Modern football

[lostwolf]

There's reportedly interest now from the Saudi regime, or some puppet of theirs, in Man Utd. If this happens, there will be autocratic regimes and their representatives owning how many English football clubs?

Utd = Saudi / whoever they get in to front it
Us = China / Fosun
Man City = UAE
Chelsea = Russia / Abramovich
Southampton = China / Gao
Everton = Iran / Moshiri
Bournemouth = Russia / Demin

It's getting close to a third of clubs. And many of those are throwing their considerable, morally dubious, weight around up near the top. Have I missed any out?

 

[woop woop barmy army]

Watford
Leicester
Liverpool

 

[lostwolf]

Watford
Leicester
Liverpool

Liverpool have American owners, Watford Italian and Leicester Thai (whose human rights record is awful but they're not an 'autocratic' regime by most accounts).

 

[De Wolfs Mullet]

China's very democratic. Guns n' Roses even did an album about it.

 

[lostwolf]

China's very democratic. Guns n' Roses even did an album about it.

I'm very democratic as long as you agree with me.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

It’s a tricky one really, my gut reaction is I am against it. But then I fully appreciate that makes me a hypocrite as these are by far the best years of supporting Wolves in my near 33 years on this planet, and I wouldn’t want Fosun out as a result of that!

 

[derbyrameater]

The UK is a plutocracy IMO, so instead of one person it's a whole bunch.

Political thread here it goes...whooooosh!

 

[JadeWolf]

As long as they're willing to back the club, but without risking its financial future, then does it really matter where the money comes from?

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

As long as they're willing to back the club, but without risking its financial future, then does it really matter where the money comes from?

If it comes from ill-gotten gains it’s probably not right. I’m sure somewhere along the line the Fosun network have exploited some sectors. But as I said above, this makes me a hypocrite as I’m loving being a Wolves fan at the moment.

 

[themanwhobuiltthemoon]

The Man City owners have been fantastic not only for the club but the city of Manchester.

Appreciate the initial post wasn’t as such a direct attack on foreign owners, but people seem to forget that for every questionable overseas owner there’s also a cowboy like Peter Risdale or Karl Oyston. It’s always the foreign owners that get the flack

 

[lycophilos]

If it comes from ill-gotten gains it’s probably not right. I’m sure somewhere along the line the Fosun network have exploited some sectors. But as I said above, this makes me a hypocrite as I’m loving being a Wolves fan at the moment.

I'm pretty sure that no big business, anywhere, is entirely without dirt on its hands. Stories come out repeatedly of respected companies exploiting workers in the third world. And many have been caught guilty of tax avoidance, not least in the UK.

 

[Phitsanulok (Poole) Wolf]

The Leicester owners get their wealth from Duty Free Retail at the two main airports in Thailand. Not essentially political as Thai politics are fluid and self prreserving.

 

[lycophilos]

Of course, all "clubs" should be owned by the fans, or the local community. But that horse has long bolted the stable. In fact, as soon as football became professional - some time in the 19th century - the evolution to the present situation was almost inevitable. Fan owned clubs do exist, but are usually at a great disadvantage, financially, to those clubs with rich owners. The most that fans of most clubs can hope for, is that their owners take a genuine interest in the club, and are not using it purely as a money-making scheme for themselves. In that respect, Wolves, Manchester City and Chelsea come out rather well - Arsenal and Newcastle rather worse.

I am a fan of AFC Wimbledon, and also an owner of a tiny part of the club. But we know that it will be very very difficult for us to even get anywhere near the EPL, let alone making any impact in it.

 

[wolvesultra]

As long as they're willing to back the club, but without risking its financial future, then does it really matter where the money comes from?

Even if it turned out it came from something like child trafficking?

 

[clivewolves]

I think Moshiri is a British citizen. Doesn't matter to me either way.

 

[Peszkywolf]

The Saudis are a pretty nasty bunch in every way.
This will probably be PeszkyWolfs last post....before I'm invited to a consular building and cut up scarface style!
As much as I'm loving the rise and rise of this club, I'm not exactly proud of where the money comes from.

 

[JadeWolf]

Even if it turned out it came from something like child trafficking?

Bit of an extreme example! There’s a chance that Fosun have done one or two dodgy things along the way (not like that though) but what business hasn’t?

I’m not saying it’s good or bad. But just as a fan I wanna see Wolves do well, and so far Fosun have been great.

 

[wolvesultra]

Bit of an extreme example! There’s a chance that Fosun have done one or two dodgy things along the way (not like that though) but what business hasn’t?

I’m not saying it’s good or bad. But just as a fan I wanna see Wolves do well, and so far Fosun have been great.

I wasn't specifically talking about Fosun to be honest I thought the thread was more ownership in general.

You said it doesn't matter where the money comes as long as the owners back the relevant club my example was an extreme one but so was your statement of 'it doesn't matter' would include extreme examples.

If Fosun were linked to money coming in from organised crime (I'm not saying they aren't I don't believe they are) are you saying that Wolves being successful would mean you wouldn't care where the money came from?

 

[cowshed]

It amazes me how most club owners pass the fit and proper test and obtain there football club.

Full investigation into Thaksin Sinawatras involvement with Man City should never have been allowed, and also from Thailand how can Boiler Room Scam artists be allowed to own an English football club?

 

[Eddie's Eagle]

It shouldn't be this way but it is. But careful wording is needed in a discussion like this.

