Stadium Plans

[Sussex Wolf]

So the council own the land which still makes things difficult

It does, but only to the degree the club need the council’s permission for changes to the stadium, which of course they’d also need even if they owned the freehold. The council have more say as the owner of the land than just as the planning authority, but in practice it makes little difference. For financing and such like, the length of the club’s lease makes it little different than if the club owned the land.

There are other clubs with similar relationships over their stadiums and it’s not stopping them from making or planning substantial investments.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Don’t think Fosun see the stadium as priority given they don’t own the stadium the council do.

They own the leasehold which has over 900 years left on it.

The only point of issue in it differing from a freehold is that through a leasehold a restriction is imposed that the grounds primary use is to be for sporting purpose.

So it is pretty much worthless if an owner for instance had ambitions on running a club into the ground and selling the land for a supermarket say.

It would also hold that an owner going bust then the Freehold would not be included in any assets for the liquidators.

Two things the club had faced in quick succession and were the biggest risk to the club

So whilst the Council retain the Freehold, to say Fosun don't own the stadia is somewhat disingenuous. They own a leasehold long beyond anyone's imagined lifetime (and indeed many generations)

I may be on the Council's back over many things, but this was a great act to the people of Wolverhampton.

 

[Darvo]

It’s not really. Putting aside the fact that our prices have gone up considerably since 21/22 when those figures were put together, I’m guessing that all it shows is we are way behind many clubs in regards to hospitality and facilities.

They miss out on £5 off me every home game simply because it’s impossible to get served in the south bank and the beer is **** anyway, so my lot have all stopped bothering with a half time beer.

Another issue is the fan base. Mainly midlands folk who aren’t interested in going for a meal at the ground or paying through the nose for a padded seat. Most turn up at 2.50-3.00 and **** off after the game. Much like Leicester and Villa in the table.

We aren’t a tourist club, and as much as that effects our finances we never will be.

Banging yet another 50 quid on season tickets this summer means **** all in terms of closing the gap to the big clubs in that table.

We stopped half time pints some time back too. The beer was crap and over priced. I’d rather drink good ale in a cosy pub pre and post match.

 

[Berlin Wolf]

It does, but only to the degree the club need the council’s permission for changes to the stadium, which of course they’d also need even if they owned the freehold. The council have more say as the owner of the land than just as the planning authority, but in practice it makes little difference. For financing and such like, the length of the club’s lease makes it little different than if the club owned the land.

There are other clubs with similar relationships over their stadiums and it’s not stopping them from making or planning substantial investments.

Trafford Council want to create a world class setting for Manchester United's Old Trafford.

Masterplan unveiled for area around Manchester United’s Old Trafford - Place North West

Trafford Council has published its draft 15-year framework for 215 acres encompassing the football stadium, Imperial War Museum North, and Victoria Warehouse – a vision that includes up to 5,000 homes and a new primary school.

www.placenorthwest.co.uk

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Trafford Council want to create a world class setting for Manchester United's Old Trafford.

Masterplan unveiled for area around Manchester United’s Old Trafford - Place North West

Trafford Council has published its draft 15-year framework for 215 acres encompassing the football stadium, Imperial War Museum North, and Victoria Warehouse – a vision that includes up to 5,000 homes and a new primary school.

www.placenorthwest.co.uk

If realised, the environment around OT will be a far cry from the warzone it felt like in the past.

 

[WickedWolfie]

If realised, the environment around OT will be a far cry from the warzone it felt like in the past.

A tactical nuke would massively improve that area....

 

[North West Wanderer]

So the council own the land which still makes things difficult

it’s a standard leasehold agreement prevalent everywhere???

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

it’s a standard leasehold agreement prevalent everywhere???

