Old school...New school...

[chignalwolf]

On another thread I got accused of being a hoof ball supporter because I wished we crossed the ball more and shot on sight. These 2 things are surely part of any manager's tactics now and 50 years ago? It just seems Wolves have forgotten how to do this?

Couldn't agree more northnorfolkwolf
I remember reading an article a while back when these folk did a study on clubs successful years and the similarities in how they played in successful seasons and the bleak years,
Wolves most successful times were when we played 2 proper wingers (left footer on the left and right footed on the right wing, and proper goal poachers, looking back it rings true all through our history,
not just us but other clubs too.

 

[chignalwolf]

Nuno is a really deep thinker about the game. Mostly in match interviews here, he gave nothing away. But there have been few longer ones in the media and one or two on YT. And if given the chance and an intelligent questioner, he would talk for hours on his ideas! I think his ideas best suit clubs outside the glamour elite level, he's not that into playing attractive football, but completely focussed on effective football. Also sets himself clear rules when dealing with players, officials etc. Never blaming anyone else, always taking responsiblity for your own actions. For a player who is self-disciplined and prepared to work hard, I imagine he would be great to work for as he will get the best out of you. I suspect that if he turns up anywhere other than Sky 6/PSG/Bayern level, he will have even more success.

Sorry to bring him up even more.

never apologise for bringing Nunu name to the front mate,
Clough and Taylor were the same, Derby and Forest were a great similarity to us, and Leeds United were to Spurs of today, Nuno had the misfortune of managing players who thought they were above being coached by him, and was the same at Leeds with Clough,
BBN

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Can't get any simpler that bringing Wout Weghorst on, to get you an equaliser in the cup final. The ultimate big man up front. No messing, just get the ball his head. Not even his head. Just get him to stand in the box and ping the ball in off him.

Traore and Jimenez - remember? It can be done.

 

[Contrarian]

Traore and Jimenez - remember? It can be done.

Agreed. Kind of mocking myself a bit as Weghorst is a player I've thought would do well for us. Maybe he would if he had Traore providing the assists? In the World Cup, Weghorst looked really good for the Dutch.

Semedo pinging the crosses in for Cunha isn't quite the same as Traore floating them in for Raul. Semedo rarely gets the ball over the first defender. And if he does, Cunha jumps like he's got lead in his boots.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

We d not need XG to tell us what we can see with our own eyes. XG does not tell us what we need to do to improve the situation - it is obvious without it!

Go on then?

Are you just gonna say 'shoot more'? Get it forward more?

It is a little bit more in depth than that.

 

[Contrarian]

never apologise for bringing Nunu name to the front mate,
Clough and Taylor were the same, Derby and Forest were a great similarity to us, and Leeds United were to Spurs of today, Nuno had the misfortune of managing players who thought they were above being coached by him, and was the same at Leeds with Clough,
BBN

The one fault I think Nuno had with us, was that he always set us up the same and rarely did anything specifically for the different types of opponents. Overall, it worked, but there was some bad misfires. Especially seeing us set up to defend and counter against a team at the bottom of the table , who weren't getting out of their half either. Whether that was just for us, that he thought our players too limited to change tack for different games, so preferred us 100% organised. I remember after one match, pundits praising us and saying we were the "best side in Europe without the ball". And we were at that time. In Europe, not just the PL! Unique and something to be proud of. It's why the top 6 hated playing us. Drove me mad sometimes, seeing us with 11 behind the ball against Norwich or Huddersfield, but overall, it worked.

 

[OLDGOLD]

My point entirely! Football is a fairly simple game being complicated by people who think they are adding to things by coming up with stuff like XG. We do not need Xg to analyse the quality of our shooting - that is why the good lord gave us eyes!
Reading through some of the supposed technical comments on the various comms threads, I do wonder if some people are watching something other than football!

Mate watching us play, sometimes I think I am watching something other than football as well

 

[Bacon Sandwich]

Old school
Free kick in the centre circle
Stick it in the mixer
Might score a goal

New school
Free kick in the centre circle
Take it short, try and retain possession, back to the goalie, try and play out from the back
Might concede a goal

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Old school
Free kick in the centre circle
Stick it in the mixer
Might score a goal

New school
Free kick in the centre circle
Take it short, try and retain possession, back to the goalie, try and play out from the back
Might concede a goal

You got it!! Time to use wingers again

 

[AndyY]

When is someone gonna rehash cullis's plan of get it in the oppositions box within 3 touches, using long diagonals to mega fast wingers. Worked well, 4 seasons in a row of scoring 100 or more in the top league (ok they conceded a lot)

And the MW system

 

[Jack Russell]

Go on then?

