Max Toti Dawson Santi or Boly Coady Bennett Saiss?

[Milijas]

Just had this debate in the pub with a couple of wolves fans ( a rare thing as I live in Gloucestershire)

I'm undecided.. Boly was an absolute Rolls Royce defender for a brief period. Coady was a leader ( a little overrated in my opinion) This period was glorious!

But.. I think Dawson brings a lot of experience and I personally rate Max!

One thing is for sure none of them i'd want in a back 4 and thank god we ain't seeing the Kilman / Collins partnership under Lage anymore.

Who would you take?

 

[Perton Wolf]

The back 3 of Boly, Coady and Saiss were better as a unit than Kilman, Dawson and Toti are.

Dawson is an upgrade on Coady in a defensive sense but Boly & Saiss in their primes for us were better than Kilman & Toti, undoubtedly.

When assessing the teams and styles within which they played, of course.

 

[iamthenewno2]

Both I am confident in, the main difference I think about is the attacking threat, Boly and Saiss could score, Dawson can but I feel Kilman will do by accident (no offence to him as it isn't his job), so old boys win on that front.

 

[Milijas]

Well said both.
Definitely agree with goals, Saiss always had one in him.
I was swaying towards the old guard in said debate but in terms of depth does Santi eclipse Bennett?
I guess current batch younger too..

 

[lostwolf]

The Captains series on Netflix (crap btw, don't waste your time), where Saiss is quite prominent in one episode, had me thinking we maybe took him for granted a bit.

Personally thought Boly was overrated by us (unpopular opinion I know, and I'm not saying he isn't a decent PL defender) and I like Max but I'd go: Dawson, Coady, Saiss... all decent with the ball at their feet. Toti I love but don't rate, although I know that makes no objective sense!

I'd want Patricio behind them though; Sa's a clown on the floor.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Boly- Dawson-Saiss for me.

Nothing lasts for ever though and Toti and Kilman will develop.

 

[Perton Wolf]

Boly- Dawson-Saiss for me.

Nothing lasts for ever though and Toti and Kilman will develop.

Yes, that's the best 3.

Although, will say Coady's passing range at the time was important for the way we played, even if he he's not a PL standard defender in his own right. Specialist role in a specific system, right place/right time.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

Current 3 are better as a unit purely because coady made us play so deep due to his limitations.

Also toti has the pace to get us out of a lot of situations.

The best 3 would be

Boly Dawson Toti

 

[Jawwfc]

Difficult to say can't really be compared on clean sheets/goals conceded, we were far more defensive and now we tend to transition from a 5 to a 4 with either Ait Nouri/Bueno or Semedo occupying a winger type role.

I suppose the question would be could Boly/Bennet/Coady/Saiss play the way Kilman/Toti/Kilman/Bueno play? With the exception of Boly I think they would struggle but could see the current crop doing just aswell in the nuno system that been said none of our current defenders are as good at passing as coady.

The centre half's of the Nuno era were fantastic but they were helped massively by the system played, Bennet went from struggling in the championship to playing brilliantly for us as we finished 7th in the Premier league but quickly fell down the leagues.

With the exception of Boly. The other defenders Bennett,Coady and Saiss either struggled in other systems or dropped down the leagues quickly (I believe Bennett is now at Cambridge/Saiss is in Qatar) all 4 of them are either younger or the same age as Dawson and I wouldn't swap him for any of those currently.

 

[Poztin]

Dawson could easily play the Coady role and is a much better defender. His distribution is seriously underrated.

Peak Boly was one of the best in the league, behind maybe VVD only.

Then a toss up between Kilman and Saiss for me.

 

[Willywolf]

I think there was a point that many fans would have driven to go and bring Bennett back but his contribution was underrated by a few.

Saiss was one of my favourite players of recent times despite having a brain fart or yellow card in him: strong, great left foot, not quick but not a slouch, always a goal threat, determination. I’d swap him for Toti although Toti is developing well atm.

Coady - many say great leader and perhaps he was at a time we needed a big character to unite the group. As someone else said, he was one of the reasons we played so deep. His lack of pace meant his positioning needed to be 5-10 yards off any striker, especially as he was also easily bullied off the ball so couldn’t get tight. Coady did have a superb passing range when he was afforded the space to ping huge diagonals, but didn’t cope so well under pressure.

I’d go with Boly, Dawson, Saiss, but there isn’t much in it between Boly and Max as Boly was awesome: so strong, reasonably quick and great in the air. However, the way he comes out with the ball, usually finds feet with his passing, Max is a much better footballer imo. If I needed more pace, having Toti as an option would be perfect in place of Saiss.

You could really make an argument for all of them depending on what you need based on your opposition. Clearly though we have had some super defenders in the premier league, as proven by the fact this is even a discussion point.