I’m no expert but Fosun clearly aren’t interested in the ground at the moment

 

[North West Wanderer]

I’m no expert but Fosun clearly aren’t interested in the ground at the moment

which is absolutely nothing to do with freehold.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I’m no expert but Fosun clearly aren’t interested in the ground at the moment

Interested investing their own money in the ground, no I agree. But they are actively seeking an investor who is.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Interested investing their own money in the ground, no I agree. But they are actively seeking an investor who is.

That’s a positive sign.

which is absolutely nothing to do with freehold.

May of made them think twice. The council haven’t exactly been very helpful from what was said some time ago. Then you have the Spiers conspiracy stories of Victorian houses and sinking Steve Bull stand.

 

[North West Wanderer]

That’s a positive sign.

May of made them think twice. The council haven’t exactly been very helpful from what was said some time ago. Then you have the Spiers conspiracy stories of Victorian houses and sinking Steve Bull stand.

why would the freehold make them think twice??

The council are idiots, i agree there.

Victorian houses?

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

why would the freehold make them think twice??

The council are idiots, i agree there.

Victorian houses?

You didn’t hear about Spiers stories of the sinking Steve Bull stand laughable it wouldn’t get a safety certificate if true

 

[North West Wanderer]

You didn’t hear about Spiers stories of the sinking Steve Bull stand laughable it wouldn’t get a safety certificate if true

i heard about that, not the victorian houses

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

i heard about that, not the victorian houses

Part of the foundation’s apparently which is why he said it was sinking. We’ve only played at Molineux for the past how many years

 

[North West Wanderer]

Part of the foundation’s apparently which is why he said it was sinking. We’ve only played at Molineux for the past how many years

ouch.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

ouch.

Don’t believe word tim spiers says amateur journalist. Spin doctor like keen & judah

 

[Urko]

'Wheels' land in Bordesley Green sold to Birmingham City FC in landmark deal

Deal agreed between Blues and the city council amid speculation about St Andrews' plans

www.birminghammail.co.uk

 

[Sussex Wolf]

'Wheels' land in Bordesley Green sold to Birmingham City FC in landmark deal

Deal agreed between Blues and the city council amid speculation about St Andrews' plans

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Think the idea of them moving their ground there was discussed on here some time back when the land first went up for sale. The site makes a lot of sense if they think they need to build a brand new stadium, but having spent 20m fixing the old one, it seems wasteful. I guess it would be analogous to Wolves buying the Carvers site in planning a new stadium there instead of rebuilding Molineux.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Think the idea of them moving their ground there was discussed on here some time back when the land first went up for sale. The site makes a lot of sense if they think they need to build a brand new stadium, but having spent 20m fixing the old one, it seems wasteful. I guess it would be analogous to Wolves buying the Carvers site in planning a new stadium there instead of rebuilding Molineux.

Yes, but can't see them being in a new ground this decade, so probably no choice. It's a huge step though, wonder if they are really in a position to actually commit to a new ground, or if it's just to keep that option open?

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

I’m no expert but Fosun clearly aren’t interested in the ground at the moment

While its true that Fosun certainly dont want to totally bankroll a very expensive rebuild project,i do think they are trying to get other investors to part fund the project together with themselves
They would be stupid to not retain controlling interest in any development that does take place,especially if that involves retail premises and or hotel ownership

 

[Bill McCai]

Fosun share price is down at 3.95 HKD today, I dont see them funding anything like this.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Yes, but can't see them being in a new ground this decade, so probably no choice. It's a huge step though, wonder if they are really in a position to actually commit to a new ground, or if it's just to keep that option open?

They must have made some commitment because the article says the council is putting up 19m through a bond, to clear and remediate the site ahead of the development. Realistically that gives them a few years before having to spend big on a new stadium themselves. But I just can’t see that happening without them getting promoted first. We’re probably talking about several hundred million to build a new stadium, and to make the return make any sense, they will need to fill it most weeks for a decade or more. That’s not happening with the state of their team right now.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

'Wheels' land in Bordesley Green sold to Birmingham City FC in landmark deal

Deal agreed between Blues and the city council amid speculation about St Andrews' plans

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Back in 2006 I led a proposal for Birmingham to host the Commonwealth Games, transform their community sports facilities and create a stadium on the Wheels site with Birmingham City being the main tenants. The stadium was to be multifunctional with seats covering the track and a proposed inner roof that would extend and block out higher tiers when not in use. It would host athletic's and other sports reflecting the City's ethnic diversity e.g. a world Asian Games championship and be the hub in a hub and spoke model that would also see an Olympic Swimming pool in the University, and enters of excellence for national sports e.g. Gymnastics at Perry Bar.

