Our Academy

[Scallywolf]

Have we got any real talent in our Academy who could make the breakthrough and become regular members of the first team?

No disrespect at all to Fraser, Chirewa or Chiwome but they are not ready to be thrown in as starters or bench warmers. If it wasn’t for our injuries they would probably be playing occasional games for the Academy.

Have we got any young player who could be the next Kobbie Mainoo, Jacob Ramsey, Conor Bradley, Lewis Miley, Rico Lewis, Phil Foden to name a few who have really impressed me after they came through their clubs Academy’s. Maybe the 3 I have mentioned above could make it, but from what I have seen, they have a long way to go. All 3 probably need to go on loan next season.

Hugo Bueno has done ok for us after stepping up, but is not a regular starter like those mentioned. I can’t think of anyone else since Fosun took over or for a few years before them. I do remember Joleon Lescott and Lee Naylor, but how many years ago were they playing for us?

Any names to look out for or is the Academy a non productive expense.

 

[Monketron]

Have we got any real talent in our Academy who could make the breakthrough and become regular members of the first team?

No disrespect at all to Fraser, Chirewa or Chiwome but they are not ready to be thrown in as starters or bench warmers. If it wasn’t for our injuries they would probably be playing occasional games for the Academy.

Have we got any young player who could be the next Kobbie Mainoo, Jacob Ramsey, Conor Bradley, Lewis Miley, Rico Lewis, Phil Foden to name a few who have really impressed me after they came through their clubs Academy’s. Maybe the 3 I have mentioned above could make it, but from what I have seen, they have a long way to go. All 3 probably need to go on loan next season.

Hugo Bueno has done ok for us after stepping up, but is not a regular starter like those mentioned. I can’t think of anyone else since Fosun took over or for a few years before them. I do remember Joleon Lescott and Lee Naylor, but how many years ago were they playing for us?

Any names to look out for or is the Academy a non productive expense.

Anyone who looked like they might hit those heights would get poached before they got to 17 and signed a contract. The only hope would be a player who looked ok but not amazing at 15/16 but then suddenly improved once they'd signed a professional contract (which does happen to be fair).

When you consider the size of the West Midlands it's weird we don't produce more talent. Compared to the local talent that Liverpool and Manchester produce. Having said that, Maddison, Grealish and Bellingham is a bit of a golden age in recent times when you think about it.

 

[Scallywolf]

Anyone who looked like they might hit those heights would get poached before they got to 17 and signed a contract. The only hope would be a player who looked ok but not amazing at 15/16 but then suddenly improved once they'd signed a professional contract (which does happen to be fair).

When you consider the size of the West Midlands it's weird we don't produce more talent. Compared to the local talent that Liverpool and Manchester produce. Having Maddison, Grealish and Bellingham is a bit of a golden age in recent times when you think about it.

Makes me wonder as to why bother with an Academy, unfortunately.

 

[Monketron]

Makes me wonder as to why bother with an Academy, unfortunately.

I guess it's worth it as long as each year you can tick along and more or less break even by selling a few players to lower league clubs, then you wait for that once in a 10-year player like a Robbie Keane or Morgan Gibbs-White who is Premier League class and makes the first team and eventually a lot of money for the club.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Makes me wonder as to why bother with an Academy, unfortunately.

Money making scheme for FFP apparently

 

[lets all have a disco]

They don't necessarily have to make it into premier league stars but it very important that it generates money and we make transfers fees for a few.. obviously you need bids for players but some get too hung up on selling players...I remember the panic stations by a few for selling Giles and Sanderson....those were good sales but ideally we're too slow....any fees we can get for any academy players this summer should be considered and used for pure profit....

For every Hugo Bueno squad player we need 5/6 to leave for fees 1-5m ideally....

 

[goldfish]

Until three or four years ago, Bosun were clear that the point of our academy was to make a profit, with only very occasional players making first team squads. To that end it's been a success. But if we're going to rely on academy players more going forward, I hope that change was implemented a while back, because it'll take a few years to take route.

