Squad

[Joshwolf218]

Having now read through all this what I've learned is to take absolutely NO notice of rumour threads on here, accept (reluctantly) that what we've now got may well be it, if possible sell Mir and Cutrone to raise funds (we still do need a CH and CMF) and to question what the hell were we doing splashing £35 mil on Silva if at that time we had financial restrictions placed on us?

WWFC swung from £20m profit before tax to £40m loss, as the pandemic led to revenue dropping £40m (23%) from £173m to £133m and profit on player sales fell £2m to £10m, while expenses rose £18m (11%), mainly due to investment in the squad. Loss after tax £39m.

Significantly impacted by COVID, the main driver of #WWFC revenue decrease was broadcasting income, which dropped £37m (28%) from £133m to £96m, while commercial fell £4m (13%) from £28m to £24m. However, match day rose £1m (10%) from £11m to £12m after return to Europe.

Following further investment in the squad, #WWFC wages rose £3m (3%) from £92m to £95m and player amortisation increased by £19m (60%) from £33m to £52m. (though no repeat of prior year impairment £5m). Other expenses cut £2m (8%) to £28m, but interest payable was up £3m to £5m.

 

[VancouverWolf]

"Mostly" the squad that got us 7th. "Exactly" the squad that got us 13th.

Other teams have learnt how to cope with us. Initially, we surprised the big 6, not any more. And on signings, I know he's not without flaws, but Jota is light years ahead of any of our signings since finishing 7th. And in a key position we have not replaced. Moutinho is also on a visible decline from his majestic first season. Hard to see any improvement in Coady, Boly, Neves, Donk since that first season. I'd say all that lot are looking a litle past the peaks they hit then. And I believe Rui is a fair notch better than Sa.

Not saying it's a disaster, but this squad looks more like the one that will finished 13th rather than 7th.

Let's see how it goes after the first league matches, but for me, at this moment, I think around 12th is the best we can hope for with this squad, regardless of manager. Discounting any new signings, of course. In which case, if they are significant, it's not "this squad" any more.

To be fair you bring up some good points.
But you know what, I’ve accepted our circumstances. I’m at peace with where we are and what we have for now. I never expected that we’d be a powerhouse in the first 3 years back up. We knew it would take time to build, bit by bit. Well, right now is what being in the ‘bit-by-bit’ stage looks like. Trincao is a ‘bit’.

I am delighted that we have responsible and professional mgt.

The reason I’m cool with where we are is because I never thought I’d see Wolves back in the PL.
But to look at us now and the players we have is great for me.

Ok, not everyone sees it like me.I get that but all the complaining and moaning and predications of doom doesn’t change anything anyway. No point in going on and on and on and on about a CB or a CM. Jeff does get his transfer advice from the Mix anyway.

Sometimes the negativity on here reminds me of the movie The Road……except that was a bit more cheerful.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Something is happening this week I would imagine don’t worry

 

[SuperGran]

Something is happening this week I would imagine don’t worry

Away kit to be launched with new signings hopefully

 

[VancouverWolf]

Something is happening this week I would imagine don’t worry

Worry, what us? No way. Never on a month of Sundays.
We have ice in our veins.

 

[Deleted member 9202LYK]

We failed uefa ffp which is stricter than pl ffp, which means we have to break even or spend less than 30m for 3 seasons as a punishment
We’re now in season 3 of 3 so will be free of spending sanctions next season

why did we spend £35 million on Silva then?

 

[Jefoe]

I'd take an experienced CB for a low fee for 12-24 months to bolster the squad if we can't spend a decent wedge till next summer

 

[hollo]

Having now read through all this what I've learned is to take absolutely NO notice of rumour threads on here, accept (reluctantly) that what we've now got may well be it, if possible sell Mir and Cutrone to raise funds (we still do need a CH and CMF) and to question what the hell were we doing splashing £35 mil on Silva if at that time we had financial restrictions placed on us?

And semedo for 27 million rising to 35 million. Crazy.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Worry, what us? No way. Never on a month of Sundays.
We have ice in our veins.

What was that a new virus in our veins oh no

 

[Wolf316]

why did we spend £35 million on Silva then?

Because of what Jeff thought he would be worth in a couple of seasons time.

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

We just need a CB and CM. They are absolutely essential in the next 14 days.

Anything in addition such as a striker l, second CB or cam is a bonus

we have needed back up for Raul for 3 years now so not sure how you can say a striker would be a bonus after what happened last season.

 

[PolishWolf]

Because of what Jeff thought he would be worth in a couple of seasons time.

