Macquarie Bank

[Bill McCai]

Looking at Companies House it would seem
Wolves have done a couple of deals with them for advance funding based on the PL payments?

 

[clivewolves]

I've heard about this recently on one the Tifo YouTube videos.

 

[Bill McCai]

I think they did the same last season with Barclays, it’s presumably just to ensure we have ready access to the cash we are due, when we want it.

 

[Pagey]

Didnt the Dr at villa use them to recieve future transfer fees early, and pay the milkman.

Dunno how much we've borrowed, but could it be the Costa income?

 

[glorybox]

Bloody hell! I thought the Jocks had invaded Quarry Bonk then!

 

[Monketron]

OK maybe someone would know better than I. But wouldn't it be better if Wolves borrowed the money off Fosun or Gao directly, interest-free (or at a far lower interest rate), rather than lose the 7% or whatever it will cost to outsource the borrowing? It's off guaranteed payments so there's essentially no risk involved, right?

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

OK maybe someone would know better than I. But wouldn't it be better if Wolves borrowed the money off Fosun or Gao directly, interest-free (or at a far lower interest rate), rather than lose the 7% or whatever it will cost to outsource the borrowing? It's off guaranteed payments so there's essentially no risk involved, right?

There has to be a reason and those money men know the reason. If we knew the reason we would all be making money out of money.

 

[Pagey]

OK maybe someone would know better than I. But wouldn't it be better if Wolves borrowed the money off Fosun or Gao directly, interest-free (or at a far lower interest rate), rather than lose the 7% or whatever it will cost to outsource the borrowing? It's off guaranteed payments so there's essentially no risk involved, right?

Tax?

 

[Neves wolf]

OK maybe someone would know better than I. But wouldn't it be better if Wolves borrowed the money off Fosun or Gao directly, interest-free (or at a far lower interest rate), rather than lose the 7% or whatever it will cost to outsource the borrowing? It's off guaranteed payments so there's essentially no risk involved, right?

Isn’t it something to do with ffp. Isn’t the owner only allowed to invest something like 35 million into the club over a 3 year period?

 

[cookey]

I must admit I didn't know transfers attracted a 20% VAT payment to the Government - thats a fifth of every transfer going out of the game & we moan about agents fees!

 

[Deleted member 4456]

All sorts of businesses use factoring as a means of securing money from invoices. The bank then takes on the responsibility for chasing that money from the other party. For a relatively small interest payment, it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Pagey]

I must admit I didn't know transfers attracted a 20% VAT payment to the Government - thats a fifth of every transfer going out of the game & we moan about agents fees!

100% in china

 

[freezin]

OK maybe someone would know better than I. But wouldn't it be better if Wolves borrowed the money off Fosun or Gao directly, interest-free (or at a far lower interest rate), rather than lose the 7% or whatever it will cost to outsource the borrowing? It's off guaranteed payments so there's essentially no risk involved, right?

I'm not quite sure of the regulation in this particular type of case, however I've had exposure to similar situations where any loan has to be near market rate to avoid anti-competitive legislation.

 

[Peszkywolf]

I must admit I didn't know transfers attracted a 20% VAT payment to the Government - thats a fifth of every transfer going out of the game & we moan about agents fees!

Good, our government making money off football clubs and BT and Sky. That Pepe deal probably paid for 5 nurses and a couple of teachers

 

[Ivegotawolvesscarf]

This was actually a big component of the football leaks scandal last year.

Buying Time: The Scramble for Fresh Capital in Professional Football - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International

There are enough transfers of a decent size in European football along with guaranteed TV license payments that its become a massive attractor surface for moneylenders who aren't afraid to take a risk on leveraged football clubs who need to cover their liquidity needs with short term loans.

Some of the deals in that article look insane.

 

[Deleted member 9788]

Bloody hell! I thought the Jocks had invaded Quarry Bonk then!

At first glance I thought that due to man u not working our for him, harry macguire had branched out into loans

 

[Mr Chad]

I must admit I didn't know transfers attracted a 20% VAT payment to the Government - thats a fifth of every transfer going out of the game & we moan about agents fees!

Not necessarily. The selling club will pay the VAT over to HMRC but the buying club will claim it back. So usually it ends up neutral.

 

[AndyWolves]

Borrowing against future PL payments doesn't sit well with me at all.

Suggests we aren't as liquid as we could be

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

Maybe the club are looking to pay someone’s buy out clause in the next window?

In Spain, and presumably Portugal too given it’s a similar system, you have to deposit the full amount up front in cash with their FA.