That said, Bueno has done OK.

 

[Ned]

I’ve had the theory that since Fosun bought us the academy have been massively left behind. Nothing against them but suddenly the players in the system had the goals and expectations changed; from needing to get to mid table championship level and replace Lee Evans and Dave Edwards to having to reach challenging for Europe and replace Joao Moutinho and Ruben Neves almost overnight.

We’ve made additions and are actively looking to improve the levels and I’m sure we will get there when the U11’s get to U17 level. It’s just that the teenagers at the club got left behind.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

The Academy more than wipes its own mouth and will continue to do so. In fact we’ve got a very good set up outside of the big boys like Liverpool and city who plough far more money into it. It’s a two fold operation really with one serving the other, the hope being you unearth the old real gem to be a first team player (which is difficult for everyone) the other is to generate some funds which it does.

This does feel like the weekly thread that comes about after a loss to find the new scapegoat to be honest.

 

[SuperGran]

I’ve had the theory that since Fosun bought us the academy have been massively left behind. Nothing against them but suddenly the players in the system had the goals and expectations changed; from needing to get to mid table championship level and replace Lee Evans and Dave Edwards to having to reach challenging for Europe and replace Joao Moutinho and Ruben Neves almost overnight.

We’ve made additions and are actively looking to improve the levels and I’m sure we will get there when the U11’s get to U17 level. It’s just that the teenagers at the club got left behind.

I think this is the point that people forget when they talk about pervious players breaking into the squad it’s so much harder to break into premier league team than a midtable championship team and as you say to replace players that are internationals plus the standard of football is so much higher than it was in the days of lescott Murray etc

 

[Ned]

I think this is the point that people forget when they talk about pervious players breaking into the squad it’s so much harder to break into premier league team than a midtable championship team and as you say to replace players that are internationals plus the standard of football is so much higher than it was in the days of lescott Murray etc

It really has become an almost impossible task for the kids in our U23’s at the moment; the levels are so different that they need a few seasons of loans to get ready for men’s football, let alone PL football. There will always be the one or two players every 5 years to break into a team but it’s now incredibly rare.

 

[Mugwump]

Dont get me started on our academy. I was critical of it over a decade ago and got told it would take time. We have literally only produce MGW thats been a regular Premier league player who has proved himself.

 

[lets all have a disco]

I think this is the point that people forget when they talk about pervious players breaking into the squad it’s so much harder to break into premier league team than a midtable championship team and as you say to replace players that are internationals plus the standard of football is so much higher than it was in the days of lescott Murray etc

People also forget about developing players in other ways...they haven't got to come from the academy....I'm terms of development Toti and Kilman are up there with anything any other clubs have achieved for an initial outlay of about 2m....

 

[Golden Wanderer]

I think if we were still in the Championship we would be saying how well our academy is as we probably would have Giles, Sanderson, Hodge and Cundle as regular starters. There are others too, that for a Championship club would be good squad players.

 

[Premier Quality]

The standard in the academy has improved massively, and there is real talent in the u16s and below - the problem is that the future potential superstars are taken by Liverpool/utd/Newcastle for peanuts before they sign a contract

 

[Kebab Warrior]

The academy should generate money by developing players we can sell on for a profit. Anyone thinking it will be churning out Foden’s or Bellingham’s on a weekly basis is way off the mark. You are talking one off generational talents (real one’s not Fabio ones).
Even when players are that good they don’t make it straight away, look at Salah and KDB at Chelsea.

 

[lets all have a disco]

In terms of generating money since COVID the lack of funds in the championship and below has dropped off a cliff....it's a lot more difficult to make money off home-grown players who's market is solely the league system in this country....

You will more likely generate funds from say a Justin Hubner who seems to be prepared to play football anywhere in the world or buying a Yerson mosquea who will do the same than a Cundle or say Hodge...