The Council were all in and I met with Karen Brady a number of times and they were on board too. She was arguing that they'd fill a 50k plus stadium, when I confessed to being a Wolves fan and scoffed at the claim, in a nice way of course. That was the trigger for the thought process behind the extendable inner roof (to avoid the embarrassing "empty seats" chants. Think a modern day equivalent of the Colosseum's sun screen sails!

The 2008 Credit Crunch happened and it was shelved as BCC's leisure funding was a non-statutory spend and cash was diverted to other services.

Since then Brady got her deal, only with an Olympic Stadium and West Ham, and Birmingham got its Games along with Bankruptcy. Seems that someone kept hold of that proposal and dusted it off.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Back in 2006 I led a proposal for Birmingham to host the Commonwealth Games, transform their community sports facilities and create a stadium on the Wheels site with Birmingham City being the main tenants. The stadium was to be multifunctional with seats covering the track and a proposed inner roof that would extend and block out higher tiers when not in use. It would host athletic's and other sports reflecting the City's ethnic diversity e.g. a world Asian Games championship and be the hub in a hub and spoke model that would also see an Olympic Swimming pool in the University, and enters of excellence for national sports e.g. Gymnastics at Perry Bar.

The Council were all in and I met with Karen Brady a number of times and they were on board too. She was arguing that they'd fill a 50k plus stadium, when I confessed to being a Wolves fan and scoffed at the claim, in a nice way of course. That was the trigger for the thought process behind the extendable inner roof (to avoid the embarrassing "empty seats" chants. Think a modern day equivalent of the Colosseum's sun screen sails!

The 2008 Credit Crunch happened and it was shelved as BCC's leisure funding was a non-statutory spend and cash was diverted to other services.

Since then Brady got her deal, only with an Olympic Stadium and West Ham, and Birmingham got its Games along with Bankruptcy. Seems that someone kept hold of that proposal and dusted it off.

2006 really was a different world wasn't it! BCC trying to develop the city, rather than selling anything that's not nailed down to sort their finances out. Can see how this would be a wonderful facility for a run down area of Birmingham. Can't see how it would remotely ever make economic sense. I guess its closest equivalent might be the Etihad complex, just need to find an oil rich nation to fund it.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

2006 really was a different world wasn't it! BCC trying to develop the city, rather than selling anything that's not nailed down to sort their finances out. Can see how this would be a wonderful facility for a run down area of Birmingham. Can't see how it would remotely ever make economic sense. I guess its closest equivalent might be the Etihad complex, just need to find an oil rich nation to fund it.

They weren't adverse to selling off assets for capital receipts back then, I remember sitting in the office of the CFO at the time pondering selling off the Council House to a hotel chain!

The property portfolio was a mess and their sports facilities really in need of a transformation. I remember going around a leisure pool complex (name escapes me) and it had a lot of chutes and slides that looked like they'd shrunk in the wash. Apparently during the build money was drying up, they kept to the plans but just reduced the dimensions, was really weird.

The main takeaway from that project was that getting the proposal off the ground is one thing but you are a hostage to fortune and this development will take so long that availability of funding for each stage will be so volatile as will costs, I can't see it happening. External factors can devastate plans at any moment, look at Molineux, 1979, 2014 and 2017/18.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Back in 2006 I led a proposal for Birmingham to host the Commonwealth Games, transform their community sports facilities and create a stadium on the Wheels site with Birmingham City being the main tenants. The stadium was to be multifunctional with seats covering the track and a proposed inner roof that would extend and block out higher tiers when not in use. It would host athletic's and other sports reflecting the City's ethnic diversity e.g. a world Asian Games championship and be the hub in a hub and spoke model that would also see an Olympic Swimming pool in the University, and enters of excellence for national sports e.g. Gymnastics at Perry Bar.