Bit of a perfect storm really wasn't it. Here you have a very talented youngster wolves have been tracking for 2 years ish, porto are struggling with financial fair play and need a favour (Let's be honest, neves for 15 ish million and boly for 10 ish million have felt like a steal in the past, maybe not so much now) then we're getting to a point where this kid is just breaking into porto's first team and starting to attract attention, so jeff pulls the trigger, cause he honestly thinks he's going to be worth tonnes more in years to come.

 

[SuperGran]

Bit of a perfect storm really wasn't it. Here you have a very talented youngster wolves have been tracking for 2 years ish, porto are struggling with financial fair play and need a favour (Let's be honest, neves for 15 ish million and boly for 10 ish million have felt like a steal in the past, maybe not so much now) then we're getting to a point where this kid is just breaking into porto's first team and starting to attract attention, so jeff pulls the trigger, cause he honestly thinks he's going to be worth tonnes more in years to come.

Gambled on raul not having a serious injury that would rule him out for the majority of the season. No one would have seen that coming

 

[Contrarian]

To be fair you bring up some good points.
But you know what, I’ve accepted our circumstances. I’m at peace with where we are and what we have for now. I never expected that we’d be a powerhouse in the first 3 years back up. We knew it would take time to build, bit by bit. Well, right now is what being in the ‘bit-by-bit’ stage looks like. Trincao is a ‘bit’.

I am delighted that we have responsible and professional mgt.

The reason I’m cool with where we are is because I never thought I’d see Wolves back in the PL.
But to look at us now and the players we have is great for me.

Ok, not everyone sees it like me.I get that but all the complaining and moaning and predications of doom doesn’t change anything anyway. No point in going on and on and on and on about a CB or a CM. Jeff does get his transfer advice from the Mix anyway.

Sometimes the negativity on here reminds me of the movie The Road……except that was a bit more cheerful.

It's because if you check the league table, we are bottom of the league already.

In hindsight, instead of waffling on, in response to the idea that the same squad should end up in the same position as previous, i could have said three words: Watford. Sheffield United.

In contrast, could add "West Ham" , who went from 16th to 6th, but they did buy in a couple of key players. And that's what I think we need to do - we need a parallel to what Soucek provided for them. Unlike some, I don't think we need a total overhaul. A couple of key players - and possibly replacement for some who leave. (eg I think one of Donk/Mouts/Neves could move on and we'd be fine so long as the other 2 stayed).

 

[MasWolf]

We need a CB and a CM to play alongside Neves (if we keep him). I don't think we need another striker or two attacking mids at this point.

 

[MasWolf]

Away kit to be launched with new signings hopefully

I'd prefer it to be released with Adama and Neves signing new contracts!

 

[Boss Hogg]

Let’s hope we can shift Rafa Mir on then to get some cash to loan a commanding centre half

 

[JOSWolf]

The squad is nowhere near good enough and less than 2 weeks until the season starts. Coupled with numerous injuries, yet again, the squad looking weak. Action and signings are needed.

 

[VancouverWolf]

The squad is nowhere near good enough and less than 2 weeks until the season starts. Coupled with numerous injuries, yet again, the squad looking weak. Action and signings are needed.

It may not be as weak as you think but however, if Jeff and co. agree with you then I feel confident they’ll try to improve the squad……..provided they have the money……and provided they can find someone……and provided they don’t break UEFA rules.

 

[the 15th Wanderer]

We've all been shouting for a CH and attacking MF for months now. I don't understand FFP so is it the case that the only way to get these reinforcements is to sell big, say Neves, Neto or Traore? How are we in this position? Keyser Soze says things will be different in 12 months; can someone explain to me how so? I'd say these 3 players are essential to our season and it all seems a bit depressing tbh as this squad as it stands is not good enough.

I don't fully understand FFP but here's what I believe to be the case. Premier league clubs can spend 35 million a year more than they earn. Providing the owners make up the loss. Calculated over a 3 year period.
When we qualified for Europe we came under uefa rules which means we have to break even.
Basically most of the clubs can make a loss. The ones that are regularly in Europe can't but have much higher incomes than us.

 

[arctic rime]

Something is happening this week I would imagine don’t worry

I agree

 

[JohnB]

Presumably we’ve already spent £20-25m?

Ran -£10m
Mosquera - £4m
Trincao - £5m? Loan fee
Jose - £3m penalty?
Vitinha - penalty?

However, I still don’t really understand what break-even means? Is it profit/loss for year, is it cumulative over 3 years, is it profit/loss in certain football areas (e.g. Stadium investment excluded) or is it FFP break even (so new transfers in are spread over length of contract but transfers out are allowed for immediately).

