Southampton being sold

[Oliwolf44]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1478344087464038400

Chinese owners at Southampton selling up for what would be on the face of it a loss of £110million if figures are to be believed.

Seems like a large loss on investment. An isolated incident or more evidence for withdrawal of Chinese interest in english football and UK businesses as a whole?

 

[Deleted member 9202LYK]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1478344087464038400

Chinese owners at Southampton selling up for what would be on the face of it a loss of £110million if figures are to be believed.

Seems like a large loss on investment. An isolated incident or more evidence for withdrawal of Chinese interest in english football and UK businesses as a whole?

Definitely the latter.

In Fosun, I think we have the best Chinese owners, but the writing is on the wall for all Chinese owned clubs.

 

[JOSWolf]

You do wonder with us what will happen with our owners. My hope is they invest again and carry us forward but I've got serious doubts.

 

[Oliwolf44]

The valuation of this sale is the strangest thing. Crystal Palace sold 18% stake for £87million in August last year, Newcastle have just been bought for £300/350 million so how can 80% of Southampton only cost £100million. Do they have a huge amount of debts to take onboard or are the owners just desperate to get out and so therefore willing to lose more than what they have sold the entire club for?

 

[yateleywolf]

The valuation of this sale is the strangest thing. Crystal Palace sold 18% stake for £87million in August last year, Newcastle have just been bought for £300/350 million so how can 80% of Southampton only cost £100million. Do they have a huge amount of debts to take onboard or are the owners just desperate to get out and so therefore willing to lose more than what they have sold the entire club for?

Probably more the latter seems like he wanted out sometime ago.

 

[Kebab Warrior]

 

[Beijing Wolf]

Fosun are different to the majority of these other Chinese (football) investors in that their business was originally set up around International Investment and so they have a pre existing Foreign Investment license granted by the Chinese government (When they were formed).

The reason we are seeing many of the investors pull out is that the Government is wanting to halt the issue of mass capital flight out of their country (China) and are thus requiring companies to have pre existing licenses rather than applying for them retro actively. Basically a lot of the elite in China we’re trying to move their money out of the country and the Government has put a stop to it.

So for example with ”The Baggies”, the consortium of Government officials that own them (hidden behind that Landscape gardener) are now unable to take their money out of the country. The same thing happened with the Dr at Aston Villa and I assume with this chap at Southampton.

Fosun are however still free to move money about, so we shouldn’t have the same issue.

 

[WWFC4EVA]

So our owners are heavily involved in HS2 then or have I misinterpreted that?

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

Deal confirmed and it seems that they have quite a group established.

Sport Republic acquires ownership of club

Southampton Football Club can today confirm that Sport Republic has completed the acquisition of a controlling stake in Southampton Football Club.

www.southamptonfc.com

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Fosun are different to the majority of these other Chinese (football) investors in that their business was originally set up around International Investment and so they have a pre existing Foreign Investment license granted by the Chinese government (When they were formed).

The reason we are seeing many of the investors pull out is that the Government is wanting to halt the issue of mass capital flight out of their country (China) and are thus requiring companies to have pre existing licenses rather than applying for them retro actively. Basically a lot of the elite in China we’re trying to move their money out of the country and the Government has put a stop to it.

So for example with ”The Baggies”, the consortium of Government officials that own them (hidden behind that Landscape gardener) are now unable to take their money out of the country. The same thing happened with the Dr at Aston Villa and I assume with this chap at Southampton.

Fosun are however still free to move money about, so we shouldn’t have the same issue.

Thanks for explaining that. I suppose most countries don't want a massive outflow of funds.

 

[WolfLing]

It wouldn't surprise me if the whole self-sufficiency thing, the Peak 6 investment, the Fosun Sports brand etc. all came about so we can stand alone and effectively not be seen as 'Chinese owned'.

Fosun, Guo, Jeff, et al are fully invested in Wolves and our brand. The only reason they wouldn't be is if they were instructed not to be!

But perhaps if we are owned partly by other non-Chinese investors (Peak 6 being the first), the more we diversify, the less likely we are to be subject to interference?