The Council were all in and I met with Karen Brady a number of times and they were on board too. She was arguing that they'd fill a 50k plus stadium, when I confessed to being a Wolves fan and scoffed at the claim, in a nice way of course. That was the trigger for the thought process behind the extendable inner roof (to avoid the embarrassing "empty seats" chants. Think a modern day equivalent of the Colosseum's sun screen sails!

The 2008 Credit Crunch happened and it was shelved as BCC's leisure funding was a non-statutory spend and cash was diverted to other services.

Since then Brady got her deal, only with an Olympic Stadium and West Ham, and Birmingham got its Games along with Bankruptcy. Seems that someone kept hold of that proposal and dusted it off.

They could have done with that pull down cover in recent years. Poor first half, pull the cover down, and the supporters wouldn’t have had to watch the second half. Maybe could have called it Rooney Time!

Looks like the local journalists haven’t forgotten…

Blues new stadium hands Knighthead fresh challenge as old plans offer hints

Birmingham City news as the club secure huge plot of land that could home a new stadium but it's not the first attempt to relocate

www.birminghammail.co.uk

 

[Sussex Wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776597495553908997

Official Black Country Development Thread 5

www.skyscrapercity.com

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

View attachment 41684

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776597495553908997

Official Black Country Development Thread 5

www.skyscrapercity.com

The mayor is at the game. Must be an election coming up.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

The mayor is at the game. Must be an election coming up.

Although not at the game, or the city, in the middle of Brum isn't it?

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Although not at the game, or the city, in the middle of Brum isn't it?

My mistake. I stand corrected. I doubt Andy Street cares much for football and least of all our club. I also doubt there is much in the story other than the opportunity for a photoshoot and a few votes from fans hoping he can influence any form of ground development.

 

[surreywolf]

View attachment 41684

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Official Black Country Development Thread 5

www.skyscrapercity.com

That’s great to see. Obviously something being discussed. Good stuff Fosun / Wolves

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

Although not at the game, or the city, in the middle of Brum isn't it?

They’re standing outside the Old Joint Stock. He couldn’t be ***** to travel to the Black Country, certainly wouldn’t risk The Metro

 

[inaglasshouse]

View attachment 41684

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776597495553908997

Official Black Country Development Thread 5

www.skyscrapercity.com

Nice move Jeff, hope we can make some progress

 

[Eastern Wolf]

Nice move Jeff, hope we can make some progress

Been very quiet lately but here’s proof that Jeff is alive

 

[Matt]

Obviously may come to nothing, but that is quite encouraging to see.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

Been very quiet lately but here’s proof that Jeff is alive

Jeff has his sights on Birmingham Council. Fosun to buy Birmingham in the next 18months and Jeff to be made Supreme Mayor and Chief Executive.

Birmingham to be run from its new HQ at Compton Park.

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

View attachment 41684

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776597495553908997

Official Black Country Development Thread 5

www.skyscrapercity.com

Knowing I work at the WMCA, I very much welcome this picture of my ultimate boss seeing Jeff and John and I hope this is the catalyst for Molineux.

If it can mean a regional partnership to help get the redevelopment done, between the club, Fosun, Wolves Council, University of Wolverhampton and the WMCA, then that would be significant.

 

[Matt]

Hopefully it sees the “Molineux Quarter” come to fruition. Those were great visions for that part of the city.

 

[JadeWolf]

Hopefully it sees the “Molineux Quarter” come to fruition. Those were great visions for that part of the city.

Fantastic, but if it’s like everything else Andy Street does it will be expensive and late.