 1 with a new stand.
Hopefully little improvements / re co fig of what we have plus the corners filled in

In hindsight if Morgan was going to do a stand, he should have done the Steve Bull first. That was the one that needed it most. The rest of the rebuild could have been done as and when needed around that and it wouldn’t have looked as lopsided as it does now.

 

[Wolf Pack leader]

In todays video Jeff went on about FOSUN needing to borrow to fund the redevelopment of Molineux - I get that.

Currently interest rates are at an all time low - So it will never be cheaper to fund Stand improvements/replacement.

If they pressed the start button on redevelopment, it would not be finished until things are back to normal and the ground can be full again

Does not make financial sense to delay to me ??

 

[Pintandkebab]

Will be totally honest , I am not really bothered about the stadium . Yes we need it for more revenue etc but I want a better team on teh pitch. Players win you things Stadiums look nice end of .

 

[Chiswick_Wolf]

Just so people can see the true cost of borrowing, the quoted £400m to fund a rebuild of the stadium at the stated 2% interest per annum over 20 years, would cost £196m in interest, so it would actually cost the club £596m. An eye watering amount and not one you're likely to see much return on 19 Premier League games a season and a handful of cup games.

 

[Chiswick_Wolf]

In todays video Jeff went on about FOSUN needing to borrow to fund the redevelopment of Molineux - I get that.

Currently interest rates are at an all time low - So it will never be cheaper to fund Stand improvements/replacement.

If they pressed the start button on redevelopment, it would not be finished until things are back to normal and the ground can be full again

Does not make financial sense to delay to me ??

That's interest rates to put your money in a bank, or fund a house purchase which are generally considered a safe investment. To fund huge capital projects with an uncertain future for the whole world, the banks won't be charging the same interest.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Just so people can see the true cost of borrowing, the quoted £400m to fund a rebuild of the stadium at the stated 2% interest per annum over 20 years, would cost £196m in interest, so it would actually cost the club £596m. An eye watering amount and not one you're likely to see much return on 19 Premier League games a season and a handful of cup games.

so never going to get done

 

[Minimalist]

In hindsight if Morgan was going to do a stand, he should have done the Steve Bull first. That was the one that needed it most. The rest of the rebuild could have been done as and when needed around that and it wouldn’t have looked as lopsided as it does now.

The problems with that though are, the bull would be by far the most expensive stand to rebuild , if you bring it closer to the pitch without the curve and with slightly more spacious seats your gonna probably actually lessen capacity and a big part of the appeal to Morgan to do the nb was the extra corporate part.

But I do dislike the fact the pitch is no longer square with the BW.
Morgan was never going to follow the job through so should have just done the south bank corners as per sir jacks original plans. Or just left well alone!