 

[VancouverWolf]

Fosun are different to the majority of these other Chinese (football) investors in that their business was originally set up around International Investment and so they have a pre existing Foreign Investment license granted by the Chinese government (When they were formed).

The reason we are seeing many of the investors pull out is that the Government is wanting to halt the issue of mass capital flight out of their country (China) and are thus requiring companies to have pre existing licenses rather than applying for them retro actively. Basically a lot of the elite in China we’re trying to move their money out of the country and the Government has put a stop to it.

So for example with ”The Baggies”, the consortium of Government officials that own them (hidden behind that Landscape gardener) are now unable to take their money out of the country. The same thing happened with the Dr at Aston Villa and I assume with this chap at Southampton.

Fosun are however still free to move money about, so we shouldn’t have the same issue.

Exactly.
Although there is a lot of new changes and rules within China covering many different areas of life, the CCP doesn’t expect owners of foreign businesses to neglect them.
Its understood that they should protect and expand their overseas investment.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1478344087464038400

Chinese owners at Southampton selling up for what would be on the face of it a loss of £110million if figures are to be believed.

Seems like a large loss on investment. An isolated incident or more evidence for withdrawal of Chinese interest in english football and UK businesses as a whole?

Reading the Athletic’s backstories, Gao wanted the club to finance itself and didn’t want to invest more capital. The pandemic caused Southampton to make a loss and to cover this, they took out a 78m loan at 9% interest. This accelerated his need to sell up. That loan is not due for repayment until 2025. So likely the headline sale value excludes the outstanding loan which the new owner will assume liability for along with the club.

 

[Rhyl Wolf]

Most insightful thread. Quite liking the idea of The Independent Communist State of Wolverhampton. Seriously though. The average football fan has no real idea what is going on behind the scenes.

 

[we love jez moxey]

So our owners are heavily involved in HS2 then or have I misinterpreted that?

When carrilion went tits up, Fosun offered to build HS2 faster and cheaper.

 

[we love jez moxey]

China offers to build HS2 in five years and for less money

UK government in talks with China Railway Construction Corporation

www.google.com

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

The **** owner has out of the blue decided to come back and visit the club for the first time in years and given them pretty significant money by their standards to sign Dike.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I think Fosun are well respected in China. If they are here for the long term then we are in safe hands obviously if not much happens this window. I really think the summer we will see some good movements

 

[giantwolf]

The valuation of this sale is the strangest thing. Crystal Palace sold 18% stake for £87million in August last year, Newcastle have just been bought for £300/350 million so how can 80% of Southampton only cost £100million. Do they have a huge amount of debts to take onboard or are the owners just desperate to get out and so therefore willing to lose more than what they have sold the entire club for?

They lost £76m in the last set of accounts and I think they largely lose money day to day but have historically been ok as they’ve been able to flog players - they haven’t really had anyone significant to sell for a few seasons.

They also owe a £79m loan which is costing them £7.2m per year in interest… at least our ‘debt’ to Fosun is interest free… no idea about the ones we have from MacQuarie

 

[wwbug]

Fosun are different to the majority of these other Chinese (football) investors in that their business was originally set up around International Investment and so they have a pre existing Foreign Investment license granted by the Chinese government (When they were formed).

The reason we are seeing many of the investors pull out is that the Government is wanting to halt the issue of mass capital flight out of their country (China) and are thus requiring companies to have pre existing licenses rather than applying for them retro actively. Basically a lot of the elite in China we’re trying to move their money out of the country and the Government has put a stop to it.

So for example with ”The Baggies”, the consortium of Government officials that own them (hidden behind that Landscape gardener) are now unable to take their money out of the country. The same thing happened with the Dr at Aston Villa and I assume with this chap at Southampton.

Fosun are however still free to move money about, so we shouldn’t have the same issue.