 

[Minimalist]

At his best I think Boly was the pick of the lot. However I don’t think he ever looked comfortable on the right side.. so:
Bennet-Coady-Boly (Saiss in midfield!)
Or
Killman-Dawson-Toti

Think my mix would be
Killman-Coady-Boly

 

[Loojay]

Think absence had made the heart grow fonder with big willy, he was amazing in the championship, but made a fair few errors in the prem. He couldn't dribble or pass

Kilman Dawson Saiss for me

 

[JohnB]

Big Willy was immense. Coady was our captain. Saiss lies down on the job. Bennett doing a Nuno at Ashton Gate.

Great as they were,we have moved on.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Think absence had made the heart grow fonder with big willy, he was amazing in the championship, but made a fair few errors in the prem. He couldn't dribble or pass

Kilman Dawson Saiss for me

He wasn't the same player after his leg break in training....but the first 18 months or so in the premier league he was awesome....

 

[Stourwolf]

Boly- Dawson-Saiss for me.

Nothing lasts for ever though and Toti and Kilman will develop.

Would agree with that ! Dawson is better than Coady.

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

Interesting question, I instinctively thought the OG back 3 as we were a solid unit then and didn't concede many compared to now, we rarely keep clean sheets these days, but we also didn't score as many as we do now, but is that down to the defence or changes in midfield? Was the OG midfield forced to help out the defence leading to us scoring less? I think there are a lot of permutations as to why things have changed. Your really comparing 2 different teams not just the back 3.

Loved the OG back 3, and I like the current back 3 but think they are still a work in progress and may need a tweak or 2

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

It’s never easy comparing defensive units as so much else has an impact, from tactics to midfield shape to forward threat. I also think people forget the 7/8 home clean sheets the defence of Semedo, Dawson, Kilman and Toti achieved in the 2nd half of last season.

Our current shape is difficult to compare to that of Nuno’s as we didn’t play a 4 under Nuno whereas GON asks Toti to move to left back to free RAN. Saiss never made a good fullback whereas I would even consider Toti as wingback vs Brighton.

The other major factor is the way more teams press from the front. Patricio was never great with his feet and goal kick routine was to boot it over Doherty’s head into touch on the halfway line. I am not sure how good Bennet, Coady and Boly would have been under a high press team. We were never close to Liverpool and Coady in particular could easily be bullied - can’t see him doing the role that Dawson did on Haaland.

The final factor is that at their peak Bennet, Saiss, Coady and Boly had Jota, Traore and Jimenez up front who, at their peak scared teams and meant they were very wary of our counter and therefore sat a bit deeper. It also meant we had an out ball over the top which the front three could make into a good ball with their pace. When we lost those three the cracks appeared and the back 3 didn’t look as good. Conversely our forwards are now starting to pose a threat which may release pressure on the back 3/4/5.

 

[Timberwolf]

‘Orses for courses. Both defences were great for what we were/are at the time. A prime Boly though, was bordering on World Class. Best of the lads listed.

 

[Timberrrr]

Body coady saiss all day long
Coady didn't have to do a lot with prime body.absolute monster

 

[Timberrrr]

Boly!!!!

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Boly!!!!

Well maybe Freud was on to something......

 

[KBWWFC]

I'd go: Dawson, Coady, Saiss...

Snails outpace that defence.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

In the prime

Bennett Coady Dawson

Slow but no nonsense

 

[WalsallWolf]

Boly 2017-2020 was IMO our best defender modern day. Even better than Lescott. For that reason, any defence that has him in has to be the one.

 

[Kennedy]

Just had this debate in the pub with a couple of wolves fans ( a rare thing as I live in Gloucestershire)

I'm undecided.. Boly was an absolute Rolls Royce defender for a brief period. Coady was a leader ( a little overrated in my opinion) This period was glorious!

But.. I think Dawson brings a lot of experience and I personally rate Max!

One thing is for sure none of them i'd want in a back 4 and thank god we ain't seeing the Kilman / Collins partnership under Lage anymore.

Who would you take?

Great debate and an obvious answer.

The Nuno back three / five whatever won the champ, got 7th twice, Eufa QF, FA SF.

I like our defence now though and think it can improve as we hopefully grow...

 

[Kingswood Wolf]

Boly is, was, and always will be seemingly hugely underrated. He was ****ing amazing for 3 years. Up there with Lescott, Curle and Richards for me.

Also, re. one of OP's points, Lopetegui did get this team playing with a back 4, he did it really quickly and reasonably well imo. Albeit at the cost of some attacking verve. I'm not sure we've had a coach in the Fosun era who managed that.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Boly was the best of the lot by some distance at his peak, so gives that side the win IMO.

The other two spots you could genuinely make a case for most of the players. Dawson a better defender than Coady, but he was a better passer. Kilman probably a better defender than Saiss, but he was a better leader and scored goals.

 

[Sketchead]

Blimey. Talk about recency bias because we’ve had a good few weeks.

Bennett/Saiss, Coady, Boly every day of the week, you know, the ones that got us into Europe playing a game plan that revolved all around them first and foremost!

 

[Tring Wolf]

Before he broke his leg and pre-covid, Boly was fantastic.

Not much between a lot of others. Coady’s distribution out to Doherty was a huge part of the way we played whilst Dawson is a better all round defender. If Doherty was playing wing-back, I’d probably pick Coady. If Semedo was, I’d probably go Dawson.