Said before I had a mate who did 4 years YTS at wolves under Graham Turner , made the bench for the first team a few times but didn't quite make it...ended up Cheltenham, none league avenue....he turned down multiple offers from Hong Kong ,USA , Scandinavian clubs because didn't want to leave the area and his mates...it's something he regrets nw he is older....

 

[Corporate Wolf]

The line between success and failure of an academy prospect is shockingly scary. One of the last studies suggest that 97% of Tier/Cat 1 Premier League academy scholars don't even play a minute of professional senior football for the club they have been part of.

Its also worth reading the EPPP rules that govern the recruitment of young players.

 

[BlahBlah]

The academy should generate money by developing players we can sell on for a profit. Anyone thinking it will be churning out Foden’s or Bellingham’s on a weekly basis is way off the mark. You are talking one off generational talents (real one’s not Fabio ones).
Even when players are that good they don’t make it straight away, look at Salah and KDB at Chelsea.

They were bought from abroad for decent fees and sold for 18 mill and 15 mill each...at the time it was market value and Chelsea made a profit on both, which was their business model at the time.
Chelsea had scores of players signed and out on loan and probably made more profit on a few that have sunk without trace....they were also charging loan fees so they were raking in money.
It's a tricky one.....could they have kept those players, or had the players asked to move on anyway?

I think in our case we'd be wanting to unearth the occasional first team player and watch them develop. It's unlikely we'll produce a Jota without him being stolen by somebody else before they hit peak value, so we need to scour the earth and try and buy one before anybody else sees them. Joao Gomes being one, for about 15 million...then end up with an unbelievable statement like this and a probable 150% profit in a year or so?

João Victor Gomes da Silva (born 12 February 2001) is a Brazilian professional footballer who plays as a central midfielder for Premier League club Wolverhampton Wanderers and the Brazil national team.

 

[wolfslair]

Makes me wonder as to why bother with an Academy, unfortunately.

It is a great way to produce players consistently who we can sell lower down the league tree and make pure profit for FFP at our level.

If a first team players comes out of it then bonus!!!!

 

[Wednesbury Wolf]

We have an Academy ? Who knew ?

 

[Ned]

I think if we were still in the Championship we would be saying how well our academy is as we probably would have Giles, Sanderson, Hodge and Cundle as regular starters. There are others too, that for a Championship club would be good squad players.

Spot on, it shows that the academy was kind of on track until the first team (and club as a whole) suddenly improved at least ten fold.

 

[JOSWolf]

Academy is doing very well this season. U18's in a great position in their league and u21's have done well. We do have some very promising players coming through. I have a feeling we will see a real star come through in the next couple of years. Chiwome is going to be a good player as well, in my opinion.

 

[Scallywolf]

Bloody hell, I forgot about MGW in my opening thread and never gave him a mention!

He was so so with us and was given plenty of chances to be a regular starter, but was so inconsistent.

I suppose the 40 odd million we got for him was good business. He’s doing ok for Forest, but again he is inconsistent. Touted to be selected for the England squad earlier this season, but that’s a bit OTT imo.

Let’s see how gets on against Super Mario and The Pitbull on Saturday. No doubt he will try to wind up a few people, including our fans.

 

[giantwolf]

I do love it when this topic pops up every year

*You've named a few excellent examples of players who have come through academies and are doing well, but they are 6 (yes, I know the list could be a little longer) out of over 500 players that are in Category 1 clubs u21 squad EACH YEAR.
*They are also examples of players from clubs with some of the highest spending in academy football. Inevitably, you will get back proportionally to what you put in - we can't and won't compete with that, however we are growing each year and probably fairing quite well on a cost vs output basis.
*97% of category one academy players NEVER play a minute of Premier League football
*70% of category one academy players NEVER even sign a pro contract for a premier league or football league club

Unfortunately all clubs have to develop 100s of players in order to find 1 that might make the 1st team

And no that doesn't mean its not worth doing as Hugo Bueno has saved us a few bob on a back up left back and it isn't all about 1st team players for us, MGW has arguably paid for the academy for at least the next 5 years, add in Sanderson, Giles sales.....