That makes sense.
And Wolves can be a successful and profitable business.
I cant see the Chinese government issuing a dictact that Chinese companies cant operate profitable overseas businesses .
That would seem counterproductive, with profits flowing to China , through wages and dividends

 

[Deleted member 9202LYK]

Exactly.
Although there is a lot of new changes and rules within China covering many different areas of life, the CCP doesn’t expect owners of foreign businesses to neglect them.

So why are Fosun neglecting Wolves then?
Football (especially premier league football) doesn’t run on a self-sufficient club basis.

The best we can hope for is superhuman efforts from a variety of Nunos, Brunos and Rubéns.

From time to time they will pull us close to the top 6. One such time is now, and we need investment now to make the leap.

This is an investment, meaning that the aim is to get a return on this. This investment needs to happen now, and it’s glaringly obvious we need another top striker THIS SEASON.

If we they don’t invest in this window, then it’s crystal clear that for fosun the project is over, and we’ll need to hope we are sold before we implode.

 

[SA Wolf]

Life was much simpler when we were owned by the Golden Tit.

 

[wwbug]

Life was much simpler when we were owned by the Golden Tit.

Not sure SJH would agree with that. Or his family .

 

[SA Wolf]

Not sure SJH would agree with that. Or his family .

I meant for me, not SJH.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

They lost £76m in the last set of accounts and I think they largely lose money day to day but have historically been ok as they’ve been able to flog players - they haven’t really had anyone significant to sell for a few seasons.

They also owe a £79m loan which is costing them £7.2m per year in interest… at least our ‘debt’ to Fosun is interest free… no idea about the ones we have from MacQuarie

was around 4 to 5% initially.not sure what it is now

 

[VancouverWolf]

So why are Fosun neglecting Wolves then?
Football (especially premier league football) doesn’t run on a self-sufficient club basis.

The best we can hope for is superhuman efforts from a variety of Nunos, Brunos and Rubéns.

From time to time they will pull us close to the top 6. One such time is now, and we need investment now to make the leap.

This is an investment, meaning that the aim is to get a return on this. This investment needs to happen now, and it’s glaringly obvious we need another top striker THIS SEASON.

If we they don’t invest in this window, then it’s crystal clear that for fosun the project is over, and we’ll need to hope we are sold before we implode.

Fair enough but I don’t see Fosun neglecting Wolves….quite the opposite, in fact.

As for a return on their investment…..well, I can’t speak to that as I have no idea why Fosun bought Wolves, what their strategy was, ( or is now thx to covid), or how they have to compensate for a huge loss of profits last year. There is soooooo much I am not privy to at Fosun so I’ll pass on guessing about returns on investments.

I don’t think there was a ‘project’ per se….think it was just a loose term about promotion and consolidating our PL position. I don’t think it was any more than that…..at least as far as I know.

 

[lostwolf]

I don't think it matters now. Fosun have achieved what was needed: to invest early on and get us to where we should be.

They're currently not investing, something I think is understandable, and so it matters not whether it's them or someone else owning the club going forwards. They seem reluctant to invest in capital projects so what's the difference if it's them or someone else spending the tele cash? Unless we end up with a Venkys or a latter-day Bhattis we'll be fine.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

They lost £76m in the last set of accounts and I think they largely lose money day to day but have historically been ok as they’ve been able to flog players - they haven’t really had anyone significant to sell for a few seasons.

They also owe a £79m loan which is costing them £7.2m per year in interest… at least our ‘debt’ to Fosun is interest free… no idea about the ones we have from MacQuarie

We paid about £4.5M in interest according to the last accounts

 

[inaglasshouse]

I reckon the win has raised our profile again. Would be lovely to think we will now make a headline investment or two in the transfer window to further demonstrate our intentions to compete with the top 6.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

So why are Fosun neglecting Wolves then?
Football (especially premier league football) doesn’t run on a self-sufficient club basis.

The best we can hope for is superhuman efforts from a variety of Nunos, Brunos and Rubéns.

From time to time they will pull us close to the top 6. One such time is now, and we need investment now to make the leap.

This is an investment, meaning that the aim is to get a return on this. This investment needs to happen now, and it’s glaringly obvious we need another top striker THIS SEASON.

