Neves and Moutinho

[WillenhallWolfie1980]

Time to bring in another Midfielder to pair with either dendonker or Neves , I feel that Moutinho's performances have not been up to the standard , His free kicks and corners are pathetic and i think he's lost a yard of pace

Saying that though Neves has hardly been pulling any trees up , His shooting is terrible now and he's way below in his performances

Neves and Moutinho cannot play together anymore , One or both has to be dropped , We need to sort that centre of the park out , Between them i've seen a route master accelerate quicker

 

[dewolfman]

Agree, this pairing has never really worked together, don’t know why Nuno persists.

 

[WalsallWolf]

They are too static to be a pairing. They both need a ball winner next to them.

 

[Highlandwolf2]

Sadly if there were any alternatives (there aren't unless something happens in the next 7 days) I would replace both of these players over the duration of the season. One is nearing the end of a great career and the other is being found out with the high energy, high pressing game that many clubs employ. There is a desperate need for pace and aggression in midfield and we as yet are miles from this. Someone on here has wisely said we are at the crossroads and I must agree.

 

[Woburn Wolf]

I would definitely retain Neves. His range of passing and ability to recycle the ball effectively make him a key part of the midfield. With Donk alongside him plus ANO (maybe Vitinho in time) we could have an effective midfield.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

There has got to be a change, I feel we must pursue vitinha or donck in midfield as vitinha showed he was willing to come forward with the ball. I have said it on previous threads i dont want to see a mouts and neves pairing anywhere near a team sheet

 

[1972 i began]

Think most of us see that Neves and Moutinho are not the ideal partnership.Definitely needs changing after last night performance.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

The pairing have had success together but I feel this has been when they have time and space to game manage, more often than not when going toe to toe with the ‘bigger’ teams. Teams no longer give us that time and space and it shows.
Neves for me plays much, much to deep and Moutinho I think now has to accept a steadying old head ‘off the bench’ role. I like Moutinho but time waits for no man.

 

[NewarkWolf]

More like Laurel and hardy in there yesterday. Totally totally ineffective

 

[hambaps]

Sadly if there were any alternatives (there aren't unless something happens in the next 7 days) I would replace both of these players over the duration of the season. One is nearing the end of a great career and the other is being found out with the high energy, high pressing game that many clubs employ. There is a desperate need for pace and aggression in midfield and we as yet are miles from this. Someone on here has wisely said we are at the crossroads and I must agree.

He isn't being "found out" he is playing in a two man midfield where the other has lost his form. He was the standout performer in the second half of last season and he has been carrying others in this season.

 

[wwbug]

I am sure moutinho is very tired .
Please give him a rest and he may be of great value throughout the season.

 

[Bankswolf The Third]

All the way back to Huddersfield and then Watford at home this pair didn't work and its been the same ever since
The Donk is possibly the most underrated player we have and time and time again we struggle with him on the bench. If he wants to play possession football I would rather Vitinha play than Moutinho if I am honest

 

[Highlandwolf2]

He isn't being "found out" he is playing in a two man midfield where the other has lost his form. He was the standout performer in the second half of last season and he has been carrying others in this season.

There are some fair points in what you say. But for what it’s worth I feel we can’t see the best of him whilst Nuno maintains the current formation and I don’t think that will change. His game is based on his ability to pass the ball (which he is very good at) but he has no pace and cant take on an opponent. In some respects he is wasted in the current set up. With a few exceptions his performances have dipped in the last 12 months.

 

[Derbywolf85]

I agree that unfortunately it looks like this partnership that looked to be great in the first part of 18/19 and in spells during 19/20 has now run it's course. Need more legs and Dendoncker provides that.

Joao has been wonderful and is still by a distance the most technically astute footballer I have seen in gold and black, but his time has come to have a seat on the bench and be the back up option. Real shame.

 

[SakosRightFoot]

Moutinho is the problem, he’s way too slow to do anything which is fine when you’re playing a bigger team as his composure used to buy us a bit of time, but against a team like that who just sat back like we used to you’ve got to move it quicker and he can’t do that it’s too predictable. No way should they be playing together. Time has come for Neves to be the main man with Dendoncker and Moutinho to come from the bench

 

[Daveywolf]

Neither of them can run with the ball or go past a player, the new kid or Shabani both can and need to be used

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Neither of them can run with the ball or go past a player, the new kid or Shabani both can and need to be used

i did forget about shabani he could be an option both him and vitinha seem to want to run from midfield

 

[Direwolf]

I thought Neves was okay. Moutinho was 5ft 7 of football mediocrity in that game. I think they both tried very hard but the game got away from us which left them looking exposed and lacking creativity. On another day we could well be singing their praises again.