 

[Oliwolf44]

When the modus operandi is small squad policy and chairman has specifically mentioned there is opportunities for youth players to make a contribution then its not unreasonable to have expected more.
Having said that there are very few teams who even have one youth product in their first team. Man city, Chelsea, Utd, Liverpool being the exceptions. Leicester have produced a lot. seems a correlation between those names and big clubs/state of the art youth facilities.
With big budgets and scouting teams all over the world, to be in a team in the top 10 of the prem means being one of the best 110 players from across the globe (in basic terms), then the chance of them being born down the road are slim.
Bueno is one contributor and born in spain, there has been lots of youth signings but few have made the grade. In summary probably do expect a bit more (as with everything) due to the small squad opportunities but its very tough with all competing teams and just pure chance of them making it by law of averages.

 

[giantwolf]

When the modus operandi is small squad policy and chairman has specifically mentioned there is opportunities for youth players to make a contribution then its not unreasonable to have expected more.
Having said that there are very few teams who even have one youth product in their first team. Man city, Chelsea, Utd, Liverpool being the exceptions. Leicester have produced a lot. seems a correlation between those names and big clubs/state of the art youth facilities.
With big budgets and scouting teams all over the world, to be in a team in the top 10 of the prem means being one of the best 110 players from across the globe (in basic terms), then the chance of them being born down the road are slim.
Bueno is one contributor and born in spain, there has been lots of youth signings but few have made the grade. In summary probably do expect a bit more (as with everything) due to the small squad opportunities but its very tough with all competing teams and just pure chance of them making it by law of averages.

The issue is, unless you want to buy the best youth talent from across the world in order to have a relatively quick impact on the first team then you need to plough in ££££m's (like Chelsea or Man City). Beyond that, it takes 5-10 years to develop and our small squad policy now, doesn't match the investment in our academy from 5-10 years ago.

On the flip side, a big squad with less opportunities will squeeze budgets and make clubs like Wolves a less attractive proposition for youth players when they (their parents) are choosing a club to go to

This season we've had:

*a youth player or academy graduate in the matchday squad for 95% of our first team games
*a youth player or academy graduate get first team minutes in 68% of our first team games
*Have 15 DIFFERENT academy graduates or youth players named in the first team squad
*7 of those have 1st team minutes under their belt
*those 7 have made 36 appearances

Considering where we are in the league, that is a great deal of opportunity and a world away from where we have been in our entire Premier League tenure. This WILL help in future years - either from a development point of view OR possibly more importantly in the eyes of parents and agents of future MGW's, Fraser's, Chiwome's etc

 

[SA Wolf]

The issue is, unless you want to buy the best youth talent from across the world in order to have a relatively quick impact on the first team then you need to plough in ££££m's (like Chelsea or Man City). Beyond that, it takes 5-10 years to develop and our small squad policy now, doesn't match the investment in our academy from 5-10 years ago.

On the flip side, a big squad with less opportunities will squeeze budgets and make clubs like Wolves a less attractive proposition for youth players when they (their parents) are choosing a club to go to

This season we've had:

*a youth player or academy graduate in the matchday squad for 95% of our first team games
*a youth player or academy graduate get first team minutes in 68% of our first team games
*Have 15 DIFFERENT academy graduates or youth players named in the first team squad
*7 of those have 1st team minutes under their belt
*those 7 have made 36 appearances

Considering where we are in the league, that is a great deal of opportunity and a world away from where we have been in our entire Premier League tenure. This WILL help in future years - either from a development point of view OR possibly more importantly in the eyes of parents and agents of future MGW's, Fraser's, Chiwome's etc

I take your point about MGW paying for the academy for the next few years and also about the small 'hit rate' for players making it from academies, however, your points about the number of players from our academy making the first team/squads etc... is flawed imo. Had we got a squad of sufficient depth to allow for injuries, suspensions etc..., we would not have had the number of academy 'kids' on the bench or playing minutes in the team. In most cases, they are there, because we have no one else, not because they've forced their ways into the first team reckoning.