However it would not take much time to unearth abuses by said regimes above. Tieing anything to owners / corporations however is an entirely different proposition.

However I admire the apparent support we have from Fosun. It feels in some ways more than just a business to them. But that's good PR for you and their excellent understanding of brand and image.

Ach, this is such a difficult one. Modern day ownership goes against many of my principles but yes, the present for Wolves is great.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I always think it turns a bit racist when discussing this. There have been as many dodgy british investors over the years as well as foreign investment. Ultimately their is a "fit and proper" test and realistically all you can do is follow that. When United were first brought by the Glazers they paid £500 million then the next day took out a loan in simplistic terms for the same amount and then paid themselves back. Ridsdale, Oyston, Robert Maxwell, all had murky hands. As much as we loved Sir Jack and all the "britishness" of him, he was in tax exile.

 

[JadeWolf]

I wasn't specifically talking about Fosun to be honest I thought the thread was more ownership in general.

You said it doesn't matter where the money comes as long as the owners back the relevant club my example was an extreme one but so was your statement of 'it doesn't matter' would include extreme examples.

If Fosun were linked to money coming in from organised crime (I'm not saying they aren't I don't believe they are) are you saying that Wolves being successful would mean you wouldn't care where the money came from?

I’m saying that Fosun have been brilliant so far for Wolves, and I don’t get this constant attempt to undermine them. If it came out that there was something really dodgy going on then yeah it wouldn’t be great, but as there’s nothing to say anything is happening, just enjoy what they’re doing.

 

[Edgmond Wolf]

I’m saying that Fosun have been brilliant so far for Wolves, and I don’t get this constant attempt to undermine them. If it came out that there was something really dodgy going on then yeah it wouldn’t be great, but as there’s nothing to say anything is happening, just enjoy what they’re doing.

This in Spades
We get loads of threads turn negative.....

Wolverhampton ain't a city
Wolverhampton is a poor away venue
Fosun this and that
Supporting Kingy a In laying out the Remembrance....

What is wrong with some people?

Enjoy it
It is the best Wolves have ever played in my life
Yet we still get moaners...get a life FFS

 

[WW1963]

The UK is a plutocracy IMO, so instead of one person it's a whole bunch.

Political thread here it goes...whooooosh!

This is true. The left/right paradigm is an illusion of choice.

 

[wolvesultra]

I’m saying that Fosun have been brilliant so far for Wolves, and I don’t get this constant attempt to undermine them. If it came out that there was something really dodgy going on then yeah it wouldn’t be great, but as there’s nothing to say anything is happening, just enjoy what they’re doing.

The post wasn’t about fosun though was it, it was about owners in general. Who mentioned this thread was about Wolves?

 

[waggys left foot]

Watford
Leicester
Liverpool

And Cardiff

This is true. The left/right paradigm is an illusion of choice.

 

[waggys left foot]

And Arsenal and Fulham.Yanks are autocratic aint they.

 

[Stratman Wolves]

And Arsenal and Fulham.Yanks are autocratic aint they.

Nah, like you we are plutocratic. We learned from our older brother's example.

 

[lostwolf]

I’m saying that Fosun have been brilliant so far for Wolves, and I don’t get this constant attempt to undermine them. If it came out that there was something really dodgy going on then yeah it wouldn’t be great, but as there’s nothing to say anything is happening, just enjoy what they’re doing.

I'm not trying to undermine them Jade, and agree that they have been superb for us so far. I posted the OP because I heard on the radio about Saudi interest in another club and reflected on the current situation vis-a-vis foreign ownership and where the power sits in English football. I'm uncomfortable with the whole set up, and always look enviously at the German model, but as someone else commented, that ship has well and truly sailed. That said, I think it's important that we continue to think about where the money goes even if it's uncomfortable for us to do so.

 

[JadeWolf]

I'm not trying to undermine them Jade, and agree that they have been superb for us so far. I posted the OP because I heard on the radio about Saudi interest in another club and reflected on the current situation vis-a-vis foreign ownership and where the power sits in English football. I'm uncomfortable with the whole set up, and always look enviously at the German model, but as someone else commented, that ship has well and truly sailed. That said, I think it's important that we continue to think about where the money goes even if it's uncomfortable for us to do so.

I get what you mean definitely but I just think it’s how you see things really. You’ve probably got good reasons to doubt foreign owners, I don’t know as much about it as others, but equally some owners have been amazing for the clubs and cities, so there’s good and bad to everything, and it’s sometimes easier to focus just on the bad.

 

[Peszkywolf]

Unless it's a Bhutan company then they'll probably have murky business interests. Think theres a point when you have to think these lot are proper wronguns.
Guess you have to weigh up whether the owners are so dodgy that you give up what you really love doing.
Did the Glazers get that loan out straight away, sounds ridiculous and proof that money makes money.

 

[Floyd Man]

When you think about it our previous owner Sir Jack would never have considered selling to the owners we now have. That kind of stance that he took bothered me big time. Because I knew that if Wolves were ever going to do anything they would have to let in foreign owners. It's been a rocky road but we are now up there with the big hitters. Who wants out?

 

[wallace]

We are the plebs that pay to be entertained, not to analyse what is good or bad. Of course we know what is acceptable but are powerless to do much about anything other than not get corrupted by it and chose whether to be involved. Enjoy the skills on the pitch or not is the only choice you can make.