Are you just gonna say 'shoot more'? Get it forward more?

It is a little bit more in depth than that.

It is a lot more in depth than that!

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Old school
Free kick in the centre circle
Stick it in the mixer
Might score a goal

New school
Free kick in the centre circle
Take it short, try and retain possession, back to the goalie, try and play out from the back
Might concede a goal

New school. Kick off in the centre circle, pass it back to the keeper, lump it long to the big guy, challenge for the knockdown, volley the loose ball in from 20 yards. City can play it either way, which is why Man U couldn't press them and they can knock it round all day. Of course nobody did that 30 years ago as it would stick in the mud, bobble etc or the defensive players just weren't technically good enough.

 

[Oldvic161]

Old school= exciting competitive football
New school=boring possession football dominated by a couple of teams
It maybe my age but football has lost its appeal, until someone comes up with a plan to nullify City’s way of playing they’re going to dominate and I find their play boring.

 

[Contrarian]

Old school= exciting competitive football
New school=boring possession football dominated by a couple of teams
It maybe my age but football has lost its appeal, until someone comes up with a plan to nullify City’s way of playing they’re going to dominate and I find their play boring.

You can't nullify their play on the pitch, as long as they are buying up the very best players in the world. It's not 100% linear and predictable, but broadly, money does buy success. You could point at Chelsea this season, but then they have won the Champions League twice. Because of their innovative tactics? Did somebody at the club find some revolutionary means of winning? Monkey glands? Nope, it was Abramovic's money that took them into the elite.

Not all the big spending clubs win things. But virtually all the clubs who win things are among the biggest spenders and have been since the Champions League and Premier League cash started flowing.

What they need to do is handicap teams based on spend. Deduct a point at the start of the season for every net 50m spent, maybe? Or some kind of draft, whereby the teams that finish lowest get first pick of the players at end of contract. A 10 point deduction if your squad includes a player with the surname: Haaland or Grealish.

Thing is, it isn't really meant to be competitive. Even billionaires dont burn money. Football is very risky, as said. You need to spend to compete for trophies, but even that doesn't guarantee anything. Far more risky than most regular business. To an extent, it's fake competition. All the twists and turns during a season, the number of times Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs are "In crises". Definitely recall posts here by people a couple of seasons ago saying that we were going to take Arsenals place in the Big 6, because they were falling and we had overtaken them. Then look at Leicester. No room for any more at the top, and those profiting most from the game don't want anything like that happening again. It's fake competition, just enough to keep the fans watching. And globally, the money would be in some combination of Bayern/Barca/Real/Sky 6 playing each other every week. The likes of Brentford or Monza or Frieberg in the Champions league is a disaster for the profiteers.

This season must be exceptional in that only four of the Sky 6 finished in the top 6. Can be sure they will be furious about that and will be plotting the downfall of Brighton right now! Rest assured, Chelsea will be back soon enough and Liverpool back in the Champions League as if they'd never been away. While Brighton will be the next us (or Swansea/Charlton/Sheff U etc). Brief hope that flickers before extinguished.

Anyway, my view is that it isn't the game on field that has got boring. There were plenty of dour dull matches in the past. What's boring is the same few teams winning everything every season. It's not a genuine level playing field. In the 60's and 70's, every season started with maybe 10 teams in with serious title challenge. It's only 3 or 4 now. And the same 3 or 4 every season - even worse in Spain and Germany. That's what I find boring.

 

[Mugwump]

Old school football was entertaining and in its day was good. Watch a game from the 70's now for example ( plenty of them on Youtube ) and its very poor technically. The standard is Championship level. If you added the caveat that both teams were of an equal fitness level, none of the top teams from 30 years ago and before would stand a chance over a season against the top sides of today. I think the top players from previous era's would still do really well, but your regular players wouldnt.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Go on then?

Are you just gonna say 'shoot more'? Get it forward more?

It is a little bit more in depth than that.

It really isn't. You are one of the many whom, I expect, look at Xg stats and possession stats and all sorts of stats? How difficult is it to train/indoctrinate players when they get in the right position and have the opportunity to either shoot at goal or get a cross in. We choose for whatever reason to fanny about around the area and out wide and invariably lose the ball. Football is simple.