 

[giantwolf]

I take your point about MGW paying for the academy for the next few years and also about the small 'hit rate' for players making it from academies, however, your points about the number of players from our academy making the first team/squads etc... is flawed imo. Had we got a squad of sufficient depth to allow for injuries, suspensions etc..., we would not have had the number of academy 'kids' on the bench or playing minutes in the team. In most cases, they are there, because we have no one else, not because they've forced their ways into the first team reckoning.

agreed, but that wasn't the point why I put the stats in there for. I was putting them in there as support for a reason why an academy is important and how whilst we haven't got players to the level of those mentioned in the OP, what's happening now will help give us a better chance of getting there in future.

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

Well:

- With the U21’s 5th out of 26 teams in PL2;

- The U18’s 3rd in the Northern Division of the U18’s PL;

- And the U17’s in the PL Cup Final on Thursday at Molineux v Chelsea;

Our youngsters are doing alright!

Yes, the injuries in the second half of the season and the financial constraints on us to get in new first teamers have been very annoying, but in flipping the coin has enabled those as named to have there breakthrough and that playing time more than anything else will be huge in terms of progressing there careers.

 

[Ned]

Academy is doing very well this season. U18's in a great position in their league and u21's have done well. We do have some very promising players coming through. I have a feeling we will see a real star come through in the next couple of years. Chiwome is going to be a good player as well, in my opinion.

Agree on Chiwome. Sadly I feel that people will look (and already are looking) at this season and decide that he’s not good enough. He’s clearly got something to work with and a decent loan move the season after next (protect him for another year?) could be the making of him.

Fraser needs experience next season. He almost needs to find his own game in men’s football knowing that he hasn’t got pace to use as a weapon. Needs to adapt which will only come with games.

 

[hollo]

Have we got any real talent in our Academy who could make the breakthrough and become regular members of the first team?

No disrespect at all to Fraser, Chirewa or Chiwome but they are not ready to be thrown in as starters or bench warmers. If it wasn’t for our injuries they would probably be playing occasional games for the Academy.

Have we got any young player who could be the next Kobbie Mainoo, Jacob Ramsey, Conor Bradley, Lewis Miley, Rico Lewis, Phil Foden to name a few who have really impressed me after they came through their clubs Academy’s. Maybe the 3 I have mentioned above could make it, but from what I have seen, they have a long way to go. All 3 probably need to go on loan next season.

Hugo Bueno has done ok for us after stepping up, but is not a regular starter like those mentioned. I can’t think of anyone else since Fosun took over or for a few years before them. I do remember Joleon Lescott and Lee Naylor, but how many years ago were they playing for us?

Any names to look out for or is the Academy a non productive expense.

Chiwome is 18 and has got something about him. For his age he is doing great and could make our bench next season.

 

[hollo]

Dont get me started on our academy. I was critical of it over a decade ago and got told it would take time. We have literally only produce MGW thats been a regular Premier league player who has proved himself.

We have produced quite a few players but not at Gibbs-White's level.

Ryan Giles was a good academy player who earnt us 5 million. Sanderson 2 million. Corbeanu 1 million. That's 8 million this season which isn't bad.

 

[glorybox]

I think the academy has been doing pretty well in developing players for resale further down the food chain. Getting a Gibbs-White every so often is a massive bonus and let's face it he would probably still be here if he wasn't a massive ****. Also it's difficult to stop kids being poached from further up the food chain before they sign a pro contract when you have the likes of Leo Shahar being paid a fortune at Newcastle at 16.

 

[Surrey Wolf]

The issue is, unless you want to buy the best youth talent from across the world in order to have a relatively quick impact on the first team then you need to plough in ££££m's (like Chelsea or Man City). Beyond that, it takes 5-10 years to develop and our small squad policy now, doesn't match the investment in our academy from 5-10 years ago.