 

[hollo]

Moutinho to come off the bench from now on.

 

[Scallywolf]

They are too static to be a pairing. They both need a ball winner next to them.

We have to play one of them in midfield, preferably a further forward playing Neves, with a holding midfielder, preferably Donk, in front of the defence. Play someone with creativity pushing forward regularly into the final third. That could be Vitinha.

We are creating and scoring zilch from midfield and it needs a shake up. Not for a couple of games but for the season!

 

[Kebab Warrior]

We have to play one of them in midfield, preferably a further forward playing Neves, with a holding midfielder, preferably Donk, in front of the defence. Play someone with creativity pushing forward regularly into the final third. That could be Vitinha.

We are creating and scoring zilch from midfield and it needs a shake up. Not for a couple of games but for the season!

We aren’t setup to score from midfield. We have two sitting defensive midfielders. One’s job was to be neat and tidy and recycle the ball, the other was to hit long passes from deep to start counters. The problem is that Jonny isn’t on one side, Doc isn’t on the other and Coady is/was doing Neves’ task anyway. They now need a 3rd man but then who do you take off? You either change the shape or you wait for Semedo to bed in and Marcal / Jonny / anyone / my mum to be fit for LWB.

 

[Tarcisio Mifsud]

Cannot understand why Dendoncker is not in the team.

 

[Kingswood Wolf]

Let's just start treating Moutinho as he is: a veteran. To be used intelligently and tactically, but not starting often and probably never making 90 mins in the Premier League.

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

In fairness to Moutinho, I would say Alberto Juantorena would struggle to cover the space between our deep defence and attack.
In a pressing side where the pitch was condensed and midfield was more congested he would still be a fine player

 

[JayStringer]

I think it's premature to write Moutinho off, but I also think it's time to take him out of the striating eleven and come up with a better plan for him.

All those of us who are older than Mouts will know how the body reacts differently (especially in the morning, oof.)
I worked as a bike courier for years, in my thirties. The key thing wasn't actually the exertion I was putting in or my ability/inabillity too cope, it was my routine. I could go for long stretches - months- with a heavy workload as long as I stuck to the same physical routine. If I took a couple days off, or started late, or missed one day due to bike repair, I started to feel the tiredness creep in, because my routine was off.

Moutinho has been playing professionally for nearly two decades. And his life - his body- will have been set around the same cycle. Playing at the same times of year, resting at the same times of year. 2020 has thrown that out the window. Suddenly he wasn't playing from march- June, when he normally would be, then was playing through July and august -when he'd normally be resting and training (give or take internationals) then a month off when he'd normally be back playing, and then into playing without the full proper pre-season a player of his age badly needs.

It's not over for him. His legs haven't 'gone.' He's just off his routine. If they can admit there's a problem, and work out a pre-season conditioning plan for him, then I'm fully sure he can come back to being the player we all know. But in the meantime, give Dendoncker and Vitinho the games.

 

[Deleted member 11157]

I am sure moutinho is very tired .
Please give him a rest and he may be of great value throughout the season.

Tired? They were in lockdown for months. The guy is as fit as a fiddle.

 

[Flea]

I was surprised that Nuno went with Neves-Moutinho against Hammers.
Looking back over a long period of time,it simply doesn´t work anymore..and to me Mouts looks his age nowadays,unfortunately.
It is overdue to let Neves step up and run our central midfield from his best position..and for sure that is not playing alongside or just in front of Coady.

It is understandable if one holds on regarding a player that has been great for such a long time as Moutinho.
However,we have done exactly that now..and the end result is unfortunately the logical one.
Moutinho and Donk worked okay against Blades.I do feel that over a little bit of time..Neves and Donk will click even better.

Repeating the same mistake over and over and expecting a different end result is not what an intelligent bloke like Nuno does.
It has to be Donk in midfield from now..and once again I would strongly recommend us to go after Thomas Partey in the remainder of this transfer window.

If not Partey,we will need another truly high quality def midfielder.

 

[Fifty Niner]

Agree, this pairing has never really worked together, don’t know why Nuno persists.

It’s like Sven with Gerrard and Lampard, as as already been pointed out.

 

[Hawkguy]

I don't know if Moutinho has really lost pace. He just works much better in a 3 than 2.

 

[MattH]

The Neves and Mout pairing has been a weak spot for years. First season up we lost a fair few games due to teams just running through our midfield. Would like to see Donk come in whilst Vitinha adjusts.