If we they don’t invest in this window, then it’s crystal clear that for fosun the project is over, and we’ll need to hope we are sold before we implode.

Given the amount of tv rights money these days, and FFP restrictions, PL football clubs can now operate on a self sustaining basis if they are careful. Some can even afford to pay for their ground improvements without an owner cash injection too, as long as they can borrow the money on terms they can afford to pay. Of course getting into the PL from the Champ, and establishing a competitive squad is another matter, and that’s where Fosun injected around 100m to get us to up and competing amongst the top half.

I said careful, and by that I mean being realistic in the goals of the club, and making smart decisions around coaches and playing staff. I think Fosun and Jeff have, for the most part, done exactly that. Would I like us to have brought in a few more players last summer, and to be investing in Molineux? Yes, absolutely. But I’m not convinced the project is over, or that our long term strategy has changed significantly on the pitch. I don’t think Fosun are neglecting Wolves.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

The word investment will never not be funny to me, buying football players is one of the worst investments possible for Fosun now we are an established club. The amount of money we'd need to have a realistic shot at top 6 is in the £100Ms in transfers and probably 50% extra onto the wage bill - just for Europa League revenue. As an investment it is terrible

 

[arctic rime]

It's becoming very hard for the 3 promoted sides to compete, it will only get more difficult as time goes by.

 

[Deleted member 9202LYK]

The word investment will never not be funny to me, buying football players is one of the worst investments possible for Fosun now we are an established club. The amount of money we'd need to have a realistic shot at top 6 is in the £100Ms in transfers and probably 50% extra onto the wage bill - just for Europa League revenue. As an investment it is terrible

People tell me Fosun are an investment company, and know what they are doing.

I think there is a possibility to make money if you are in Jorge’s good books. Which we were, but he’s now moved on and left us stranded.

 

[Sutton Wolf]

I’m sure I read somewhere that Chelsea’s debt to Abramovich is £1.5 billion.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

The word investment will never not be funny to me, buying football players is one of the worst investments possible for Fosun now we are an established club. The amount of money we'd need to have a realistic shot at top 6 is in the £100Ms in transfers and probably 50% extra onto the wage bill - just for Europa League revenue. As an investment it is terrible

I’d probably go further and say wages roughly double the cost of signing quality players in the PL now. Most of the top clubs will be pay 150k/wk or more for big signings, which is around 30m over a 4 year contract.

Manchester City Player Salaries 2021-2022 Revealed - WTFoot

Manchester City Salaries in the 2021-2022 season. We have found out all the salaries within club so we know who earns the most. Join us and find out.

www.wtfoot.com

 

[WestChiltingtonwolf]

If we they don’t invest in this window, then it’s crystal clear that for fosun the project is over, and we’ll need to hope we are sold before we implode.

If a business doesn’t invest heavily in one of its assets (which is what is needed to take the next step), which does not guarantee a return, when there are lots of examples of massive failures in that industry, during a global pandemic it’s crystal clear the business is going to sell that asset?

I couldn’t disagree more. Being “safe” doesn’t mean plans to sell up. You may say the rich get richer during times like this - not if they invest in an unsafe venture.

 

[optimuswolf]

Probably more the latter seems like he wanted out sometime ago.

Its very very strange. Need to look into it as it sounds like an absolute steal.

 

[yateleywolf]

Its very very strange. Need to look into it as it sounds like an absolute steal.

From what I heard they are picking up the debts and outstanding loan so more in the region of £250-75 million.Plus he was in financial difficulties.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Its very very strange. Need to look into it as it sounds like an absolute steal.

Not really. A couple of articles in the Athletic explained the financial situation the club and prior owner were in. The quoted price looks fair if it is cash and excludes the debt liabilities held by the club. The prior owner didn’t want to invest more cash when covid racked up debts for Southampton, so they took out a large commercial loan which needs to be repaid in the coming years. If he didn’t sell, and would inject more cash, then Southampton would have struggled.

 

[AW]

I’m sure I read somewhere that Chelsea’s debt to Abramovich is £1.5 billion.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1478410843146625025