On the flip side, a big squad with less opportunities will squeeze budgets and make clubs like Wolves a less attractive proposition for youth players when they (their parents) are choosing a club to go to

This season we've had:

*a youth player or academy graduate in the matchday squad for 95% of our first team games
*a youth player or academy graduate get first team minutes in 68% of our first team games
*Have 15 DIFFERENT academy graduates or youth players named in the first team squad
*7 of those have 1st team minutes under their belt
*those 7 have made 36 appearances

Considering where we are in the league, that is a great deal of opportunity and a world away from where we have been in our entire Premier League tenure. This WILL help in future years - either from a development point of view OR possibly more importantly in the eyes of parents and agents of future MGW's, Fraser's, Chiwome's etc

Certainly gonna help us sign foreign lads who would'nt get a WP

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Lot of talent we need to find a good league one club to feed them. Rotherham / Shrewsbury

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

The Academy more than wipes its own mouth and will continue to do so. In fact we’ve got a very good set up outside of the big boys like Liverpool and city who plough far more money into it. It’s a two fold operation really with one serving the other, the hope being you unearth the old real gem to be a first team player (which is difficult for everyone) the other is to generate some funds which it does.

This does feel like the weekly thread that comes about after a loss to find the new scapegoat to be honest.

Not so SBK. I've questioned the academy and its costs for years. I don't believe it generates funds or covers its costs. The last genuine academy success stories were Robbie Keane and Joleon Lescott and to a lesser extent MGW and Hugo Bueno. IIRC Brentford did away with their academy and they went on to promotion to the Prem. If all it's going to produce are players like Hodge and Cundle, who get loaned out and eventually will be sold for peanuts I still question the need for an academy in these difficult financial times, apart from perhaps a vanity thing.

 

[wolfslair]

I think the academy has been doing pretty well in developing players for resale further down the food chain. Getting a Gibbs-White every so often is a massive bonus and let's face it he would probably still be here if he wasn't a massive ****. Also it's difficult to stop kids being poached from further up the food chain before they sign a pro contract when you have the likes of Leo Shahar being paid a fortune at Newcastle at 16.

Morgan wasn’t exactly treated well at the end of Nuno’s tenure….. calling him back from a loan where he was happy to essentially sit on the bench wasn’t good.

We have our part to play as a club in why he didn’t want to stay.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

Outside of the very big clubs, who just hoover up the best talent, it’s only really the likes of Southampton and Crystal Palace who seem to regularly produce good young talent.

Think it just shows how hard it is to create a Saka, Bellingham, Grealish.

Example, Otasowie looked a potential top player in the Europa league cameo he made (I think against Espanyol), everything about him ticked the box: tall, pacey, skillful, confident, tough tackler… and yet, his career has fizzled out.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Not so SBK. I've questioned the academy and its costs for years. I don't believe it generates funds or covers its costs. The last genuine academy success stories were Robbie Keane and Joleon Lescott and to a lesser extent MGW and Hugo Bueno. IIRC Brentford did away with their academy and they went on to promotion to the Prem. If all it's going to produce are players like Hodge and Cundle, who get loaned out and eventually will be sold for peanuts I still question the need for an academy in these difficult financial times, apart from perhaps a vanity thing.

Unfortunately you’re wrong on this one. The Academy costs approximately £3 million a season. In the last 2 seasons we’ve sold £50 million of players who are academy products.

The next lot of Hodge and Cundle who are undoubtedly surplus to requirements will generate a couple of million a piece and so on and so on. It operates to produce income and give the next generation a foot up on the hope of making. Chiwome is a prime example, would he have come here at 16 with no academy? Absolutely not.

Re Brentford, if their way is better who have they got in the first team that came through?

You can add to our list Hugo Bueno and Kilman, both of whom didn’t sign for us as school boys but did play academy level for us? There’s probably £40 million of value in them