Such a transfer would require us to have a large surplus of cash in the bank and why Dias probably wasn’t as simple as pay the release fee.

 

[Pagey]

Maybe the club are looking to pay someone’s buy out clause in the next window?

In Spain, and presumably Portugal too given it’s a similar system, you have to deposit the full amount up front in cash with their FA.

Such a transfer would require us to have a large surplus of cash in the bank and why Dias probably wasn’t as simple as pay the release fee.

Probably to early for January window, why pay 2 months interest?

 

[Pagey]

Maybe we have spent out. Maybe Fosun have put in as much as they're allowed and we just want some capital in the bank for day to day business?

 

[oldgoldheart]

OK maybe someone would know better than I. But wouldn't it be better if Wolves borrowed the money off Fosun or Gao directly, interest-free (or at a far lower interest rate), rather than lose the 7% or whatever it will cost to outsource the borrowing? It's off guaranteed payments so there's essentially no risk involved, right?

Im not convinced fosun has that much cash. This is common practice to finance in this way. Wolves is almost certain to be funded by borrowed money

 

[oldgoldheart]

Tax?

No its cashflow. They would have done it to fund transfers

 

[oldgoldheart]

Maybe the club are looking to pay someone’s buy out clause in the next window?

In Spain, and presumably Portugal too given it’s a similar system, you have to deposit the full amount up front in cash with their FA.

Such a transfer would require us to have a large surplus of cash in the bank and why Dias probably wasn’t as simple as pay the release fee.

It is likely to be raul or cutrone. Wolves dont generate enough to pay these transfers without sky money.

 

[oldgoldheart]

This was actually a big component of the football leaks scandal last year.

Buying Time: The Scramble for Fresh Capital in Professional Football - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International

There are enough transfers of a decent size in European football along with guaranteed TV license payments that its become a massive attractor surface for moneylenders who aren't afraid to take a risk on leveraged football clubs who need to cover their liquidity needs with short term loans.

Some of the deals in that article look insane.

The company i run did a few deals about 6 years ago. I stopped it because of the risk concentration. Aldermore do a lot. Sky is seen as a banker incone stream. If that ever dried up or one went wrong the whole thing would unravel

 

[Pagey]

Im not convinced fosun has that much cash. This is common practice to finance in this way. Wolves is almost certain to be funded by borrowed money

I read somewhere the majority of Fosuns assets are purchased by borrowed cash.

 

[WW1963]

Maybe the club are looking to pay someone’s buy out clause in the next window?

In Spain, and presumably Portugal too given it’s a similar system, you have to deposit the full amount up front in cash with their FA.

Such a transfer would require us to have a large surplus of cash in the bank and why Dias probably wasn’t as simple as pay the release fee.

Talisca?

 

[AndyWolves]

Reading the charge Macquarie have taken out it seems to cover PL money from sept 2019 to sept 2020

That's a lot of money, I wonder why the club need access to it now?

 

[Bill McCai]

EXCLUSIVE: Wolves take out £50m loan secured against TV revenue

 

[Glow69]

Seems most clubs do it.

 

[Bill McCai]

We did the same last season, with Barclays.

 

[Mighty Thor]

The optimal capital structure is 100 per cent debt. Obv no business should do that but you get a tax shield from being levered. Basically if you don’t pay out in interest you will pay out in tax so it’s good financial management.

 

[wolveslegend]

The report says it's for general running of the club. seems fosun arent as willing to spend their own group cash to prop up wolves. we are a business to them, they want to make money with as little outlay from their own pockets as possible, WWFC is funding itself with that loan fosun arent paying a penny towards it. we are a business to them, thomas cook was a business to them .

 

[WalsallWolf]

Brilliant exclusive as ever.

 

[WasStefan]

Congrats on the exclusives Bill

 

[Bill McCai]

Wolves did this last year with Barclays. Its obviously part of our financial planning for cashflow purposes.

 

[Peszkywolf]

Pay tax or interest?? I really don't understand that?!!

 

[hollo]

Hi all.
Do you think Robbie Swarbrick Express and Star, and Birmingham Live picked up the information from Bill?
Birmingham live is something I barely step foot in with its sensationalist headlines. Clickbait.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

So, as a non money expert. Should we be concerned by this?

I’m getting mixed messages.

 

[Bill McCai]

Nope, we did it last season with Barclays.

Other clubs routinely do it.

Man City look to splash the cash in transfer market after taking out multi-million payday-style loan from Barclays