Not much to choose between Saiss and Kilman either. I loved Saiss’s attitude and aggression (the one thing Max lacks a little) but Kilman is quicker and better at carrying the ball into midfield.

Boly was better on the left of a three and Kilman was better on the right. Saiss never looked as comfortable on the right side so if pushed, I’d probably go:

Kilman, Coady, Boly

Would be interesting to do a best side of the Fosun era (but maybe that’s one for another thread).

Think I’d go:

Patricio
Kilman, Coady, Boly
Doherty, Lemina, Neves, Moutinho, RAN
Jota, Jimenez

Sa, Jonny, Semedo, Dawson, Saiss, Nunes, Neto, Adama, Cunha

Manager: Nuno

 

[North West Wanderer]

Current 3 are better as a unit purely because coady made us play so deep due to his limitations.

Also toti has the pace to get us out of a lot of situations.

The best 3 would be

Boly Dawson Toti

We also played deeper due to our counter attacking style.
Coady was perfect for that system as a result.

 

[Mark Rankines Lovechild]

Peak Boly, for me was Championship then the first season - after that, not so much. Coady was a great leader, Saiss improves as time passes and memory fades, definitely had goals in him, committed but he also had a fair few rickets in his game at times and i remember he was noted on here as a weak link / replaceable.

For me there isn't much in it but the current, younger crew have greater potential.

 

[Burford T Justice]

In the prime

Bennett Coady Dawson

Slow but no nonsense

Weird take following on from Moulden and Scholes 2.0 imo

Boly was absolutely head and shoulders above Bennett and Cody.

Saiss was also levels above Bennett and probably better than Coady also

 

[Jefe]

Blimey. Talk about recency bias because we’ve had a good few weeks.

Bennett/Saiss, Coady, Boly every day of the week, you know, the ones that got us into Europe playing a game plan that revolved all around them first and foremost!

Yes, short memories. Though I am sympathetic to the argument that because we tend to be more open now and less risk-averse that it's difficult to compare the two defences; we don't know how Bennett, Coady or Saiss would get on under our current ethos. Safe to say though that prime Boly walks in with his eyes closed; he's one of Wolves' very best centre backs in the past 50 years.

 

[WalsallWolf]

Boly walks in with his eyes closed; he's one of Wolves' very best centre backs in the past 50 years.

I agree with this.

Think some seem to think he was just a one or two season wonder too. Although a few niggles creeped in during 2019/2020, he was absolutely class personified when called on.

And in fairness after those injuries and at 32/33 (?) he is still a regular for a PL side now.

 

[wolvesaywe]

Blimey. Talk about recency bias because we’ve had a good few weeks.

Bennett/Saiss, Coady, Boly every day of the week, you know, the ones that got us into Europe playing a game plan that revolved all around them first and foremost!

But then it can be argued that back 3 were far more protected by Nuno's low block

We might concede more goals and chances now but we also score a bloody lot more. In recent weeks especially

For my money there's not a whole lot between all 6. All of them are/were solid midtable Premier League CDs

 

[Timberrrr]

Imagine lescotte Richards and body......wow

 

[Contrarian]

But then it can be argued that back 3 were far more protected by Nuno's low block

We might concede more goals and chances now but we also score a bloody lot more. In recent weeks especially

For my money there's not a whole lot between all 6. All of them are/were solid midtable Premier League CDs

Factor in the wing backs, too. Doc and Jonny at their peaks worked the system briliantly and provided support in their own way. Not much got past Jonny and while Doc wasn't so good defensively, did a decent enough job, especially in the air where he was (and still is) miles better than Semedo.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Weird take following on from Moulden and Scholes 2.0 imo

Boly was absolutely head and shoulders above Bennett and Cody.

Saiss was also levels above Bennett and probably better than Coady also

When did Saiss or Boly ever made a last ditch tackle like that on Willian? As centre half you want someone head and kick it. Boly was good for 3 seasons he’s hardly pulling up any trees in Nottingham. Covid unfortunately put him back. Saiss was good I preferred him as DM. But CB was not his natural position. He played well there and played LB for Morocco. Slightly more creative but defensively you want to stop goals.

Moulden and Cundle have high potential. Laugh all you want unless we give them a chance people will wonder why we sold them 2/3 years down the line. Jose Sa makes a mistake every 2 games not really take much to improve him. Cundle unfortunately plays a position we are well stocked in. Pointless buying other home grown players if we won’t give our own a chance.

Coady a leader - replaced by Dawson
Bennett no nonsense we miss that. What Kilman lacks the hard man to make him elite level.

Kilman is overrated we should sell him and buy better.


For me you don’t see players put body on the line like Bennett or Coady did. They always gave 100% there was times where Saiss and Boly didn’t towards the end and for me that’s why I didn’t choose them.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I was at the game against Boro when Boly made his debut, but the first time I really remember him was at Derby, when two attackers closed him down and he flicked the ball in the air skipped between them, looked up and picked out a pass with them still wondering where the ball had gone. There was a collective gasp in the away end. Absolute class.