 

[Southdownswolf]

It really isn't. You are one of the many whom, I expect, look at Xg stats and possession stats and all sorts of stats? How difficult is it to train/indoctrinate players when they get in the right position and have the opportunity to either shoot at goal or get a cross in. We choose for whatever reason to fanny about around the area and out wide and invariably lose the ball. Football is simple.

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics


Sometimes the answer is right there in front of you... Get the ball in the damn box and shoot!

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics


Sometimes the answer is right there in front of you... Get the ball in the damn box and shoot!

I'm sorry one and all if I'm getting boring over this but I do think this issue is interesting and lies at the heart of the problems we've suffered over the past few seasons. If I was a manager every Monday I'd sit the squad down in front of the TV and analyse the previous match in some detail. With the players I'd replay why they did/did not do something in a particular situation and try to give them options to do things better when in the same position in the next match. For example, why did you not take that shot on when the space was there? Why did you not get a cross over when you had beaten your man? Why did you pass back when a forward pass to x was on? Perhaps this is what coaches do, I don't know, but for me constant repetition of what I expect would be a daily agenda.

 

[chignalwolf]

The one fault I think Nuno had with us, was that he always set us up the same and rarely did anything specifically for the different types of opponents. Overall, it worked, but there was some bad misfires. Especially seeing us set up to defend and counter against a team at the bottom of the table , who weren't getting out of their half either. Whether that was just for us, that he thought our players too limited to change tack for different games, so preferred us 100% organised. I remember after one match, pundits praising us and saying we were the "best side in Europe without the ball". And we were at that time. In Europe, not just the PL! Unique and something to be proud of. It's why the top 6 hated playing us. Drove me mad sometimes, seeing us with 11 behind the ball against Norwich or Huddersfield, but overall, it worked.

yeah you are not wrong and some very good points,
I do think he was going to move us up a gear but we were hit by the Raúl Jiménez injury,( think we were 4th at the time, ) then covid hit, no crowds which effected every club but seemed to hit clubs like our where the home support was an advantage,

Something he did bring me was the fact I once again started looking forward to our matches regardless of who or where we were playing,
had been a long time before that I could say that, But as they say " we will never know now but I do believe he has some unfinished work with us.
BBN

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Think of it this way,

Old School - players out on the dance floor at a disco, DJ changes the music and the players switch between, Northern Soul, 2 Tone, and Punk in a general manner but largely free-styling .

New School - players out on the Ballroom dance floor, have a strictly choreographed sequence of moves and steps on which they will be marked by someone sitting on the sidelines who will judge every little movement against a diagram on a clipboard.

And then someone will process the dance moves, give it some xD score and declare how much better it should have been…

 

[chignalwolf]

Old school football was entertaining and in its day was good. Watch a game from the 70's now for example ( plenty of them on Youtube ) and its very poor technically. The standard is Championship level. If you added the caveat that both teams were of an equal fitness level, none of the top teams from 30 years ago and before would stand a chance over a season against the top sides of today. I think the top players from previous era's would still do really well, but your regular players wouldnt.

We will never know, but todays teams have a choice from some of the best players in the World today, If 30 yrs ago they had the same choice I would put those teams on par with todays teams,
also just compare the playing pitches conditions over a season back then, to the billiard table pitches played on all season today,

 

[Spitfire]

We will never know, but todays teams have a choice from some of the best players in the World today, If 30 yrs ago they had the same choice I would put those teams on par with todays teams,
also just compare the playing pitches conditions over a season back then, to the billiard table pitches played on all season today,

Molineux pitch now looks better in May than it used to do in August. The progress in pitches these days Is incredible.

 

[chignalwolf]

Molineux pitch now looks better in May than it used to do in August. The progress in pitches these days Is incredible.

I'd love to see the likes of Waggy on todays pitches, and also include using the footballs of today,
turning the debate around, Wonder how todays players would cope back then, that's the question,

 

[ewarwoowar]

reminds me of many years ago when the F.A guru Charles Hughes i think it was gave a seminar on tactics at Lilleshall and the great Bob Paisley walked out saying he was confused as to what he was talking about and was trying to teach him how to win football matches!!he was basically saying he was trying to make the game more difficult than it should be