We also have the point that the wages/other fees are lower than revenue by c£40m.

Unless someone can really get behind this we each have no real idea what cash we have available. I think it is clear it is limited but whether Mir/Cutrone has already been spent on the players above or whether that is reinvestable is unclear.

Still excited for new season. In my mind we may have 1-2 loans in unless we sell either Ruben or Adama.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Presumably we’ve already spent £20-25m?

Ran -£10m
Mosquera - £4m
Trincao - £5m? Loan fee
Jose - £3m penalty?
Vitinha - penalty?

However, I still don’t really understand what break-even means? Is it profit/loss for year, is it cumulative over 3 years, is it profit/loss in certain football areas (e.g. Stadium investment excluded) or is it FFP break even (so new transfers in are spread over length of contract but transfers out are allowed for immediately).

We also have the point that the wages/other fees are lower than revenue by c£40m.

Unless someone can really get behind this we each have no real idea what cash we have available. I think it is clear it is limited but whether Mir/Cutrone has already been spent on the players above or whether that is reinvestable is unclear.

Still excited for new season. In my mind we may have 1-2 loans in unless we sell either Ruben or Adama.

Only half that for RAN thankfully thanks to some funky financing

 

[PolishWolf]

Presumably we’ve already spent £20-25m?

Ran -£20m
Mosquera - £4m
Trincao - £5m? Loan fee
Jose - £3m penalty?
Vitinha - penalty?

However, I still don’t really understand what break-even means? Is it profit/loss for year, is it cumulative over 3 years, is it profit/loss in certain football areas (e.g. Stadium investment excluded) or is it FFP break even (so new transfers in are spread over length of contract but transfers out are allowed for immediately).

We also have the point that the wages/other fees are lower than revenue by c£40m.

Unless someone can really get behind this we each have no real idea what cash we have available. I think it is clear it is limited but whether Mir/Cutrone has already been spent on the players above or whether that is reinvestable is unclear.

Still excited for new season. In my mind we may have 1-2 loans in unless we sell either Ruben or Adama.

I think we got RAN for much less than 20m, I've not seen anything about a penalty for Vitinha, so I imagine that goes as a loan fee on last years accounts.

There are a few key points and I'm not sure if this is a precise explanation:

Break-Even This is a point of 0 either way.
Break-Even Deficit This is the allowed amount that we can deviate below 0 point. It's worded in a level of 'magnitude' I.E The accounts would say -£21M however our 'Break-Even Difecit' would be just £21M with no negative. I think this is because a lot of the time, especially for the bigger clubs, a deficit is expected.
Break-Even Aggregate This is the result over the 3 year moving accounting period.

 

[Deleted member 9202LYK]

Having now read through all this what I've learned is to take absolutely NO notice of rumour threads on here, accept (reluctantly) that what we've now got may well be it, if possible sell Mir and Cutrone to raise funds (we still do need a CH and CMF) and to question what the hell were we doing splashing £35 mil on Silva if at that time we had financial restrictions placed on us?

Strangely, I completely agree with this. £35m on Silva is a bit of a gamble any the best of times, but when is your LAST £35 for two years (set in stone) then it can only really be seen as incompetent.

This is holds true even if we sell him for £70m in a couple of years time. We desperately need that £35m now and not having it could end in disaster.

 

[George AlooGobi]

Because of what Jeff thought he would be worth in a couple of seasons time.

I'd love to know exactly what happened behind the scenes regarding this transfer. If Jeff pulled rank and broke our transfer record on a whim, he ought to be held accountable.

It's hard to believe he'd interfere on the playing side to such a degree. Doesn't fit the image of Fosun as these super shrewd business operators. Stranger things have happened though...

 

[WillenhallWolfie1980]

FFP means nothing, City won their case so makes a mockery of the whole process

European FFP is also different to premier league FFP

Posting accounts means nothing to me , Loans to buy is prob the best way to go but its very slow at the moment on the transfer front when its plain to see we need players

 

[Joshwolf218]

FFP means nothing, City won their case so makes a mockery of the whole process

European FFP is also different to premier league FFP

Posting accounts means nothing to me , Loans to buy is prob the best way to go but its very slow at the moment on the transfer front when its plain to see we need players

We know we need players it’s shouted on here every day in every thread, we won’t know a player until he is signed etc.