 

[Wolves Heathen]

Joao has been caught up by old lady time, the Premier League is an unforgiving place when the body no longer can do what it wants to do, for a time the football brain can cover what the legs cant do, Ruben has never been the most mobile of players, it has to be one or the other in future, remember Nuno started with Joao and Donk against the Blades, personally i would go with Ruben and Donk, we need more mobility in the middle of the park Donk brings us that, and young Vitinha also looks capable of bringing that to the team but he isnt yet the finished product, giving him half an hour in games is the way to go with him at the moment, of course their is a ready made player allegedly available in Joao Palhinha but i guess we dont want to go that way or we would have brought him in by now..

 

[Barnet Wolves]

I think Mouts needs to move to coaching

 

[Coshamwolves]

Massive mistake to leave Dendonker out against this team. This present centre mid cannot continue...one or the other..probs `mouts out whos doing nothing. I think our CB will sort themselves out, but the midfields tragic at the moment.

 

[Deleted member 11332]

I don't know if Moutinho has really lost pace. He just works much better in a 3 than 2.

Worked fine in a 2 with your man Donk. Btw I'm coming round to your way or thinking. He has to play, every game.

 

[Hawkguy]

Worked fine in a 2 with your man Donk. Btw I'm coming round to your way or thinking. He has to play, every game.

Well that's because Donk covers 99% of the pitch himself lol

His unlimited motor just makes him so valuable to us, in my opinion. He can run box to box constantly and keep up his pace for most of the game.

 

[Hawkguy]

Joao has been caught up by old lady time, the Premier League is an unforgiving place when the body no longer can do what it wants to do, for a time the football brain can cover what the legs cant do, Ruben has never been the most mobile of players, it has to be one or the other in future, remember Nuno started with Joao and Donk against the Blades, personally i would go with Ruben and Donk, we need more mobility in the middle of the park Donk brings us that, and young Vitinha also looks capable of bringing that to the team but he isnt yet the finished product, giving him half an hour in games is the way to go with him at the moment, of course their is a ready made player allegedly available in Joao Palhinha but i guess we dont want to go that way or we would have brought him in by now..

I mean he is an older fellow and there was no real off-season for him to recharge.

But to be fair, our midfield looked best this season with Moutinho and Dendoncker. Neves and Dendoncker were fine against Stoke - we got plenty of chances and Ruddy let in an awful shot.

The two games of Moutinho and Neves.... yikes

 

[Eastern Wolf]

Neither player has that oomph for want of a better word. Tidy and technical and both excellent at recycling the ball. Mout is a fantastic short-range passer and Neves can pick out longer range visionary passes on top of that. But neither has pace nor can they drive at opponents with the ball at feet. Neither have a physical presence or are particularly strong in the tackle. Neither have a very strong engine. So, as someone who is not an "expert" on the game, if I can see that they are too similar - why can't the coaches?
Perhaps because he is such a Portuguese legend, the Portuguese coaches feel compelled to always play Moutinho. Are they in awe of him and pay him too much respect? Or is his salary so high that they feel pressure to play him? Whatever it is, for me, Neves has more to offer and is the future of the club. On his day - he is a gamechanger. He can play that defence-splitting ball or hit that long volley into the net. Don't see that from Moutinho. Joao still has a lot to offer to the club but in the cut and thrust of the PL, he is looking a little slow now. He can play instead as backup to Neves when Neves is not available, has a bad patch or is injured - but not alongside him.
We should pair Neves with a more dynamic physical player who has a good engine. Dendonker suits the role. Sais could also be an option. Otherwise, Otasowie - a good prospect from what I've seen-could be given a chance. But Donk and Sais are journeymen in reality and dont offer a way for the club to move forward. They may steady the ship though and will do for now.
Currently, we lack physicality in midfield and in our third year in the PL now, opponents have studied us and have identified this problem. We need to urgently address it.

 

[MutchAdo]

Dendoncker has played for Anderlecht and us. How on earth is that a journeyman?

 

[Wolfman jack]

Creativity is what we seem to have lost, when AT doesnt produce, very little else does. And goals ftom midfield are as rare as hens teeth. Urgently needs addressing.

 

[Wolves Heathen]

Creativity is what we seem to have lost, when AT doesnt produce, very little else does. And goals ftom midfield are as rare as hens teeth. Urgently needs addressing.

Yes we do seem toothless, and have done since Ruben lost his shooting boots, but then again very few goals are scored from around the halfway line..