The club know what they are doing, they also know the budget, and the need to have a break even deficient to contend with the ffp sanctions we are under - Just because city won their case doesn’t mean we can spend the family fortune,

fosun want the club to be self sufficient

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

WWFC swung from £20m profit before tax to £40m loss, as the pandemic led to revenue dropping £40m (23%) from £173m to £133m and profit on player sales fell £2m to £10m, while expenses rose £18m (11%), mainly due to investment in the squad. Loss after tax £39m.

Significantly impacted by COVID, the main driver of #WWFC revenue decrease was broadcasting income, which dropped £37m (28%) from £133m to £96m, while commercial fell £4m (13%) from £28m to £24m. However, match day rose £1m (10%) from £11m to £12m after return to Europe.

Following further investment in the squad, #WWFC wages rose £3m (3%) from £92m to £95m and player amortisation increased by £19m (60%) from £33m to £52m. (though no repeat of prior year impairment £5m). Other expenses cut £2m (8%) to £28m, but interest payable was up £3m to £5m.

Thanks Josh. I guess it puts our constant demands for new players and increased wages for Traore into some perspective. Its a business and it needs to make money.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

I'd take an experienced CB for a low fee for 12-24 months to bolster the squad if we can't spend a decent wedge till next summer

If we're financially knackered this season then Cahill has just left Palace. He's a solid CH, even at 35, and as good as anyone we've currently got. 1 year contract could see us through?

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

And semedo for 27 million rising to 35 million. Crazy.

Good point. Forgot about that. When reading all of the above the Silva and Semedo deals look a bit iffy/fishy?

 

[Scallywolf]

If we're financially knackered this season then Cahill has just left Palace. He's a solid CH, even at 35, and as good as anyone we've currently got. 1 year contract could see us through?

You beat me to it!

 

[Joshwolf218]

Good point. Forgot about that. When reading all of the above the Silva and Semedo deals look a bit iffy/fishy?

One thing to remember however is both their fees will be over the length of their contract

 

[Gold Flag Flying High]

from what I understand is that Wolves are still under scrutiny from UEFA for breaking FFP rules meaning we have to break even, however we don’t know the additional sanctions for example

And I don’t think there is easy ways to put more money into the club other than I.e outside investment etc, stadium sale etc like villa did

I’m unsure if the club have banked on selling before investing in their premium targets as they would cost a fair chunk of change

loans seem to be the best way forward

That’s what I’m thinking they will do also, if no one goes out then it will be loan to buy options most likely.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

If we're financially knackered this season then Cahill has just left Palace. He's a solid CH, even at 35, and as good as anyone we've currently got. 1 year contract could see us through?

I agree. I think he's still quality

 

[L78]

If that was the case we would get players in on obligation to buy loans. The truth is that fosun want us to be self financing.

Self financing with a 32,000 stadium good luck only option is selling best players like Leicester then eventually build from there as we carnt compete with most teams from gate receipts I think we had 5th smallest stadium capacity from last season so when you look at it like that finishing where we did last term was not to bad

 

[MrwulfAndrew]

Dont we get stupid money from the league tv rights. If this is the case then why do we need to aim for a net spend of 0?

 

[PolishWolf]

Dont we get stupid money from the league tv rights. If this is the case then why do we need to aim for a net spend of 0?

We don't, we need to achieve an account figure of more than -€30m at the end of 2020/2021 and an aggregate account figure over 2019/20, 2020/21 and 2021/2022 of €-30m also.

It is structured in this way so that we are not required to immediately defunct part of our team to break even, thus having a knock on effect of us dropping the league's and having more financial difficulties. But still be within the acceptable accounting levels for UEFA by the end of the 3 year period.

As it stands I believe accounts haven't been too healthy because of covid, but one would suggest that this year they will be significantly bouyed as, we will have matchday revenue return, any deferred TV income will come our way and we will hopefully move further up the table.

Edit; I'll double up on the second part of your question to properly explain, it was reported that the deferral of TV rights income put us at a defecit of -40m last period, where as we in a normal period we are thought to have been able to post profits of 20m.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Dont we get stupid money from the league tv rights. If this is the case then why do we need to aim for a net spend of 0?

Cash flow issue we get the 120m tv money in instalments of 40m across the season. So we should have some capital to spend at least 32m

 

[Chris H]

Dont we get stupid money from the league tv rights. If this is the case then why do we need to aim for a net spend of 0?

No one from the club has said we need a net zero spend, that’s just conjecture based on us having a net spend of zero last year (it was actually about £10m). It has been said previously that they want the club to be self sufficient, but those aren’t the same things.

A fair chunk of that TV money is spent on wages and other costs of running the club too obviously as well as loan repayments etc but yes some of that should be available towards player purchases.

Currently we’re at about £13m net spend this summer.